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Zahnny

Is Survival and Defense harmful to Warframe's meta?

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I've been thinking to myself. Survival and Defense have been my primarily most disliked mission types in Warframe, Infested Salvage is also up there but given its limited to one node I never have to touch again, I don't have much desire to speak on it.

I don't have a problem with anyone who enjoys these gamemodes just that I think they might be somewhat harmful fo the Game due to their nature.

Anyway, I've been thinking, Survival and Defense are two missions where kill efficiency takes top priority. If you slack on how fast you are killing things, you are punished. In Survival you are always up against a timer that tells you that you have to kill fast enough or you'll completely fail. The same can also apply to Sanctuary Onslaught, only difference being you don't need to collect life support capsules, even retaining the Oxygen Towers in the form of Efficiency Stimulus.

For Defense, you're not punished as severely but it will progress severely slower if you're not at peak kill efficiency.

Unfortunately, having gamemodes that rely on how fast you are killing things will only lead into a singular meta. And that is what are the best weapons and warframes for killing things as fast as possible. Damage is King, and things such as CC has become left in the dust.

DE don't want players who will nuke entire rooms or tilesets in a few button presses or with a certain build, but because of these gamemodes, players are incentivized to do exactly this which leads to mixed messages.

Again, I'm not trying to punish anyone or condemn people for their preferred playstyle. I just want to point out the unintentional oxymoron that results from not wanting players to be in perfect efficiency when the game itself on mechanics alone seem to state the opposite.

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No. 

Optimizing kill efficiency and finding ways to kill stuff faster is part of the fun for me. Has been since the start.

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1 minute ago, Brynslustafir said:

No.

Please read my thread before commenting. My thread is not a Newspaper headline and it feels really disrespectful when users do this.

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Just now, Zahnny said:

Please read my thread before commenting. My thread is not a Newspaper headline and it feels really disrespectful when users do this.

Believe or not, I did. I simply don't agree with your conclusion.

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1 minute ago, Brynslustafir said:

Believe or not, I did. I simply don't agree with your conclusion.

Apologies. Single word replies really get under my skin.

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Your argument makes only half sense since you get "punished" in every mission type if you go and kill slowly. You lose time, you lose loot. For example if you farm for a mod in any mission type you get punished by getting less rolls on the drop table if you go and kill slowly. So, it's always and anywhere in Warframe better to go and kill fast thus it's not a situation caused by the game modes you mentioned they just punish you harsher than the rest of the game by failing the mission because of in-built "timer" mechanisms (Def target health, life support, ESO efficiency).

Basically, I agree with your concept but not with it being tied to certain game modes. It's the entire game. It's pretty obvious honestly. It's how farming works in every game with chances to get what you want. Diablo 3, WoW - even if you farm a %chance drop in Dark Souls - all the same. You try to farm efficiently which means, if it involves killing, you want to kill fast and/or move fast if you have to get to a certain point to collect the reward.

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As Deeceem says above, it's far from isolated to those two modes. The only one where it might not be punished so severely are purely objective-based ones like Spy or Sabotage.

Now, whether that focus on "kill everything" is necessarily a good thing is another matter entirely. In one sense, yes, it's good fun. There's a certain challenge to optimizing kill efficiency. But in another sense, it's very pervasive. There's clear potential for non-kill-focused elements like Spy and Sabotage to fit into the game but, by and far, they're quite niche. I dare say nuke frames are so pervasive because much of the game is nuke-leaning. If you had more things that required stealth or things like invulnerable, ability-susceptible enemies in some defence missions (to prefer CC over damage), you could end up with bigger niches for non-DPS frames.

Just my thoughts, at least.

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endless missions is what kept me in the game since the get go. exterminate and others I rarely play, and I absolutely hate spy which is why I don't do sorties. seems like you want a Ratchet and clank type game to play.

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No, there are frames and weapons that only really shine in defensive or long survival missions. If you remove the missions than you remove their niches as well.

