Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion

[DoomFruit]

Honestly, the best thing to do would be to make explosive weapons hurt the player again (actual explosive weapons, not fake explosives like the opticor, ferrox and tombfinger) and get rid of cautious shot. You want to take a room nuker? Fine, just make sure you're not in the room at the same time.

BRING BACK SELF DAMAGE! Not just for us, but for enemies as well. I want to see liches knocking themselves flat on their arses because they don't know how to use a bazooka.

[Agmeuz]

As a Mirage main that loves to use the Bramma (mainly because I like using bows) and has all energy slots black to try to help other people, I agree that something should be done.

I do not use rivens because they are overpriced AF, but the weapon is too OP even with basic mods, add to that the fact that my Eclipse can boost damage by 700% and no enemy can keep up. There should be kind of consequence of using it so you have to think before shooting (something along the lines of self damage, so you have to actually aim from afar to not get killed).

[(PSN)thegarada]

I have not bothered getting this yet. I rarely bother with weapons unless I have riven for them anymore... I guess I will... sometime... I just cannot shrug through a full Kuva lich hunt (plus rolling the weapon to begin with).

Last few times I tried something that is supposed to be "so powerful" it ended-up great for farming... level 50-70 mobs. Can it compete with Gram prime with optimally rolled riven in killing level 100+ mobs (or any other top melee weapon)? Nothing does.

There is a reason why I barely run anything but Kuva flood anymore. Just waiting for ultra HM... 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

14 hours ago, Xaero said:

You make it sound like AoE stuff, including Bramma, that people complain about, becomes much less efficient beyond level 30.

Maybe its because I fight enemies above level 30. a max forma-ed bramma ran out of ammo in the scarlet spear. 

Meanwhile, only a thousand other weapons kill just as well against level 30 enemies. 

Almost like people are only complaining its popular. Almost like nerfs only make the game less fun. Till the day Tonkor gets the fun jump back (A fun only feature) I'll always be against nerfs. 

Cause they only take fun away,

[(XBOX)Purdue Wolf]

On 2020-05-26 at 2:49 PM, MacIntoc said:

The problem is not the Bramma itself. The problem is that you can't tell the game that you don't want to play with players who use it ^^

The problem with using filters in this game is that many players will have trouble finding squads that don't play with dedicated friends or clans.

Also, it would be hard for certain frame players to join squads if filters were added.

We don't need more issues added to this game; more content is what will keep this game alive.

[RuFi0]

2 hours ago, Agmeuz said:

As a Mirage main that loves to use the Bramma (mainly because I like using bows) and has all energy slots black to try to help other people, I agree that something should be done.

I do not use rivens because they are overpriced AF, but the weapon is too OP even with basic mods, add to that the fact that my Eclipse can boost damage by 700% and no enemy can keep up. There should be kind of consequence of using it so you have to think before shooting (something along the lines of self damage, so you have to actually aim from afar to not get killed).

I think it can be nerfed without needing to adjust the damage or bring back self-damage. Here's what I think after revising my first idea: 

1. Make the bow unable to use mods that negate self-damage (Cautious Shot, etc), and give it the widest self-knockdown out of any weapon in the game.

2. Slow the fire rate down, and make it unable to surpass the stock fire rate by using mods like Vile Acceleration. 

Not being able to use self-damage mods would ensure that players can't chase spawns and do cheesy things like stand there and shoot at the ground, as the knockdown would punish them hard; giving the bow a fixed fire rate would would make sure people can't spam it mindlessly.

If you have a mod that negatively affects fire rate (like Critical Delay), you would be able to use something like Shred or Vile Acceleration to bring it back up, but it would not be able to go past its original 100% fire rate.  

Any other ideas of how we can bring the Bramma back down to a fair level?

[GenryusaiYamamoto13]

2 minutes ago, RuFi0 said:

Any other ideas of how we can bring the Bramma back down to a fair level?

Reduce the fire rate by a slight, reduce AoE, reduce the number of bomblets, force the player to fully draw the arrow(like the Daikyu) to release the shot, lower the crit chance to 30 and the multiplier to 2.0, lower the status chance to 20 and reduce the reload speed, and lower the riven disposition. A FULL nerf to the bow, is the only thing "close" to a "fair" level. 

[Sevek7]

52 minutes ago, RuFi0 said:

Any other ideas of how we can bring the Bramma back down to a fair level?

I think the bramma could be fixed by making its arrows only explode on contact with an enemy. 

[Graavarg]

On 2020-05-27 at 9:03 AM, Travis05 said:

I didnt intend to be competitive. i didnt care about damage. I wanted to PLAY. Can you get the concept? Can you understand now?

Not want to start a flame war, and I don't really care about the "Bramma debate" (since there are lots of weapons and abilities that just kill everything, and there is other eye cancer stuff in the game).

