So about the Nightwave Daily

[Althaline]

DE, I believe we've had this discussion before. I don't care how cheap a Spectre is, we the community have generally agreed that a Nightwave challenge that requires you to consume a consumable is NOT OK. We did this already, multiple times. Why do we need to go through this again?

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Skip it. 1000 standing isn't worth getting worked up for. 

[MagPrime]

It's a very low amount of standing, easy to miss.

But, it does encourage players who don't muck with them to try it out just to see.  From what I've gathered, that part of the point behind a lot of the challenges; pushing players to try or revisit mechanics.  And from a personal stand point, it works well.  I've been jumping in and out of content I hadn't touched for a couple years and it's given me more things to do.  

So while yeah, it's annoying, they did give you the option to safely ignore it.

[ManoloAchede]

What? Why? Why is that a problem?

And, if you dont want to waste 15k credits... just don't do it.

[JeranTek]

Except there's also a "Consume a Forma" this week as well for 4500 standing.

[Marine027]

Well, you can use the free ones still from the Syndicat really also. No build time, any spectre counts. Or Clem aswell.

[MagPrime]

22 minutes ago, JeranTek said:

Except there's also a "Consume a Forma" this week as well for 4500 standing.

There was also a Transmutation challenge.

[Hobie-wan]

Oh noez! Game stuff that wants you to do game stuff, but you can skip some of it and still get the overall thing done!

[Leuca]

"We the community" what now?

A challenge that costs a few thousand credits to basically complete instantly is the one that bothers you?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

You mean use just one one the many hundreds of specters I have? Yeah that's really hurting me.

[Althaline]

1 hour ago, Leuca said:

"We the community" what now?

Yeah, I knew somebody would be on my case about that one. You're 2 hours later than I expected, well done. Proud of you.

[Tiltskillet]

I don't know about yalls' communities, but we the Tiltskillet community had no problem with this.

[Avienas]

4 hours ago, --Raid-Master-Qued said:

What? Why? Why is that a problem?

And, if you dont want to waste 15k credits... just don't do it.

Honestly i would say MY problem is more on these acting as FIIIIIINE reminders on d.e. leaving horribly outdated mechanics in the game that could of atleast had some updated design to make them decently worthwhile.

1. Why not allow us to use multiple charges to maybe JACK-UP, the level of the specters so they are above lvl 100 so just MAYBE, they can actually do some sub-par dps. Anyway just half-kidding on that, honestly we all know that only 2 specters are worth a damn and its the ancient one which is easy to acquire and the more restricted to a ducat sink despite being way more useless then the ancient, the corrupted unit from baro that comes with a shield applying unit. Aka specters themselves need a redesign on a chunky mechanical scale, to be worth getting a small short frame freeze when thinking it might be a good idea to bring out a rather useless A.I. that you cant give specific commands to keep a certain ability up or what not(which would be GREAT for trinity/limbo/frost specters on some ends), OR just straight up let us have some option toggle to decide how crazy will it be spamming abilities/debuffs and toggle off what abilities/weapons said specter will primarily use and likely ignore using the other ones.
2. You can just call me a massive nitpick on these elements but would it NOT be nice if we could do multiple transmute at a time? Such as maybe cram 100 mods into the select pick and get 25 transmuted mods out at once? Maybe have some more proper weight we can control based on what category of mods we use, if the remods we melt are weapon specific or atleast if we melt 4 primaries, we know its 100% going to be a primary if that is not already a thing. Maybe have the same apply to mod rarity if it again does not apply. VERY sure many likely do not pay much attention or even remember the system exists except when nightwave reminds us of a EZ NW standing lever exists.

For the TL;DR: D.E. got maaaaany things they need to update and being reminded they exist for a standing to get daily/weekly challenge just helps to rub the annoyance they still exist in the game and have been left alone without any QoL done to them.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Avienas

[Steel_Rook]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Skip it. 1000 standing isn't worth getting worked up for. 

Not the point. Challenges like "Deploy a Spectre," "Apply a Forma" and "Socket an Ayatan Sculptire" are not real tasks. They're "inventory challenges." They ask whether you have a specific item in your inventory. If you do, you pass. There's no challenge there. It's a gear check boiled down to its most basic form. We might as well have a "Click button to donate 100K Credits" challenge or "Click button to donate Forma" challenge. The Division 2 used to have dailies like that, and even that game got rid of them in favour of actual activities.

It just further cheapens Nightwave by letting people essentially buy their way through the challenges.

[Marine027]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Steel_Rook:

Click button to donate 100K Credits

Well....

Am 12.5.2020 um 16:37 schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Patron: Donate to the Leverian

[Steel_Rook]

Oh... Right, I forgot about that. And here I thought I was joking.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

23 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Not the point.

