Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion

[SpringRocker]

9 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

because bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack

The Lenz is exactly the same in regards to ammo mutation.

Guy, if you're going to argue ATLEAST do your research so you know what you're talking about

[SpringRocker]

6 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

I'm done talking to you, this topic is about bramma, not lenz, take your bramma and go test out your theories, put them to practice, then come back here and explain how well it went.

Why do you think I'm talking crap?

You're arguing that I'm wrong saying "bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack" and "test it out". I did, it performs far better than the only other compatible weapon (and also every other non-melee weapon) by a stupid margin.

I think I kind of like your quote though, mind if I use it?

the amount of people not understanding mechanics for something in GAME DESIGN needs a nerf

[StormWolf1337]

14 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

The max ammo was lowered, It's still the best non-melee weapon and unless you're missing every shot it doesn't even matter or make much difference.

Yet here you are shouting "REEEEEEE" because the max ammo was dropped from 15 to 5.

My complaints are more than just because of the ammo pool, I think the majority of the comments here reflect that sentiment too. Also in this case you can call my complaints me going "REE" but it doesn't change the fact that they're all correct and reflected by the majority of the WF community. Can't shut down the truth, facts don't care about personal feelings.

[StormWolf1337]

The ammo pool/arrows gained with mutation also completely breaks the flow of action in WF, it's the first time I've had to switch to my secondary every few seconds when in high lvl missions/sorties, melee is always an option but no other weapon completely stops your flow like that. Sure I can use a secondary that'll transition nicely but that's not always an option and most secondaries can't even do a scratch of damage when it's against enhanced enemies. Undoubtedly this has been one of D.E stupidest mistakes ever and a clear attempt to desperately kill a weapon they're clearly salty about. 

Didn't Reb 'jokingly' pressure one of the partners during a session to sell his 60% Bramma? Think that wasn't too long ago, Megan was very entertained by that.

[Kayll]

Well in the rare off chance they do change the ammo economy then I hope they exchange it for something else,something like a 1-1.5 second charge since I think that matches the damage output.

[Frostyinferno]

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

okay, i'll look for those Enemies that i can't Kill with a Spike Damage Weapon.
except i won't find them since Enemies basically don't Level Scale anymore.

🙂

If you think that the Bramma can one-shot every enemy in the game under every circumstance without fail, you clearly haven't used the weapon long enough. Yes, it is powerful, but part of it's power is semi-reliant on statuses and things like Hunter Munitions. When you take this into account, and also remember that enemies don't always appear in huge, clustered groups, and also that enemies don't always drop ammunition, you'll start to see where the issues lie.

Granted, there's still a lot of content where ammo will be no issue if you plan for it. But there is also a decent amount where the Bramma, even with all it's power, will likely dwindle in ammo despite any of your mods. Sorties in particular offer a decent amount of modifiers giving the enemies various forms of Damage Reduction that heavily hamper how long you can actually use the weapon.

[LokiTheCondom]

2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

My complaints are more than just because of the ammo pool, I think the majority of the comments here reflect that sentiment too. Also in this case you can call my complaints me going "REE" but it doesn't change the fact that they're all correct and reflected by the majority of the WF community. Can't shut down the truth, facts don't care about personal feelings.

Your complaints are valid, but there's nothing "correct" about it. And c'mon, you got a couple of forum-goers occasionally agreeing with your sentiment and you're assuming they represent the majority of the community? You can't honestly believe that.

2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

it's the first time I've had to switch to my secondary every few seconds when in high lvl missions/sorties

Have you tried perhaps monitoring the ammo count of your Bramma? Round up as much targets as possible within the blast radius, maybe? If you constantly have to switch between your Bramma and secondary, then it's not the weapon that's having a problem. 

2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Sure I can use a secondary that'll transition nicely but that's not always an option

Why is using a secondary not always an option? Do you just exclusively use the Bramma?

3 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

most secondaries can't even do a scratch of damage when it's against enhanced enemies

I'm inclined to believe you don't even bother modding your secondaries properly. 

3 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Undoubtedly this has been one of D.E stupidest mistakes ever and a clear attempt to desperately kill a weapon they're clearly salty about. 

Hun, unless you were here when DE nerfed Shield Polarize, Radial Javelin, and Energy Vampire into LoS abilities during the Viver incident with them even admitting that it was a knee-jerk reaction on their part, you don't know what are DE's stupidest mistakes. Changing the Bramma isn't a mistake, it's balance. Adapt to the change, or sell it and use the next OP meta primary. 

