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[Saryn] Give Me Some Sugar! <3


Vardog
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Hello everyone, first of all I am fairly new to the game myself thus I'm not THAT experienced but after playing Saryn for a while and seeing what some other frames can do I can't help but feel that Saryn could use some rework on her skills.

 

Being a semi-tanky frame Saryn seems to lack the defensive/evasive capabilities at later levels and even with a Shield/HP/Armor build she dies quite fast in tough situations because of the lack of skills take could take the heat away from you. Yes, I know we have Molt but bear with me for a second, I'll try to go through every ability of hers.

 

 

Venom:

 

Great concept for an ability but I think the mechanic behind it could be simplified a bit, I mean, if you want to maximize it's use first you have to attach Spores to the primary target, then shoot ALL of them, spread the Spores to a group of enemies and then shoot them again, not to mention that if someone kills that group of mobs with an AoE then all of your work was for nothing. I think that ability has too many variables considering the damage output is quite low in regard to the time it needs to take full effect.

 

At lower levels the enemies die too fast for the ability to take effect at all, at higher levels the damage output is not significant enough.

 

I think the mechanic could be simplified by making the spores spread by themselves, kind of like a virus, if a creature gets close enough to the primary target, then all you have to do is shoot those spores for extra damage. Also, the dot damage could be 'condensed' into a shorter amount of time to ensure that the ability can be used to it's full effect.

 

 

 

 

 

Molt:

 

Again, great ability to have at low levels but as you progress the skill doesn't scale very well and becomes less and less useful, which I think should be the opposite seeing as this is her only 'defensive' ability.

At higher levels Molt is destroyed almost instantly not helping very much if at all. This skill could really be great if it only didn't die so easily.

 

My solution would be either making it only time based, with no Shields/HP or making  Molt's Shield/HP scale with enemy levels so it doesn't become useless at higher levels. Or maybe change the mechanic completely and make it a semi-passive, when Saryn takes fatal damage, instead of dying she sheds skin , letting her survive in an injured state, while the dead skin left behind let's her escape and recover.

 

 

 

 

Contagion:

 

Well, probably my least used skill. Fun to use at lower levels when enemies don't hit that hard but later on popping this skill and going into a group of enemies means certain death. Unfortunately, without any sort of damage reduction aside from Warframe mods Saryn doesn't seem to have many opportunities to use this skill effectively at higher levels.

 

I think this skill could perhaps live up to it's name if it gave Saryn some kind of debuff on hit enemies, perhaps a reduced Damage/Armor debuff, a disease of some kind that spreads to nearby targets. Or just give Saryn bonus damage reduction and/or poison resistance while the skill is active.

 

 

 

 

 

Miasma:

 

Probably her most used skill and not without a reason, this skill is easy to use and deals reasonable amounts of damage, plus it gives a short stun to the enemies but once again, as the enemy levels grow higher, it's potency lowers. I don't have much problems with this skill but I think it could scale better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, I think Saryn is a solid frame by design but the skills could use a rework, the biggest problem is that the skills don't scale very well with enemy levels, leaving Saryn with only her weapon and perhaps Venom. Compared to other tanky frames like Frost or Rhino which have useful abilities, regardless of the enemy level, Saryn doesn't seem to have any ability that is effective both at low and high levels, at least not nearly as effective as the skills of Frost and Rhino.

 

 

 

PS. Excause my poor english but it's not my primary language. I tried to convey my thoughts as well as I could.

 

Thank you for reading.

Edited by Vardog
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Venom isn't really useful in lower levels, but after reaching a level where enemies don't die to every AOE in one shot, it makes dealing with groups easier. Poison damage ignores armor.

 

Both Molt and Decoy suffer from the same problem. But Molt is instant cast and if the enemies concentrate their attacks on the molt for even half a second, it easily saves your life.

 

Contagion helps a lot with throwing weapons, and with other melee weapons when they don't one shot the enemies without it anymore, or against heavies. Getting to melee range is easy with for example Miasma or Shade's ghost.

 

Miasma, like all damaging fourth abilities stop being so useful after the enemies are high enough to not die in one cast. But comparing the damage to for example Overload and Crush (poison is armor ignoring again), it's a LOT better. Plus, it has the four second stun which is something similar to casting Rhino Stomp.

 

EDIT: all in all, Saryn is one of the most balanced frames there are.

Edited by Naftal
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Here are my thoughts.

 

Venom: Make it a cone AoE that gets spores on everything. Increase the DoT and make the DoT happen faster.

 

Moult: Make it time based and make it completely invincible.

 

Contagion: Make it into a pseudo-Acrid buff. All melee and guns get a poison armor ignoring DoT that can be stacked much like Acrid that scale accordingly. This should work for her only. This would make the skill extremely useful and everyone would love it.

 

Miasma: Make it do much more damage and ignore shielding.

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Venom:

I think that ability has too many variables considering the damage output is quite low in regard to the time it needs to take full effect.

At lower levels the enemies die too fast for the ability to take effect at all, at higher levels the damage output is not significant enough.

 

 

Molt:

My solution would be either making it only time based, with no Shields/HP or making  Molt's Shield/HP scale with enemy levels so it doesn't become useless at higher levels.

 

 

Contagion:

I think this skill could perhaps live up to it's name if it gave Saryn some kind of debuff on hit enemies, perhaps a reduced Damage/Armor debuff, a disease of some kind that spreads to nearby targets. Or just give Saryn bonus damage reduction and/or poison resistance while the skill is active.

 

 

Miasma:

Probably her most used skill and not without a reason, this skill is easy to use and deals reasonable amounts of damage, plus it gives a short stun to the enemies but once again, as the enemy levels grow higher, it's potency lowers. I don't have much problems with this skill but I think it could scale better.

