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(PS4)LeBlingKing

Have DE designed themselves into a corner?

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It certainly is a mess at the moment. They've been juggling far too much without taking a step back and really measuring the pros & cons of these big decisions. It can honestly get stale when the loop relies on layers of busywork & an overabundance of repetition. They've really strayed from the premise of space ninjas. We're more akin to farmers. Farmers with starfighters, various weapons that go against the laws established by the Geneva Convention & literal walking bio-weapons. Long gone is the subtle approach of stealthy infiltration & execution, dakka dakka & tactical nukes are just an everyday occurrence.

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19 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

Personally I started losing interest around when we went from keys to relics. I know getting to pick your loot is nice but nowadays people dont push their limits when doing most missions. It's a lot of go to 5 minutes/waves then leave and go again so enemies stay under level 10... 

And then we took away trials, which I didnt start getting into until like a year before they went away. And it was good. I miss the 8 man squads and the puzzles in which you actually WORK AS A TEAM and not a 1 man army. I mean this is what I feel has really been lost which is the if I bring this itll help you not die or if I bring this you wont worry about this. Now it's just Ill bring this and if I die cause Im a glass cannon and if you dont get me up when I die in the first 5 minutes Ima be mad *frustrated grunt*. We need to bring back the gameplay that gave reason to bring specific frames to make it so the team can succeed instead of being a team of Leeroy Jenkins.

 

Yep this..

 

15 hours ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

I thought being a space ninja was all about killing everything in sight?

and this.. 

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When I play Remnant from The Ashes (boss fights specifically), Battlefront 2 or WWZ, I often wish Warframe had some of the things those games have. I mostly play Warframe for the cosmetics at this point and really only certain frames, streamlined looks and not busy designs. So I often take massive breaks since pretty stuff doesn't come along often.  With Remnant though I wish boss fights in warframe were like those. With battlefront 2 I like that in the co-op I am not rushed by other players and not trolled by the game itself like running into confusing design choices like I do in WF (specifically teralyst and orb nonsense). In battlefront 2 the combat is so addicting and the melee is more fun too. I like how the co-op missions progress in either pushing forward, holding or being pushed back and it's not just kill x amount of things or farm mechanics, the game is good at making you feel powerful . I hate farming it feels dated.  In WWZ just how 2 people can play all the content and do well and making quick choices in intense battles with 100s of enemies on screen is memorable. I know all last week I played warframe but I can't remember any highlight moments aside from things I customized in the arsenal. 

 

I still think ME3 multi did powers way better than this game. There was cooldowns and not energy pools which felt more strategic and the abilities were fun, nothing was designed as trash to rank up, everything was mostly good. Playing that game was fun.  In warframe farming as fast as possible to the exit screen so I can get up and walk away from my PC is the reward. Hoping they release actual attractive designs is the other thing I look forward too. Seeing a new gun and hoping it doesn't get nerfed or is weak AF and gets tossed away after hitting 30. 

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Things start out slow and simple and fun in the beginning, then they change with the times, and the people that were used to the old way have a hard time adjusting, sure.

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I think it's really just a very simple answer.

WF is designed to be interactive collectable entertainment.

Some players are looking for mental/hand-eye/reaction-time challenges in entertainment.

The challenge of WF is the collection and building aspect, over other these other things, so the reflex based challenges are easily mastered for a lot of players with full loadouts. After gaining the right mods and weapons and applying the right load outs, nothing I encounter is really challenging, IME, just basic shooter gameplay.

It really is just that simple, IMO.

WF is designed to be interactive entertainment, not something to provide endless challenge to a dynamic thinking, hardcore gamer.

All of us would love for our favorite IPs to provide endless entertainment, that's just not reality.

DE has not designed WF into a corner, they simply created a game that does not appeal to the type of gamer that wants to be endlessly challenged, they created a game that is geared for endless interactive collectable entertainment.

I personally know gamers that admit they literally cannot relax, they don't know how. All they know how to do is find something to throw that endless energy toward in an effort to tire out thier minds to sleep. WF, IMO, is not built for that mindset, it's built more for the gamer that just wants to relax and kill pixels.

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

I think it's really just a very simple answer.

WF is designed to be interactive collectable entertainment.