3 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Why do you think I'm talking crap?

You're arguing that I'm wrong saying "bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack" and "test it out". I did, it performs far better than the only other compatible weapon (and also every other non-melee weapon) by a stupid margin.

I think I kind of like your quote though, mind if I use it?

the amount of people not understanding mechanics for something in GAME DESIGN needs a nerf

Amusing that Lenz has been picking up 1 arrow at a time since its release and someone insists to you that it doesn't. I don't recall players during then ever had to complain about its ammo.

[GreyDeath789]

On 2020-06-12 at 1:23 PM, Thrymm said:

Three times more people using this than anything else is......embarassingly out of control.

Waiting for the Kronen Prime nerf coming...cuz...usage...

Maybe eventually all these nerfs will bring back Tonkor or Telos Boltace to an 'unnerfed' state...oh wait..DE doesn't do balance passes on the game they do nerf passes on the game...

Oh well..Kronen Prime nerf in under 3 months...

[StormWolf1337]

19 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

Your complaints are valid, but there's nothing "correct" about it. And c'mon, you got a couple of forum-goers occasionally agreeing with your sentiment and you're assuming they represent the majority of the community? You can't honestly believe that.

Have you tried perhaps monitoring the ammo count of your Bramma? Round up as much targets as possible within the blast radius, maybe? If you constantly have to switch between your Bramma and secondary, then it's not the weapon that's having a problem. 

Why is using a secondary not always an option? Do you just exclusively use the Bramma?

I'm inclined to believe you don't even bother modding your secondaries properly. 

Hun, unless you were here when DE nerfed Shield Polarize, Radial Javelin, and Energy Vampire into LoS abilities during the Viver incident with them even admitting that it was a knee-jerk reaction on their part, you don't know what are DE's stupidest mistakes. Changing the Bramma isn't a mistake, it's balance. Adapt to the change, or sell it and use the next OP meta primary. 

Amusing that Lenz has been picking up 1 arrow at a time since its release and someone insists to you that it doesn't. I don't recall players during then ever had to complain about its ammo.

So your whole approach is try to prove everything I say is wrong? Turns out everything I've said is right. If I have to switch all the time when I don't with any other weapon in the whole game then SIMPLE COMMON SENSE would tell you that something is wrong with the weapon's ammo pool itself. Secondary is not always an option since many sorties limit you eg; melee/assault/sniper/bow only. 

Since everyone I've played with thus far use a Bramma/ have one/ like it and hate the nerf then I'm inclined to believe that yes, it is the majority of players that feel that way. If you need a poll then do go ahead but I think D.E saying the Brammas usage is too high is indication enough of it's popularity. 

Since you don't seem aware of enemy enhancements vs secondaries nor seem aware about mission restrictions for sorties I can tell modding isn't your problem at all, no no, your problem is that you haven't played Warframe enough to be correctly speak/ be right about anything you say.

And I'm so sorry I don't know all of D.E's mistakes, please lend me your bible on it. We'll pray at their altar together after.

I never said anything about the Lenz, but now that you mention it, since it has built in ammo mutation and very different usage however it's a weak comparison to the Bramma for the argument of ammo capacity. One's an AOE bubble that takes a while to detonate then allow another bubble to go off and detonate too, the Bramma is like any other bow with it's charge/fire. They're world's apart in function, being a bow that goes boom is the only comparison there.

Answering your redundant questions is honestly a bit exhausting, even for a forum, try a different format. Since you have all that time to look up quotes for a small detail to base your arguments on then scour this thread for comments about the questions you've asked since everything has already been answered. I can tell that the Bramma deeply offends you, now that's your problem, not mine.

[LokiTheCondom]

1 minute ago, StormWolf1337 said:

So your whole approach is try to prove everything I say is wrong? Turns out everything I've said is right. If I have to switch all the time when I don't with any other weapon in the whole game then SIMPLE COMMON SENSE would tell you that something is wrong with the weapon's ammo pool itself. Secondayr is not always an option since many sorties limit you eg; melee/assault/sniper/bow only.

Since you don't seem aware of enemy enhancements vs secondaries nor seem aware about mission restrictions for sorties I can tell modding isn't your problem at all, no no, your problem is that you haven't played Warframe enough to be correctly speak/ be right about anything you say.

