Warframe VS Warhammer 40k

[TARINunit9]

13 minutes ago, keikogi said:

A thumper can run circles on a lemon russ but not sure if it can damage it and these kind of tattics are useless on formation, Again even if both the main gun and the drill can dispose of lemon russ if a lass gun or plama gun can hurt it the amount of lemon russ the imperium has way more lemon russes than the grineer have thumpers.

Speaking as a Warframe fan, Tusk Thumpers are crap. Leman Russ tanks have a cruising speed of 35 kph and a main gun designed to level buildings; Tusk Thumpers are armed with Bombard-class anti-infantry rockets. I would be willing to accept that Tusk Thumpers have thicker armor, but don't judge the Leman Russ's armor so harshly: Imperial lasercannons are like three times larger than an Opticor, with power sources to match

[Urlan]

4 hours ago, keikogi said:

I think what people don´t get about the Waarhammer universe it is it sheer scale. This both cause incredible levels of power on both sheer size and the high end of power curve. While on average the power level of the origin system is way higher. For example

The average grineer solider is probably way better than you average member of the imperial guard. A grinner is augment enough to perform drop pod assaults.

Same goes for the average level of technology is higher as well. For example, teleportation is common place in warframe both corpus and tenno use it widely. While in 40k it is an arcane technology 

Even close to the high end warframe universe still has an edge. Your average warframe definitely beats an astardes on speed an agility and has “psychic power” to boot but the level of durability of warframe is not really clear ( umbra regenerates half of his face plate on a second but he also got disintegrated in a single shot). Warframe are capable of a quite high level of bullshiet.

However the 40 k universe has just to much non sense to thrown around. Even the grineer with the capability of replace an entire army can’t fight an empire that can just fie so many guardsmen that they outnumber a grineer 1000 to 1.  Even warframe, as bullshiet as they are would still find their end one way or the another. For example while an astardes would not be able to track a gauss running (not a lore specialist but I’m pretty sure astardes cant accurately fire at something moving at match speed ) but a vindicare assassin probably would be able to find the shot.  Also 40 k just has to many planet crackers and virus bombs, it pretty much makes it so a single ship can end a planet making the threat of each ship exponentially higher.

Warframes are not particularly fast, at least innately; but it certainly is easier to improve our warframe speed. For the most part, they aren't any faster than a standard humanoid - but doesn't tire anymore while bullet jump and parkour is something you see often among the Eldar but not among the Space marines who can just run as fast as a tank or 21KM/h and through or vault over many light cover but among the imperials, you might want to look at the Imperial Assassins I mentioned earlier.  One book has a space marine, though admittedly a chaos but unmutated Space Marine react to someone, tear across a 10 meter distance, and then jump across a bunch of consoles to end a fellow in the span of "Three heart beats". A space marine doesn't tend to regenerate as fast as Umbra's face plate, but do heal faster than normal, and seal wounds within a short period of time. In this case, Umbra Excalibur was doing so due to being recently cloned and the technocyte cells were probably fresh as he jumped off earlier than he should. Librarians and other psykers have an ability to cause limb, organ, skin, etc  regeneration as part of the Biomancy sphere of psychic powers. 

Honestly, the typical Grineer is probably very capable for their age and with their augments very well could be stronger than the standard flesh and blood guardsman but the problem is training, gear, logistics of the guard compared particularly since this scenario is in the heart of the Imperial Structure. As far as enemies without number, its actually scenario that is regularly encountered in W40; and while the Grineer are truly numerous, and even out slice- stabby ways haven't put a dent in their numbers, this is still problematic at times because the degradation inherent in such practices, and compared to the standard guardsman, better armor (since they are all generally some level of cyborgs with at least medium armor on their torsos) but worse level of weapons in general, roughly being equivalent to autogun tier technology. That isn't to say the Guard aren't known for their extreme numbers as well, a single regiment is around 500,000 soldiers to 750,000 with additional armored support sometimes added in or separate. As to teleporter pads, while its totally true that the tech is considered arcane and exotic, its also standard equipment on all Space Marine Battle Barges and many guard; but well, a standard human doesn't survive unprotected hops through the warp all that well, so it tends to be reserved for heavy gear, terminator infantry, or dreadnoughts though its rare due to the possibility of failure. Most Space Marines tend to trust drop pods more and while the Space Wolves still have the gear, are highly superstitious  about it despite what the Honored Ancestors keep telling them. In general, a Space Marine would rather board your ship via boarding drill or Caetus Assault Ram, but they are perfectly capable of doing so; while the Orky Teleportaz are among the few pieces of Ork tech that the Imperium is pretty sure works due to actual technical know-how rather than just thinking it will; though the mechanicus still doesn't fully understand it.