Some players are looking for mental/hand-eye/reaction-time challenges in entertainment.

The challenge of WF is the collection and building aspect, over other these other things, so the reflex based challenges are easily mastered for a lot of players with full loadouts. After gaining the right mods and weapons and applying the right load outs, nothing I encounter is really challenging, IME, just basic shooter gameplay.

It really is just that simple, IMO.

WF is designed to be interactive entertainment, not something to provide endless challenge to a dynamic thinking, hardcore gamer.

All of us would love for our favorite IPs to provide endless entertainment, that's just not reality.

DE has not designed WF into a corner, they simply created a game that does not appeal to the type of gamer that wants to be endlessly challenged, they created a game that is geared for endless interactive collectable entertainment.

I personally know gamers that admit they literally cannot relax, they don't know how. All they know how to do is find something to throw that endless energy toward in an effort to tire out thier minds to sleep. WF, IMO, is not built for that mindset, it's built more for the gamer that just wants to relax and kill pixels.

No game can really on top, people forget notihng lasts forever or that you can't keep up with all and keep pushing out conent, may it be lore or gameplay aspects that differ to keep you playing.

I liked Warframe as a game i can come bac kot with without loosing or lacking things or missing out much, events and operations are one thing here, but Nightwave destroyed this whole, relaxing type really, it is a psychological trick simply, make you feel to miss out regardless how easy it is or how long it lasts, intentional or not, lookign at intermission 2 here, but since it is a timed, limited thing alone it puts pressure on you, making you play and maybe to a point where it isa chore and a second time job instead of fun simply.

They need ot make money yes but we have Prime Acces and other things for that, Warframe in its core never really changed, but additions like Railjack as fun it can be are way to disconnected again on the other hand with it being its own content island again, this is the part i actualyl dare to say they written themself in several corners, they can't decide what they want to be, a looter shooter? Story game? Space shooter? Tony Hawk K-Drive?

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Honestly I really think DE should just start making another game, Warframe's core gameplay is broken (as all of us know), infinite spamming, billions of damage for enemies that only need like 50, infinite movement speed, thousands of ways to not die, enemies that are really easy, a PvP that doesn't work, Wyrmius still being the hardest content in Warframe.

Warframe's core gameplay isn't engaging, and I feel it becomes worse each year.

 

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On 2020-05-18 at 12:03 AM, Nichivo said:

Fortuna's Orb Vallis had challenge, people whined so it got nerfed. Railjack was supposed to be group oriented, it was pretty well balanced for a solo challenge (needed tougher mobs in the veil), but people whined, and it got nerfed so hard you can't even call it group content.

Arbitrations had challenge then revives were added. I play them solo only so I get the original feel.

Nope!  I am going to disagree on the basis that any content that presents challenge, gets nerfed into the ground because of people whining. Just look at all the moaning about the glassmaker puzzle, and the resource neither of which are difficult, or hard to obtain, or complete, yet people are whining.

To be fair, the Corpus in Fortuna were overtuned for their level.  They WERE hitting and soaking above what their level indicated.  Though personally, I think the biggest offenders were the overseers(?) which had a homing projectile.  One might think the Bombard's is hard to see?  Try finding a pale blue light among a bullet hell of other pale blue lights against white snow.  ...with the potential to one shot frames like Mag by level 30.

Railjack teamwork was supposed to be in the concept of people performing a role (pilot, gunner, maintenance, archwing, boarders, etc.)  Like many things in Warframe, getting the proper avionics fleshed out and things go from chaotic to pretty tame real quick.  After this point, it was really a matter of how much time and ammo did DE really want non-META builds to spend on killing a simple lancer.  There are option restrictive builds that can tank absurd levels of damage and deal it out in kind, then there is a wide variety of builds that can't do either.  The META builds aren't necessarily fun to everyone.  DE is following the money here.  Don't balance around the 3% best items in the game when most people would rather be operating within the 30th percentile.

 

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7 hours ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

Honestly I really think DE should just start making another game, Warframe's core gameplay is broken (as all of us know), infinite spamming, billions of damage for enemies that only need like 50, infinite movement speed, thousands of ways to not die, enemies that are really easy, a PvP that doesn't work, Wyrmius still being the hardest content in Warframe.