Venom actually has more damage output potential than Miasma. 

the difference, is that Miasma deals it's damage over ~5 seconds, while Venom is ~15 seconds. but, the potential damage output of the spores is considerably higher, it's something to think about. 

 

my biggest complaint about Venom like almost all powers, is that you need to stand still and swing your arm to cast them. in a Fast-Paced game, standing still for more than a second out in the open is asking to be killed. 

 

 

i've never heard anyone suggest Decoys working like that, hmm. scaling with levels so that way it's always decent, seems rather fair. just remember to include Loki in that, otherwise we'll have a lot of angry Slowki's with pitchforks ;)

 

 

Contagion has enough damage to help you outright kill an enemy before they hit you - if you're using a Charge Attack weapon.

unfortunately, due to design, Charge Attack weapons get a MASSIVE bonus, while quick weapons, not so much.

i wouldn't say no to like 20% less damage taken while active, though. and maybe knockdown resistance(not immunity, just a decent resistance chance).

 

 

i've never felt Miasma loses it's effectiveness in higher levels. it's certainly more focused on damage output, but i can expect to kill everything up to level 300 something, so it will always thin out the enemy count. and at higher levels, i mainly use it for that stun, which is really useful IMO. even if it's only a few seconds, that's a few seconds of free headshots.

 

 

Contagion: Make it into a pseudo-Acrid buff. All melee and guns get a poison armor ignoring DoT that can be stacked much like Acrid that scale accordingly. This should work for her only. This would make the skill extremely useful and everyone would love it.

interesting. i'd still keep it as melee only, though. but adding small poison DoT's that will stack would be a lot more balanced than it is now. currently only Charge Attacks really get much of any benefit. but stacking DoT's would mean both types would get large benefits. quick attacks stacking a lot of tiny DoT's, Charge Attacks one or two big DoT's.

that paired with some knockdown resistance(once again, decent chance, not immunity), i'd probably actually have that equipped all the time then. 

 

 

EDIT: all in all, Saryn is one of the most balanced frames there are.

she certainly is, yes. like Rhino, overall, quite well rounded.

 

 

edit:

damn, i forgot the most important part(s) again. shame on me.

 

Saryn Master Race

Saryn 4 Laif

;)

Edited by taiiat
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Venom actually has more damage output potential than Miasma. 

the difference, is that Miasma deals it's damage over ~5 seconds, while Venom is ~15 seconds. but, the potential damage output of the spores is considerably higher, it's something to think about. 

 

my biggest complaint about Venom like almost all powers, is that you need to stand still and swing your arm to cast them. in a Fast-Paced game, standing still for more than a second out in the open is asking to be killed. 

 

 

i've never heard anyone suggest Decoys working like that, hmm. scaling with levels so that way it's always decent, seems rather fair. just remember to include Loki in that, otherwise we'll have a lot of angry Slowki's with pitchforks ;)

 

 

Contagion has enough damage to help you outright kill an enemy before they hit you - if you're using a Charge Attack weapon.

unfortunately, due to design, Charge Attack weapons get a MASSIVE bonus, while quick weapons, not so much.

i wouldn't say no to like 20% less damage taken while active, though. and maybe knockdown resistance(not immunity, just a decent resistance chance).

 

 

i've never felt Miasma loses it's effectiveness in higher levels. it's certainly more focused on damage output, but i can expect to kill everything up to level 300 something, so it will always thin out the enemy count. and at higher levels, i mainly use it for that stun, which is really useful IMO. even if it's only a few seconds, that's a few seconds of free headshots.

 

 

interesting. i'd still keep it as melee only, though. but adding small poison DoT's that will stack would be a lot more balanced than it is now. currently only Charge Attacks really get much of any benefit. but stacking DoT's would mean both types would get large benefits. quick attacks stacking a lot of tiny DoT's, Charge Attacks one or two big DoT's.

that paired with some knockdown resistance(once again, decent chance, not immunity), i'd probably actually have that equipped all the time then. 

 

 

she certainly is, yes. like Rhino, overall, quite well rounded.

 

 

edit:

damn, i forgot the most important part(s) again. shame on me.

 

Saryn Master Race

Saryn 4 Laif

;)

I prefer the Chicken to the Snake.

 

The one reason I don't play Saryn anymore is because her idle's contradict her look and her personality.

 

She looks like royalty yet she does combat poses instead of remaining nonchalant and reticent.

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It's true that Venom has the potential to outperform Miasma at higher levels but my point was that it takes too much time and 'effort' to use it to the fullest. I agree that it could be made so it can be cast while moving, like Molt, would certainly make Venom better and more fun to use.

 

I'm not doubting Contagion's damage boost, it's just that by the time you run up to an enemy, if it's a group of Grineer/Corpus, they'll have your shields and half of HP down before you start swinging. I don't the risk/reward balance for that skill is good enough, you're also right about it not working as well with melee as it does with charge. The DoT stacking idea is really nice.

 

I think a lot of Saryn issues could be solved  by making Molt useful at higher levels at the very least.

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Saryn does need some help. In its current nerfed form Venom is pretty much useless and there have been multiple threads asking to fix the performance issues it caused without sacrificing the interesting mechanic it had, when it was possible to stack spores on enemies.

Molt indeed gets destroyed too quickly against higher level enemies.

And the problem with Contagion is that while the damage boost it provides is nice there aren't many situations where it can be used. Part of the issue is the viability of melee in general but mostly it's because the skill lacks any mobility, CC or damage mitigation aspects that would allow Saryn to charge in and really make use of that extra damage. Maybe if Molt is improved it would also allow Saryn to make better use of Contagion as the decoy draws fire away from her.

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