I said your complaints are valid but not correct in the sense which you seem to pass it off as pure fact. Never have I said you are wrong. I literally went through the enemy enhancement sorties today with a basic Bramma, the ammo pool wasn't even an issue. You insist that your experience is the "truth" and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong, is my truth not as valid as yours then?

And pardon me, you seem to imply even outside of sortie you wouldn't touch your secondary instead exclusively sorties only. And I've played Warframe long enough, longer than you I dare say. That's a 'fact' and 'facts' don't care about personal feelings.

10 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

I never said anything about the Lenz, your mistake there. Since it has built in ammo mutation and very different usage however it's a weak comparison to the Bramma for the argument of ammo capacity.

 

I was quoting and responding to @SpringRocker. Read.

11 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Since you have all that time to look up quotes for a small detail to base your arguments on then scour this thread for comments about the questions you've asked since everything has already been answered. I can tell that the Bramma deeply offends you, now that's your problem, not mine.

Sorry, I prefer to break down paragraphs to respond accordingly instead of tossing a wall of text. Plus I love the Bramma as much as you, but not religiously to the point that something as menial as a lil ammo change can make me burst. Thanks for answering some of my questions at least, I'll give you that. 

 

[StormWolf1337]

19 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

I said your complaints are valid but not correct in the sense which you seem to pass it off as pure fact. Never have I said you are wrong. I literally went through the enemy enhancement sorties today with a basic Bramma, the ammo pool wasn't even an issue. You insist that your experience is the "truth" and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong, is my truth not as valid as yours then?

And pardon me, you seem to imply even outside of sortie you wouldn't touch your secondary instead exclusively sorties only. And I've played Warframe long enough, longer than you I dare say. That's a 'fact' and 'facts' don't care about personal feelings.

I was quoting and responding to @SpringRocker. Read.

Sorry, I prefer to break down paragraphs to respond accordingly instead of tossing a wall of text. Plus I love the Bramma as much as you, but not religiously to the point that something as menial as a lil ammo change can make me burst. Thanks for answering some of my questions at least, I'll give you that. 

 

Weird, I shot a Nox that was lvl 120 with enhancements and he didn't die, neither the Heavy Gunners next to him, took quite a few arrows so it was a problem. Ammo was a huge problem there, only problem really since I had a CC + MS + DM riven on the Bramma too. 

Time in Warframe doesn't always equal more knowledge about the game as is apparent in many cases, but good for you if you've played longer than me. Don't know how many leaps of logic it takes to make that a fact but again, good for you. I'm not much of a fan of being abused by RNG wasting my time in free-to play games honestly. 

I do use secondaries but none are really any fun compared to primaries so they're always a second option.

Maybe I'm about to "burst" as you put it because what D.E did was a complete head-in-arse move to kill one of the few remaining spots of fun in their game, Gauss and the Bramma were the only reasons I even log in and do sorties still, my games list is always full of something else to do.

I'm not insisting that my experience is the truth, just that the majority of opinions/player experiences support that no one is enjoying the ridiculous nerf.

[LokiTheCondom]

1 minute ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Weird, I shot a Nox that was lvl 120 with enhancements and he didn't die, neither the Heavy Gunners next to him, took quite a few arrows so it was a problem. Ammo was a huge problem there, only problem really since I had a CC + MS + DM riven on the Brama too. 

 

You're using a launcher designated against clearing mobs on a heavy unit that resists everything but headshots. Are you really surprised? Diversify your loadout, the game gave you a secondary and a melee slot for a reason. If you're so unfortunate to come across a weapon restriction sortie and you're hard on wanting to bring Bramma along, some enemies are best left ignored.

I don't know about you but I run Hunter Munitions, I don't have a Riven and 2 shots can dust out LV170 Gunners. I wager you shouldn't have any issue with HM+Riven. 

3 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Time in Warframe doesn't always equal more knowledge about the game as is apparent in many cases, but good for you if you've played longer than me. I'm not much of a fan of being abused by RNG wasting my time in free-to play games honestly.

 

You used the "You haven't played long enough to know what you're talking about" card, and when I claim I do it's "Time =/= knowledge". Which is it, then? 

