Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion

[Kayll]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

...

Pretty sure Rambo and Thermonuclear bombs don't have the games best interest at heart, do you even know what you're talking about anymore?
If you can't see why this weapon has been detrimental to the game and continues to be so until its changed then you must be blind as a bat. (probably from all the neon colored brammas.)

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 hour ago, Kayll said:

Pretty sure Rambo and Thermonuclear bombs don't have the games best interest at heart, do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

I know what I'm talking about far more then you do.
You act like AoE being powerful is some unthinkable occurrence. Like an explosive tipped bow, is suddenly not a bow anymore. If it acts like a bow, fires bolts almost functionally identical to a bow, but with the benefit of exploding, is labelled a bow, aesthetically looks and functions like a bow; it's not a bow according to you.

Cute attempt to discredit me, but you'll actually have to say something close to reasonable or accurate.

Which as it stands, you have done none of.

Btw. Have you ever fought a level 70 Wolf of Saturn Six with nothing but brammas? Turns out. Terrible Idea. Without enemies to kill, everyone runs out of Ammo almost immediately, then melee him in the corner for about half an hour.

Want an even worse idea, then trying to fight the wolf of saturn six with a hunter muntions bramma? Nerfing it cause its popular.

[Kayll]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Cute attempt to discredit me, but you'll actually have to say something close to reasonable or accurate.

I don't have to you have done it yourself,being absurdly blind to glaring issues in game design.

You see nothing wrong with AoE weapons doing more damage than single target weapons.
You see nothing wrong with shooting at your feet being the most effective way of playing the game.
You see nothing wrong with 50% of the player base using one primary weapon in a game that has over a hundred others.
You see nothing wrong with changing the fundamentals of the game to benefit a specific weapon while harming weaker ones.
You see nothing wrong with the easiest weapon to use is also the most effective.
You see nothing wrong with completely removing the risk factor for a high-risk/high-reward weapon.
You see nothing wrong with the blinding effects this weapon causes due to it firing multiple explosives a second.

This weapon is an amplified version of the Simulor, the Tonkor, Catchmoon, Arca-plasmor,and Ignis all rolled into one obnoxious package.
All those weapons got their change, I have faith in DE to figure out what to do with the Bramma as well,just a matter of time.

[elevate]

5 hours ago, Twilight-Knight said:

Try to use that Bramma of yours with god riven on juggernaut and lephantis, and with bosses like Sargas Ruk, better yet use it on Eidolon giants.
Posts like this would be happend in they day of lenz too if there wasn't self damage.

As much as it might seem, bramma is not very good for eidolon hunts. Can it be used? Sure. Is it the best? Not even close. You're far better off using a sniper the lanka (only in low lvl hunts), rubico p, vectis p, vulkar wraith (only if you have a cc ms - riven).

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

5 minutes ago, 3levate said:

As much as it might seem, bramma is not very good for eidolon hunts. Can it be used? Sure. Is it the best? Not even close. You're far better off using a sniper the lanka (only in low lvl hunts), rubico p, vectis p, vulkar wraith (only if you have a cc ms - riven).

I think that was kinda the point. The Bramma is the worst choice practically for eidolons as the blast won't hit, and maybe, one of the clusters will.

The guy you were responding to, was mentioning how terrible the bramma is for hitting bosses with weakpoints. Bramma does nothing to lephantis. He was getting the point across that for certain things, the bramma is just straight terrible.

You are bettering off using a shovel and two candy bracelets for damage then the bramma when you are fighting lephantis. .

[elevate]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

I think that was kinda the point. The Bramma is the worst choice practically for eidolons as the blast won't hit, and maybe, one of the clusters will.

The guy you were responding to, was mentioning how terrible the bramma is for hitting bosses with weakpoints. Bramma does nothing to lephantis. He was getting the point across that for certain things, the bramma is just straight terrible.

You are bettering off using a shovel and two candy bracelets for damage then the bramma when you are fighting lephantis. .

Oh I didn't have context. My bad. Should've read the previous posts

[Twilight-Knight]

You think ? they added tons of AoE effects even it just 1 simple none explossive shot, when they starting to add these during the time of archgun developments with gravimag, there was tons of color blast report and they are still happening now, Darkness flash when you cross over Gara's glass wall, blast color energy when firing at the corner.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

I don't have to you have done it yourself,being absurdly blind to glaring issues in game design.

