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Warframe VS Warhammer 40k


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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I think you quoted the wrong post of mine

Corpus do indeed have powerful shields for capital ships -- able to stalemate against Balor Formorians -- but infantry shields are quite weak (proportionally weak), often only about as durable as the guy inside. They would only give any level of protection against the Imperial lasergun and maybe the autogun, while bolters would tear through them just like Tenno weapons

actually no the corpus shild are used to block and bownce away  kinetic force if they're power is proportional to the impact that also de added the motive they die fast is because de added a weak point they don't have on lore the haead shoot shouldn'tgive double damage but instead block by the helmet that's why they're helmets pop off when hit

Edited by (PS4)yokai1235
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3 hours ago, Corvid said:

My only stance is that weapons in Warframe are sufficiently stronger than modern small arms that to equivocate the two is disingenuous.

Ok if this is where out miscommunication is taking place, I would like to apologize for hostilities. In my original post i intended (and apparently failed) to equivocate the Grakata and Hind to the Imperial autogun. In 40k it's generally accepted that yes, the autogun is probably better than an M16 or MP5, but the lasgun and the bolter are themselves far better than any of the above

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On 2020-06-17 at 7:20 PM, elpeleq42 said:

One thing I had forgotten to mention about railjacks: they can make blackholes. One of those could easilly destroy ships much larger than it.

That isn't uncommon for ships in the Warhammer 40k universe as well. Course most of those ships are also huge and some of the basic shells some of those huge ships fire can crack planets and moons causing extinction events, but those aren't even what they fire for actual relatively common events they perform called suitably Exterminatus, where they make sure a planet is either blown to atoms or otherwise freed of the itchy wet skin of life. Eldar ship armament tends to be more closely matched to our ship Void abilities as per your example, being heavy duty psykers and their ships being made out of psychic reactive materials boosting that even more and their control of blackhole tech being to the degree that one of their ancient members (still around in the modern setting) sent his enemies small present boxes with fully active blackholes inside to prove points.

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On 2020-06-17 at 7:20 PM, elpeleq42 said:

One thing I had forgotten to mention about railjacks: they can make blackholes. One of those could easilly destroy ships much larger than it.

yes and they can't even kill crewships the size of a imperial torpedo

and the fact is that warframe are pretty weak since we know that they are made of flesh and thus should be easily penetrated by any kind of monomolecular style weapons such as shurikens and splinter weapons and even chain swords to an extent.

on the topic of melee weapons warframe really does not have any kind of powered weapons that can mach the power of their imperial counterparts.Such as the power sword,axe mauls and other non imperial weapons such as the transonic blade and phase swords.

And that not counting on the biggest weakness of warframes:The lack of psychic defense since the tenno are really not that skilled at void stuff compared to psykers since even an Beta class psykers can do all kind of nasty stuff to you and we dont know how the transference stuff works specifically but we know that it can be disrupted so its not hard to imagine that an imperial psyker could disrupt the transferance link and render warframes into inanimated piles of flesh.

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OK so here's a question: what if Warframe plays sneaky? Say the Worm Queen performs continuity on a suitably important but weak-minded person and ultimately gains control of her own non-negligible Warhammer faction, complete with tech. Anybody fancy a Grineer spacemarine chapter, now also spiked with Kuva so they can't die? Or maybe she'd have better odds of success with a different faction?

Also how much mayhem could a cephalon or sentient cause if it got access to the right computer systems, and how wide a sphere of influence could it reach?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Follordark said:

 

and the fact is that warframe are pretty weak since we know that they are made of flesh and thus should be easily penetrated by any kind of monomolecular style weapons such as shurikens and splinter weapons and even chain swords to an extent.

on the topic of melee weapons warframe really does not have any kind of powered weapons that can mach the power of their imperial counterparts.Such as the power sword,axe mauls and other non imperial weapons such as the transonic blade and phase swords.