14 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Maybe I'm about to "burst" as you put it because what D.E did was a complete head-in-arse move to kill one of the few remaining spots of fun in their game, Gauss and the Bramma were the only reasons I even log in and do sorties still, my games list is always full of something else to do.

I'm not insisting that my experience is the truth, just that the majority of opinions/player experiences support that no one is enjoying the ridiculous nerf.

Well I can totally empathize your frustration but to be frank, anyone that knows DE saw this change coming from miles away. Be glad that the primary damage and charge rate is left untouched. If and when that hits I'll be more than obliged to send you a Forma bundle.

[StormWolf1337]

4 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

You're using a launcher designated against clearing mobs on a heavy unit that resists everything but headshots. Are you really surprised? Diversify your loadout, the game gave you a secondary and a melee slot for a reason. If you're so unfortunate to come across a weapon restriction sortie and you're hard on wanting to bring Bramma along, some enemies are best left ignored.

I don't know about you but I run Hunter Munitions, I don't have a Riven and 2 shots can dust out LV170 Gunners. I wager you shouldn't have any issue with HM+Riven. 

You used the "You haven't played long enough to know what you're talking about" card, and when I claim I do it's "Time =/= knowledge". Which is it, then? 

Well I can totally empathize your frustration but to be frank, anyone that knows DE saw this change coming from miles away. Be glad that the primary damage and charge rate is left untouched. If and when that hits I'll be more than obliged to send you a Forma bundle.

Cool, so what's your argument then? Nothing you've said so far has justified the nerf.

This was honestly exhausting enough already, I'm not here to argue semantics, it's a waste of both of our time.

Ps, His head armor was broken, Gunners weren't resisting everything besides the enhancement, they took a few arrows regardless as I said.

[LokiTheCondom]

Just now, StormWolf1337 said:

Cool, so what's your argument then? Nothing you've said so far has justified the nerf.

Vigilante Supplies >> Exilus Slot. Didn't even need an Exilus for my Bramma. Swapped out Bladed Rounds and called it a day.

This one simple trick makes this "nerf" never happen. Even got a free 10% chance for orange crits. Oh, and pick your targets wisely. 

[StormWolf1337]

Just now, LokiTheCondom said:

Vigilante Supplies >> Exilus Slot. Didn't even need an Exilus for my Bramma. Swapped out Bladed Rounds and called it a day.

This one simple trick makes this "nerf" never happen. Even got a free 10% chance for orange crits. Oh, and pick your targets wisely. 

Already did that, even without using Gauss' 4 it still breaks my flow and is an issue for me. I usually head-shot 95% of everything around too, wise shots or not it's still a massive pain and irritation compared to before the nerf.

[Thrymm]

2 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Weird, I shot a Nox that was lvl 120 with enhancements and he didn't die, neither the Heavy Gunners next to him, took quite a few arrows so it was a problem. Ammo was a huge problem there, only problem really since I had a CC + MS + DM riven on the Brama too. 

Time in Warframe doesn't always equal more knowledge about the game as is apparent in many cases, but good for you if you've played longer than me. I'm not much of a fan of being abused by RNG wasting my time in free-to play games honestly.

Maybe I'm about to "burst" as you put it because what D.E did was a complete head-in-arse move to kill one of the few remaining spots of fun in their game, Gauss and the Bramma were the only reasons I even log in and do sorties still, my games list is always full of something else to do.

I'm not insisting that my experience is the truth, just that the majority of opinions/player experiences support that no one is enjoying the ridiculous nerf.

Don't shoot Nox with your Bramma then.  And no, I don't mean that in some snarky way, it's a mechanics thing.  Nox are vulnerable to headshots and take trivial damage from anything else.  There's no way your going to body shot or AE down Nox with any reasonable amount of shots from any weapon.  Unless you're using the Bramma for headshots, it's not going to be very effective against them. 

Heavy Gunners have relatively high armor, and it's ferrite, which means that radiation damage gets no bonus against them(I don't know how you're built).  Being a heavy unit, they are designed to outlive the things the smaller units die immediately from, so it's quite reasonable that they'll survive.  At current, Viral will work the best if you're proccing status, corrosive will likely give you a better burst without status procs.

There are no limitations on secondaries that I'm aware of, and no penalties directly related to them.