My only point is that what you are actually saying (logically) is not that "you wanted to PLAY", but that you wanted to play the mission YOUR way. I do get that, and it happens to me quite often. It is more often something other than Bramma (Saryn spamming her abilities comes to mind, but there are lots of other superkiller stuff). However, I have personally come to slightly zen conclusion that I cannot join a co-op play with three other random players and actually expect them to play the game the way I would prefer.

And as to the Bramma, there are a some subsets of gamers that thoroughly enjoy using it, and their way of playing "enjoyably" is probably what you and I "hate". There are those for whom their day turns bad unless they have the most kills in every mission, preferrably over 50% ("more than all the other together, please notice already..."). If they get over 90% they will experience an emotional orgasm. There are those who like eye cancer (easy to recognize both with the Bramma and the Simulor, and some other weapons as well...). And actually what they like is not eye cancer for it's own sake, but forcing it on other players. Go figure, but this is what they want to spend their life on. Then we have the braindead meta-herd, who have watched something on the dopetube, raided mommy's credit card and splurged on a Bramma riven. Don't get me wrong, meta as such is an interesting intellectual exercise, and the Warframe sandbox is among the best settings available to actually figure builds and systems out (and no, not the simulacrum...). But the braindead meta-herd haven't had an original meta-thought in their tiny brains ever, they are just copying stuff straight from dopetube. And once they have "invested themselves" in something to buff their equally tiny personality, they have to continuously prove to themselves how op they are ("it is so totally worth it man, my Bramma is soooo guud"). Maybe I should also mention the "min-maxing farmers", that will do anything to minimize the time in-mission and thus maximising their farming effectiveness. They also like the Bramma, due to it's effectiveness. You won't really see them in the "5 minute"-missions (not effective enough), and they usually farm alone (more effective, and also their nerves can't take standing and waiting at extraction) but there is a high risk of running in to them in low-level fast void fissure missions (where they go pub simply because opening 4 relics in one mission is more effective than opening only 1 relic per mission in four solo missions). They only spam Bramma when and where there is enemies to be killed, and anyway you need to focus on keeping up and get to the extraction before they experience a mental breakdown (generally if having to wait more than 10 seconds...).

All these, and a large additional amount of otherwise screwed up Tennos, actually have the right to use the weapons, warframes and playstyles they like (as long as they stick to the general rulez). I often hate it in-mission, but from a slightly wider perspective it is really quite nice. A sort of minicosmos of the overall diversity of humans. So, live and let live, and shame on all of you who want to remove their fun by nerfing the Bramma. The only really real reason to do so would be if it shows up as the primary in 25% (or something) of the missions (like Catchmoon). Cause then it's popularity would actually diminish the diversity (of the weapons used in Warframe).

[Rhyandra]

Am 27.5.2020 um 02:05 schrieb FaridRLz:

Bramma actually needs to be nerfed beyond oblivion just to make the whole game a tiny bit more enjoyable. People with ultra low end PC's or even laptops cannot handle the horrible experience it delivers to other players. Also it's just sickening how even MR 10 people can get it. No effort or hope that they'll try any other weapon in a looooong time.The power house fantasy of the game is just going in a direction that will just end in an unpleasant way

Imagine wanting a weapon nerfed because your PC is trash.

[Kamachi]

As much as I hate Bramma Spammers the issue isn't the Bramma in itself. The issue is that pretty much every other non melee weapon in the game outside of niche use cases are so incredibly crap and inefficient at mass murder. 

Many primary and secondary weapons for example require headshots to even be viable at high levels and when you're surrounded by 50 enemies that's just not going to be a pleasant experience.

I find myself only equipping a primary at the moment for the sprint speed boost from amalgam serration and a secondary like the Nukor to proc statuses for Condition Overload at very high levels. 

I seriously think primaries and secondaries need to be looked at and generally buffed. They fall off far too quickly compared to melee as enemies sky rocket in levels. 

 

[GPrime96]

1 minute ago, -Alleluia- said:

As much as I hate Bramma Spammers the issue isn't the Bramma in itself. The issue is that pretty much every other non melee weapon in the game outside of niche use cases are so incredibly crap and inefficient at mass murder. 

Many primary and secondary weapons for example require headshots to even be viable at high levels and when you're surrounded by 50 enemies that's just not going to be a pleasant experience.

I find myself only equipping a primary at the moment for the sprint speed boost from amalgam serration and a secondary like the Nukor to proc statuses for Condition Overload at very high levels. 

I seriously think primaries and secondaries need to be looked at and generally buffed. They fall off far too quickly compared to melee as enemies sky rocket in levels. 

 

^Clear issue with the Gunplay in this Game.