And that not counting on the biggest weakness of warframes:The lack of psychic defense since the tenno are really not that skilled at void stuff compared to psykers since even an Beta class psykers can do all kind of nasty stuff to you and we dont know how the transference stuff works specifically but we know that it can be disrupted so its not hard to imagine that an imperial psyker could disrupt the transferance link and render warframes into inanimated piles of flesh.

they may not resist those(well, nothing should, not even the armor used in warhammer 40k) but they may easilly recover from being cut by them(with rejuvenation, Arcane Grace, sentinel's healing or even with life stealing weapons such as hirudo). Or, in case you dont agree with using in-game things, it would be even easier since as we can see in "the sacrifice" quest, warframes can have an ABSURDLY FAST regeneration system(see how umbra recovered his face in a second). Also, warframes are probably very easy to be repaired, since as shown in the second dream quest, no matter how many warframes stalker has slayed, their numbers never decrease, and we also have oro for instant repair them a few times.

 

We've a sword made out of sentient bones and energy, Zenistar that is a heavy hammer with a disk capable of outputing any element, hirodu that whenever deals damage, absorbs said damage transforming into health to the owner, a staff that converts living beings into life and machines into energy, exalted weapons that can cut steel like a hot knife cuts butter, a huge hammer with an engine on the back, swords that intoxicate or infect enemies with desease,etc

 

transference used to be able to be disrupted when we were using machines to do it(the throne at the orbiter and the other on the moon), but ever since war within nothing has done. Quite the opposite, as the war within quest has showed, the tenno powers are now so strong that even Kuva and high-end orokin tech can't invade the operator's mind anymore. The only thing that still manages to "get inside our minds" is the man in the wall, but he's expected to be a GOD(since he's the very manifestation of the void itself) and he uses persuasion most of the time so that doesn't count. 

Edited by elpeleq42
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12 hours ago, elpeleq42 said:

they may not resist those(well, nothing should, not even the armor used in warhammer 40k) but they may easilly recover from being cut by them(with rejuvenation, Arcane Grace, sentinel's healing or even with life stealing weapons such as hirudo). Or, in case you dont agree with using in-game things, it would be even easier since as we can see in "the sacrifice" quest, warframes can have an ABSURDLY FAST regeneration system(see how umbra recovered his face in a second). Also, warframes are probably very easy to be repaired, since as shown in the second dream quest, no matter how many warframes stalker has slayed, their numbers never decrease, and we also have oro for instant repair them a few times.

 

We've a sword made out of sentient bones and energy, Zenistar that is a heavy hammer with a disk capable of outputing any element, hirodu that whenever deals damage, absorbs said damage transforming into health to the owner, a staff that converts living beings into life and machines into energy, exalted weapons that can cut steel like a hot knife cuts butter, a huge hammer with an engine on the back, swords that intoxicate or infect enemies with desease,etc

 

transference used to be able to be disrupted when we were using machines to do it(the throne at the orbiter and the other on the moon), but ever since war within nothing has done. Quite the opposite, as the war within quest has showed, the tenno powers are now so strong that even Kuva and high-end orokin tech can't invade the operator's mind anymore. The only thing that still manages to "get inside our minds" is the man in the wall, but he's expected to be a GOD(since he's the very manifestation of the void itself) and he uses persuasion most of the time so that doesn't count. 

Just saying, the supposed "man in the wall" is simply a harmless mimic

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On 2020-05-25 at 5:32 PM, elpeleq42 said:

I know this has been discussed in the past, but with the changes over the years(on warframe's side for example: we now have Warframes with access to the Adaptation mod and Battle ships like Railjack, the quills who can see the future,etc), the original topics wont do justice to both sides.

 

So, scenario: Full out war. All the factions of Warframe VS all the factions from Warhammer 40k. Both sides have every weapon, skill, power,etc at their disposal as they would be within their respective games. There are battles happening on both space and on planets. Who do you think would win, how and/or why?

You realize there are single people units like the SwarmLord capable of leveling entire planets, right? right.

No contest.

 

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15 hours ago, elpeleq42 said:

they may not resist those(well, nothing should, not even the armor used in warhammer 40k) but they may easilly recover from being cut by them(with rejuvenation, Arcane Grace, sentinel's healing or even with life stealing weapons such as hirudo). Or, in case you dont agree with using in-game things, it would be even easier since as we can see in "the sacrifice" quest, warframes can have an ABSURDLY FAST regeneration system(see how umbra recovered his face in a second). Also, warframes are probably very easy to be repaired, since as shown in the second dream quest, no matter how many warframes stalker has slayed, their numbers never decrease, and we also have oro for instant repair them a few times.