Warframe's core gameplay isn't engaging, and I feel it becomes worse each year.

 

The point of the game is to be an op space ninja killing everything thing in your sight. It’s not meant to be an all around challenging game. You say that warframe is broken but for me the game works really well compared to how it use to be.No bugs no bad host migration it’s much better then it use to be. The only annoying thing is the grind but even then at least other players are there to help and communicate with you.

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50 minutes ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

The point of the game is to be an op space ninja killing everything thing in your sight. It’s not meant to be an all around challenging game. You say that warframe is broken but for me the game works really well compared to how it use to be.No bugs no bad host migration it’s much better then it use to be. The only annoying thing is the grind but even then at least other players are there to help and communicate with you.

I think people will call WF "broken" or say it uses "Band-Aids" no matter what. It's just a buzzowrd insult at this point. 

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The only way I can see around this is convert hard mode into Demo enemies from disruptions. Most abilities are just flung away because they are resistant to almost all abilities or adapt within 2-3 seconds.

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8 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

To be fair, the Corpus in Fortuna were overtuned for their level.  They WERE hitting and soaking above what their level indicated.  Though personally, I think the biggest offenders were the overseers(?) which had a homing projectile.  One might think the Bombard's is hard to see?  Try finding a pale blue light among a bullet hell of other pale blue lights against white snow.  ...with the potential to one shot frames like Mag by level 30.

 

They were hardly over tuned I was doing 2-3 hour solo toroid farms before the big nerf.

 

8 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Railjack teamwork was supposed to be in the concept of people performing a role (pilot, gunner, maintenance, archwing, boarders, etc.)  Like many things in Warframe, getting the proper avionics fleshed out and things go from chaotic to pretty tame real quick.  After this point, it was really a matter of how much time and ammo did DE really want non-META builds to spend on killing a simple lancer.  There are option restrictive builds that can tank absurd levels of damage and deal it out in kind, then there is a wide variety of builds that can't do either.  The META builds aren't necessarily fun to everyone.  DE is following the money here.  Don't balance around the 3% best items in the game when most people would rather be operating within the 30th percentile.

 

I tend to not play meta anything, and had no issue soloing all of railjack pre nerf. Please tell me how being able to solo the veil with only one avionic installed is better team balance.

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On 2020-05-20 at 12:11 AM, (NSW)JJA209 said:

The point of the game is to be an op space ninja killing everything thing in your sight. It’s not meant to be an all around challenging game. You say that warframe is broken but for me the game works really well compared to how it use to be.No bugs no bad host migration it’s much better then it use to be. The only annoying thing is the grind but even then at least other players are there to help and communicate with you.

I am not even asking for challenge, not anymore, I am asking for engaging gameplay, current gameplay isn't engaging or fun.

You saying Warframe "No bugs, it's much better than it used to be" makes me think that Railjack release was earased from your mind.

Warframe nowadays it's only grind, and even you (that is defending heavely the game) thinks it's not fun.

A minigame being the hardest thing in a videogame means something is not ok...

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5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think people will call WF "broken" or say it uses "Band-Aids" no matter what. It's just a buzzowrd insult at this point. 

Yeah exactly the game works so much better then it ever did. I have no idea where people are getting all these bugs an issues from cuz I’ve never ever had any problems at all this year.

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В 18.05.2020 в 11:03, Nichivo сказал:

Fortuna's Orb Vallis had challenge, people whined so it got nerfed. Railjack was supposed to be group oriented, it was pretty well balanced for a solo challenge (needed tougher mobs in the veil), but people whined, and it got nerfed so hard you can't even call it group content.

This. I noticed this long time ago. WF community has insane level of double standards. Like on words everyone for challenge and so pro blablabla, suffering from content drought, game is too easy, BUT when it comes to MINIMAL difficulty or chance to fail (god forbid!), may be little bit harshier grind, they just go brutal whining mode, leaving DE no choice to nerf everything.

While some decent hardcore folk around, WF community feels overall as most "weakling" casual bunch I even seen in my gaming years in games played, even children in Minecraft have more guts to face problems.

Game generaly now one big participation trophy for clumsy ninjas who just want to think they cool (while they mostly not).

