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Hard Mode: Will this become another abandoned "content island?"


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2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I hope I can solo max rank anything using Hard mode at least, I am sick of Hydron and using Onslaught.

This is pretty much the selling point for me.

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I dont mind it ending being dead content or content island, not this mode. This is something that I do regularly for fun, so having slapped resistances and extra level on enemies its fine for me, because thats literally all I want. Same reward with more damage resistant enemies for my survival runs.

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On 2020-05-19 at 7:44 PM, Savire510 said:

Everything depends on the rewards of the Hard mode. And i mean EVERYTHING. We need to wait and see.

Well kid you’ve already lost a lot of people there

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Worse, Hard Mode may become the norm with the normal star chart missions being the abandoned content. The poor new players will essentially be isolated from the experienced players who will prefer the Hard Mode.

Such is what happens in D3... Blizzard adds a higher Torment? Everyone migrates to the highest Torment. I think it's up to T16 now. So let's see... Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, T1-T16... so that's 20 difficulty for D3. Guess what the majority of the experienced players play? You guessed it... T16! Who plays the other 19 difficulties? New players! And they come to the D3 forums and post in confusion about never encountering any other players!

So let's hope Warframe stops at Hard Mode because D3 started with 4 difficulties. Then that became 10 difficulties.... then 14 difficulties, then 17 difficulties and then now 20 difficulties. And that's not counting the 150 possible GR levels you can select (each their own "difficulty").

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, nslay said:

Worse, Hard Mode may become the norm with the normal star chart missions being the abandoned content. The poor new players will essentially be isolated from the experienced players who will prefer the Hard Mode.

Such is what happens in D3... Blizzard adds a higher Torment? Everyone migrates to the highest Torment. I think it's up to T16 now. So let's see... Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, T1-T16... so that's 20 difficulty for D3. Guess what the majority of the experienced players play? You guessed it... T16! Who plays the other 19 difficulties? New players! And they come to the D3 forums and post in confusion about never encountering any other players!

So let's hope Warframe stops at Hard Mode because D3 started with 4 difficulties. Then that became 10 difficulties.... then 14 difficulties, then 17 difficulties and then now 20 difficulties. And that's not counting the 150 possible GR levels you can select (each their own "difficulty").

That just sounds like less people leeching off good players, I don't see a problem with that. God forbid new players actually have to learn how to play instead of being carried 24/7...

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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4 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

That just sounds like less people leeching off good players, I don't see a problem with that. God forbid new players actually have to learn how to play instead of being carried 24/7...

Its sad cause with how bad you get op in the game new players will burn through the star chart then get have to “carried” in hard mode

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14 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

That just sounds like less people leeching off good players, I don't see a problem with that. God forbid new players actually have to learn how to play instead of being carried 24/7...

Stratifying the player base is a good way to lose new players and help Warframe die sooner.

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2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Stratifying the player base is a good way to lose new players and help Warframe die sooner.

I cant really see how hard mode will be the norm. No one play normal missions unless doing relics and the likes. And they are not modified on hard mode.

Hard mode will be just a fun thing, nothing more, nothing less. Unless they add extra relic drops, etc itll be that, fun for veterans doing normal missions for the lolz.

Outside of that, people will be using normal starchart for everything else because its locked behind that, using normal starchart.

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11 minutes ago, nslay said:

Stratifying the player base is a good way to lose new players and help Warframe die sooner.

OR it'll actually mean new players play more normal missions in order to level instead of speed running or taxiing to Hydron and ignoring 95% of the game's content, before becoming yet another static, clueless noob who presses 4 to win and can't think beyond that.

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47 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

OR it'll actually mean new players play more normal missions in order to level instead of speed running or taxiing to Hydron and ignoring 95% of the game's content, before becoming yet another static, clueless noob who presses 4 to win and can't think beyond that.

A large population of players press 4 to win and that’s now their fault it’s down to how the game and frames are designed bruv 

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I hope that they will listen and make the hard mode have fissure and reward more credits / endo / kuva than normal starchart. The booster are a good step forward, but doesn't seems enough.

The credits /endo rewards should be consistent with normal starchart T3/T4

Instead of additional drop chance, a x2 would be more safisfactory as it would also double Kuva

Add fissures (we need lith, meso, neo and axi to get primed gears, at least hard axi would be ok...)

