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Joezone619

I dont like Ember's new 4th

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Seems almost not fire based at all... more of just... explosions...  i agree with removing world on fire and changeing play style but we we got in return... not worth it. roll the dice again DE (lil tip, reveal ideas first, before they're almost done and you cant stop)

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21 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Seems almost not fire based at all... more of just... explosions...  i agree with removing world on fire and changeing play style but we we got in return... not worth it. roll the dice again DE (lil tip, reveal ideas first, before they're almost done and you cant stop)

i had no issues with WoF and im not even really an ember player, it only killed lower level enemies, at the higher scale it was a CC at best usually, i think the embers speed running could have been fixed in different ways then changing her ability so much (more enemies able to disable power spread around levels, increase its cost per kill or something similar)

on defense on lower levels atleast ember had to keep moving to keep burning everything with WoF, the very few embers ive seen recently now just stand still on the high ground look here, meteors, look there meteors, look back there meteors

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25 minutes ago, Tokens210 said:

the very few embers ive seen recently now just stand still on the high ground look here, meteors, look there meteors, look back there meteors

this is what i mean. they tried to fix a problem with using 1 ability over and over with her... and ended up making it 3x worse.

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DE should have replaced Fire Blast with Immolation and seen how her kit was with buffed heat damage. There was no reason to remove Accelerant and World on Fire when the main problem with Ember was just the fact heat damage was weak. I dislike Ember's new kit entirely, and the loss of Flash Accelerant as an augment as well as that skill is quite sad. Adding a micromanaging part to the kit as well with the heat meter just makes it undesirable compared to any Warframe that fills the same role that doesn't have such a thing.

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3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I dislike Ember's new kit entirely, and the loss of Flash Accelerant as an augment as well as that skill is quite sad.

With the loss of Accelerant, Ember went from "Use 2 and 4 in succession repeatedly" to "Mash that 4 button". I also mourn the loss of Melee-oriented Ember with the constant damage/CC of WoF.

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25 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Adding a micromanaging part to the kit as well with the heat meter just makes it undesirable compared to any Warframe that fills the same role that doesn't have such a thing.

That sums up why I tried the Ember rework once and haven't touched her since. RIP my most played frame.

Inferno should've merged/absorbed/replaced weak redundant Fireball, but they delete her best ability Accelerant instead (along with her best augment). So sad.

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I never played Ember before the rework, but I like her now. She pretty mush has endless energy if you use the Exothermic augment for Inferno and Arcane Energize. Quick and easy armor strip/cc ability from Fire Blast. I don't really care about the damage reduction that Immolation provides since I run a 300hp build. I'm sure some people like that damage reduction though. Fire Ball is lame and I never use it, besides that I like her kit as a whole. 

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I love her kit now! She is so varied that I actually added 4 more load-out slots. Her CC game perfectly matches weapons like the tonkor, lenz, staticor and brahma, creating endless chaos on the battlefield. Add her 1 and 4 augments to a high parkour style of play and she just destroys and traps every enemy nicely.

Her defensive/survival style is just as good, especially running with her 2 and 3 augments. I use the veykor hek, mire (with syndicate mod) and telos akboltos to keep the squad buffed and tanky. 

If I'm going for all out chaos, I'll augment her 1 and 3, run with a high stat chance plague kripath scythe, with the aoe weapon damage per proc arcane, and level the field. For extra survivability, I'll add life strike or healing return to the mix.

Of course, these builds may not be to your liking but the point is her kit, and it's synergy, compliments so many styles with Ember. 

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her kit is fine, its her 4th specifically that seems way out of place. it seems like something atlas would have... throwing rocky meteors down from the sky... acutally i'd like that for his 4th, but back onto ember, i dont want world on fire back. i want something else but not what we got currently.

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I'm not a fan of the 2nd / 3rd / 4th fake synergy. The energy drain of her 2nd and the energy cost of her 3rd make it not really fun to play. If you mod for efficiency and energy pool and strength and range you don't really have mod slot left for an augment

I like to play with growing power, and use her 4 first to proc it, then use her 1st with augment to get a massive damage boost  and use a weapon.

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My 2 gripes with ember, : the loss of accelerant+augment and the fact that her damage mitigation turns into a energy guzzling ability when the majority of other frames with dmg mitigation abilities can just cast and forget, or better cast and refresh.

If nothing else her 2 shouldn't have exponential scaling energy drain but a capped amount that goes down to a value between 1.25-2.5 per second at 175 efficiency.

 

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I really like the new Ember, personally, including the theme of her 4th ability. Yes, it's flaming comets but they still mostly set people on fire. I like her fire shield, as well, especially the "overheat" dynamic. Personally, I wish they'd leaned on it harder and gone the route of the Vermintide 2 Fire Mage. Turn heat into a risk/reward resource. Have Heat build from taking damage, remove the energy cost of her 3 and 4 abilities and have them cost heat instead, have Ember take damage rather than losing energy when overheated. But either way, though, it's made for a nice dynamic as it is. If I lean into abilities too much, Ember overheats so I need to dump heat. If I don't, I start taking damage so I need to build up more heat.