As far as tracking Gauss, Space Marines have super human reflexes which admittedly vary per the writer, sometimes even the same author; but are generally stated to being capable though not all will; of following autogun rounds in flight, and catching them though they will rarely bother, since their bones alone can't be pieced by the stuff except in much higher speeds or calibers like the Imperial Astartes Assault Cannon. Space Marines are generally quite capable of adapting their fire or predicting where fast fighters such as jet bikers or warp spiders might appear as well; considering Gauss moves much slower than super sonic even with the highest pumps -still quite fast, faster than a space marine most of the time - it isn't in the range of super sonic speeds.To put in in context, in one book when someone shoots at a blood gorgon in one book he wonder woman's the enemies' rounds out of the air before deciding some of them just weren't well aimed enough to hit something vital and letting them bounce off his shoulder armor. To be fair though, this isn't the section that Tenno would likely have trouble with; as if we take official player numbers as game Tenno numbers, even given the tiny tiny playing field and industrialization level of the Origin System compared to its equivalent Sol System within the Sol Segmentum, Tenno outnumber Space marines.

My best bet? Have Tenno foundries and Corpus study the more exotic and arcane devices that the Imperium has and uses but don't really understand; and make use of it to jump start their tech level; while keeping the Grineer away from the Death Korps of Krieg so they don't get drowned in folk who use the same gimmick but on a larger scale.

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

the Void IS the Warp

Except beyond a few superficial similarities (being another dimension used for FTL with bad effects from direct exposure), the two are nothing alike. The Warp, for instance, is defined and altered based on the beliefs and actions of the physical world, while the Void is specifically noted to be completely indifferent to it.

Likewise, aside from the Man in the Wall, the Void is completely devoid of any form of life, unlike the Warp's Daemon-infested state. A failure of Void-shielding tech doesn't cause a Void-borne installation to become corrupted or infested by Daemons like a Gellar-Field failure, it just gets crushed by the dimension's ambient energies.

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Wally IS Tzeentch

How you can conclude that is beyond me, considering that once again, the two are nothing alike. Tzeentch is defined by schemes upon schemes, constantly adding new pieces to the board and becoming ever more elaborate until the plots collapse in on themselves and leave all involved parties in disarray and confusion. It doesn't even have an end goal in mind, as all it wants is for the universe to keep changing.

The MitW, on the other hand, has done exactly two things of significance, both seemingly supporting the same goal of empowering the Tenno (with the apparent expectation that we repay this "debt" some point down the line). Hardly the actions of an entity that makes a point of supporting both sides whenever it can get away with it purely for the sake of seeing what will happen.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Corvid said:

Except beyond a few superficial similarities (being another dimension used for FTL with bad effects from direct exposure), the two are nothing alike

How you can conclude that is beyond me

Only in the very specific scenario of "Warframe vs Warhammer 40k". In that one specific context, the Void is the Warp pre-Age of Strife. Every difference you claim they have, I don't see existing.

Otherwise no, for legal reasons they are obviously distinct

[keikogi]

2 hours ago, Urlan said:

Warframes are not particularly fast, at least innately; but it certainly is easier to improve our warframe speed. For the most part, they aren't any faster than a standard humanoid - but doesn't tire anymore while bullet jump and parkour is something you see often among the Eldar but not among the Space marines who can just run as fast as a tank or 21KM/h and through or vault over many light cover but among the imperials, you might want to look at the Imperial Assassins I mentioned earlier.  One book has a space marine, though admittedly a chaos but unmutated Space Marine react to someone, tear across a 10 meter distance, and then jump across a bunch of consoles to end a fellow in the span of "Three heart beats". A space marine doesn't tend to regenerate as fast as Umbra's face plate, but do heal faster than normal, and seal wounds within a short period of time. In this case, Umbra Excalibur was doing so due to being recently cloned and the technocyte cells were probably fresh as he jumped off earlier than he should. Librarians and other psykers have an ability to cause limb, organ, skin, etc  regeneration as part of the Biomancy sphere of psychic powers. 

