Fix Wukong's exalted weapons with Range mods

[kwlingo]

I came to this conclusion after finding out that they changed how Mag's pull works with power strength. Which makes sense that power strength should effect the pull distance and many other ability as where range should effect some other abilities also.

I've been wondering why they nerfed Wukong's staff even in the range department. To a few frame's range mods does benefit the exalted ability but now all. Like many have stated the exalted weapons should be as powerful or more than the regular melee or primary weapons. After the reduction in the Wukong legendary staff in strength and range, I don't remember every using the exalted staff any longer over my melee which allows for Condition Overload, Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds. Many weapons already clear groups of enemies much quicker Wukong's staff. I was thinking a way to balance this out would be to have range mods effect the added range to the weapons as it does to his 3rd ability.

Example: How range is applied to staff base range (3.5m from wiki) They must have updated the range for his staff. I remember it was not 3.5 m.

• Range 40% = + .4 m
• Range 100% = + 1 m
• Range 150% = + 1.5 m
• Max Range 280% = + 2.8 m (total range = 9.3 m with Primed Reach)

As creating more range equates to a weaker power strength, or vice versa too much power equates to less range additive.

Also, I believe this should be how Excalibur's exalted works as well.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by kwlingo

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

I want... a max of 10 to 15m reach on iron staff personally.

It used to scale on combo meter so..

Range bonus = 1+(modified range stat %)x(Current combo level.

So at 100% base range and max combo of 12, you would have a extra 12m of range. Enough to cap out without primed reach.

At 200% range the per combo level is obviously doubled, hitting +24m and easily surpassing the suggested caps at combo12.

The longest reach you can get in the game is around 10m. It takes Preach, a riven, and springloaded to achieve. So giving the legendary staff used to measure the depth of a flooded ocean a measily 15m max innate range would be a pittance in respect.

Baruuks waves can hit 20m away, and usually hit far harder than is easily possible with iron staff.. 

So why not?

I do like your idea btw. I do think having extraordinary reach even without range mods should be the key gimmick to the Iron staff.

Edited May 25, 2020 by (PS4)ForNoPurpose

[kwlingo]

3 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

I do like your idea btw. I do think having extraordinary reach even without range mods should be the key gimmick to the Iron staff.

This would be a nice passive on staff but possibly half of the combo in range

Range bonus = base + (range % x (.5 x (1 - combo))  {I'm using the (1- combo) as how Blood Rush and Weeping wounds calculations they tend to use in combo multiplier mods.}

24m... that's too OP, 15m max would be nice. 24m will cause afk standing in one spot spamming room clear melee attacks, while 15 meter will still create running around to kill enemies out of range.

I believe Excal and Barruk's range should be brought to 10-15m unless equipped with range mods to increase distance.

Edited May 26, 2020 by kwlingo

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, kwlingo said:

24m will cause afk standing in one spot spamming room clear melee attacks

Not necessarily, at higher ranges you tend to miss enemies you think you would hit due to how the melee hitbox works, especially with the staff.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/wTm3Ijk

Plus you can't swing through walls now as well.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I just want it to actually be able to kill things at levels higher than 60.

[Snowpoint-Prime]

I had Idea for this I'll share here:

 

Problem: Defy does near Zero damage to enemies around Lv100. Also, it rag-dolls the enemies who are hit. He is already good at not dying, so that part of the ability is also useless.

Problem: With Melee 3.0 Iron Staff is no longer special (was essentially a preview when reworked) and now normal melee weapons can out preform without draining energy.

 

Solution: Augment for defy. 1. Pulls enemies in rather than pushing them away. 2. Applies a debuff that causes Iron Staff to deal Double Damage to those enemies. (or however much is needed to actually kill stuff. maybe bonus damage scales with power strength, but Iron Staff base damage already scales with Power.)

 

1. Creates synergy between his abilities.

2. Gives his Exalted Weapon a unique trait that makes it feel special.

3. Allows both abilities to do the damage needed to be relevant in Higher Levels.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Snowpoint-Prime

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

3 hours ago, Snowpoint-Prime said:

I had Idea for this I'll share here:

 

Problem: Defy does near Zero damage to enemies around Lv100. Also, it rag-dolls the enemies who are hit. He is already good at not dying, so that part of the ability is also useless.