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb le_souriceau:

WF community has insane level of double standards

No, that is just two groups and two sides of the community, the "community" is not a person you can describe, several vocies and opinions in it, so of course it will clash, it depends on DE which side they listen to mostly here simply.

They themself not want it hard i belvie tho, but numbers telling them it generates players and playtime aka money for them.

Nerfing older things later is normal in MMO's on top, due people somehow need to catch up, you can aruge it gets nerfed to fast but then nothing we have is real endgame, it can almost all be entered from the start. So it is all over the place. Orb Vallis  i said need nerfing, if not it would had needed a lockout for new players and be late game stuff, but something DE not wants, look at Nightwave challanges, they force people to go to such often.

The problem on those kind of enemys is they not make sense, why Railjack also got nerfed, the level on enemys not made sense anymore, whare levle 50 railjack tougher then a sortie levle 120 or so? The enemys are tier levels by now and since Plains they keep releasing new units in different colours on Grineer mostly that differ way to much to waht there level says.

It is simply a mess and DE needs to find a line they can follow again, they want to be everything and have lost focus, this hurts the game with everything, it becoems ot much to balance simply, introducing new game mechanics that differe way from normal game combine with what we have and they not consdier often caused problems, look at Scarlet Spear Limbo, something they apperently forgot? Or Nyx Absrobtion Augment, first it was unintentd, got fixed then the community cried and they made the bug a feature with absorbing friendly fire counting or not.

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On 2020-05-18 at 6:03 AM, Nichivo said:

Fortuna's Orb Vallis had challenge, people whined so it got nerfed. Railjack was supposed to be group oriented, it was pretty well balanced for a solo challenge (needed tougher mobs in the veil), but people whined, and it got nerfed so hard you can't even call it group content.

Arbitrations had challenge then revives were added. I play them solo only so I get the original feel.

Nope!  I am going to disagree on the basis that any content that presents challenge, gets nerfed into the ground because of people whining. Just look at all the moaning about the glassmaker puzzle, and the resource neither of which are difficult, or hard to obtain, or complete, yet people are whining.

if it were possible, I would give you the "hug" reaction, I don't stop and I'll never stop saying that:

it doesn't mattaer what content will be added to the game, neither matters the kind of difficulty it has, if there is(difficulty) it will get nerfed because there are always too many people that start complaining and whining about "how" hard something is to do.

and just like you said, look at the glassmaker puzzle, i saw people claiming that jumping on the floating rocks, was and is too hard(no, they weren't talking about bugs, but about how hard it is)

also, in addition to the things you mentioned:

-sortie got nerfed a lot

- some special units(like bursa or scambrus) had huge nerfs

-nightwave missions have been semplified a lot(because some people said that since they work 8 hours a day, they WANT to complete all the challenges as soon as possible, because they do not want to grind too much in the game)

-railjack...ok, at first it was broken-the enemies could oneshot your archwing with few hits- etc etc, but now...now my god...you press a button, and your ship kills everything in your sight... the challenge was completely removed, and even when your ship get shoot a lot, you barely see a fire or a breach,...yes, before the number of fires and breaches were exaggerated, now  even the hardest node it's just a joke...do i still like the railjack missions? yes....do i hope, new missions will have some kind of challange? yes( a fun challenge, not a frustrating one).

 

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On 2020-05-19 at 7:46 AM, ShimmerDoll said:

I still think ME3 multi did powers way better than this game. There was cooldowns and not energy pools which felt more strategic and the abilities were fun, nothing was designed as trash to rank up, everything was mostly good.   Playing that game was fun.  In warframe farming as fast as possible to the exit screen so I can get up and walk away from my PC is the reward. Hoping they release actual attractive designs is the other thing I look forward too. Seeing a new gun and hoping it doesn't get nerfed or is weak AF and gets tossed away after hitting 30. 

I take it you haven't play ME3 multiplayer seriously right ?
Everything was Mk X or nothing. And you can only rank up weapons by opening RNG crates.
If it happens to drop the same weapon as your current one, then congrats you can level up your gun.

That is worse than farming.

As for cool downs, you do know that there are specific +200% cool down builds to solo Platinum, your cool down is as long as your animation to finish ?
The game is even spammier at the highest levels, because there is no energy / energy drain monsters to worry about.

