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Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion


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5 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

I used to do solo defense arbs with a Lenz up against +enemies around level 280...

The Bramma has a lot more power than the Lenz, yet it's not really an issue with the Lenz. I'm sorry, but you "clearly have not even tried to use the Bramma", unless you're spam shooting no where near enemies, then I can see the problem but that's on you.

Could you please explain more, I'm very curious how you can shoot an enemy several times with bramma to kill it to only get 1 arrow back and somehow keep going, your talking about lens and bramma on high level, so enlighten me, how does that work with bramma.

Edited by IIAc3sII
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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, IIAc3sII said:

Could you please explain more, I'm very curious how you can shoot an enemy several times with bramma to kill it to only get 1 arrow back and somehow keep going, your talking about lens and bramma on high level, so enlighten me, how does that work with bramma.

Because you're not just shooting one enemy at a time? I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

Thing is, if that really was an issue then having a 15 max instead of 5 wouldn't make a difference.

Edited by SpringRocker
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8 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Because you're not just shooting one enemy at a time? I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

I dont understand what your trying to say either, you speak about lvl 280 enemies that require several shots to kill with bramma, yet you somehow want to pretend that you dont run out of that 5 ammo capacity when all you get is 1 arrow back after spending several arrows and you can keep going?

Sorry but I call BS on that, show me a video of you doing that please, and stop comparing lens to bramma because lens can pickup several ammo at once while bramma can not.

High level enemies, several shots to kill, you only got 5 arrows and get less arrows back than you spend, simple math will tell you how that ends, but apparently you have some secret math going on so back it up with proof then.

Edited by IIAc3sII
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

I dont understand what your trying to say either, you speak about lvl 280 enemies that require several shots to kill with bramma, yet you somehow want to pretend that you dont run out of that 5 ammo capacity when all you get is 1 arrow back after spending several arrows and you can keep going?

Sorry but I call BS on that, show me a video of you doing that please, and stop comparing lens to bramma because lens can pickup several ammo at once while bramma can not.

High level enemies, several shots to kill, you only got 5 arrows and get less arrows back than you spend, simple math will tell you how that ends, but apparently you have some secret math going on so back it up with proof then.

 

Guy, you're excluding part of what I wrote:

18 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Thing is, if that really was an issue then having a 15 max instead of 5 wouldn't make a difference.

 

Thing is that people use it because it deals HUGE amounts of damage to everything in the aoe (not even including cluster bombs, that's another huge source of damage).

Don't even try making an argument that you're only shooting 1 thing at a time. If you were only shooting one thing at a time anyway then your argument that having 15 max makes a difference falls apart anyway.

Edited by SpringRocker
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12 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Guy, you're excluding part of what I wrote

Because that part is meaningless, just like the rest that you write, your doing nothing but speculating while its obvious you havnt even used the bramma for high level enemies.

You only used lens for high level enemies and because of that you now compare lens to bramma and pretend that you can also do this with bramma on high level, which is BS because its untrue, you will run out of ammo on bramma in no time and you won't be able to use it anymore.

Prove what your saying is true then, cause so far all you said is like magical castles in the clouds based on experience from another weapon.

(I use weapon A so therefor I can also do it with weapon B, but I have not tried it with weapon B yet) <- this is your logic and reasoning why bramma is nerfed correctly and why you can use it on level 280 enemies, seriously?

Edited by IIAc3sII
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36 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

Honey, if enemies dont die instantly because they become too high level its not possible to pickup those Ammo Pickups
Go use bramma for anything that requires several shots to kill

okay, i'll look for those Enemies that i can't Kill with a Spike Damage Weapon.
except i won't find them since Enemies basically don't Level Scale anymore.

:)

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9 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

Because that part is meaningless, just like the rest that you write, your doing nothing but speculating while its obvious you havnt even used the bramma for high level enemies.

Guy, I you didn't think out your argument:

32 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

yet you somehow want to pretend that you dont run out of that 5 ammo capacity when all you get is 1 arrow back after spending several arrows and you can keep going?