Nobody ever enjoys nerfs.  Ever. nerfs aren't fun, being effective is fun.  Waking up and finding yourself less effective is not enjoyable to anyone.  That doesn't mean a person can't believe they positively affect the health of the game and for those of us that have been around a long time, I think you'll find we care about that a whole lot more than any one, singular weapon because we don't intend to go anywhere.  This one is barely a ripple compared to others we've seen.

There is no penalty to secondary weapons.  They work fine.  In fact, secondaries have a better mod set than primaries and have for longer than you've played the game.  I've never seen this claimed in almost seven years, and still gave you the benefit of the doubt and looked around for any information on it today, and found nothing.  If yours sucks as a backup, by all means tell us what it is and what mods are on it and we can tell you how to make changes that'll fix it.  Off the cuff I'd suggest a single shot secondary like the Lex Prime, Vasto Prime, or Akmagnus to compensate for your poor ammo economy primary as well as give you stopping power for headshot enemies like Nox and the occasional stubborn heavy.

Incidentally, the justification for the nerf is to reduce the usage of the Bramma.  You don't have to like it.  I don't have to either.  I gave you the paragraph in which Rebecca explained it, you essentially called me a worshiper or some such ignorant trash.  But that's how DE does it.  If too many people use something, they take it as a sign that it's overpowered, briefly look at the situation it's causing, and USUALLY nerf it into the ground to the point that people sell it out of their armory.  The Bramma got off unbelievably light, almost untouched.

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Frostyinferno said:

If you think that the Bramma can one-shot every enemy in the game under every circumstance without fail, you clearly haven't used the weapon long enough. Yes, it is powerful, but part of it's power is semi-reliant on statuses and things like Hunter Munitions. When you take this into account, and also remember that enemies don't always appear in huge, clustered groups, and also that enemies don't always drop ammunition, you'll start to see where the issues lie.

Granted, there's still a lot of content where ammo will be no issue if you plan for it. But there is also a decent amount where the Bramma, even with all it's power, will likely dwindle in ammo despite any of your mods. Sorties in particular offer a decent amount of modifiers giving the enemies various forms of Damage Reduction that heavily hamper how long you can actually use the weapon.

i've played Endurance Missions with a Supra Modded for maximum Fire Rate, before it got its Stats buffed some years ago.
and didn't run out of Ammo then. and without Mutation. or Vacuum.

and if someone shoots at a single Enemy with an Explosive Weapon, whatever. when you could beyblade with your Melee Weapon and whichever Enemies would die all the same anyways.
sure, maximum Damage per Shot has gone down. still high enough that whatever is nearby the general vicinity of the impact is going to die anyways.

[StormWolf1337]

Just now, Thrymm said:

Don't shoot Nox with your Bramma then.  And no, I don't mean that in some snarky way, it's a mechanics thing.  Nox are vulnerable to headshots and take trivial damage from anything else.  There's no way your going to body shot or AE down Nox with any reasonable amount of shots from any weapon.  Unless you're using the Bramma for headshots, it's not going to be very effective against them. 

Heavy Gunners have relatively high armor, and it's ferrite, which means that radiation damage gets no bonus against them(I don't know how you're built).  Being a heavy unit, they are designed to outlive the things the smaller units die immediately from, so it's quite reasonable that they'll survive.  At current, Viral will work the best if you're proccing status, corrosive will likely give you a better burst without status procs.

There are no limitations on secondaries that I'm aware of, and no penalties directly related to them.

Nobody ever enjoys nerfs.  Ever. nerfs aren't fun, being effective is fun.  Waking up and finding yourself less effective is not enjoyable to anyone.  That doesn't mean a person can't believe they positively affect the health of the game and for those of us that have been around a long time, I think you'll find we care about that a whole lot more than any one, singular weapon because we don't intend to go anywhere.  This one is barely a ripple compared to others we've seen.

There is no penalty to secondary weapons.  They work fine.  In fact, secondaries have a better mod set than primaries and have for longer than you've played the game.  I've never seen this claimed in almost seven years, and still gave you the benefit of the doubt and looked around for any information on it today, and found nothing.  If yours sucks as a backup, by all means tell us what it is and what mods are on it and we can tell you how to make changes that'll fix it.  Off the cuff I'd suggest a single shot secondary like the Lex Prime, Vasto Prime, or Akmagnus to compensate for your poor ammo economy primary as well as give you stopping power for headshot enemies like Nox and the occasional stubborn heavy.