The only thing why it looks balanced is because most spells have very small AOEs except for Singularity. 

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En 18/5/2020 a las 6:03, Nichivo dijo:

Fortuna's Orb Vallis had challenge, people whined so it got nerfed. Railjack was supposed to be group oriented, it was pretty well balanced for a solo challenge (needed tougher mobs in the veil), but people whined, and it got nerfed so hard you can't even call it group content.

Arbitrations had challenge then revives were added. I play them solo only so I get the original feel.

Nope!  I am going to disagree on the basis that any content that presents challenge, gets nerfed into the ground because of people whining. Just look at all the moaning about the glassmaker puzzle, and the resource neither of which are difficult, or hard to obtain, or complete, yet people are whining.

Wait, people are complaining about the glassmaker puzzle?? Hell, it's pretty easy, even if it took me 3 tries but the whole way to the 3rd try meant something, was meaningful, for the 1st time in Warframe since... more than 6 months.

 

People complaining bout glassmaker puzzle: just give up, collect floofs and stuff like that, pls.

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Why do people have to believe this game was or should be designed for Veteran players? Why does it need an "Endgame" at all?

I got 800 to 1000 good hours out of it. Due to lack of slots, I started out by leveling weapons and warframes then deleting them. (This was probably the most FUN part of the game because it was challenging due to my lack of mods and lack of knowledge about how enemies worked and lack of knowledge about the maps. Lots of discovery and it required a lot of focus and being "in the moment".)

Deleting warframes and weapons early in the game didn't bother me because I knew there were Primed versions of those things that I would eventually obtain, but I started getting worried as I was running out of "trash" frames and "garbage" weapons that were only good for Mastery Rank... and that was when I magically received the 75% coupon for plat and spent $50 in real money.  I used most of it to buy Slots (warframe slots, weapon slots, sentinel slots, pet cryo slots, archwing slots, riven slots... so many slots). I could start to keep my good weapons and Prime stuffs.

As the game started getting easier (mod , forma, and knowledge increase), fun continued in the form of searching out, obtaining and building the more difficult to acquire items.

Now I have almost all the Prime stuff (just a few vaulted weapons left), I have a few non-Prime frames to get still, but I have to play in the Plains of Eidolon and the Orb Vallis, both of which I don't enjoy (and just the thought of grinding those makes me feel a little ill).

So, $50 = 1000 hours of enjoyment (mostly engaging) = a successful purchase. And I'll probably come back in the future when I get the itch to play again and start working on PoE and OV and the Quills.

How many games have you spent $50 on and then only played for 40 hours (or less)?

I think DE has done just fine. They are making money and for that money (at least what I spent) they are giving a very good $:time ratio. 

Now if they would just make the LOOT mod for the Carrier sentinal not SUCK so much, I'd be totally pleased with the experience. 🙂

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They only need play their own game with intent to enjoy it to make it all clear....sadly it seems that continues to be an Achilles heel! 

Props though for smoothing over railjack from its initial presentation. I really love the concept...execution still needs refinement.

WE STILL NEED PILOTABLE ORBITER THROWN IN THERE!!! that nightwave ship is awsome... 

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11 hours ago, Wearbe said:

Why do people have to believe this game was or should be designed for Veteran players? Why does it need an "Endgame" at all?

I got 800 to 1000 good hours out of it. Due to lack of slots, I started out by leveling weapons and warframes then deleting them. (This was probably the most FUN part of the game because it was challenging due to my lack of mods and lack of knowledge about how enemies worked and lack of knowledge about the maps. Lots of discovery and it required a lot of focus and being "in the moment".)

Deleting warframes and weapons early in the game didn't bother me because I knew there were Primed versions of those things that I would eventually obtain, but I started getting worried as I was running out of "trash" frames and "garbage" weapons that were only good for Mastery Rank... and that was when I magically received the 75% coupon for plat and spent $50 in real money.  I used most of it to buy Slots (warframe slots, weapon slots, sentinel slots, pet cryo slots, archwing slots, riven slots... so many slots). I could start to keep my good weapons and Prime stuffs.

As the game started getting easier (mod , forma, and knowledge increase), fun continued in the form of searching out, obtaining and building the more difficult to acquire items.