 

We've a sword made out of sentient bones and energy, Zenistar that is a heavy hammer with a disk capable of outputing any element, hirodu that whenever deals damage, absorbs said damage transforming into health to the owner, a staff that converts living beings into life and machines into energy, exalted weapons that can cut steel like a hot knife cuts butter, a huge hammer with an engine on the back, swords that intoxicate or infect enemies with desease,etc

 

transference used to be able to be disrupted when we were using machines to do it(the throne at the orbiter and the other on the moon), but ever since war within nothing has done. Quite the opposite, as the war within quest has showed, the tenno powers are now so strong that even Kuva and high-end orokin tech can't invade the operator's mind anymore. The only thing that still manages to "get inside our minds" is the man in the wall, but he's expected to be a GOD(since he's the very manifestation of the void itself) and he uses persuasion most of the time so that doesn't count. 

well it is stated in the canon that power armour can resist shurikens and splinter weapons easily like in the novel Dante(the space marine) where captain Dante"walked into a hail of shuriken and las fire" and I am fine with healing powers and such but you will have to explain how they would work in a lore sense otherwise it would serve no purpose.Also not all frames have fast regen and it is a little inconsistent since we never saw a Warframe being shot down and coming back to life in the lore and in the game you cant in arbitration.and in the second dream our Warframe gets incapacitated by sword in the chest and it gathered just enough strength to destroy the War. so from that we know that Warframe can be incapacitated by taking enough damage.

and the sentient bone sword is not specified to be powered so it can't match a power sword and how would the elemental zenistar work in the lore and how would your absorbtion work in the lore same with the kuva spectre and exalted weapons are really strong in the lore but the enemies we saw excal kill are essentialy guardsmen equivalent since their armour can be penned by a kunai and can me mauled by a dog so not the best troops.Bubonic axes and flails far outmatch weapons such as the mire and others like the weird scythe thing in term of toxin and power.

As for the queens we don't know how high in the orokin are they since they only said that they have orokin blood and as most of the high end orokin where killed, so we can expect that they are not that high like middle class at best and they are not specialist of mind manipulation and possession and even if they are these two disipline are the most casual thing for a hight end psyker like a librarian   

 

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11 minutes ago, Follordark said:

well it is stated in the canon that power armour can resist shurikens and splinter weapons easily like in the novel Dante(the space marine) where captain Dante"walked into a hail of shuriken and las fire" and I am fine with healing powers and such but you will have to explain how they would work in a lore sense otherwise it would serve no purpose.Also not all frames have fast regen and it is a little inconsistent since we never saw a Warframe being shot down and coming back to life in the lore and in the game you cant in arbitration.and in the second dream our Warframe gets incapacitated by sword in the chest and it gathered just enough strength to destroy the War. so from that we know that Warframe can be incapacitated by taking enough damage.

and the sentient bone sword is not specified to be powered so it can't match a power sword and how would the elemental zenistar work in the lore and how would your absorbtion work in the lore same with the kuva spectre and exalted weapons are really strong in the lore but the enemies we saw excal kill are essentialy guardsmen equivalent since their armour can be penned by a kunai and can me mauled by a dog so not the best troops.Bubonic axes and flails far outmatch weapons such as the mire and others like the weird scythe thing in term of toxin and power.

As for the queens we don't know how high in the orokin are they since they only said that they have orokin blood and as most of the high end orokin where killed, so we can expect that they are not that high like middle class at best and they are not specialist of mind manipulation and possession and even if they are these two disipline are the most casual thing for a hight end psyker like a librarian   

 

Pretty much on the nose, until 6th edition power armor being totally proof against Shuriken tech was reflected in the tabletop too; around 6th, they decided as they often do that Eldar needed a boost and gave them essentially rending (representing them shooting into weak connectors and vulnerable joins in the armor and bypassing on 6's) personally, I felt the high volume, strength to cost and such was mitigated by their low armor penetration. In Warframe, our warframes would be more comparable to eldar mobility and durability than Space Marines (though canon, a Space Marine can run very fast; its not usually presented well and they are still very heavy) I think the best representation of how different Space Marine tactics for a boarding extermination  and ours can be seen with the Fan Film on youtube, "Astartes" compared to our cinematic teasers.