If you shoot 5 arrows and only get 1 back, having a max of 15 isn't going to help you.

 

As for:

12 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

(I use weapon A so therefor I can also do it with weapon B, but I have not tried it with weapon B yet) <- this is your logic and reasoning why bramma is nerfed correctly and why you can use it on level 280 enemies, seriously?

Lenz: 7.2M AOE, 680 damage.

Bramma: 8.3M AOE, 1442 damage. (including unique kuva damage buff property, NO clusters)

Once again, not even taking cluster bombs into account. Slap on ammo mutation on exilus and there you go.

The Bramma is better in every way, how would it not work even better?

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Generally don't understand how people think Lenz is even in the small ballpark as the Bramma,Bramma getting a free up to 60% damage type of your choosing,extra mod capacity, faster fire rate, and no delay on explosion,not even getting into the smaller nuances its already leagues better.

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8 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

The Bramma is better in every way, how would it not work even better?

because bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack, dude do you even know what were talking about, take your damn bramma and go fight in a mission with high lvl enemies already and THEN come back to explain to us here how it went!

Edited by IIAc3sII
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9 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

because bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack

The Lenz is exactly the same in regards to ammo mutation.

Guy, if you're going to argue ATLEAST do your research so you know what you're talking about

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11 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Guy, if you're going to argue

I'm done talking to you, this topic is about bramma, not lenz, take your bramma and go test out your theories, put them to practice, then come back here and explain how well it went.

Edited by IIAc3sII
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6 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

I'm done talking to you, this topic is about bramma, not lenz, take your bramma and go test out your theories, put them to practice, then come back here and explain how well it went.

Why do you think I'm talking crap?

You're arguing that I'm wrong saying "bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack" and "test it out". I did, it performs far better than the only other compatible weapon (and also every other non-melee weapon) by a stupid margin.

I think I kind of like your quote though, mind if I use it?

the amount of people not understanding mechanics for something in GAME DESIGN needs a nerf

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14 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

The max ammo was lowered, It's still the best non-melee weapon and unless you're missing every shot it doesn't even matter or make much difference.

Yet here you are shouting "REEEEEEE" because the max ammo was dropped from 15 to 5.

My complaints are more than just because of the ammo pool, I think the majority of the comments here reflect that sentiment too. Also in this case you can call my complaints me going "REE" but it doesn't change the fact that they're all correct and reflected by the majority of the WF community. Can't shut down the truth, facts don't care about personal feelings.

Edited by StormWolf1337
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The ammo pool/arrows gained with mutation also completely breaks the flow of action in WF, it's the first time I've had to switch to my secondary every few seconds when in high lvl missions/sorties, melee is always an option but no other weapon completely stops your flow like that. Sure I can use a secondary that'll transition nicely but that's not always an option and most secondaries can't even do a scratch of damage when it's against enhanced enemies. Undoubtedly this has been one of D.E stupidest mistakes ever and a clear attempt to desperately kill a weapon they're clearly salty about. 

Didn't Reb 'jokingly' pressure one of the partners during a session to sell his 60% Bramma? Think that wasn't too long ago, Megan was very entertained by that.

Edited by StormWolf1337
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Well in the rare off chance they do change the ammo economy then I hope they exchange it for something else,something like a 1-1.5 second charge since I think that matches the damage output.

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4 hours ago, taiiat said:

okay, i'll look for those Enemies that i can't Kill with a Spike Damage Weapon.
except i won't find them since Enemies basically don't Level Scale anymore.

🙂

If you think that the Bramma can one-shot every enemy in the game under every circumstance without fail, you clearly haven't used the weapon long enough. Yes, it is powerful, but part of it's power is semi-reliant on statuses and things like Hunter Munitions. When you take this into account, and also remember that enemies don't always appear in huge, clustered groups, and also that enemies don't always drop ammunition, you'll start to see where the issues lie.

Granted, there's still a lot of content where ammo will be no issue if you plan for it. But there is also a decent amount where the Bramma, even with all it's power, will likely dwindle in ammo despite any of your mods. Sorties in particular offer a decent amount of modifiers giving the enemies various forms of Damage Reduction that heavily hamper how long you can actually use the weapon.