Just like how you absurdly tried to pretend the Bramma isn't a bow?

Or how basic logic eludes you?

So explain to me then. In all of your infinite wisdom, how an AoE weapon in a horde shooter is a glaring issue in game design? Yea. Didn't think you'd have anything smart to say.

I'll let you in on a little secret. Bramma isn't the best weapon in the game. It's definitely in the top 5. (Rubico with hunter munitions surpasses it in DPS, due to having a sniper counter, punch throuch, faster fire rate, magazine size, and a 35%-50% crit damage multiplier when scoped in. It doesn't have to charge every shot, or reload after every shot either. (Yes, I have actually tested this. Unlike you, I actually compare the dps numbers instead of running away from facts.)

The Bramma's design is quite sound actually. It follows the trend of most games that a powerful weapon has low ammo, requires a special method to make, and quite a bit of farming. Requires requiem relic farming to get the items needed to kill a kuva lich, then requires farming and killing kuva liches, then the gun itself needs to be forma-ed and upgraded in order for it to actually be good.

The bad game design has exactly 0 to do with the bramma. Warframe is an MMO/MMO-lite depending on how persnickety you are in definitions. I consider it an MMO, but either definition works.

The Bramma for all intent and purposes is an endgame weapon. Typically, MMO's release new content and new gear in expansions that come out with stronger level enemies.

Warframe has a little bit of that here and there, but after you beat the new area? You tend to go back to the lower tier missions and farm. This would be like playing World of Warcraft, hitting level 75 then going back to a level 23 dungeon at full strength and the noobs around you complaining you are overpowered. Meanwhile, you are balanced for the level you are supposed to be playing at.

The bramma is a good little weapon, and its power is in the realm of most Warframes and other end gear weapons. It's an alternative to Saryn miasma, volt, or the other nuke frames.

Functionally speaking, the Bramma is the Warframe equivalent of the Gjallerhorn from destiny. It's the AoE weapon everyone wants, until its no longer relevant/gets power crept by other weapons.

So until you actually say something reasonable, other then complain its popular and a good weapon? Yea. Your argument has no dice with me.

Especially when I routinely fight enemies that can shrug off the Bramma. If DE does the difficulty modes correctly, and tunes them to be lucrative in rewards, give players faster methods of farming and better drop rates?

All the overpowered things you like to complain about will move to the harder difficulties to speed up the farm, and you can play your low level easy missions in peace. You'll have to find something else to complain about. Won't take you long I'm sure.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with AoE weapons doing more damage than single target weapons.

Like Saryn's Miasma? Volt's discharge? Like Octavia's mallet being the single strongest ability in the game?

Like how nukes are more powerful then a machine gun, a sniper, or a shotgun?
 

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with shooting at your feet being the most effective way of playing the game.

Pretty sure shooting at the enemies trying to kill you is the most effective way of playing the game. You could bring back the Bramma's self damage, and I wouldn't be bothered even slightly. I don't shoot at my feet. Can't speak for you though. You might have taken a few knockdowns to many for that poor head of yours.

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with 50% of the player base using one primary weapon in a game that has over a hundred others.

You mean like how Destiny, Borderlands 3, the Division 2 and so on have the same result when they release new more powerful weapons?

It's almost... almost like a new powerful weapon was released. It was so good that everyone wants it. Almost like... Almost like people aren't going to bother with weak weapons that don't interest them, and instead gravitate towards a newer stronger weapon.

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with changing the fundamentals of the game to benefit a specific weapon while harming weaker ones.

Except that removing self damage didn't make any guns weaker.

Made it so people killed themselves less with weapons like the Lenz, Corrinth Prime, Bramma, Penta, Zarr and so on. The only change that made some weapons weaker was the shotgun status rework. Tigris Prime doesn't feel as strong as it used to be.

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with the easiest weapon to use is also the most effective.

See the Conference Call from Borderlands, The Norfleet from Borderlands, the Gjallarhorn from Destiny for details.

The Acceltra is currently either the best assault rifle in the game, or second best. (Depending if you prefer a status assault rifle over it.) The Acceltra is the easiest assault rifle to use. You point. You fire. It's the most effective crit assault rifle in the game. Nothing wrong with that. It's just how it is. Not every best gun in the game has to be a pain in the neck to use.

