gladiator set doesn't affect iron staff now

[nooneyouknow13]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Err... For you perhaps? No offence intended ofc with this, but I don't think this is accurate in the slightest.

For myself and many others, we were using the set from the very beginning which was late 2017. There was significant discussion about it at the time on the forums, as well as the years since. 90% of Wukong threads mentioned how he interacted with the Gladiator set, since he was the frame best suited to making use of it. 

Not easy to take my word, granted, but I can assure you, it has been a known thing for far longer than just a year.

Shows what I know. I barely pay attention to patch notes nowadays. I swing my weapon, it deals damage, all that matters.

Known, and well known are two different things. I figured it out within my first couple of months playing, but even right up until melee 3.0 the vast majority of players still weren't running Surging Dash+Naramon's Power on Excalibur to make use of the combo mult and glad set, despite it being by far his best damage build at the time.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Everything got nerfed, even enemy armor scaling. 

Hyperbole is still a hyperbole.

Armor scaling reduction doesn’t do much when Iron Staffs Damage starts falling off before the scaling changes to additional.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

My brother's iron staff doesn't seem to be having issues, how is yours?

IDK, I’ve tried a plethora of builds and at the end of the day it’s still the worst exalted melee by a very large margin.

[DeMonkey]

7 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Known, and well known are two different things. I figured it out within my first couple of months playing, but even right up until melee 3.0 the vast majority of players still weren't running Surging Dash+Naramon's Power on Excalibur to make use of the combo mult and glad set, despite it being by far his best damage build at the time.

 

Different story, many valued his augment and Condition Overload. It certainly did well enough that more damage wasn't really a necessity.

Wukong on the other hand had no other real build for his staff.

I'm sorry but I've been around these forums and the game a tad longer, the glad set affecting exalted weapons has absolutely been well known for substantially longer than the past year. People were using and actively discussing it back in 2017.

7 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Known, and well known are two different things

That's just pedantic.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

ok... so one thing that id rather see a little more of... is a bit more cordial responses to my statements, i only get a bit hostile when others start it.  if i say something about how i play that bothers anyone, it'd be much easier to have a simple debate if others didnt jump my ass for it.  simply make a comment about how i can improve without the bigotry.  

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

simply make a comment about how i can improve without the bigotry. 

 

23 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

if you are building the iron staff for crit, than that's a you problem, not the weapon

Bigotry, showing an intolerance to those who hold a different opinion.

"I build my Wukong with the Gladiator set, and am unhappy with the nerf."

"If that's how you built it, that's a you problem, not the weapon's."

To come into the thread and immediately dismiss the feedback (OP's opinion) on the basis that we were all building wrong because we aren't using your build is plain rude. No, the fact that the set was nerfed is not an "us" problem. No one is wrong for wanting to use it.

If you want people to be more tolerant of your opinion, don't start by completely dismissing theirs. And that applies to both of you. Don't want sassy responses? Don't start with a sassy response.

I hope you feel I have responded in a fair manner so that you can improve how you word things.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

 

Bigotry, showing an intolerance to those who hold a different opinion.

"I build my Wukong with the Gladiator set, and am unhappy with the nerf."

"If that's how you built it, that's a you problem, not the weapon's."

To come into the thread and immediately dismiss the feedback (OP's opinion) on the basis that we were all building wrong because we aren't using your build is plain rude. No, the fact that the set was nerfed is not an "us" problem. No one is wrong for wanting to use it.

If you want people to be more tolerant of your opinion, don't start by completely dismissing theirs. And that applies to both of you. Don't want sassy responses? Don't start with a sassy response.

I hope you feel I have responded in a fair manner so that you can improve how you word things.

you know what, youre right about that part, and to OP, i do apologize for being disrespectful,  it was out of line, and i should have phrased things differently.  but here;s the thing monkey, it doesnt excuse YOU from being sassy at me, my first post on this thread wasnt even directed at you, but towards OP, you were sassy at me from the get go, if you want to go down the high ground route towards me, do it if im sassy at you right out the gate,  its not your place to treat others as they treat the OP of a post, if OP doesnt stoop to the level i did in my first post on this thread, than leave me be, its not your job to do it for him/her.  he chose to be the better person and ask for me to provide proof of my statement, instead of lashing out at me for being an ass.  you were a bigot towards me from the get go, with no provocation, i honestly didnt do anything to warrent you making the statement that i was "desperate to show off"  

 

my original statement was built on the false pretense that iron staff was exclusively a status weapon, which i learned while making said video i posted, was not the case.