Far as I'm concerned, it's a lot better than her old design.

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4 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Far as I'm concerned, it's a lot better than her old design.

oh yeah its waay better then before, she was next to useless before and now shes actually worth playing. my issue with it is the 4th being soo out of place. embers the queen of fire, not cosmic stuff, or meteors.

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2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

oh yeah its waay better then before, she was next to useless before and now shes actually worth playing. my issue with it is the 4th being soo out of place. embers the queen of fire, not cosmic stuff, or meteors.

It's still fire, though. It's more useful for setting people on fire and stripping armour than doing raw damage, at least in Lich missions in my experience.

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i still don't like it. it doesn't feel fire. a hunk of rock falling from the sky? sure it sets them on fire but in my opinion they only added that in to say "oh its still ember theres fire look" but meteorites don't cause fire when they land... they explode.

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I'm someone who's mained Ember since 2014. She was the first frame I built and the first Prime I built. I actually really like her rework.

Addressing some of the things people have said in this thread: Immolation was something she desperately needed to survive in higher level missions (before I had to run the Knockdown WoF augment just to stay alive, but even that only went so far and I'd usually have to switch to a tankier frame anyway), and is basically a better version of her old Overheat ability since at the lowest heat level it's giving the old max Overheat reduction (40%) and at max giving 90% reduction while also increasing ability strength. The reason why it's not a set and forget ability like other DR abilities is that it's also giving you that damage increase. I've always run max efficiency on Ember (especially because of the awful nerf they originally gave WoF) so I don't even really notice the energy drain when it reaches 90% and just press 3 whenever I need to.

Speaking of which, Fire Blast replaces my reliance on the old Knockdown augment since it always knocks enemies down now, and she doesn't need Accelerant anymore when Fire Blast will be getting rid of 100% of enemy armor and Immolation + her passive bonus allows her damage to scale much higher than it did before with Accelerant. I can actually kill things in level 90+ missions whereas before her damage fell off hard outside the star chart.

As for Inferno... I think it's really cool. It's really satisfying, has a fast cast, and it's much more active of an ability than WoF was. Instead of leaving WoF on as much as possible I actually have to consider where to aim Inferno (not that much because it's auto-target, but still). The trade off of it not hitting everything through walls in a 360° area is again, it can actually kill outside of the star chart now. Which is a huge change. Aesthetically, I think it's fine. It reminds me of the Meteor spell in Final Fantasy which always looked more like raining fireballs and fits in with Ember being a "spellcaster" frame. In-game it's the same way where they look like hunks of molten material rather than actual meteors and they cause fiery eruptions from the ground rather than "explosions." In that sense it fits really well thematically.

The only things I don't like about the rework are that they removed both the lingering fire effect from Fireball which was the only utility it had and also removed the lingering fire wall from Fire Blast which provided some area denial capabilities.

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3 hours ago, Fireshock said:

I'm someone who's mained Ember since 2014. She was the first frame I built and the first Prime I built. I actually really like her rework.

to be clear its not her new kit, or her rework i have the problem with. its the 4th seemingly having little to no relation to fire. what ember is based on, yes it sets them on fire IF they survive, but even still they tried to fix the problem with people only using her 4th.,.. multiple times... and failed on each one, this most recent rework is the best attempt so far but its still not quite there yet.

they should change her 4th only slightly to rain down fire balls, or cause fire eruptions from the ground beneath the enemies. it would function more or less the same, and appear more fire based then a hunk of rock falling from not the sky.

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2 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

to be clear its not her new kit, or her rework i have the problem with. its the 4th seemingly having little to no relation to fire. what ember is based on, yes it sets them on fire IF they survive, but even still they tried to fix the problem with people only using her 4th.,.. multiple times... and failed on each one, this most recent rework is the best attempt so far but its still not quite there yet.

they should change her 4th only slightly to rain down fire balls, or cause fire eruptions from the ground beneath the enemies. it would function more or less the same, and appear more fire based then a hunk of rock falling from not the sky.

I'm aware, but I also wanted to address some of the complaints people had in the thread regarding her rework at the same time.

Regarding just the aesthetics I mentioned my opinions regarding it fitting thematically. I consider Ember a "spellcaster" frame (she has the typical "Fireball" spell and now "Flame Armor") so having something similar to the fiery Meteor from Final Fantasy feels fitting to me. They don't just look like rocks either, they look molten in appearance and are also on fire. Then when they land they do create fire eruptions.

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I would be fine with them changing the meteors to be fireballs like you're suggesting but I'm also fine with it the way it is right now and think it's thematically appropriate.

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11 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Well they’re not changing it back so deal with it.

Well, this is what, her 4th 4th now? 

We can hope there'll replace it with something better eventually.

It does suck that she lost accelerant and a lot of her damage viability.

She used to be so good for fissure farming and could even do sorties, if you had a mind too.

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