Problem: With Melee 3.0 Iron Staff is no longer special (was essentially a preview when reworked) and now normal melee weapons can out preform without draining energy.

 

Solution: Augment for defy. 1. Pulls enemies in rather than pushing them away. 2. Applies a debuff that causes Iron Staff to deal Double Damage to those enemies. (or however much is needed to actually kill stuff. maybe bonus damage scales with power strength, but Iron Staff base damage already scales with Power.)

 

1. Creates synergy between his abilities.

2. Gives his Exalted Weapon a unique trait that makes it feel special.

3. Allows both abilities to do the damage needed to be relevant in Higher Levels.

 

I like the defy vacuum one.

Kinda side steps for iron staff but it would be good on any melee.

I tried max tek iron staff.. the slam vacuum you can get is lethal and furys block combo spams slams.

 

I would rather have a iron staff that is really good in the first place tho. Without needing augments.. but considering the tendency of exaulted melee needing a augment i have low hopes.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

21 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I just want it to actually be able to kill things at levels higher than 60.

i still want to know your build so i can understound how you have problems with killing things at those level ranges...  also, @DeMonkey, i want to apologize for assuming you had said that iron staff fell off at level 75... it was this guy, not you.  all i want to say on the matter, i dont want to get into any more needless debates on wukong at this time.  i just want to get along at this point

[Xepthrichros]

21 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I just want it to actually be able to kill things at levels higher than 60.

And yet i have no issues with anything above 60 using his iron staff. Then again, I see no reason to share builds cos that's how nerfs happen.

>Share how to be strong.

>Everyone follows, and a "meta" starts forming

>The nerf squad begins shouting.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

i still want to know your build so i can understound how you have problems with killing things at those level ranges...  also, @DeMonkey, i want to apologize for assuming you had said that iron staff fell off at level 75... it was this guy, not you.  all i want to say on the matter, i dont want to get into any more needless debates on wukong at this time.  i just want to get along at this point

We’re not going to get along until you recognize how incredibly weak Iron Staff is.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Xepthrichros said:

And yet i have no issues with anything above 60 using his iron staff. Then again, I see no reason to share builds cos that's how nerfs happen.

>Share how to be strong.

>Everyone follows, and a "meta" starts forming

>The nerf squad begins shouting.

They already nerfed it. It takes 5x longer for it to kill level 100 enemies than it did before melee 3.0.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

8 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

We’re not going to get along until you recognize how incredibly weak Iron Staff is.

the majority of that post wasnt aimed at you gears.  the only part that was, was my statement of wanting to know your build, because i can kill lvl 140 enemies with little effort, yet you are having issues killing lvl 60 enemies, and im trying to wrap my head around how

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

the majority of that post wasnt aimed at you gears.  the only part that was, was my statement of wanting to know your build, because i can kill lvl 140 enemies with little effort, yet you are having issues killing lvl 60 enemies, and im trying to wrap my head around how

I’m beginning to think what you and I consider to be “little effort” to be drastically different.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m beginning to think what you and I consider to be “little effort” to be drastically different.

yeah, i agree, considering i can kill lvl 140 enemies in as little as 3-7 seconds.  literally no problem for me ...  want proof?  here... i even include my build, which ive asked you for at least twice now, yet you havnt bothered to show or tell me yours

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by (XB1)Neon Lights9212

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

yeah, i agree, considering i can kill lvl 140 enemies in as little as 3-7 seconds.  literally no problem for me ...  want proof?  here... i even include my build, which ive asked you for at least twice now, yet you havnt bothered to show or tell me yours

 

 

That performance is terrible. 

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That performance is terrible. 

maybe if you compare it to trying to kill lvl 200+ enemies than yeah,  but compared to what you're complaining about, far from it

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

maybe if you compare it to trying to kill lvl 200+ enemies than yeah,  but compared to what you're complaining about, far from it

No like that performance is genuinely terrible. It should’ve killed the enemies over 20 hits ago. How do you think that kind of performance is acceptable for an exalted weapon?

[ZarTham]

14 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

yeah, i agree, considering i can kill lvl 140 enemies in as little as 3-7 seconds.  literally no problem for me ...  want proof?  here... i even include my build, which ive asked you for at least twice now, yet you havnt bothered to show or tell me yours

 

 

Honestly, you can improve that build, the amount of hits you're needing to take them out is making my Wukong cry in pain.. Go back to the simulacrum.