That is the point. The challenges are grabbing all aspects of the game. YOU may not deploy specters, or have a need to use forma currently, but others do. 

Skip it if you don't like it. 

[Reifnir]

31 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

We might as well have a "Click button to donate 100K Credits" challenge

Now I feel bad that challenges cannot be backdated, because back when Leverian first released I donated 10 mil+1  credits just to see if he would react differently than to 1 mil credits. (hint: It didn't). 

Even so, I don't think challenges that require you to use consumables are good design. The only challenge I actually liked was "< 90sec Capture", the rest are for the most part, "go do something you no longer need or gain anything from" :/

Edited May 18, 2020 by Reifnir

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

There's so many ways to get specters, that this is literally no ones problem. Rescue give bps, death squads give bps, syndicate gives bps, you have a blueprint to do this

[Educated_Beast]

6 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Not the point. Challenges like "Deploy a Spectre," "Apply a Forma" and "Socket an Ayatan Sculptire" are not real tasks. They're "inventory challenges." They ask whether you have a specific item in your inventory. If you do, you pass. There's no challenge there. It's a gear check boiled down to its most basic form. We might as well have a "Click button to donate 100K Credits" challenge or "Click button to donate Forma" challenge. The Division 2 used to have dailies like that, and even that game got rid of them in favour of actual activities.

It just further cheapens Nightwave by letting people essentially buy their way through the challenges.

I like all of those challenges, fast and easy to complete.  Who isn't using at least 1 forma a week anyway?  Specters are actually useful in exploiter match when playing solo to keep cooling spiders busy, so I just killed two in one match (or even use on the 20 wave defense).  Forma a weapon and level it as well.  I get what you are saying, but disagree with that philosophy.  I didn't even mind the build a kit gun "challenges", parts are cheap and it was a resource farm thing / passive level up.  

The ones I hate are 10 bounties, 10 invasions, and capture 6 animals perfectly (perfectly is the key word here).  I hate these time consuming "challenges" with a passion (I do not need anything that drops there).  While not perfect, I'll burn some resources any day over those challenges.  At least these allow me to spend time doing fun things.  

I do not understand the problem.

[Els236]

Il y a 12 heures, Steel_Rook a dit :

Not the point. Challenges like "Deploy a Spectre," "Apply a Forma" and "Socket an Ayatan Sculptire" are not real tasks. They're "inventory challenges." They ask whether you have a specific item in your inventory. If you do, you pass. There's no challenge there. It's a gear check boiled down to its most basic form. We might as well have a "Click button to donate 100K Credits" challenge or "Click button to donate Forma" challenge. The Division 2 used to have dailies like that, and even that game got rid of them in favour of actual activities.

It just further cheapens Nightwave by letting people essentially buy their way through the challenges.

 

Right, I do understand your point, but have you looked at it from a different perspective?

Us "Veterans" have everything, so these "challenges" are very much a click of a button. BUT, what about a newbie?

"Apply a Forma?" -  Oh well, now I'm going to farm some relics to get a Forma blueprint!

"Deploy a Spectre?" - Oh, well now I'm going to get some Syndicate standing and farm up some resources to do it! Or, I could do some rescue missions and get the blueprint from there!

"Socket an Ayatan Sculpture?" - Oh, i don't have any of those, I might need to go and pay Maroo a visit!

 

And just like that, newer players, which, let's face it, these challenges are aimed at, are going to do things they wouldn't normally think of doing, or are not usually part of someone's daily play-session.

[PhiThagRaid]

16 hours ago, Reifnir said:

Now I feel bad that challenges cannot be backdated, because back when Leverian first released I donated 10 mil+1  credits just to see if he would react differently than to 1 mil credits. (hint: It didn't).

I too donated a lot to the Leverian just to see his reaction, but there are different lines. When you give a low amount he will be disappointed, whereas when you donate a larger amount he will be shocked and amazed at your contribution.

[Marine027]

Am 19.5.2020 um 03:52 schrieb Els236:

 

Right, I do understand your point, but have you looked at it from a different perspective?

Us "Veterans" have everything, so these "challenges" are very much a click of a button. BUT, what about a newbie?

"Apply a Forma?" -  Oh well, now I'm going to farm some relics to get a Forma blueprint!

"Deploy a Spectre?" - Oh, well now I'm going to get some Syndicate standing and farm up some resources to do it! Or, I could do some rescue missions and get the blueprint from there!

"Socket an Ayatan Sculpture?" - Oh, i don't have any of those, I might need to go and pay Maroo a visit!

 

And just like that, newer players, which, let's face it, these challenges are aimed at, are going to do things they wouldn't normally think of doing, or are not usually part of someone's daily play-session.

And this is the biggest problem with Nightwave, newbies won't be able to do most of the challanges due timegated at worse or locked behind some grind or standing.