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with completely removing the risk factor for a high-risk/high-reward weapon.

There was no risk to begin with. People die so often in warframe with no consequence anymore, that keeping or removing self damage in warframe has no effect. Removing self damage makes players follow the same rules enemies do. Enemies are immune to self damage. This change doesn't effect me at all, neither does it effect the Bramma. Adding in self damage back would still have people like the weapon.

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

You see nothing wrong with the blinding effects this weapon causes due to it firing multiple explosives a second.

I play on console. The Bramma does not blind me, nor does it impair my vision in any way shape or form. You could tweak its visual effects all you want. I really couldn't care about it. But just comes off as you wanting to whine about something else.

Go ahead. Have DE change it so its less blinding for you. Literally no skin off my bones.

20 hours ago, Kayll said:

This weapon is an amplified version of the Simulor, the Tonkor, Catchmoon, Arca-plasmor,and Ignis all rolled into one obnoxious package.

Pretty sure its an amplified Lenz actually.

The Tonkor was a terrible weapon if you didn't get direct hits with it. The Arca Plasmor and the Catchmoon hit everything in front of it with a limited range. The Ignis is a flamethrower with a limited range, and the simulor as an anti gravity mine launcher.

I kinda assumed you would have been able to get a single thing correct. The Bramma literally has nothing in common with these weapons. Non of those weapons you mentioned have a charge time, fire arrows, or even meta anymore. I haven't seen a single one of those weapons, in literal years.

But I'm really not surprised that you failed to get even a single thing correct. Just kinda proves you don't know anything about what you are talking about. Calling the Bramma the equivalent of Lenz Prime would have made you semi believable.

(Ps. All the kitguns are trash. The catchmoon was the most popular cause it was the only good one. Every kitgun needs a rework.)
 

[DroopingPuppy]

I am against of nerfing charge time, for it only makes annoyance on using it. What it really needs is reduced damage, and perhaps reduced area of effect.

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The Bramma literally has nothing in common with these weapons.

I dunno, it has/had the Mirage interactions of the Simulor (lag + eyeball destruction) the "Its just better than almost everything" nature of the Catchmoon, the AoE power of the pre-nerfed Tonkor from way back and the ability to be W+fire'd with minimal drawbacks like Ignis.

[(PSN)Laughing_Beta]

On 2020-06-07 at 12:37 AM, Kayll said:

Pretty sure Rambo and Thermonuclear bombs don't have the games best interest at heart, do you even know what you're talking about anymore?
If you can't see why this weapon has been detrimental to the game and continues to be so until its changed then you must be blind as a bat. (probably from all the neon colored brammas.)

he got to good LMAO

he's right though, if an explosion does less damage than a single Target weapon, you have a S#&$ explosive weapon. Warframe has been trying to be logical for a while. Look they literally remove the snipetron in the market for lore reasons. They did the same with self damage, if we could survive space, abilities with literal explosions, toxins and gases from our weapons, and the lack of fall damage even after falling hundreds of meters. Then why the bloody hell could I kill myself with my own zarr with one or two shots. What I'm trying to say is that of course a bomb launcher (Key word, bomb)would deal more damage than single Target weapons. In the past they were balanced by self damage that seemed to still kill players even with careful use. But no you just get knocked on your arse so you can't say they made it unbalanced. 

 

and if you think that bramma is detrimental to the game, congratulations your literally whining over a bow and arrow. In Warframe there are bigger things killing the farm like it's bugs, taxing grinds that have players take breaks for ages, lack of true fun content/engame, bad beginner experience, and difficulties to listen to the player base (cant blame them though as you get stuff like the silly Nerf bramma argument). Whats detrimental in my opinion to this game is people like you who can't understand weapons and builds right to the point they think any endgame weapon is the end of the world. People like you can get perfectly fine weapon needed to the point where they lose the fun they originally had. 

[(PSN)Laughing_Beta]

If you guys take the time to calculate and check out the lenz and bramma you would see that with good builds you can get similar damage and dps.

[Kayll]

If AoE weapons deal more than single target weapons, then what is the point in single target weapons?
Whats the point in putting the effort in to make sure your shots land when you can shoot at the ground and clear entire rooms with no repercussions?