 

Now on a serious note, I have to sacrifice range for this build (haha, less range, so much for the Iron Staff's lore...), that means that I have to be closer to mobs, which is a risk, especially against nuller's bubbles. Do I still think it is trash? Yes, as it is just a staff... Despite being an exalted weapon, the only thing it has attached to it is energy drain. Regular melee's make use of the combo counter, they can make use of Blood Rush and they can be equipped with Rivens, unlike the Iron Staff, and considering how easy it is to maintain combo, the Iron Staff is way below some regular melee weapons. Ever since melee 3.0 came out I just gave it back to Ao Guang, maybe he can use it as a decoration.

Edited May 29, 2020 by ZarTham

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

@ZarTham @(XB1)NeonLights57

Personally I went with Steel Charge + Arcane Fury to replace any pure Melee Damage mod you want to slot in on Iron Staff, went with only Condition Overload on Iron Staff’s build with Sacrificial Steel + Primal Rage with Viral/Heat. I might have to revisit my build since the status changes, though, but I feel like that’s the best I could do in pushing IronStaff/PrimalFury’s output on a consistent basis without having to sacrifice Primed Reach on Iron Staff’s mod build.

Prior to Melee Damage 3.0, my build was meant to emphasize on Bleed procs that could happen with Iron Staff. Now, dps/ttk is mostly emphasized on Viral/Heat stacking, so it’s been altered to how typical melee works now.

edit: I’m at work right now (essential worker and all), but I’ll try to provide screenshots of my WuKong and Iron Staff build if interested. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[ZarTham]

On 2020-05-29 at 6:04 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

@ZarTham @(XB1)NeonLights57

Personally I went with Steel Charge + Arcane Fury to replace any pure Melee Damage mod you want to slot in on Iron Staff, went with only Condition Overload on Iron Staff’s build with Sacrificial Steel + Primal Rage with Viral/Heat. I might have to revisit my build since the status changes, though, but I feel like that’s the best I could do in pushing IronStaff/PrimalFury’s output on a consistent basis without having to sacrifice Primed Reach on Iron Staff’s mod build.

Prior to Melee Damage 3.0, my build was meant to emphasize on Bleed procs that could happen with Iron Staff. Now, dps/ttk is mostly emphasized on Viral/Heat stacking, so it’s been altered to how typical melee works now.

edit: I’m at work right now (essential worker and all), but I’ll try to provide screenshots of my WuKong and Iron Staff build if interested. 

Thanks but tbh, I don't even bother, sure it's cool every now and then to smack mobs with the staff, but I've reach a point where I just use my regular melee.

 

As for the topic, a range boost would definitely not be the best, but it would certainly open a door for more improved builds in terms of damage, this would be highly beneficial IF the Staff made use of the Combo Counter's damage multiplier and IF the staff could hit through mobs, more range, more mobs to hit, more damage (sort of, as @DeMonkey pointed out), but the staff doesn't benefit from neither, so.... currently it's useless (unless you're like me and doesn't use Primed Reach). IMO limited to 8~10 meters max, with Primed Reach.

I do not agree with another Augment, I already use 2 augments on Wukong, Primal Rage and Enveloping Cloud (don't bash me, I'm just trying to give something back to the squad), I would prefer to not have to use a 3rd one.

Regarding Defy's damage, yep, it sucks, but at later levels I do not expect it to do much damage, from my POV at higher levels it is only supposed to ragdoll mobs away from what you are trying to protect or to give some space around you in case you need (I know this doesn't make sense since we can just cloud away and with Enveloping Cloud squad members can just pull back safely while invisible, but, let's be honest, what moron uses Enveloping Cloud?). Defy could buff allies with dmg boost/x% dmg reduction from mobs, this should require Wukong to convert damage taken, also, wasn't Defy supposed to taunt enemies? Doesn't seem to be working as it should. I find it amazing that in a game that is co-op DE didn't add jack S#&$ to Wukong's arsenal to help the squad when they reworked him.