Alerts were flawed heavy but i still not see why this could not exist along it, now newbies have it even harder in my eyes desptie Nightwave supposed to be player friendly which is a big lie, the store on itself, how should a new player know what they need?

Nitain? Most used but only avilable from Nightwave, new players not know this.

Kuva? Sure, onyl for them to realize later they wasted credits for something you can farm on several spots by now.

Auras? Something they might need due, well new and not have those mods yet.

They are froced to make choices only to regret it later.

Nightwave is the biggest failure in Warframe of all those updates in my eyes. It should not work how it does, it should be a plain and simple syndicat, while limited items should be events or farmable from unique missions, Alerts as said were flawed but could had existed alongside it to balance things out as a RNG factor, they could had simply adjusted it and made them more frequent to appear, instead of 4 times a day for Nitain randomly as example it should had been 12 times a day with the RNG timer to spawn them or make them a specific time they always appear.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Marine027

[Els236]

il y a 45 minutes, Marine027 a dit :

And this is the biggest problem with Nightwave, newbies won't be able to do most of the challanges due timegated at worse or locked behind some grind or standing.

Alerts were flawed heavy but i still not see why this could not exist along it, now newbies have it even harder in my eyes desptie Nightwave supposed to be player friendly which is a big lie, the store on itself, how should a new player know what they need?

Nitain? Most used but only avilable from Nightwave, new palyers not know this.

Kuva? Sure, onyl for them to realize later they waster creds for something oyu can farm on several spots by now.

Auras? Something they might need due, well new and not have thsoe mods yet.

They are froced to make choices only to might regret it later.

Nightwave is the biggest failure in Warframe of all those updates in my eyes. It should not work how it does, it should be a plain and simple syndicat, while limited items should be events or farmable from unique missions, Alerts as said were flawed but could had existed alongside it to balance things out as a RNG factor, they could had simply adjusted it and made them more frequent to appear, instead of 4 times a day randomyl it should had been 12 times a day with the RNG timer to spawn thme or make them a specific time they always appear.

 

I have a lot of thoughts on what you wrote, so please bear with me on this:

 

1 - Alerts were pretty garbage. If you weren't awake, or weren't online at a certain time of day and you missed it, then screw you, wait another X amount of time till that Alert pops up again. It probably took me over a year to obtain most of the Aura mods back then with the Alerts system, whereas now, I do 2 levels of Nightwave, get some credits and I could buy the 3 on offer, then wait until next week's shop rotation and buy 3 more. 

At MR25/26 I still did not have the Heat Dagger, Dark Sword or the Dark Dagger, due to me never being online during those Alerts. How did I get them? Nightwave shop within the last 2 years. Yes, it took me almost 6 years to get those BPs, until Nightwave became a thing.

 

2 - DE never explains ANYTHING to new players and this is not an issue solely related to Nightwave, but the whole darn game. If new players knew what Kuva or Nitain were, then they wouldn't waste their Nightwave credits on other garbage, like the alternate helmet cosmetics, they would dump all of their Nightwave credits into Nitain.

 

[[ This next one might seem like I'm arguing with you and being rude - I'm not, I'm trying to explain a thought process and show what the issues are. ]]

3 - I completely understand and was almost about to agree that Nightwave should be a Syndicate, much like Cephalon Simaris is. No ranks, just a flat 132,000 standing that you can farm up. HOWEVER, what would be the way to get standing for it? Whack on a Sigil and farm it out in 10 minutes on Hydron or E.S.O, like us "Veterans" do for Suda/Arbiters, etc? Well, then it would have to have a limit of standing per day right? And that standing amount would be linked to MR rank like the current syndicates, surely? Well, then that screws over newbies again, doesn't it, because I could farm 28K per day and max it out in around a week, whereas a newbie would take multiple weeks with their 5-10K per day. Ok, then we'll make Nitain only cost 1-5K, so that newbies can afford that after a day or so. Oh... now us "Veterans" are sat on more Nitain than we will ever need and have Kuva pouring out of our eyeballs, making Kuva Survivals and such completely obsolete. Right, so we'll make Alternate Helmet Cosmetics cost 100K, like Captura Scenes do from Suda/Arbiters - again, newbies get screwed over because it would take me a month to get "all" of the helmets, whereas it would take them a year to get them.

 

So, that way doesn't work AT ALL. How about a daily mission, so it's more in line with Cephalon Simaris? Well, now everyone is either maxed out in a day, or it takes everyone a month to max out and either everyone has everything in a week, or no one has anything after a fortnight. 

 

As much as I wanted to love your idea, there is no way in hell that DE could ever make it work, at least not with their track-record on this sort-of thing.