If we are talking about rejuvenation abilities? I guess we could get into canon for Space Marines that they tend to clot easily rapidly heal, and can eat minerals to repair their less than organic elements of their physiology like the bone sheathings and all. While a Space Marine probably won't regenerate a limb without help; they also aren't likely to die from just ripping out their intestines or shoving pointy objects in their anatomy, with enough time its suggested most organ damage can be regenerated - its just not considered practical and cybernetics exist. That said, Librarians and other Psykers exist, one of those psychic abilities allows units to quickly regenerate wounds to the point of regrowing limbs, armor healing up, and could likely be considered similar to our Focus or warframe healing abilities.

The Queens were Orokin Elite rank; and according to the Elder Queen at one point helped on the Warframe project though we don't know if that was during Silvana's involvement or after her going AWOL. We also know they were spared by their "Father" which one would assume since they were involved with the warframes under Ballas; would be him. They also at one point were involved with putting down Grineer insurrection, as well as leading the Military Grineer power structure if the Kuria are to be believed.

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Warhammer 40k is well known to be incredibly overpowered with the capability to destroy entire planets on a fairly regular basis. Warframe's factions would get dissolved rather quickly even against one faction, the entirety of 40K is enough to overpower any other sci fi universe. Tenno with their Warframes could potentially join the Imperium since they are human, which could bolster humanities force in the galaxy. That's the only way I see anything from Warframe surviving though, they'd have to join a faction from Warhammer or be destroyed. 

As a crossover it would be cool to see Warframes and Space Marines fighting together against the enemies of man. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

the entirety of 40K is enough to overpower any other sci fi universe.

Pffft... Warhammer is mid-tier at best when it comes to sci-fi. It just tends to get exaggerated because it's more mainstream than some of the more powerful ones.

Take, for example, Strike Legion. In Warhammer, infantry weapons run the gamut from lasers to impact detonated rockets to microfilament wire guns. In Strike Legion, you can equip a planet-busting grenade launcher as your underbarrel attachment. Said grenade launcher is fully automatic, mind.

That's just an example of a setting that can beat them conventionally. If you really want to go esoteric, then there are options for that as well. Doctor Who, for instance.

Edited by Corvid
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1 hour ago, Corvid said:

Pffft... Warhammer is mid-tier at best when it comes to sci-fi. It just tends to get exaggerated because it's more mainstream than some of the more powerful ones.

Take, for example, Strike Legion. In Warhammer, infantry weapons run the gamut from lasers to impact detonated rockets to microfilament wire guns. In Strike Legion, you can equip a planet-busting grenade launcher as your underbarrel attachment. Said grenade launcher is fully automatic, mind.

That's just an example of a setting that can beat them conventionally. If you really want to go esoteric, then there are options for that as well. Doctor Who, for instance.

Not even kind of. As stated, there are individual characters capable of leveling planets by themselves, and whilst they are outliers in the universe, there is no equivalent in WF environment.

Secondly Strike legion is literal parody of overblown comabt scifi and isn't meant to be taken seriously in any aspect, nevermind being an abjectly blatant ripoff of said scifi and RIFTS.

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12 hours ago, Corvid said:

Pffft... Warhammer is mid-tier at best when it comes to sci-fi. It just tends to get exaggerated because it's more mainstream than some of the more powerful ones.

Take, for example, Strike Legion. In Warhammer, infantry weapons run the gamut from lasers to impact detonated rockets to microfilament wire guns. In Strike Legion, you can equip a planet-busting grenade launcher as your underbarrel attachment. Said grenade launcher is fully automatic, mind.

That's just an example of a setting that can beat them conventionally. If you really want to go esoteric, then there are options for that as well. Doctor Who, for instance.

Uh, question?

 

WHAT DO THEY STAND ON?

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3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Uh, question?