 

2 hours ago, Urlan said:

As far as tracking Gauss, Space Marines have super human reflexes which admittedly vary per the writer, sometimes even the same author; but are generally stated to being capable though not all will; of following autogun rounds in flight, and catching them though they will rarely bother, since their bones alone can't be pieced by the stuff except in much higher speeds or calibers like the Imperial Astartes Assault Cannon. Space Marines are generally quite capable of adapting their fire or predicting where fast fighters such as jet bikers or warp spiders might appear as well; considering Gauss moves much slower than super sonic even with the highest pumps -still quite fast, faster than a space marine most of the time - it isn't in the range of super sonic speeds.To put in in context, in one book when someone shoots at a blood gorgon in one book he wonder woman's the enemies' rounds out of the air before deciding some of them just weren't well aimed enough to hit something vital and letting them bounce off his shoulder armor. To be fair though, this isn't the section that Tenno would likely have trouble with; as if we take official player numbers as game Tenno numbers, even given the tiny tiny playing field and industrialization level of the Origin System compared to its equivalent Sol System within the Sol Segmentum, Tenno outnumber Space marines.

Warframes in game abilities are quite mild compared to their in-lore version. Atlas punching in game send a dude on the stratosphere, Atlas punching in the lore , well the can shatter an asteroid into dust ( ok this one is not just punching it is related to his rock bending but punching an asteroid big enough ). Volt mildly fast human , on the trailer ( I´m assuming it is cannon ) literally out running bullets (just look at the explosions on the back ground , they barely move while Volt walks for a while without loosing any control over his movement ). Inaros storm in game small tornado in the lore at it maximum power it tall enough to pierce the skies and wide enough so the eye of the storm is as large is a village ( even if it a really small village like, this is massive storm ). There is no lore yet on how good is the healing warframes , the only evidence so far of the regeneration is the umbra face plate(the other instance of an warframe losing a limb is that mag being torn apart but a dead body does not heal at all ). About gauss not reaching super sonic velocities , he definitively does , seriously just look at volt speed on the trailer an explosive at the low end of explosion speed 1400 m/s and volt cover way more ground than the explosions do with means he is way faster while being really maneuverable ( he is not moving in a straight line ), I´m just assuming that Gauss is faster because he being slower would be silly.

2 hours ago, Urlan said:

My best bet? Have Tenno foundries and Corpus study the more exotic and arcane devices that the Imperium has and uses but don't really understand; and make use of it to jump start their tech level; while keeping the Grineer away from the Death Korps of Krieg so they don't get drowned in folk who use the same gimmick but on a larger scale.

To be fair what would end up deciding the engagment is how much buracracy the imperium will have to go trough before lauching a crusade big enought .

Also gray knight probably can use that warp power that nukes the tenno direclty (idk the name, the one based on what the emperor did to horus ) , so far the tenno have failed to quickly defend agaist any direct attack agaist them. The Origin system is still reaseaching actively so they probably could and would reverse engeneer most of the Emprium tech and some faction could become a massive pain in the ass, 3

Edit: FOund some napkin math on gauss speed 

Some friends and I did some calculations based on his Leverian which states that he outran Tremor Mines that he himself set off. Assuming they're like landmines we have today in terms of the delay between the firing pin hitting the primer(which is a huge lowball in of itself) and blast radius, assuming there's a 0.1s delay between firing pin being let go and hitting the primer, and mines usually have a blast radius of around 10 meters. Explosives generally explode at 8,050 meters per second, so Gauss needed to be running at least 8,051 M/s, or Mach 23.47. And this is casual for him. Also keeping in mind that this is a massive lowball, so realistically he could be much, 

 

 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

On 2020-06-22 at 10:38 AM, Follordark said:

yes and they can't even kill crewships the size of a imperial torpedo

and the fact is that warframe are pretty weak since we know that they are made of flesh and thus should be easily penetrated by any kind of monomolecular style weapons such as shurikens and splinter weapons and even chain swords to an extent.

on the topic of melee weapons warframe really does not have any kind of powered weapons that can mach the power of their imperial counterparts.Such as the power sword,axe mauls and other non imperial weapons such as the transonic blade and phase swords.