Incidentally, the justification for the nerf is to reduce the usage of the Bramma.  You don't have to like it.  I don't have to either.  I gave you the paragraph in which Rebecca explained it, you essentially called me a worshiper or some such ignorant trash.  But that's how DE does it.  If too many people use something, they take it as a sign that it's overpowered, briefly look at the situation it's causing, and USUALLY nerf it into the ground to the point that people sell it out of their armory.  The Bramma got off unbelievably light, almost untouched.

Then D.E needs some people that understand fun on their team to stop them screwing up so badly. My previous comment should've cleared up the head-shots vs a Nox bit. I go for viral/corrosive already, don't see how that's really related to the ammo pool problem but cool. 

All of what you said makes sense but it falls apart when we consider that it's a PvE game with no actual challenge besides a few bosses. Fun is the only factor that should matter here. Off the cuff dude, why are you making suggestions based on incorrect assumptions about my weapon usage/knowledge of WF/ammo usage?

[Thrymm]

40 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Then D.E needs some people that understand fun on their team to stop them screwing up so badly. My previous comment should've cleared up the head-shots vs a Nox bit. I go for viral/corrosive already, don't see how that's really related to the ammo pool problem but cool. 

All of what you said makes sense but it falls apart when we consider that it's a PvE game with no actual challenge besides a few bosses. Fun is the only factor that should matter here. Off the cuff dude, why are you making suggestions based on incorrect assumptions about my weapon usage/knowledge of WF/ammo usage?

My incorrect assumption about your secondary is based on your own assertion right here:

2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Since you don't seem aware of enemy enhancements vs secondaries nor seem aware about mission restrictions for sorties I can tell modding isn't your problem at all, no no, your problem is that you haven't played Warframe enough to be correctly speak/ be right about anything you say.
 

•  

And here:

5 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

most secondaries can't even do a scratch of damage when it's against enhanced enemies

There is no enemy enhancement vs secondaries.  There are physical and elemental enhanced enemies in sorties, but none whatsoever that specifically target secondaries that I've ever seen(and to the best of my knowledge, I've seen literally all of it).  If you're seriously not scratching enemies then it seemed reasonable to believe that it's modded wrong, because most of them will comfortably kill all of the enemies you'll encounter and some of them will straight one shot the level 100 third mission enemies right through the enhancement resistances.  If I am incorrect, please refer me to the resource, such as a wiki page, that will educate me otherwise.  I'm always open to learning something new.

From these things, it seemed as if you're having some kind of mechanical difficulty, either in loadout or modding.  If that's not the case, by all means disregard.

Anyway, moving on.

The reason that balance needs to exist in PvE is to prevent stagnation.  You may love the snot out of your Bramma right now, and that's fine(or hate it, whichever, doesn't matter).  If too many people are loving their Bramma exclusively, all that other content isn't getting love.  When that happens, people get bored of their one, singular choice of weapon and move on.  Maybe you personally won't, maybe you personally will, it doesn't matter.  What matters is that as a group, people will move on to something with more variety.  As such, it's in the best interest to have at least a relative balance within PvE itemization so that players can experience what is usually referred to as "the illusion of choice". 

This also helps to reduce frustration from any players who are not enamored with the current most powerful PvE weapon, because they no longer have to operate with the knowledge that they are willfully using subpar gear, as most people prefer not to do that. 

So overall, the games health improves when itemization is relatively balanced, and PvE balance actually matters.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

14 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You are wrong. You said the Bramma is overpowered. My 1 forma Lenz kills level 140 enemies just as well.

This is the only statement I need to tell you are wrong. Because you somehow imply causation here, when there is none. What does Lenz killing lvl140 prove, exactly? You have shown no comparative evidence of Lenz doing that better than the Bramma. I have shown quite the opposite. But you ignored it of course, it doesn’t fit your narrative. It is baffling that you do not seem to grasp the difference between absolute and relative power. It is baffling that you boast about the Lenz being better than the Bramma, without showing AoE tests against groups, which is the most viable way to kill in this game. It is also baffling that you keep resorting to cheap insults for... what exactly? Feeling validated? Trying to demean someone who’s actually trying to approach this logically, instead of relying on anger and sentiments?