When I open relics I also prefer long missions like defense or survival. I think the OP is one of the leave at wave 5 crowd I have come to despise.

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1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

I've been thinking to myself. Survival and Defense have been my primarily most disliked mission types in Warframe, Infested Salvage is also up there but given its limited to one node I never have to touch again, I don't have much desire to speak on it.

I don't have a problem with anyone who enjoys these gamemodes just that I think they might be somewhat harmful fo the Game due to their nature.

Anyway, I've been thinking, Survival and Defense are two missions where kill efficiency takes top priority. If you slack on how fast you are killing things, you are punished. In Survival you are always up against a timer that tells you that you have to kill fast enough or you'll completely fail. The same can also apply to Sanctuary Onslaught, only difference being you don't need to collect life support capsules, even retaining the Oxygen Towers in the form of Efficiency Stimulus.

For Defense, you're not punished as severely but it will progress severely slower if you're not at peak kill efficiency.

Unfortunately, having gamemodes that rely on how fast you are killing things will only lead into a singular meta. And that is what are the best weapons and warframes for killing things as fast as possible. Damage is King, and things such as CC has become left in the dust.

DE don't want players who will nuke entire rooms or tilesets in a few button presses or with a certain build, but because of these gamemodes, players are incentivized to do exactly this which leads to mixed messages.

Again, I'm not trying to punish anyone or condemn people for their preferred playstyle. I just want to point out the unintentional oxymoron that results from not wanting players to be in perfect efficiency when the game itself on mechanics alone seem to state the opposite.

Not at all. Your issue can be alleviated by making your own group if nukers are ruining your experience.

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Gottagofast will always be the meta in a game that involves grinding. And it really isn't about any gamemode or one specific thing in a specific game; it is 100% caused by the players and their desire to be as efficent as possible. As much as I hate the meta way of playing I can't really blame people who play that way. I mean how many times have we been told to hurry up by our parents, kids, spouces, siblings, bosses, coworkers, random people etc? Society expects us to be as efficent as possible so no wonder many people end up going for that in their hobbies too. I know people who basically compete over who can read a book the fastest instead of actually getting into the stroy or trying to understand the characters etc. 

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1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

I've been thinking to myself. Survival and Defense have been my primarily most disliked mission types in Warframe, Infested Salvage is also up there but given its limited to one node I never have to touch again, I don't have much desire to speak on it.

I don't have a problem with anyone who enjoys these gamemodes just that I think they might be somewhat harmful fo the Game due to their nature.

Anyway, I've been thinking, Survival and Defense are two missions where kill efficiency takes top priority. If you slack on how fast you are killing things, you are punished. In Survival you are always up against a timer that tells you that you have to kill fast enough or you'll completely fail. The same can also apply to Sanctuary Onslaught, only difference being you don't need to collect life support capsules, even retaining the Oxygen Towers in the form of Efficiency Stimulus.

For Defense, you're not punished as severely but it will progress severely slower if you're not at peak kill efficiency.

Unfortunately, having gamemodes that rely on how fast you are killing things will only lead into a singular meta. And that is what are the best weapons and warframes for killing things as fast as possible. Damage is King, and things such as CC has become left in the dust.

DE don't want players who will nuke entire rooms or tilesets in a few button presses or with a certain build, but because of these gamemodes, players are incentivized to do exactly this which leads to mixed messages.

Again, I'm not trying to punish anyone or condemn people for their preferred playstyle. I just want to point out the unintentional oxymoron that results from not wanting players to be in perfect efficiency when the game itself on mechanics alone seem to state the opposite.

 Several of the detractions you list are arbitrary and subjective "peak kill efficiency" for example only matters in game mechanics for ESO. The rest is personal preference of yourself or the party you're in and you can simply run solo, or find like minded players to run the content in the manner you wish to. 

They don't design content around one meta, players find one meta to use in all content that is a fundamental truth in Warframe no matter how you perceive it. If you don't want to run the current flavour of the month meta you don't have to. Only you can make the choice to go meta or not.

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