And that not counting on the biggest weakness of warframes:The lack of psychic defense since the tenno are really not that skilled at void stuff compared to psykers since even an Beta class psykers can do all kind of nasty stuff to you and we dont know how the transference stuff works specifically but we know that it can be disrupted so its not hard to imagine that an imperial psyker could disrupt the transferance link and render warframes into inanimated piles of flesh.

warframes are not regular  flesh they are turned into biometal that is resistant as steel and flexible as regular flesh 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

2 hours ago, Follordark said:

where id this mentionned  last time I checked the warframe where explicitly mentioned to be made form good old infested tissue the same stuff the infested are made of just hardier but not as hard as steel.

 

• "...But only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command." ballas sacrifice 
• "just a metal puppet dangling on tenno strings" hunhow on the second dream 
• "The Infestation spreads across the Origin System – a techno-organic parasite that attaches itself to natural and synthetic forms, slowly digesting the host subject and transforming it on a molecular level. Organic materials morph into new homogeneous organisms while harder, inorganic materials, like metals, will change structurally into a pseudo-organic substance that holds the characteristics of its previous forms." cephalon fragment the infestation
• "A mysterious weaponized armor controlled solely by the Tenno. Through the Warframe, Tenno can cheat death, channel the forbidden Void energies and face scores of enemies without fatigue. Due to apparent resistances of their Bio-Metal exoskeletons, Warframes can be safely deployed to Infestation Outbreaks, should they occur. In-depth information of the Warframe mandate is forbidden to all but the Seven." cephalon fragment warframe technology 

[(PSN)yokai1235]

1 hour ago, Follordark said:

Exoskeleton not fully and we dont even know how thick the shells are 

didn't you read the skin part and the characteristics of rhe original material part if add implants the infestation woud convert and integrate to the final form of the warframes if was just a exoskeleton they wouldn't be able to do 3/4 of what a regular warframe does like projection like generating a sword from fin air or taken bombs at face and still being intact 

[KimikoLastchance]

why would the imperium even fight the tenno? they are after all humans with access to power advanced weaponry and possessing  a mercenary mindset. granted they might be labeled as "Psykers" but i suspect the imperium would take one look at the Tenno and think "usefull" and hire them for dangerous missions hoping they die in the process.

[bad4youLT]

Watched this some time ago , feel like sharing .

 

 

[peq42]

On 2020-07-06 at 8:56 AM, bad4youLT said:

Watched this some time ago , feel like sharing .

 

 

I watchedd this video, but honestly the guy who made it has little to no knowledge of the game. Even with help, this video was quite meh at explaining some lore stuff of warframe.

 

Plus I think there wasn't railjacks back then.

[DeccanTraps]

Ok I was thinking about this last night and if we take the boring zero sum 'mash holly Sol fortress of the Imperium of Man, home of Mars of the Admech and Holly Terra into the origin system' thing, the only actual winners are the infested.

Not the Corpus, not the Grineer not the Tenno can stand agaisnt the massed fortifications they will face.

But the closest Infestation analogue the Tyranids behaves only minimally like our infestation. Might me total in its claiming of biomass but is also slow, limited to consuming organic matter.

Infested doesn't have to process and digest it simply turns you into something useful to it be that 'you' man or machine. It will cheerfully consume whole ships, whole planetary instillations. Theres nothing in the Astaries or Admech upgrades that will protect them.

And then, something even worse happens. The infestation will manage to take over a navigator. The warp navigating liniages that give the IoM its main FTL advantage.

How ever while this is happening, one group will be doing just fine. Unlike the corpus and grineer they have no instillations mashed by colliding universe into utter comedic devastation range, unlike the Imperium they have nothing to fear from infestation. Tenno secure in their scatterd hidden fastnesses, too fast to pin in the void where combat can always be declined, will simply outlast the bloom.

In summary, IoM beats Origin system, Infested beats IoM, Tenno beat infested.

This is the most boring option of the two universes meeting because it precludes any kind of meaningful interaction and stops factions like the Eldar Orcs and Tau mattering at all.