 

WHAT DO THEY STAND ON?

Planets, obviously.

Also spaceships, but that's beside the point. The grenades generate black holes at the point of detonation, and their output is scalable. So depending on what you set it to, the detonation could be anywhere from "That person is gone" to "That planet is gone".

Bear in mind, this is a setting where antimatter bombs are considered a non-lethal option.

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20 hours ago, Corvid said:

Pffft... Warhammer is mid-tier at best when it comes to sci-fi. It just tends to get exaggerated because it's more mainstream than some of the more powerful ones.

Take, for example, Strike Legion. In Warhammer, infantry weapons run the gamut from lasers to impact detonated rockets to microfilament wire guns. In Strike Legion, you can equip a planet-busting grenade launcher as your underbarrel attachment. Said grenade launcher is fully automatic, mind.

That's just an example of a setting that can beat them conventionally. If you really want to go esoteric, then there are options for that as well. Doctor Who, for instance.

Star Wars is mainstream, Warhammer 40K is too grim dark to be mainstream. There are heroes in Star Wars and other universes, Warhammer is ambiguous because everyone is against everyone in a galactic struggle to survive. You're also comparing Strike Legion to just the Imperium, there are far more terrifying things in the 40K universe than just humanity. Including demons and aliens from a different galaxy that want to consume everything. 

Looking it up I found this description, "Strike Legion is a batS#&$ insane sci-fi RPG that references nearly every sci-fi work of note, and some fantasy works, and puts everything together, turns everything up 11, creating combination that is utterly Awesome." 

Sure you can blow up planet after planet if you want, but in an actual galactic war you need those planets to control areas of space as well as maintain a supply chain. Otherwise you just have ships floating in space. Sounds like Strike Legion is overpowered for the sake of being overpowered with no other thought put in, sure it's overpowered next to any other universe but those other universes are trying to make sense. It's like making up a car that goes 1,000 mph but could never actually be made logically. If a writer wanted to they could have it so 40k just starts blowing up every planet from orbit. Would it make sense? No, but it would be cool. 

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4 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Warhammer 40K is too grim dark to be mainstream.

Okay, an amendment then. 40K is mainstream among the gaming community.

4 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

You're also comparing Strike Legion to just the Imperium

Which is why I made specific reference to an Eldar weapon, I suppose?

4 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Including demons

Which still die if shot enough.

4 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

aliens from a different galaxy that want to consume everything

See above.

4 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

but in an actual galactic war you need those planets to control areas of space as well as maintain a supply chain.

Not really. Interstellar distances are so vast that it's generally better to have manufacturing capabilities at the place where you're fighting, and planets don't need to be intact to provide resources.

4 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Sounds like Strike Legion is overpowered for the sake of being overpowered with no other thought put in,

Funny, I seem to recall similar sentiments regarding 40K. Just because something's a step up on the power scale doesn't mean there wasn't thought put into it.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that nobody's challenged me on the Doctor Who comment.

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5 hours ago, Follordark said:

maybe cause not that many person watch doctor who and can we go back on topic?

First, Dr Who is a pretty popular show overall, at least among English speaking countries' sci-fi geek communities; but to summarize what was being gotten to there, here is the wikipedia link to the Kardashev scale:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

its been expanded by some scholars, authors, and assorted goofballs but its a good generalization for judging a society or setting's overall tech,information, and power level overall.

Back to topic, I like Warframe's setting, such as we have, but being that we can't even safely leave our own solar system and have to scavenge in mission just to fire our Railjacks' special weapons which should be functional from Void energy alone we just don't stand a chance large scale in the W40k universe in a full scale conflict. Not really against any one major faction as far as I can reckon. I do like however chatting about it, and trying to rationalize such fantasy pairings as much as anyone though, so I would love to hear reasoning for either result.

Edited by Urlan
didn't actually add my link - Doh!
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3 hours ago, Urlan said:

we just don't stand a chance large scale in the W40k universe in a full scale conflict.

My opinion is that while the Origin system wouldn't be able to conquer the Imperium or any of the other major factions, they'd probably be able to achieve a Tau Empire-esque state where while the Imperium could theoretically conquer the system, it would take more resources than it would be worth to do so.