 

[(PSN)Laughing_Beta]

On 2020-06-06 at 11:37 PM, Kayll said:

This weapon isn't even a bow,it just looks like one,if this was intended to be an "endgame" bow then that's just insulting to people who want to use actual bows.

The introduction of this weapon as a whole is a spit in the face of half the arsenal in the game.
An AoE weapon that deals more damage than single target weapons,shoots faster than some single target weapons.
People couldn't even step back from clearing the entire room they shot into so DE gave in and make broad sweeping changes that effected half the arsenal and made them worse just so these players could mindlessly shoot at their feet.
This mastery argument is pointless,and comparing it to one of the other best in the game weapons does you no favors in justifying this weapons place in the game.

 

it has now mechanics, it looks like  a bow, it uses arrows, it is effected by fire rated mods like  bow, and is even called an explosive bow. If you're that incompetent  to the point where you're denying a bow it's title due to the fact that it has AoE is actually sad. The weapon IS a BOW.

 

If you want to talk about high damage and large range of attack ignore the bramma and go take a look at the red crit zaws that can do more damage and range that the bramma as well as being easier to use and get than bramma. Oh wait they have been in the game for a long time, why would DE just Nerf a weapon for being popular when there are weapons that can do similar or better damage than it. 

 

 

[Umbranoir]

So, I was with a group of friends for the first time after lockdown was lifted slightly and a bunch of us were sat about, chilling.

Suddenly the topic of food comes up and we thought we'd order in. 

After about 15 minutes of deliberation we decided on Burgers. So we went to a certain food delivery website, looked at the menu and each picked our burger.

One of the group of friends doesn't want pickles, so we added as a note that we don't want pickles on the double cheese burger.

When the burgers finally arrived we noticed that none of the burgers had pickles on and came to the conclusion that the person prepping the food saw the note and didn't add pickles to any of the burgers which is a travesty. I like pickles.

That is the Kuva Bramma. I remember when Primary Weapons were great! Usurped by nuke-frames and Melee weapons! Small number of people get crabby about pickles and suddenly no one has pickles.

Make Primaries great again.

[Xaero]

Unfortunately, burgers are bad for health. So Bramma needs to be nerfed.

[Sevek7]

2 minutes ago, Umbranoir said:

So, I was with a group of friends for the first time after lockdown was lifted slightly and a bunch of us were sat about, chilling.

Suddenly the topic of food comes up and we thought we'd order in. 

After about 15 minutes of deliberation we decided on Burgers. So we went to a certain food delivery website, looked at the menu and each picked our burger.

One of the group of friends doesn't want pickles, so we added as a note that we don't want pickles on the double cheese burger.

When the burgers finally arrived we noticed that none of the burgers had pickles on and came to the conclusion that the person prepping the food saw the note and didn't add pickles to any of the burgers which is a travesty. I like pickles.

That is the Kuva Bramma. I remember when Primary Weapons were great! Usurped by nuke-frames and Melee weapons! Small number of people get crabby about pickles and suddenly no one has pickles.

Make Primaries great again.

I'm all for making Primaries great again! However I think the Kuva Bramma is a huge outlier within the primary category that does need to be addressed (and nerfing 1 weapon is a lot easier than buffing a hundred others, while then also needing to buff the enemies to make up for it, checking balance with secondaries, melee, etc...)

I think that it can be done without an outright nerf though. I think the best way to bring the Bramma in line is to have the arrow only explode on contact with an enemy. That way, you still get your giant cluster bomb and wiping the entire room, but now need to aim instead of just shooting blindly at the ground / ceiling. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, Umbranoir said:

When the burgers finally arrived we noticed that none of the burgers had pickles on and came to the conclusion that the person prepping the food saw the note and didn't add pickles to any of the burgers which is a travesty. I like pickles.

That is the Kuva Bramma.

Except that none of your friends would have any negative experince if you ate pickles in their presence, not even the ones that dislike pickles and there are more burger toppings that are as viables as pickles and is only a matter of taste. Bramma can ruin it for others, there are also no comparable weapons that the rest can pick from. Bramma is as if you guys didnt order no pickles on one burger and instead force feed your friend with pickles.

Sorry to hear you didnt get what you ordered.

[Kylo.]