Also having "just" +100lvl and health/armor/shield boost, mean that you will still have to wait 5~10 waves to have bursa / Nox / eximus...

I would have prefered "eximus stronghold mutator" instead of bullet sponge.

Also why archwing ?

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

A large population of players press 4 to win and that’s now their fault it’s down to how the game and frames are designed bruv 

Not disagreeing with that part however they lack the ability to adapt to new content which is why there is always so many threads asking how to do something that is fairly simple to work out. And that's because they choose to just rush the content for the sake of levelling a bunch of mediocre weapons while standing still in the level and watching netflix.

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56 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Not disagreeing with that part however they lack the ability to adapt to new content which is why there is always so many threads asking how to do something that is fairly simple to work out. And that's because they choose to just rush the content for the sake of levelling a bunch of mediocre weapons while standing still in the level and watching netflix.

Again that’s the cause of the devs allowing such to go on for such a prolonged time.  But. I do understand what your saying 

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50-50 bet that the Mode at first week will be unfair or unbalance with lesser reward then slowly band-aid fix and adding more suitable rewards before it even playable to Console.

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1 minute ago, ZzVinniezZ said:

50-50 bet that the Mode at first week will be unfair or unbalance with lesser reward then slowly band-aid fix and adding more suitable rewards before it even playable to Console.

Doubtful. Commentary from test cluster players already addressing that. It will be tightened up before it goes live. 

DE wont make this a reward heaven as it is for "players" who want more challenge not for your garden variety WF player. Rebecca made it quite clear what the Dev team is making this for so expecting this to be in the caliber if a main line content update is not practical. 

Will see however, and the concern is if the rewards are too good then this mode becomes mandatory for players of all levels in their eyes, and that DE won't allow to happen.

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I have some veterean warframe players, and also I, (+1.600 hours ingame), that NEED the hard mode..
We dont need rewards..we have EVERYTHING..We just need some levels were we can test ourselfs..
If the Hard mode is for "seasoned players" like DE stated..why the rewards?
When you achieve + 1.000 hours in this game, you don´t need anything..because you have everything maxed..all the deluxe skins..we only need something to play for, that its HARD mode for us..
I know that i am speaking for me and my fellow clan mates opinion, and i know other players think different, but are those veteran players talking?
How can you be a veteran player, and still need rewards like Axi relics, more resources, more endo, more etc..?
That is just strange... We wanna play Hard MODE for fun..not to get more of something else we have a lot...
 

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On 2020-05-20 at 1:59 AM, HelmetTooTight said:

Hard mode as presented in its current "state" is just an elite version of the star chart with boosted enemy levels. If the rewards are lacking, I believe it will devolve into the current star chart's state: a one time completionist thing. Furthermore, this may not be the endgame content some are looking for, because your weapons and abilities will casually rip through a level 100 enemy with no problem either.

I've seen a lot of threads suggesting new mechanics to make hard mode "hard," but I don't think DE needs to reinvent the wheel. Nightmare mode is not "hard" because the levels are low, yes, but the modifiers are usually also not threatening enough. So I'll suggest this: why not allow players to enable more and more modifiers (more risk) for more rewards? Ideally, hard mode in my opinion would be something more like several rotating alerts (depending on which mode you want to play) every 15-30 minutes, with rewards being some "Elite token" or something you can trade in for rewards. More modifiers = more tokens. For any Halo players out there, basically the idea of skulls.

As I said, there are already modifiers in Warframe that can make it more difficult; I'll just pull them from existing Sortie/Nightmare modifiers for those not familiar.

  • Augmented Enemy Armor
  • Augmented Enemy Shields
  • Cryogenic Leakage (Half shields)
  • No shields
  • Fog
  • Electromagnetic Anomalies/Low gravity
  • Enemy Physical Enhancement (They take less physical damage and deal more of it)
  • Enemy Elemental Enhancement (They take less elemental damage and deal more of it)
  • Energy Reduction (Reduced energy pool and energy regen)
  • Energy Drain
  • Eximus Stronghold (More eximus units)
  • Extreme Cold (Slower movement e.g. bullet jumps, sprinting, rolling, reloading etc.)
  • Fire (Half health/reduced health regen)
  • Vampire mode (health drain, killing restores)
  • One weapon only (e.g. rifle, melee, secondary, etc.)
  • Death detonation
  • Timer (kills add time)

One of these modifiers by itself is probably not much to worry about, but when you start stacking them, you'll have reduced/draining health, shields, energy, damage, etc. The only thing that needs to be nerfed prematurely is spoiler mode and maybe Inaros, and then you'll have a challenge on hand. Most of these modifiers should only affect you, so if you go to matchmaking (pub) with all the modifiers on, you might still be matched with someone who only has like 1 or 2 enabled (with exception to some of the environmental modifiers). More modifiers can be introduced based on mechanics already in the game (e.g. Alarms make for more heavy unit spawns).