I think it's worth pointing out that Imperial ships make use of massed slave labour just to reload those massive cannons the fans like to brag about so much. A single Saryn getting on board (fairly likely, considering that stealth-insertion into enemy vessels is the modus operandi of the Tenno) would likely be able to cripple one simply by spreading her spores through all those densely-packed bodies.

A straight-up slugging match isn't the only way to wage war on your enemies, and isn't really the Tenno' style anyway.

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26 minutes ago, Corvid said:

My opinion is that while the Origin system wouldn't be able to conquer the Imperium or any of the other major factions, they'd probably be able to achieve a Tau Empire-esque state where while the Imperium could theoretically conquer the system, it would take more resources than it would be worth to do so.

I think it's worth pointing out that Imperial ships make use of massed slave labour just to reload those massive cannons the fans like to brag about so much. A single Saryn getting on board (fairly likely, considering that stealth-insertion into enemy vessels is the modus operandi of the Tenno) would likely be able to cripple one simply by spreading her spores through all those densely-packed bodies.

A straight-up slugging match isn't the only way to wage war on your enemies, and isn't really the Tenno' style anyway.

Absolutely, and given that just such a situation is given as potential problem that ship crews have to manage in both Battleship Gothic and Rogue Trader Scenarios means that there is no arguement, it would be devastation, and their deaths in such a way would call Nurgle to the ship and directly to the Saryn dooming that warframe, but who knows how similar the Void and Warp are allowing the Daemons to manifest through the psyker or in this case Tenno's brain physically? Unfortunately what we call the Origin System, or Sol system is the seat of power for the Imperium of Man, its the most heavily garrisoned and defended section of all of the Imperium's massive space forces. And they have their own "Tenno" so its not like they are not aware of such entry tactics no matter how effective it would be on the standard ship. Imperial Death Cult Assassins, and particularly the four main branches of the Officio Assassinorum. Not nice folk, some just being near rips at your souls while I am pretty sure if the Void works anything vaguely like the Warp, which it probably does; being within eye sight of them would neutralize not only our Warframe powers but our Void powers and cause most of us to take sanity tests. We are hardened to some scary nonsense but soulless things like that can cause the daemons to actually run away in terror if such is possible, at least in good enough numbers.

The main Temples of Assassins are Callidus. Culexus, Eversor, and Vindicare. Personally, I think we would have the most problem with Culexus and either Vindicare or Eversor depending on if the node is a plains like location or standard tileset. Callidus are infiltrators so we would only have to worry about them getting in our ships, dojo, and civilian centers; since in kill mode we tend to investigate reality by attacking similar to a shark. Eversor are melee specialists and living bombs both in their melee skill and combat drug cocktails making them literally so while Vindicare are the opposite; clean, cold, and efficient they are a favorite of Inquisitors requesting a batch of super human soldiers to get unfortunately sniped by hostile "Ork Sharpshooters". The are specialists at range, packing a deadly pistol and sniper rifle generally and enough training and modifications to actually surpass most human and inhuman sharpshooters in the W40k setting, and their rounds go through tank armor as well as brain pans so not fun to get hit by. For the more Tenno that try to do the hit and run I figure those will be the biggest threat, as many are relentless, conditioned to worship the prospect of death as a release granted only after success, and are the culmination of regular human indoctrination, cybernetics, and good old fashion torture (doesn't get to the Dark Eldar level of course).

The main problem is just how massive the various factions are and while individual forces might be primitive or advanced, they each are at least at a higher scale of production to anything in our system alone. While we might be able to annoy any one faction for a long time, if not detected; we could never survive persistent detection from any single force.

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The real answer even on a lore basis, is "whose tropes win'? That is to say whose naritave rules and assumptions hold sway?

Also is this the origin system vs the whole 40k universe, IoM, Orks, Eldar in both kinds, Tyrands and tau, or just vs the Sol system equiv in 40k, home of Holly Tera, throne of the astronomican?

How are we reading warp influence on the Tennoverse? will all the tenno instantly fall under the sway of Khorne the moment the fight starts elevated to demon princes in a heartbeat by the lord of skulls?

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