 

long story short, we both could use that advice of yours.  as stated, the only person in this thread who had any right to be sassy towards me after my assholish post, was OP themselves, and they chose not too, instead they were quite cordial with me.  you simply said i was desperate to show off.  thats where i was going with my previous comment

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

its not your place to treat others as they treat the OP of a post

Disagree. You know the old saying, treat others how you wish to he treated. I saw you treating someone else like that so... fair game.

Plus, if I hadn't have done so, you wouldn't have made the post just now and we wouldn't be having this discussion. 

16 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

you were a bigot towards me from the get go

Not really. You didn't share an opinion on the actual thread, just that we were wrong for building a certain way. I didn't snap at you for your opinion, I snapped because of your dismissal of OP's.I was intolerant to your intolerance.

18 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

i honestly didnt do anything to warrent you making the statement that i was "desperate to show off

Hmm, I'm sorry you don't. 

Try reading it from the OP's perspective however. They make a thread where they cite a nerf that has negatively impacted their playstyle.

They get a response that not only infers that the nerf isn't an issue because they were building wrong, but then proceeds to rub their personal build in their face and even state that they'll post it.

This thread isn't about different builds, no one cares whether it's "right" or "wrong" to build a certain way. It's feedback on a nerf, but you made it about you.

That's why I accused you of wanting to show off, because it's really the only reason I could actually understand someone doing that for.

[nooneyouknow13]

51 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Different story, many valued his augment and Condition Overload. It certainly did well enough that more damage wasn't really a necessity.

Wukong on the other hand had no other real build for his staff.

I'm sorry but I've been around these forums and the game a tad longer, the glad set affecting exalted weapons has absolutely been well known for substantially longer than the past year. People were using and actively discussing it back in 2017.

That's just pedantic.

I mean, I've known being in razorwing suspends sniper shot combo decay and melee combo decay for about 3 years. I've even told people about it. I doubt more than 1% of the active players base is aware of this. I literally just found out when writing this post that diwata now snaps to an enemy's head, instead of their feet. This was an issue since they reintroduced archmelee lock on, that was fixed without documentation.

These forums see less traffic than the subreddit. For most games, less than half of the players ever actually find their way to an official forum, and even less actively read things that don't pertain to their main character/weapon/etc, or pet issue. Sad to say, but if one of the partners didn't spell out a mechanic in a video, most of playerbase simply will not know about it.

You yourself were just unaware that blood rush and gladiator set haven't worked on modified crit since melee 3.0 dropped, and that is far more well known even at this point than getting the glad bonus on exalted weapons.

 

Also, using the glad set and surging dash didn't replace CO at all. The only reason we didn't have these same discussion about exalted weapons back then was normal melees did like 30 to 80 damage, and now they deal 80 to 250. DE thinks power scaling makes up for lack of combo scaling mods, and the loss of the straight multiplier the old combo meter gave, and we don't.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You yourself were just unaware that blood rush and gladiator set haven't worked on modified crit since melee 3.0 dropped, and that is far more well known even at this point than getting the glad bonus on exalted weapons.

As I stated, I've stopped caring for a while now. I cared very much back in 2017 however.

3 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

and that is far more well known even at this point than getting the glad bonus on exalted weapons.

Yeah, you keep saying this and I still don't think it's accurate in the slightest. You keep bringing up other frames and their interactions to support your statement, and I'm stating that with regards to Wukong and Wukong discussions, it was well known. 

5 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Also, using the glad set and surging dash didn't replace CO at all.

I didn't infer otherwise. I simply stated that there was another very popular build that was more than viable.

Wukong never had another build, the gladiator set was his saving grace, it was a known thing since 2017.

[nooneyouknow13]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

As I stated, I've stopped caring for a while now. I cared very much back in 2017 however.

Yeah, you keep saying this and I still don't think it's accurate in the slightest. You keep bringing up other frames and their interactions to support your statement, and I'm stating that with regards to Wukong and Wukong discussions, it was well known. 

I didn't infer otherwise. I simply stated that there was another very popular build that was more than viable.

Wukong never had another build, the gladiator set was his saving grace, it was a known thing since 2017.

Even if it was well known for Wukong players, that's an almost non-existent demographic before his rework in 25.2. I have been referring to the entire warframe playerbase this entire time, not just Wukong players. That's why I keep bringing up other frames.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Even if it was well known for Wukong players, that's an almost non-existent demographic before his rework in 25.2.

More than just Wukong players take part in Wukong threads and discussions. -_-

2 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I have been referring to the entire warframe playerbase this entire time, not just Wukong players.

It's a Wukong thread. Lets not forget where this originated from.

10 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

gladiator mods on the actual exalted melee weapon have never contributed to the set bonus

Which is absolutely inaccurate, and...