Edited by Frostyinferno
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2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

My complaints are more than just because of the ammo pool, I think the majority of the comments here reflect that sentiment too. Also in this case you can call my complaints me going "REE" but it doesn't change the fact that they're all correct and reflected by the majority of the WF community. Can't shut down the truth, facts don't care about personal feelings.

Your complaints are valid, but there's nothing "correct" about it. And c'mon, you got a couple of forum-goers occasionally agreeing with your sentiment and you're assuming they represent the majority of the community? You can't honestly believe that.

2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

it's the first time I've had to switch to my secondary every few seconds when in high lvl missions/sorties

Have you tried perhaps monitoring the ammo count of your Bramma? Round up as much targets as possible within the blast radius, maybe? If you constantly have to switch between your Bramma and secondary, then it's not the weapon that's having a problem. 

2 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Sure I can use a secondary that'll transition nicely but that's not always an option

Why is using a secondary not always an option? Do you just exclusively use the Bramma?

3 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

most secondaries can't even do a scratch of damage when it's against enhanced enemies

I'm inclined to believe you don't even bother modding your secondaries properly. 

3 hours ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Undoubtedly this has been one of D.E stupidest mistakes ever and a clear attempt to desperately kill a weapon they're clearly salty about. 

Hun, unless you were here when DE nerfed Shield Polarize, Radial Javelin, and Energy Vampire into LoS abilities during the Viver incident with them even admitting that it was a knee-jerk reaction on their part, you don't know what are DE's stupidest mistakes. Changing the Bramma isn't a mistake, it's balance. Adapt to the change, or sell it and use the next OP meta primary. 

3 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Why do you think I'm talking crap?

You're arguing that I'm wrong saying "bramma can only get 1 arrow per ammo pack" and "test it out". I did, it performs far better than the only other compatible weapon (and also every other non-melee weapon) by a stupid margin.

I think I kind of like your quote though, mind if I use it?

the amount of people not understanding mechanics for something in GAME DESIGN needs a nerf

Amusing that Lenz has been picking up 1 arrow at a time since its release and someone insists to you that it doesn't. I don't recall players during then ever had to complain about its ammo.

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On 2020-06-12 at 1:23 PM, Thrymm said:

Three times more people using this than anything else is......embarassingly out of control.

Waiting for the Kronen Prime nerf coming...cuz...usage...

Maybe eventually all these nerfs will bring back Tonkor or Telos Boltace to an 'unnerfed' state...oh wait..DE doesn't do balance passes on the game they do nerf passes on the game...

Oh well..Kronen Prime nerf in under 3 months...

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19 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

Your complaints are valid, but there's nothing "correct" about it. And c'mon, you got a couple of forum-goers occasionally agreeing with your sentiment and you're assuming they represent the majority of the community? You can't honestly believe that.

Have you tried perhaps monitoring the ammo count of your Bramma? Round up as much targets as possible within the blast radius, maybe? If you constantly have to switch between your Bramma and secondary, then it's not the weapon that's having a problem. 

Why is using a secondary not always an option? Do you just exclusively use the Bramma?

I'm inclined to believe you don't even bother modding your secondaries properly. 

Hun, unless you were here when DE nerfed Shield Polarize, Radial Javelin, and Energy Vampire into LoS abilities during the Viver incident with them even admitting that it was a knee-jerk reaction on their part, you don't know what are DE's stupidest mistakes. Changing the Bramma isn't a mistake, it's balance. Adapt to the change, or sell it and use the next OP meta primary. 

Amusing that Lenz has been picking up 1 arrow at a time since its release and someone insists to you that it doesn't. I don't recall players during then ever had to complain about its ammo.

So your whole approach is try to prove everything I say is wrong? Turns out everything I've said is right. If I have to switch all the time when I don't with any other weapon in the whole game then SIMPLE COMMON SENSE would tell you that something is wrong with the weapon's ammo pool itself. Secondary is not always an option since many sorties limit you eg; melee/assault/sniper/bow only. 