[Loza03]

8 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

Ok I was thinking about this last night and if we take the boring zero sum 'mash holly Sol fortress of the Imperium of Man, home of Mars of the Admech and Holly Terra into the origin system' thing, the only actual winners are the infested.

Not the Corpus, not the Grineer not the Tenno can stand agaisnt the massed fortifications they will face.

But the closest Infestation analogue the Tyranids behaves only minimally like our infestation. Might me total in its claiming of biomass but is also slow, limited to consuming organic matter.

Infested doesn't have to process and digest it simply turns you into something useful to it be that 'you' man or machine. It will cheerfully consume whole ships, whole planetary instillations. Theres nothing in the Astaries or Admech upgrades that will protect them.

And then, something even worse happens. The infestation will manage to take over a navigator. The warp navigating liniages that give the IoM its main FTL advantage.

How ever while this is happening, one group will be doing just fine. Unlike the corpus and grineer they have no instillations mashed by colliding universe into utter comedic devastation range, unlike the Imperium they have nothing to fear from infestation. Tenno secure in their scatterd hidden fastnesses, too fast to pin in the void where combat can always be declined, will simply outlast the bloom.

In summary, IoM beats Origin system, Infested beats IoM, Tenno beat infested.

This is the most boring option of the two universes meeting because it precludes any kind of meaningful interaction and stops factions like the Eldar Orcs and Tau mattering at all.

This is forgetting that the Infested grow stronger upon consuming new material, assimilating new knowledge and capabilities, similar to the Zerg. In the event that the Infested do successfully consume one of the factions of Warhammer, they become as powerful as those factions. In other words, whilst we can't get infested, we'd have all the problems of fighting that faction on top of it being infestation.

[DeccanTraps]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

This is forgetting that the Infested grow stronger upon consuming new material, assimilating new knowledge and capabilities, similar to the Zerg. In the event that the Infested do successfully consume one of the factions of Warhammer, they become as powerful as those factions. In other words, whilst we can't get infested, we'd have all the problems of fighting that faction on top of it being infestation.

No I factored that in but our orbiters and dojo are fast enough, and hidden enough that combat can always be declined. Thus, any fight past the initial 'what the hell is that' encounter is on Tenno terms not our opponents.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

No I factored that in but our orbiters and dojo are fast enough, and hidden enough that combat can always be declined. Thus, any fight past the initial 'what the hell is that' encounter is on Tenno terms not our opponents.

Maybe, but if you have to run away from every encounter because you can't win, then you've lost, pretty much.

[DeccanTraps]

Yeah I dont see even astaries as an impossible fight for tenno, just a hard one at best. But this is why I maintain 'mash the biggest fortress in one setting, against all of a much smaller setting' to be rather boring. a better scenario to my mind is 'IoM explorers encounter the Orokin system as a new fronter' but that's just me. it becomes far less 'all or nothing' in the details.

[Magus_Tahir]

I realized I have never posted in this thread. 

This concludes my time in this thread. 

[peq42]

alright welp, seems the tenno are joining the imperium now

[Urlan]

5 hours ago, elpeleq42 said:

alright welp, seems the tenno are joining the imperium now

For the Emperor indeed.

[Thecheshirecat03]

As a warframe fanboy, i'm gonna side with it for duty reasons, if anyone wants to contest my explanations, feel free to do so

Grineer - they are the easiest to explain, they have the NUMBERS to put on the battlefield, i believe some of the higher-level units would be ridiculous against non-tank armor-absurdly OP WH units

Infested - they spread like the plague (heh), so a good terrain domination force, they also can churn out absurd numbers provided they have the biomass to do so. Adding even their basic support units like healer and disruptor (EMP effect against field vehicles?) to the grineer army Would be a massive boost.

Corpus - alright, if they can put their inside petty squabbles for money aside (which is implied on this setting) then we're good, give their weapons and armor, and shielding and sciency stuff to the grineer to use and the infestation to assimilate along with a few field units of their own, also helping the grineer with their cloning problems to make more efficient grineer units (perhaps with some help from the infestation?), aso, grom my understanding, the WH people have a decent fear of innovation, so tech for the win i guess.

