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Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion


SpringRocker

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm on the PS4 and I legit cannot play a single thing without at least one player using this damn thing.

 

It tanks framerate, is obnoxiously loud and the visual clutter the explosions cause I might as well play with my TV off because that's how much I can see with all the explosions flying around. And the camera shake. Oh god the camera shake. Try to aim anything with that, ridiculous!

 

DE needs to fix this thing or just remove it until they have, it's honestly the worst thing in years and in some cases literally makes the game almost unplayable.

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Player who likes Bramma: Oh you don't have to change anything about this bow, because it is strong, and I like strong weapons that kill everything, including your framerate; as opposed to trying out every other weapon in the game because I am a one trick pony. If this gets nerfed then I will boo hoo.

Player who likes all the weapons: Seriously DE, balance your weapons.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm proud to announce that our career of being hedge trimmers has taken off and soared above all expectations, because we have all been beating around the bush for months now, and no one has said anything.

The Kuva Bramma is broken. I've heard people spew positive opinions about the thing since release, so I recently decided to farm a Kuva lich to get my own. Once I had the thing in my hands, I felt dirty. I tried to push my personal bias out of the way because I was a Lenz Lover, but I didn't feel like there was any accomplishment in killing enemies with the Bramma because it was too easy.

Testing several times on 8 level 125 Corrupted Bombards, my 7 forma Orokin Catalyst Lenz with an unlocked Exilus slot and God rolled riven killed them all in a rounded average of 10 shots. With the same quantity and level of foes, my 0 forma Orokin Catalyst Bramma with innate 58% toxin damage, Hunter munitions, and basic crit & damage mods killed them with a rounded average of 4.

Not only that, but there is literally no downside to the Bramma that mods can't fix. The Twin Grakatas lack in base damage and ammo economy, the Lenz lacks in pullback speed, and the Velocitus lacks in IPS, for some examples. The Kuva Bramma has reduced accuracy and lowered ammo count, problems that can be fixed with Guided Ordenance and Ammo mutation.

The Kuva Bramma is extremely similar to the pre-nerf Haymarker Splat Catchmoon kitgun in both power, and being used by everyone and their mother.

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frankly, i have to agree with you. my frustration is born out of the same frustration in doing tridolons and people bringing the chroma X rubico prime X volt X.etc meta, and taking out the synovias in 1-3 hits. Once scarlet dong was released, i encounteded these condrix thingies, and thought "oh good, another thing i can kill that actually has enough health to withstand what i have! awesome, a challenge!" nope, kuva bramma x volt x chroma. im a titania main, and i'd like my weapons to actually cause damage to the thing, not play second fiddle to the heat of a thousand suns.

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On 2020-04-27 at 8:42 AM, (XB1)HollowCube987 said:

Testing several times on 8 level 125 Corrupted Bombards, my 7 forma Orokin Catalyst Lenz with an unlocked Exilus slot and God rolled riven killed them all in a rounded average of 10 shots. With the same quantity and level of foes, my 0 forma Orokin Catalyst Bramma with innate 58% toxin damage, Hunter munitions, and basic crit & damage mods killed them with a rounded average of 4.

Yeah not worth reading past this.

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On 2020-04-29 at 11:08 AM, (XB1)HollowCube987 said:

I have been seeing at least one person with a Kuva Bramma in all of the squads I'm in.

Its getting to catchmoon levels of annoying that I'm seeing this one weapon in EVERY STINKING PUBLIC SQUAD. Sure solo is fine but, seriously, if I have to compare it to catchmoon you know where this needs to go.

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On 2020-04-28 at 5:42 PM, Zackarihn said:

frankly, i have to agree with you. my frustration is born out of the same frustration in doing tridolons and people bringing the chroma X rubico prime X volt X.etc meta, and taking out the synovias in 1-3 hits. Once scarlet dong was released, i encounteded these condrix thingies, and thought "oh good, another thing i can kill that actually has enough health to withstand what i have! awesome, a challenge!" nope, kuva bramma x volt x chroma. im a titania main, and i'd like my weapons to actually cause damage to the thing, not play second fiddle to the heat of a thousand suns.

bramma against condrix...yikes

Contagion or redeemer is a lot stronger and damage buffs such as vex armor and roar do not boost damage against condrix. Those damage buffs are meant to be given to the squad mesa to kill high sentients faster

 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Lenz used to be in the exact same boat i heard.

Pretty sure Lenz was untouched. Even though it’s a AOE Bow, it scales like trash against Armor even with Hunter Munitions. Bramma dosen’t have that issue which is why it can go much further than the Lenz.

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While I agree with you, I see the problem not in the weapon itself.

The Kuva Bramma is a relentlessly strong weapon which is capable of outdamaging most of our weaponry, together with some heavy drawbacks. Some of them can be countered by mods such as the poor ammo usage, some others can't (couldn't until a specifc change was made) like self-damage. And that's where things get interesting (at least for me...)