21 minutes ago, Umbranoir said:

That is the Kuva Bramma. I remember when Primary Weapons were great! Usurped by nuke-frames and Melee weapons!

You liked when primaries were good, then nuke frames usurped primaries.

Now you like primaries again, well one of them, a nuke primary?

[Umbranoir]

7 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Unfortunately, burgers are bad for health. So Bramma needs to be nerfed.

I think my health is none of your business, pickle-thief!

7 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

I'm all for making Primaries great again! However I think the Kuva Bramma is a huge outlier within the primary category that does need to be addressed (and nerfing 1 weapon is a lot easier than buffing a hundred others, while then also needing to buff the enemies to make up for it, checking balance with secondaries, melee, etc...)

I think that it can be done without an outright nerf though. I think the best way to bring the Bramma in line is to have the arrow only explode on contact with an enemy. That way, you still get your giant cluster bomb and wiping the entire room, but now need to aim instead of just shooting blindly at the ground / ceiling. 

You're suggesting removing the cheese from a cheeseburger in lieu of pickles?! How dareth thee. You see here is the problem, Kuva Bramma is a great weapon, no doubt but it follows the same string of problems that nigh everything else has in Warframe. 99.99% of content difficulty (at base) is

                                                                                                                 way up here. 

 

 

 

 

way down here and weapon/warframe damage is more often than not

Remember when Ember was being cried about for a nerf because it was too strong but in reality it was just really great at low level and really bad at higher levels? Bramma is almost like that and you can't really make its damage scale by level like Ember. The people who play hard need a hero and the Bramma should be their white knight.

[Umbranoir]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except that none of your friends would have any negative experince if you ate pickles in their presence, not even the ones that dislike pickles and there are more burger toppings that are as viables as pickles and is only a matter of taste. Bramma can ruin it for others, there are also no comparable weapons that the rest can pick from. Bramma is as if you guys didnt order no pickles on one burger and instead force feed your friend with pickles.

Sorry to hear you didnt get what you ordered.

Thanks bro. It wasn't an easy experience.

Counter point: At no point am I forcing anyone to eat pickles in this hypothetical situation. If I WAS armed with a pickle jar and getting ready to start cramming then why, voluntarily, would you stay in that situation when the Warframe household gives you the opportunity to leave at anytime and find a pickle-less room also why are my favourite pickle-themed antics worth less than your pickle-less high-jinks?

[Sevek7]

4 minutes ago, Umbranoir said:

I think my health is none of your business, pickle-thief!

You're suggesting removing the cheese from a cheeseburger in lieu of pickles?! How dareth thee. You see here is the problem, Kuva Bramma is a great weapon, no doubt but it follows the same string of problems that nigh everything else has in Warframe. 99.99% of content difficulty (at base) is

                                                                                                                 way up here. 

 

 

 

 

way down here and weapon/warframe damage is more often than not

Remember when Ember was being cried about for a nerf because it was too strong but in reality it was just really great at low level and really bad at higher levels? Bramma is almost like that and you can't really make its damage scale by level like Ember. The people who play hard need a hero and the Bramma should be their white knight.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I remember ember and was glad that the passive playstyle was removed. Personally, I feel like the bramma is also this passive playstyle where you don't need to bother aiming at enemies, just let an arrow loose randomly into a room and the whole room dies up to level 150. It seems very boring and I understand some people like a game where you can just switch off the brain and auto-win, but personally I prefer a more engaging experience.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

The Bramma is more like ordering a burger and being delivered a brick of cocaine...

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, Umbranoir said:

Thanks bro. It wasn't an easy experience.

Counter point: At no point am I forcing anyone to eat pickles in this hypothetical situation. If I WAS armed with a pickle jar and getting ready to start cramming then why, voluntarily, would you stay in that situation when the Warframe household gives you the opportunity to leave at anytime and find a pickle-less room also why are my favourite pickle-themed antics worth less than your pickle-less high-jinks?

But people leaving in fear of getting pickled wouldnt be a good thing for a resturant. In your group of friends it may not matter, but think what would happen if you were to present those pickles in public? Wars have started for less. So if DE is the resturant they should nerf the pic... Bramma to keep more customers happy in public sittings. And still the bigger problem is that the Bramma simply outperforms both other single target and AoE weapons at the same time.