Tenno - not to flex but flexing anyways, we are battlefield gods, there is not much that can stop us, sure some in-game annoying hijinks like THAT  HECKIN BOMBARD THAT KEPT SHOOTING ME!!- ahem, excuse me, anyways, we are if not the first, then, we are the second most downright pants-S#&$ting terrifying thing in the system. That said, while any warframe would be awesome, the best for this would be warframes with buffing and support skills, like rhino, garuda, wisp, loki, frost, equinox, trainface, oberon, titania, nidus is okay too if you haven't watched any hentai recently. Or you can just dump all of them on the battlefield, results will be mostly positive.

Sentients - they are terraforming drones made to adapt to anything, and (mentioned in the lore) adapt anything unto themselves, if they collaborate with Corpus to develop adaptable weaponry and defense system, also according to the new war trailer their sentiships are capable of penetrating the hull of corpus and grineer ships alike. I think they would be good as front liners or heavy fire platforms. Also, they could work with the corpus and tenno to figure a way to innoculate them against void fuclery stuff, as a bonus we would probably have spacemom back (no, i haven't got over it yet).

corrupted - i honestly don't see much use to corrupted units beyond maybe being an upgraded and more fabulous version of the normal ones. The towers and its neural sentry though, these could be used as forward bases and a place to restore and improve the nearly dead units and offering easier (read free) access to orokin goodies.

The Man in the wall - Wally is not a faction, but i think it is powerful enough to count as one anyways, we don't really know the extent of its powers, on one hand it could be just one entity, albeit a powerful one with 20 million+ "followers", but only one against the superior number of daemons and entities from WH. On the other hand, it could be a manifestation of the void itself, we would not only have the patronage, but also the "personal" help of an entire sentient dimension with warp-like qualities also maybe immunity to warp fuclery. 

Now to the minor factions (less details because i'm getting tired... And because i know less about them)

Quills - they are hokage like dudes who use the void to see possible timelines and manipulate things for the best possible future, 100+ bonus to battlefield skirmishes and strategy planning. Collaborate with corpus and possibly infested for better gear for the tenno.

Ostrons and Solaris - uh, i don't know, they are good survivalists and workers, so feeding the army and fixing their gear? 

Syndicates - as much as some of them are crazy they can still offer more manpower. That's it.

Conclave - The Man, The Myth, The Legend: Teshin. Need i say more?

Entrati family - haven't had much time to explore it all yet, but one thing i'm sure of: we have our own marines, NEKRAMECH GO RATATATATATATATATATA... RRRRAAAAAATTATATATATATATATATATATATATATATA... it's just so satisfying

I'd go into detail about the ships as well. But i'm tired, and i'm pretty sure someone will or already has explained it

If i forgot someone, sorry, tired

Uh... okay bye

[Corvid]

This thread did not need a necro.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

This thread did not need a necro.

Yeah, mentioned "collaborating" with the infested. Sheesh...

[Thecheshirecat03]

15 minutes ago, Corvid said:

This thread did not need a necro.

*Laughing like a maniac while using heavy firepower to tear through hordes of infested*

[Urlan]

Railjacks are crewships with guns; not really gunships themselves while adaptation is a timed conditional mod, while useful against light attrition it wouldn't be particularly useful in W40k outside facing a guard blob (due to their low strength weight of numbers approach) but even they have a multitude of special weapons in there which make a mockery of armor much tougher than ours in general. Tenno in W40k would be akin to the standard psychic called a Psyker in W40k; with a host of Warp (Void in Warframe) powers and some of these entities able to puppeteer other lifeforms remotely like a Daemonhost might through possession. Another problem to consider is scale, while GW is terrible at addressing this in a consistent way; the area Warframe exists in is but a small part of the W40k Milky Way Galaxy settlements by the various factions. If we just went by the Imperium of Man, the Sol system is part of the highest defended and patrolled areas of that setting and while W40k is dominated by cliche British bureaucratic maxes, invading the Solar Segmentum is one of those sure-fire ways to get your entire homeworld blown off of the map.

Long story short, while Warframes and Tenno are neat stuff and very cool; they just aren't on the same level of rule of cool and -of all things - consistent sci-fi world building to really work as a challenger faction to any of the existing W40k heavy hitters.

[Monochrome132]

People are seemingly forgetting something. The Man In The Wall exists. It has show that it can spawn spectres out of thin air. We dont even know how powerful it is and it seems to be on the side of the Tenno.