I personally only play Sorties/Kuva Floods because they are the closest thing I can get to "endgame content" without having to run an endless mission. They also don't feel repetitive because the nodes/modes for them are constantly changing. Hard mode can harness this same diversity, while actually introducing the challenging aspect some players are looking for. Thanks for reading! Let me know what y'all think.

 

TL;DR: Allow players to stack existing Warframe difficulty modifiers from Sortie/Nightmare in "Hard mode" to create more challenge as a high risk, high reward scenario. Rewards are some kind of tokens (similar to Scarlet Spear credits, idk about rewards).

Ahh, the good ol' "more rewards!" again. Hah!

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I don't mind more rewards, but I feel the people asking for more rewards well be the same that complain that hardmode provides a challenge and would prefer it nerfed for efficiency. 

When DE tweaks steel path, I want them balance it for challenge, not just to make it easier. 

For example, don't nerf armor because rewards seekers think it's too much work to optimize their build. If you want to get kuva faster, play normal. Do nerf armor if the scaling is beyond reasonable and not even optimal builds make a difference. 

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14 hours ago, nslay said:

Worse, Hard Mode may become the norm with the normal star chart missions being the abandoned content. The poor new players will essentially be isolated from the experienced players who will prefer the Hard Mode.

Such is what happens in D3... Blizzard adds a higher Torment? Everyone migrates to the highest Torment. I think it's up to T16 now. So let's see... Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, T1-T16... so that's 20 difficulty for D3. Guess what the majority of the experienced players play? You guessed it... T16! Who plays the other 19 difficulties? New players! And they come to the D3 forums and post in confusion about never encountering any other players!

So let's hope Warframe stops at Hard Mode because D3 started with 4 difficulties. Then that became 10 difficulties.... then 14 difficulties, then 17 difficulties and then now 20 difficulties. And that's not counting the 150 possible GR levels you can select (each their own "difficulty").

Why do new players need to be carried? New players aren't going to learn from a veteran speedrunning the node and calling it a day. They're new, they should be playing the damn game and not have veterans do the heavy lifting for them.  In time new players will become experienced players and rinse and repeat.

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Just now, R.O.G.U.E. said:

Why do new players need to be carried? New players aren't going to learn from a veteran speedrunning the node and calling it a day. They're new, they should be playing the damn game and not have veterans do the heavy lifting for them.  In time new players will become experienced players and rinse and repeat.

It's not that they need to be carried, it's that they need to see other players in the game to set a good impression of the game. If the normal star chart missions are devoid of players, this will make new players uncomfortable.

Furthermore, the mixing of new and experienced players gives new players the opportunity to interact and learn from experienced players (usually... yeah, there are toxic experienced players). So if you're a new player playing Warframe and every multiplayer game you play is just you... what will you think of this game? This happens in Diablo 3 and you do occasionally see confused new players post about how there is no one playing Diablo 3.

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14 hours ago, nslay said:

Worse, Hard Mode may become the norm with the normal star chart missions being the abandoned content. The poor new players will essentially be isolated from the experienced players who will prefer the Hard Mode.

There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it might be better. Regular star chart is already dead enough except for specific nodes where people farm exp or relics. A few couple of nodes out of a couple hundred nodes. You make a new account and until you hit farming hotspots you will barely see higher mr players. Occasionally might see them on assassination nodes  for warframes they were lazy to farm earlier but even if hard mode became the norm, they would go back to regular star chart nodes for those because parts drop 100% of the time, and efficiency on lower level bosses to rush is better.
When I said it might be better, it was because your first impression of the game is important. If you load in and everyone else is running around killing everything and you get to do nothing but collect loot on the ground, you lose interest in the game. Power creep on early content is bad, and I believe is one of the current issues of new player retention. When you play long enough that you're farming the same mission over and over, you might appreciate them more though.

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