[StormWolf1337]

21 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

My incorrect assumption about your secondary is based on your own assertion right here:

•  

And here:

There is no enemy enhancement vs secondaries.  There are physical and elemental enhanced enemies in sorties, but none whatsoever that specifically target secondaries that I've ever seen(and to the best of my knowledge, I've seen literally all of it).  If you're seriously not scratching enemies then it seemed reasonable to believe that it's modded wrong, because most of them will comfortably kill all of the enemies you'll encounter and some of them will straight one shot the level 100 third mission enemies right through the enhancement resistances.  If I am incorrect, please refer me to the resource, such as a wiki page, that will educate me otherwise.  I'm always open to learning something new.

From these things, it seemed as if you're having some kind of mechanical difficulty, either in loadout or modding.  If that's not the case, by all means disregard.

Anyway, moving on.

The reason that balance needs to exist in PvE is to prevent stagnation.  You may love the snot out of your Bramma right now, and that's fine(or hate it, whichever, doesn't matter).  If too many people are loving their Bramma exclusively, all that other content isn't getting love.  When that happens, people get bored of their one, singular choice of weapon and move on.  Maybe you personally won't, maybe you personally will, it doesn't matter.  What matters is that as a group, people will move on to something with more variety.  As such, it's in the best interest to have at least a relative balance within PvE itemization so that players can experience what is usually referred to as "the illusion of choice". 

This also helps to reduce frustration from any players who are not enamored with the current most powerful PvE weapon, because they no longer have to operate with the knowledge that they are willfully using subpar gear, as most people prefer not to do that. 

So overall, the games health improves when itemization is relatively balanced, and PvE balance actually matters.

Dude.. Enhancements on enemies affect ALL weapons and overall damage potential to those enemies. If you can bypass a sortie enhancement with a secondary, dude... Come on..

Primed mods + Rivens, my secondaries are modded right, trust me. Many are nice but only a few do high dps but an even smaller pool of those are visually interesting to use but most of the fun ones are just not efficient to use, by now you should realize that fun is the main discerning factor here for me, not dps really. The Twin Rogga is a good example, Akarius even, atrocious reload times. I'd use a Tombfinger/other kitgun most times and it does the job but it's not fun to me compared to an Acceltra/Shedu/Khom/Drakgoon/Ogris. I don't mind using them but the limited set of interesting ones makes me prefer primaries.

And say what you will, Warframe's only last leg is fun. That's the whole reason we play this game, it's not a job, a time investment yeah but if this wasn't fun then much less of us would be here. Trying to kill a very fun part of the game that's clearly extremely popular can only be seen as a dumb move regardless of any reasons, balance being the least of them to me. At no point have I ever felt less because of getting less kills or not using a meta weapon, I fully well realize that a Saryn on any map will out kill everything even if it had a Fat-man and unlimited ammo nor would I be selfish enough to deny other players something fun because of my feelings towards it. Warframe is anything but balanced, attacking one of the few fun bits remaining with such a blatantly BS nerf is just wrong from every angle.

[Bandileros]

13 hours ago, Uthael said:

I'm just happy I get to play Public again.
Without the visual and audio spam, I mean

This is really disgusting.

The visual effects bother you - you whine that the brahma is too strong, it is made unplayable.

You are satisfied.
Say that visual effects bother you? No no no...

[Kefirno]

I don't walk over every single corpse to pick everything enemies dropped. But to sustain Bramma I have to. Nerfed ammo pickups was more than enough. Having tiny ammo pool just adds a stupid space janitor minigame.

Exilus slot is not an excuse. Wasting another forma to craft a bandaid for a forma sink weapon shouldn't even be considered when "balancing" it. I can nuke a room much more efficiently and with much less forma investment by just using a nukeframe. Or killing everything with melee. But DE probably thinks that spamming 4 or E is more fun and engaging than aiming at least in general direction of enemies and avoiding self-staggers.

[Bandileros]

57 minutes ago, Kefirno said:

I don't walk over every single corpse to pick everything enemies dropped. But to sustain Bramma I have to. Nerfed ammo pickups was more than enough. Having tiny ammo pool just adds a stupid space janitor minigame.

Exilus slot is not an excuse. Wasting another forma to craft a bandaid for a forma sink weapon shouldn't even be considered when "balancing" it. I can nuke a room much more efficiently and with much less forma investment by just using a nukeframe. Or killing everything with melee. But DE probably thinks that spamming 4 or E is more fun and engaging than aiming at least in general direction of enemies and avoiding self-staggers.

Bram spam is the most stupid excuse I've heard.
Nerf Brahm is the most stupid nerf you can imagine.