[kyori]

Go blame the one who created the weapon.

[Crusher4881]

The bramma is necessary in this game. Without it, today's sortie would be unwinnable.

[KimikoLastchance]

best way to fix this "meta" is set your sessions to invite only bring your friends or play solo

[RuFi0]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

My only point is that what you are actually saying (logically) is not that "you wanted to PLAY", but that you wanted to play the mission YOUR way

 

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

....A sort of minicosmos of the overall diversity of humans. So, live and let live, and shame on all of you who want to remove their fun by nerfing the Bramma. 

Every tenno can play the missions the way they want, until they are forced to play the way they don't want because of someone else. That's like one large business buying up the local town's small businesses, raising the prices, and saying "hey you can shop anywhere you want, don't like it, be an employee for us or shop at a different town." Sure, those are options, but that doesn't excuse the A****** move of forcing those options on people.

Bramma users are completely removing content from the game too quickly and easily. The majority of Bramma users kill too many, too fast, with zero effort, and turn the game into what it isn't. When you delete the entire point of the game (the enemies) and leave people with nothing to shoot, or trying to play catch-up just for the odd scrap while bramma users are piling up graveyards of bones from spawn to spawn -- that isn't a testament to the 'minicosmos of the overall diversity of humans.' That is oppression. The Bramma users are building a monopoly on killing enemies, and calling it fair capitalism. It's not. Sure, we can buy into it because we still want to play the game, but we're still going to be upset -- not 'because we can't play the game how we want;' we're upset because a single individual with a single weapon that takes no effort or thought to use is removing the options to play the way anyone wants entirely.

"My way or the highway" isn't player diversity, and that's Bramma's signature phrase. Everyone can play how they want, until someone takes away those options entirely, then something needs to be done. There are ways to play with nukers, spammers, DPS min-maxers and everything in between, but there is no other way to adjust to an overzealous bramma user besides joining them and competing, or leaving, re-queuing, and getting a 90% chance of matching up with another squad with a Bramma.

No amount of bloviation will excuse this weapon's existence.  

[KIREEK]

A charge bow......meta

Not even close.

[Xaero]

9 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Meanwhile, only a thousand other weapons kill just as well against level 30 enemies.

 

On 2020-05-24 at 2:32 AM, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

People tend to want everything balanced around level 30 enemies, and not anything past that.

Wait, so you were talking about yourself?

[Kayll]

10 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

 Almost like nerfs only make the game less fun. 

So right, the nerf to my eyeballs from introducing the Kuva Bramma really made the game less fun for me.

😔

[Aldain]

On 2020-05-29 at 12:03 AM, Xaero said:

You make it sound like AoE stuff, including Bramma, that people complain about, becomes much less efficient beyond level 30.

If anything AoE becomes even more efficient as it kills swathes of enemies who deal more and more damage faster than anything single target could ever hope to.

[DoomFruit]

10 hours ago, Crusher4881 said:

The bramma is necessary in this game. Without it, today's sortie would be unwinnable.

Unwinnable? I'm assuming that we're talking about the same sortie - hive (did that with orthos prime and normal corinth), rescue (nothing needed to die in this mission) and disruption (slowva + crit-build tombfinger, could also use opticor/ferrox/rubico/lex prime/whatever other high power single target weapon you like). The last time I ever used a bramma is when I 30'd the one I picked up several months ago.

[Bristoling]

Sorties unwinnable. Lol good one. I wonder what were we using before Bramma was introduced, especially when enemies had more armor, shields and health. I guess this is first time in 7 years when we finally unlocked the secrets of Sorties since nobody was able to complete one in the dark times before Bramma. 

 

Oh wait, to get Bramma you'd have to fight enemies of same levels as Sorties. So how did the first person ever get the Bramma, if Sortie level enemies were unwinnable? 😉

[Technomagos]

you're playing Ash with a Dagger.

Kind of the epitome of solo play

[DrivaMain]

You can’t dictate what people choose to pick. Even if you nerf the bramma another one will take it’s place.
 

If Bramma spammers really bother you that much. Just play on Solo Mode. Hopefully DE adds some sort of loadout bans in matchmaking for a more controlled public games, but that’s just wishful thinking.

[RuFi0]

14 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You can’t dictate what people choose to pick. Even if you nerf the bramma another one will take it’s place.
 

If Bramma spammers really bother you that much. Just play on Solo Mode. Hopefully DE adds some sort of loadout bans in matchmaking for a more controlled public games, but that’s just wishful thinking.

Then bramma users shouldn't be able to dictate how people choose to play. And I choose to play in a team, while doing something fun and meaningful. Those options are gone when a Bramma user is going nuts, and since we both agree that one dictating another's actions is wrong, then I'm sure you would understand why this is such an issue.