Also, bare in mind that DE want people to change-up their daily play-session and do something different. Who even bothers doing Exploiter Orb (as an example) anymore? If you have Hildryn and the 2 Ephemeras, there's literally no reason to - well, now there is! The act of doing Exploiter Orb itself might not yield anything, but you'll get "standing" and maybe unlock a new cosmetic, or some slots, or some Nitain/Kuva/Mods/etc because of it.

 

Now, the "what about the newbies?" comes up again. Honestly, I think DE have done what they could here. Dailies and most of the weeklies are easily completable for any player and the elite weeklies are reserved for the "elite" or the "veterans". If you have everything easily completable by everyone, then the "Veterans" will complain that there is no challenge for them and that they are being "forgotten" (trust me, it would happen). If you have everything geared-towards the "Veterans", then the newbies get screwed-over in the same way. 

Also, this may not be true for every single Nightwave weekly rotation, but for this week at least, there is nothing a newbie could not complete: 

 

I did my 20 waves of defense with MR4 players on Earth. = Elite Weekly

Exploiter Orb can only be started by someone with Thermia, but a low-level newbie could still join the party and contribute to get the standing = Elite Weekly

6 perfect animal captures on O.V.: 3 different sub-species of Pobber, which all count as a "different animal capture", for a total of 3 and also Male/Female Pobbers count as "different animal captures", for a total of 6 perfect animal captures = 4.5K Weekly.

 

Now, before this ends up being published as a novel, I'll say this in conclusion: This is a looter-shooter game with progression. Veterans will nearly always steam-roll any content, whereas newbies might struggle. Unfortunately, without a serious upheaval of game mechanics, this will always be the case. I still think DE is making this Nightwave as fair as possible for all players.

 

P.S: Thanks for reading! (If you did 😛 )

Edited May 19, 2020 by Els236

[Marine027]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Els236:

1 - Alerts were pretty garbage. If you weren't awake, or weren't online at a certain time of day and you missed it, then screw you, wait another X amount of time till that Alert pops up again. It probably took me over a year to obtain most of the Aura mods back then with the Alerts system, whereas now, I do 2 levels of Nightwave, get some credits and I could buy the 3 on offer, then wait until next week's shop rotation and buy 3 more. 

At MR25/26 I still did not have the Heat Dagger, Dark Sword or the Dark Dagger, due to me never being online during those Alerts. How did I get them? Nightwave shop within the last 2 years. Yes, it took me almost 6 years to get those BPs, until Nightwave became a thing.

 

2 - DE never explains ANYTHING to new players and this is not an issue solely related to Nightwave, but the whole darn game. If new players knew what Kuva or Nitain were, then they wouldn't waste their Nightwave credits on other garbage, like the alternate helmet cosmetics, they would dump all of their Nightwave credits into Nitain.

 

[[ This next one might seem like I'm arguing with you and being rude - I'm not, I'm trying to explain a thought process and show what the issues are. ]]

3 - I completely understand and was almost about to agree that Nightwave should be a Syndicate, much like Cephalon Simaris is. No ranks, just a flat 132,000 standing that you can farm up. HOWEVER, what would be the way to get standing for it? Whack on a Sigil and farm it out in 10 minutes on Hydron or E.S.O, like us "Veterans" do for Suda/Arbiters, etc? Well, then it would have to have a limit of standing per day right? And that standing amount would be linked to MR rank like the current syndicates, surely? Well, then that screws over newbies again, doesn't it, because I could farm 28K per day and max it out in around a week, whereas a newbie would take multiple weeks with their 5-10K per day. Ok, then we'll make Nitain only cost 1-5K, so that newbies can afford that after a day or so. Oh... now us "Veterans" are sat on more Nitain than we will ever need and have Kuva pouring out of our eyeballs, making Kuva Survivals and such completely obsolete. Right, so we'll make Alternate Helmet Cosmetics cost 100K, like Captura Scenes do from Suda/Arbiters - again, newbies get screwed over because it would take me a month to get "all" of the helmets, whereas it would take them a year to get them.

1. Why i said they should had tweaked it, increase the spawns and also alongside Nightwave.

2. Somethign they need to finally push here, Codex and Simaris exist for a reason for not just tutorials but lore aswell, instead like with content we even get lore as content Island seen with Leviran being disconnted once again instead of inserting it into Simaris or the Codex fully, and no not just as button to get to it. Leviran is another gripe i have perosnaly due it is the old problem of "show, don't tell", i want visuals in my game, if i want to read text or hear it i buy a book or audiobook.

3. I say keep Nightwave how it is but not limited simply, challanges each week for points but without the fear of missing out, no RNG on the store simply not it switching each week, just plain simple offer all that the alerts had before, while exclusive stuff can stay limited due ranks and rather as ranks make them like milestones like the login reward, this way people want to catch up and can catch up without problems, while the story and lore parts should be unlocked as milestone reward as quests you can activate.