When the Lenz was introduced back then it was beloved by most players if I remember correctly. The damage output it could achieve, wonderful, ammo usage, nothing to worrie about due to integrated ammo mutation, shoot a single arrow for each enemy 'cause it's a bow? No need to aim since it creates a gigantic explosion at the point of impact, coupled with a freezing mechanic which hold the enemies in place for the explosion to happen. Unfortunately, this freezing mechanic also applied to us players. We had to think about where to shoot the lenz arrow in order to not to kill us. That was a argument which was brought up by some critic: "The weapon, once fired at a wrong location, gives us little to no chance to escape the lethal explosion". That mechanic coupled with the positive aspects was a near perfect balance for a weapon I've seen and I liked it.

Now? Shoot, kill enemies. If the explosion captures us, be gently pushed out of the explosion, wait a few seconds until the freeze proc has worn off and you're good to go. All because of the removal of self-damage.

The removal of self-damage led to a play style which is nothing that even requires the slightest of effort. Turn off your brain and start to shoot, because you don't have to worry about any lethal drawbacks anymore. I can't speak for every player since I'm just one of them (obviously): If used by me, any explosion type weaponry like the aforementioned Bramma or Lenz, grenade launchers like the (Secura)Penta or (Kuva)Tonkor or let it be weapons like the Kulstar or Talons, gets really REALLY boring after a while since most of the time I don't even see the enemies. They are dead before they walked down the staircase and land on the last step in pieces. This does not only apply to me but also and especially to my team mates which often use the Bramma exclusively. And most of the time I simply quit the mission or try to distance me away from them in order to regain a little bit of fun in the mission. And that should not be the case.

While I hope that you (and hopefully some devs) can extract my opinion on this weapon and the flaw behind it, I also have to look why the change regarding self-damage was made. The way of how explosive rounds which split up into smaller explosive rounds upon impact works was / is (?) mostly determined by random generated numbers, which means that we weren't always able to figure out where these smaller explosive rouns will lands. Some of the used to fly in such bad way that they straight up hit us players and not the enemies. This might be one of the reasons why the aforementioned change was made. Another one (which is simply a guess, don't take it personally) could be that explosive type weapons are not suited for every player out there. When self-damage was still a thing a little bit of mental effort was needed for using the weapon continuously without kicking yourself out of life every few minutes (or seconds). Players that of whatever reasons, let it be the mentality towards how guns should function in a game, the general play style (be stealthy with a rocket launcher and fail miserably) or simply the mood for the day, weren't always be able to provide such mental effort and still tried to use it continuously, then proceeded to the forums and rambling about why self-damage is bad. And the devs listened.

What I would like to see changed is not the Kuva Bramma but how the new punishment system works for 'self-damage'. Weapons should not be able to knock you back horrendously and will be able to damage you again but not kill you. You will be 'remembered' of how to use such lethal gun correctly but it won't throw you out of life anymore. And weapons that didn't dealt any self-damage before the change shouln't be able to damage you anymore (Tombfinger Kitgun for example). I still ask me why such a change was made.

TL:DR The Kuva Bramma is not the problem but the self-damage change behind it.

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The self-damage change is definitely an issue, especially since you can negate it (Roar Rhino and Max Duration Gauss with Bramma are actually completely nuts), but the removal of self-damage is still a good thing. Issue here is things (and by things, I mean the Bramma specifically) weren't properly adjusted afterwards.

Self damage was a balancing mechanic, sure, but it was also a very poor one because of how Warframe plays and how there's a huge tendency to accidentally murder yourself through no fault of your own (wonky hitboxes, allies, bad lighting, etc). It didn't make people use weapons carefully, it made people not use weapons at all.

Kuva Bramma is most definitely the problem and it almost completely negates the use of the rest of the arsenal except in specific cases. This thing can even one shot high level bosses despite being an AoE weapon.

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I agree. It got boring very quick to use the Kuva Bramma. But there is zero downside to this weapon. Most AoE weapons trade single target damage for crowd killing, but this thing has no problem downing level 5 liches. There is no reload time, the pull time is quick and can be equipped with hunter muntions to slash proc everything to death.

Something needs to change. Maybe lengthening the draw speed would be a start. I don't think it needs to be nerfed into the ground, but it shouldn't outperform every single weapon by a long shot, similar to the pre-nerf Catchmoon. Maybe buff the damage but nerf the crit numbers. Or add a longer reload time between shots so it can't be spammed endlessly.

 

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Sooooooo if I remember correctly the Kuva bramma is an mr 15 weapon right. Same as the Tigris prime or euphona prime. I don’t think it needs to be nerfed directly but it can lose its aoe maybe or give it the same requirement as concentrated arrow ..... explosions on head shot or weak point shot 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Sooooooo if I remember correctly the Kuva bramma is an mr 15 weapon right. Same as the Tigris prime or euphona prime. I don’t think it needs to be nerfed directly but it can lose its aoe maybe or give it the same requirement as concentrated arrow ..... explosions on head shot or weak point shot 

No, while these weapons are "MR locked", if you obtain them yourself from a Lich, you can have it at any MR level.

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