Now I have almost all the Prime stuff (just a few vaulted weapons left), I have a few non-Prime frames to get still, but I have to play in the Plains of Eidolon and the Orb Vallis, both of which I don't enjoy (and just the thought of grinding those makes me feel a little ill).

So, $50 = 1000 hours of enjoyment (mostly engaging) = a successful purchase. And I'll probably come back in the future when I get the itch to play again and start working on PoE and OV and the Quills.

How many games have you spent $50 on and then only played for 40 hours (or less)?

I think DE has done just fine. They are making money and for that money (at least what I spent) they are giving a very good $:time ratio. 

Now if they would just make the LOOT mod for the Carrier sentinal not SUCK so much, I'd be totally pleased with the experience. 🙂

Well imagine you owned everything, cosmetics to legendary riven, with horde of platinum, billions of resources in your foundry etc etc....

 

Now the question is: what you gonna do now? You aimlessly farm more stuff and massacre same npc over and over again? Set your own random challenge just for the memes? Combine every possible fashion? Chatting within your clan/alliance that are useless beside research and decorations? Carry baby tenno to the point that they also hit content drought?......Oh, you can wait for new contents and tedious weekly nightwave, and finish them within a day or week depend on timed gate when you come back.

 

With this game going for grind to have win-simulator power fantasy, it get dull fast and lack of effort do to anything ingame has offer, this game does not have challenge, no sense of accomplishment. "wide as ocean deep as a puddle" really describe warframe well, if they just revisit all the old ideas and contents they removed (aka Dark Sector, Raid) this kind of problem won't be so huge anyways. 

I know different people have different way to enjoy, but I'm sure that I do not enjoy the current state of warframe right now, other tenno can agree with this or not. Thanks for reading my crappy English paragraph probably with a lot of grammar, hopefully this can show you our suffering.

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On 2020-05-19 at 9:14 PM, DOOMPATRIOT said:

I am not even asking for challenge, not anymore, I am asking for engaging gameplay, current gameplay isn't engaging or fun.

You saying Warframe "No bugs, it's much better than it used to be" makes me think that Railjack release was earased from your mind.

Warframe nowadays it's only grind, and even you (that is defending heavely the game) thinks it's not fun.

A minigame being the hardest thing in a videogame means something is not ok...

Its not only a grind.You can talk with people fashion frame, trade, customize your dojo, fish,explore open words, set up a cool clan various mission types and more. Their is  even a lot of stuff I haven’t done in the game. But I really like warframe more for the social experience and the grind just falls in to play because of that.

i agree that I would like to see more content in the game like a new open world area to explore an have end game type content.

Ive played Railjack for a little bit and it was fun wish it had a different style from archwig tho but I haven’t experienced any problems and it was fun.

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On 2020-05-19 at 2:59 AM, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Things start out slow and simple and fun in the beginning, then they change with the times, and the people that were used to the old way have a hard time adjusting, sure.

I don't think its just that. I think WF is beginning to show its age and it's core game design which hasn't really changed despite additions is starting to wear thin.

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hace 7 horas, (NSW)JJA209 dijo:

Its not only a grind.You can talk with people fashion frame, trade, customize your dojo, fish,explore open words, set up a cool clan various mission types and more. Their is  even a lot of stuff I haven’t done in the game. But I really like warframe more for the social experience and the grind just falls in to play because of that.

So F2P Animal Crossing, but with more grind?

If those are the things you like about Warframe that's cool, everybody has their own taste, the thing is that those aspects of Warframe doesn't make Warframe, Warframe, it used to be the good touch with the developer, later new quests, some time after the "friendly" community, and now the grind and the dissapointment (sadly).

I hate to pop your buble, but Warframe doesn't really have a lot of mission types just 9 and divides in 2: defend the thing and kill x amount of things, there isn't real exploration in Open Worlds pass the third time you enter an Open world, unless you mean the fish trophy and the lackluster lore of Fortuna.

Also if you like those aspects about Warframe, and you say that there is a lot of things you haven't done (which I think you mean only Arbitrarions, Eidolons, Profit Taker, and maybe some quests, which apart of the quests, there are all grind) then what you are doing in this thread, you don't care about difficulty or balance, go have fun, enjoy Warframe while you still can...

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