10 hours ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Stat sticking for the glad bonus on exalted weapons didn't really become a well known thing until 2019.

Which I believe to be inaccurate, Wukong was without a doubt the main frame that utilised the glad bonus. Valkyr couldn't really get and keep Hysteria's combo up reliably, Excalibur already had a very viable build with his Chromatic augment.

These frames didn't use it much, and it wasn't discussed much in relation to them. Wukong used it as a staple part of his build, and it was a staple part of discussions about his build.

[nooneyouknow13]

39 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

More than just Wukong players take part in Wukong threads and discussions. -_-

It's a Wukong thread. Lets not forget where this originated from.

Which is absolutely inaccurate, and...

Which I believe to be inaccurate, Wukong was without a doubt the main frame that utilised the glad bonus. Valkyr couldn't really get and keep Hysteria's combo up reliably, Excalibur already had a very viable build with his Chromatic augment.

These frames didn't use it much, and it wasn't discussed much in relation to them. Wukong used it as a staple part of his build, and it was a staple part of discussions about his build.

 

You know, I've just realized that exalted weapons weren't even directly moddable in 2017. I'm not even sure it was possible for them to not benefit from set mods, or even blood rush back then. As soon as they became moddable in update 23, the mods looked like this when placed on EWs:

And they looked like that until Fortuna dropped with the new sets. I'm finding quite a few posts from the first month after update 23 dropped where people are arguing over whether or not the set worked. I can't find a single patch note to support the idea that you were ever able to double dip the set bonus with anything other than a sentinel weapon though.

Looks like about as many people were aware of the bonus working on exalted weapons from their release until now, as currently realize that the armor strip from heat has to ramp up over 2 seconds before it provides the full 50%.

But now that I'm digging into it, I can't actually find any statements from DE on whether the bonuses should or should not work. So it's a coin flip on if we're stuck with the current set up.

Edited May 23, 2020 by nooneyouknow13

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I can't find a single patch note to support the idea that you were ever able to double dip the set bonus with anything other than a sentinel weapon though.

There's like, 50 million patch notes to go though. It's an exercise in futility, and clearly I don't actually recall very well the specific dates to help you. They absolutely did however. Gladiator Vice on both your melee and Exalted gave you double the set bonus, despite being the same mod. The change made it specifically so that Exalted ones didn't contribute.

Whilst I didn't take advantage of the double stacking, I did originally use Gladiator Mods on the Iron Staff itself for the bonus, and had to switch them over to my melee after the change.

4 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

But now that I'm digging into it, I can't actually find any statements from DE on whether the bonuses should or should not work. So it's a coin flip on if we're stuck with the current set up.

Hence me questioning it. If they didn't want it to work, it would have been very easy for them to just disable it entirely as they already do with many other mods.

[nooneyouknow13]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

There's like, 50 million patch notes to go though. It's an exercise in futility, and clearly I don't actually recall very well the specific dates to help you. They absolutely did however. Gladiator Vice on both your melee and Exalted gave you double the set bonus, despite being the same mod. The change made it specifically so that Exalted ones didn't contribute.

I mean, you just go to the wiki for each major patch, expand all of the fixes, and ctrl+f set with preceding and trailing spaces.

Quote

Fixed UI displaying double Set Mod bonuses when equipped on a regular and Exalted weapon. Set Mods only affect regular Melee weapons.

From 23.0.2 Is as close at it ever comes, and that was just causing the mods on your normal weapon to claim it has up to 2 more mods equipped than it did. It never actually provided the bonus, just like having the mods on a sentinel weapon without an active sentinel was showing the bonus and not applying for a long ass time as well. This note is also probably the sole source of "bonuses aren't supposed to work on exalteds".

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

I mean, you just go to the wiki for each major patch, expand all of the fixes, and ctrl+f set with preceding and trailing spaces.

And if it wasn't a major patch?

2 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

It never actually provided the bonus

If it never actually provided the bonus, how are we here?

[nooneyouknow13]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

And if it wasn't a major patch?

Have you ever looked at the patch notes on the wiki? Update 23 contains every single patch under the 23.x.xx numbers.

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

If it never actually provided the bonus, how are we here?

As in it showed at the time you had 5 mods equipped, but you only got the bonus for 3.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

Have you ever looked at the patch notes on the wiki? Update 23 contains every single patch under the 23.x.xx numbers.

Based on the wording, it sounded like you were just looking at the major patches.

*shrug*

7 minutes ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

As in it showed at the time you had 5 mods equipped, but you only got the bonus for 3.

As I said, I actually remember using the mods on my staff and not my melee weapon and still getting the bonus.

Plus that patch states set mods only affect regular melee, which is and has been inaccurate since release.