Rework the Celestial Twin, in my perspective, it is useless as it currently stands, no need to talk about the AI... It has issues dealing with weapons that needs to be charged, despite only needing a slip second to charge and fire a weapon, it takes him 2/3 seconds to do so, it also doesn't seem to know when it should reload a weapon, as I have seen my Clone reloading right after a previous reload without firing a shot, it doesn't make use of the weapon's full ammo before reloading, doesn't make use of melee's modded attack speed and for last but not least, doesn't seem to be aware or its surroundings as it tends to attack mobs that are further, now, I do not expect DE to make improvements regarding its AI, personally, I would rather have something like Mirage's Illusions, as I have been mentioning since the rework came out, side-by-side Wukong with a HP boost and some dmg boost to its arsenal (but not by much), the staff should get a higher boost (unless DE makes it benefit the combo damage multiplier). I'd take this over the range increase.

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by ZarTham

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

i will not deny that my build isnt perfect, nor is it the best i can do. but it does what i need it to do, for the type of missions i run on a regular bases, i use level 140 corrupt bombards and corrupt gunners as a bases for how long it will take me to kill things of the standard mission range.  the speed that i killed them in the vid i posted?  obviously, i will agree that its not the best, but if i kill them at that speed at level 140, than anything half that wont last all of 2 seconds at worst.  as i also showed in the video.  as ive asked before gears, whats your build that has you struggling to kill anything above level 60?  and why do you say i should have been able to kill them faster if you have issues at killing enemies half that level?

 

you're giving me contradictory info friend.  cause if you can kill those specific enemies at that level range far faster than i was, than how do you call what you should potentially be doing to things half that level a problem?  im already killing them pretty quickly in my vid,  if you are struggling with enemies at level 60, than you have me utterly confused about what you are having problems with

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

18 hours ago, ZarTham said:

Honestly, you can improve that build, the amount of hits you're needing to take them out is making my Wukong cry in pain.. Go back to the simulacrum.

 

Now on a serious note, I have to sacrifice range for this build (haha, less range, so much for the Iron Staff's lore...), that means that I have to be closer to mobs, which is a risk, especially against nuller's bubbles. Do I still think it is trash? Yes, as it is just a staff... Despite being an exalted weapon, the only thing it has attached to it is energy drain. Regular melee's make use of the combo counter, they can make use of Blood Rush and they can be equipped with Rivens, unlike the Iron Staff, and considering how easy it is to maintain combo, the Iron Staff is way below some regular melee weapons. Ever since melee 3.0 came out I just gave it back to Ao Guang, maybe he can use it as a decoration.

i appreciate the demonstration, something gears seems to have a hard time doing for me,  you actually gave me something to work off of to prove that my build needs some work. if you wouldnt mind me asking, what is your iron staff build?  id like to know, anything to make mine stronger.  to note, i dont think iron staff if the best weapon, far from it, but your video does prove that its still a strong weapon to use. you wasted level 160 corrupt gunners and bombards faster than i could kill the same enemies at lvl 140.  at that point, its just the energy drain (which my wukong build is designed to mitigate to the point of it being a non issue for me) and the weapon type

[DeMonkey]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

at that point, its just the energy drain (which my wukong build is designed to mitigate to the point of it being a non issue for me)

Everyone's Wukong build is designed to be energy efficient. 

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Everyone's Wukong build is designed to be energy efficient. 

yeah, some just dont use primed flow for some reason lol.  

[ZarTham]

14 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

i appreciate the demonstration, something gears seems to have a hard time doing for me,  you actually gave me something to work off of to prove that my build needs some work. if you wouldnt mind me asking, what is your iron staff build?  id like to know, anything to make mine stronger.  to note, i dont think iron staff if the best weapon, far from it, but your video does prove that its still a strong weapon to use. you wasted level 160 corrupt gunners and bombards faster than i could kill the same enemies at lvl 140.  at that point, its just the energy drain (which my wukong build is designed to mitigate to the point of it being a non issue for me) and the weapon type

Check what Lei-Lei_34 said, it's pretty much on par with what I'm using. The only difference, I'm using Primed Pressure Point instead of Primed Reach, but tbh, the benefit from Primed Pressure Point is almost negligible. Also, some people claim to have great results with Electricity instead of Heat, personally I'm with Heat but see what suits you better.

Edited May 30, 2020 by ZarTham