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Kingsmount

WF Endless content- Not hyperbole: Everyone at DE should play Risk of Rain 2, and why:

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Warframe has a half of an idea in seeming to want players to be able to play for hours long runs, while on the other hand simultaneously denying them by removing any and all incentive to do so.  Combined with another problem... Warframe just isn't very fun when it's dragged out.   10 minutes in a Warframe mission feels like an hour in Risk of Rain 2.  In Risk of Rain 2,  2 hours pass in the blink of an eye, effortlessly.   Warframe is constantly trying to strong-arm you into dragging out more playtime by force, via extremely heavy and over the top grind where it's pointless to grind a lot of new content, in favor of instead grinding platinum.  For example, an afternoon grinding relics and trading,  or 4 weeks grinding an awful game mode (Normal Sanctuary Onslaught, Elite is alright.) for Khora.  With the added factor that excess plat you make still can also go towards other plat purchases you can't earn ingame the same way at all.  (Which doesn't really make any sense- Plat should be a possible drop elsewhere as well, it only makes everything feel like it competes for your time with relics.  Or at least,  more sellable drops should be possibilities outside of relics.).

But in Risk of Rain 2,  you keep playing because you want to keep playing and every minute feels valuable wit ha positive reward structure instead of the near absence of one at all, or sometimes negative reward structures (Suiciding into liches for example, and the damn Nullifiers).   Combine that with the power fantasy element.  Warframe again has two minds,  it simultaneously wants to be ""Challenging"" while being a power fantasy by mixing cannonfodder in with bs that directly cripples players or has slapped on immunities.  In Risk of Rain, it's understood that you're supposed to become powerful, and it's a matter of endurance, and then end of level bosses.

I can't fully describe it.

Which is why, I unironically, with no maliciousness or any spite,  seriously without hyperbole... think everyone at DE should play some Risk of Rain 2, to feel for themselves the experience of the game and see what core design concepts they can be inspired by to strengthen Warframe's own experience.   Because as much as I love Warframe,  and I often find myself wishing I were playing Warframe instead, but with that level of engagement and similar elements,  Risk of Rain is my new siren.  Warframe feels like an abusive relationship that keeps manipulating me into staying, largely on the promise of past history. I don't want to jump ship, I want to see Warframe get better.

I'm not attacking Warframe, I'm inviting it to improve in areas that have always been lacking and that tons of players complain about the lack of content and direction (Late game content,  Endless gameplay).  It's an open area long in need of improvements that doesn't seem to have any inspiration for how to address it.

So, I say (to DE)-   Give Risk of Rain 2 a try, as a muse to give inspiration on how you might adapt things to improve lategame and endless content.  I genuinely believe that it would be very healthy to the Warframe if DE were to play it, causing some shifts in perspectives and demonstrating a game that nails the endless gameplay loop when Warframe's own endless loop feels like it's been under construction this whole time, on pause waiting for ideas on how to move forward with it.  So I'm just genuinely suggesting what I believe would be the perfect source of inspiration and motivation, for Warframe's sake, I'm not trying to divert attention or players away from Warframe by name dropping another game here, in fact the opposite in that I believe that the subsequent improvements to the game and perhaps even reinvigorated dev spirits would bring in more players and revitalize old playersBecause at the end of the day, I keep thinking I want to play Warframe, but feeling no motivation to actually do so.  Like craving pizza, but you don't have pizza... I simply don't really enjoy the game as-is anymore after having reached what is effectively endgame (Sortie grind, Arbitrations, Endless, and basically just raw grind), as it feels like priorities have been shifting towards monetization instead of a fun game.  I hope for the best.

Edited by Kingsmount
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I've never played Risk of Rain 2, But I have heard good things about it.

I do relate to feeling where you want to play but can't due to lack of meaningful rewards.

I feel that making Rewards is hard because you as a developer, Have to make players stronger without powercreep.

Several games however have struck a fine balance between power and difficulty but Warframe is a very strange game which amalgamates several types of gameplay into one, Games like Risk of Rain 2 can be a good example but I feel cannot be the only example.

You have a very good point tho.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, SpaceWalker0109 said:

I've never played Risk of Rain 2, But I have heard good things about it.

I do relate to feeling where you want to play but can't due to lack of meaningful rewards.

I feel that making Rewards is hard because you as a developer, Have to make players stronger without powercreep.

Several games however have struck a fine balance between power and difficulty but Warframe is a very strange game which amalgamates several types of gameplay into one, Games like Risk of Rain 2 can be a good example but I feel cannot be the only example.

You have a very good point tho.

 

 

 

 

 

Risk of Rain 2 is the basis because it handles balance well, though not in a way that is directly translatable to Warframe, however the main reason it's the context here are for the reasons that are translatable:

A) Endless vs Endless.   How either game handles endless content.  But why Warframe feels like a chore after 10 minutes vs why RoR2 effortlessly makes 2 hours disappear. 

B) Power Fantasy vs Power Fantasy.  How either game incorporates the power fantasy and still provides challenge.  RoR2 is Diablo-esque in that you butcher hoards of enemies but you can slip up and get spanked, and there are bosses. 

C) Characters with abilities.  Warframe definitely has a big advantage here with the large roster of "characters" and abilities.  Problem is with the way Warframe is, only a handful are usable in endless content. 

D) General gameplay 'beats' that Warframe could benefit from adapting to compare to, in endless modes.  This is more subjective, or at least harder to express.  You'd have to "feel" the difference for yourself to understand it, I think.    

I think it'd be easiest to incorporate more things into an ESO-like gamemode, but with larger levels and get rid of efficiency. Make each Efficiency collectable a reward that drops for everyone.  Add a secondary level scaling where within any given level the difficulty ramps up, then drops off again at the start of the next to ramp up again, but staggering upwards with a slope still, just a jagged slope. 

 

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I'm picking up what your putting down.

If Warframe could be be more fun in endless modes (Aswell as better rewards) I would probably play more.

 

 

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