The number of people wanting something nerf in cooperative PvE game about the farm - in need of hard nerf.

 

Also DE haven't reverted the change yet?

What are they hoping for? I spent 40 hours to get this bow. I will spend 400, if necessary, on the forum, so that everyone hears that they treated me like that.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

This is the only statement I need to tell you are wrong.

Actually, you need facts to do that. Your argument gets worse and worse every post at this point.

You are better off being honest and admitting that "The Bramma is pretty comparable in terms of Dps with the Lenz. But it's popular, and I hate nice things."
 

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Because you somehow imply causation here, when there is none. What does Lenz killing lvl140 prove, exactly?

So you claimed that the Bramma was overpowered.

Lmao. Your argument gets worse and worse by the minute. So the definition of "overpowered" is as following:

o·ver·pow·er

/ˌōvərˈpou(ə)r/

 

verb

past tense: overpowered; past participle: overpowered

1. overcome with superior strength.

This is the definition of overpowered. I compare both the Lenz and the Bramma with the same mods, against the same enemy, in the same situation. The Bramma doesn't have superior strength to the Lenz. It has comparable strength.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

You have shown no comparative evidence of Lenz doing that better than the Bramma.

Except that I compared the Lenz and the Bramma with the exact same mod setup. The Bramma took 5x the amount of shots the Lenz took to kill it. I even purposely wait for slash procs to tick, so in the demonstration, I only fired as many shots as was necessary.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

 I have shown quite the opposite.

Really? Is that so? Link me the video you made where you compared the Lenz and the Bramma with identical builds. You are a liar, until you do so. Meanwhile, I made several examples of the Lenz and Bramma.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

But you ignored it of course, it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Do you know what "projection" means.

Its a word that means you accuse me of what you are guilty of. Here you are projecting. You ignored my video evidence comparing these weapons because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Likewise, you are too scared to compare the weapons yourself.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

It is baffling that you do not seem to grasp the difference between absolute and relative power.

Except that I know more about the Lenz and the Bramma after a few days of testing then you do. I understand how these weapons work, I understand how when and why the Lenz beats the Bramma. You only know the Bramma, so you insist it's overpowered when you are completely ignorant of everything else.

I know both weapons short comings, and strengths. The Bramma would be overpowered if it simply had one change. One, itsy, bitsy change. If the Bramma had a 50% crit chance, it would be Op.

I have a question for you. Would you prefer a 100% chance to do 31k true damage and a 36% chance to do 130k true damage that ignores armor, OR would you prefer a 26% chance to do 51k true damage.

Answer this question above honestly.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

It is baffling that you boast about the Lenz being better than the Bramma, without showing AoE tests against groups, which is the most viable way to kill in this game.

Except one little problem there chief. I could show you how the Lenz does against AoE test targets. You would ignore it again. I showed the performance of each bow with the same mods against a single target so you could see the difference between the two bows in a fair comparison.

Doing the same comparison in an AoE situation leads to the same result. The Bramma has a slightly larger AoE area. But the performance of the bows doesn't change. The Lenz still comes out on top.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

It is also baffling that you keep resorting to cheap insults for... what exactly?

For the sake of being honest. Your arguments get worse, and worse, and worse. You clutch at straws, you ignore blatant evidence. You can't even admit that the lenz outperformed the Bramma.

I have no reason to accuse you of being intelligent. So until then, I won't.

6 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Trying to demean someone who’s actually trying to approach this logically?

Let's be honest Shon. Your entire argument is based on anger. You have no facts. What evidence have you examined? Where are your own comparisons? Show me the math you have done.

You are pathetic. Did I show a video with the Bramma and the Lenz against the same level 140 enemy? Yes. Where the mods in both weapons the same? Yes. Did the Bramma take more shots to kill the enemy? Yes.

Did I fake anything? No. The maximum performance of these weapons is tied to a 30% chance to proc a bleed. The Bramma has a lower chance to proc this bleed then the Lenz.
However you cannot admit this, as that would require you to be honest.

Now. You aren't going to change my mind. You argument only gets weaker and weaker. Unless you actually take the time to research both weapons, don't bother replying. You are so delusional, that it's honestly sad.

If you want me to make an AoE video comparison between the Lenz and the Bramma, ask for one. Otherwise, stop pretending the Bramma is the boogeyman in the closet.