Since everyone I've played with thus far use a Bramma/ have one/ like it and hate the nerf then I'm inclined to believe that yes, it is the majority of players that feel that way. If you need a poll then do go ahead but I think D.E saying the Brammas usage is too high is indication enough of it's popularity. 

Since you don't seem aware of enemy enhancements vs secondaries nor seem aware about mission restrictions for sorties I can tell modding isn't your problem at all, no no, your problem is that you haven't played Warframe enough to be correctly speak/ be right about anything you say.

And I'm so sorry I don't know all of D.E's mistakes, please lend me your bible on it. We'll pray at their altar together after.

I never said anything about the Lenz, but now that you mention it, since it has built in ammo mutation and very different usage however it's a weak comparison to the Bramma for the argument of ammo capacity. One's an AOE bubble that takes a while to detonate then allow another bubble to go off and detonate too, the Bramma is like any other bow with it's charge/fire. They're world's apart in function, being a bow that goes boom is the only comparison there.

Answering your redundant questions is honestly a bit exhausting, even for a forum, try a different format. Since you have all that time to look up quotes for a small detail to base your arguments on then scour this thread for comments about the questions you've asked since everything has already been answered. I can tell that the Bramma deeply offends you, now that's your problem, not mine.

Edited by StormWolf1337
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1 minute ago, StormWolf1337 said:

So your whole approach is try to prove everything I say is wrong? Turns out everything I've said is right. If I have to switch all the time when I don't with any other weapon in the whole game then SIMPLE COMMON SENSE would tell you that something is wrong with the weapon's ammo pool itself. Secondayr is not always an option since many sorties limit you eg; melee/assault/sniper/bow only.

Since you don't seem aware of enemy enhancements vs secondaries nor seem aware about mission restrictions for sorties I can tell modding isn't your problem at all, no no, your problem is that you haven't played Warframe enough to be correctly speak/ be right about anything you say.

I said your complaints are valid but not correct in the sense which you seem to pass it off as pure fact. Never have I said you are wrong. I literally went through the enemy enhancement sorties today with a basic Bramma, the ammo pool wasn't even an issue. You insist that your experience is the "truth" and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong, is my truth not as valid as yours then?

And pardon me, you seem to imply even outside of sortie you wouldn't touch your secondary instead exclusively sorties only. And I've played Warframe long enough, longer than you I dare say. That's a 'fact' and 'facts' don't care about personal feelings.

10 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

I never said anything about the Lenz, your mistake there. Since it has built in ammo mutation and very different usage however it's a weak comparison to the Bramma for the argument of ammo capacity.

 

I was quoting and responding to @SpringRocker. Read.

11 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Since you have all that time to look up quotes for a small detail to base your arguments on then scour this thread for comments about the questions you've asked since everything has already been answered. I can tell that the Bramma deeply offends you, now that's your problem, not mine.

Sorry, I prefer to break down paragraphs to respond accordingly instead of tossing a wall of text. Plus I love the Bramma as much as you, but not religiously to the point that something as menial as a lil ammo change can make me burst. Thanks for answering some of my questions at least, I'll give you that. 

 

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19 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

I said your complaints are valid but not correct in the sense which you seem to pass it off as pure fact. Never have I said you are wrong. I literally went through the enemy enhancement sorties today with a basic Bramma, the ammo pool wasn't even an issue. You insist that your experience is the "truth" and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong, is my truth not as valid as yours then?

And pardon me, you seem to imply even outside of sortie you wouldn't touch your secondary instead exclusively sorties only. And I've played Warframe long enough, longer than you I dare say. That's a 'fact' and 'facts' don't care about personal feelings.

I was quoting and responding to @SpringRocker. Read.

Sorry, I prefer to break down paragraphs to respond accordingly instead of tossing a wall of text. Plus I love the Bramma as much as you, but not religiously to the point that something as menial as a lil ammo change can make me burst. Thanks for answering some of my questions at least, I'll give you that. 

 

Weird, I shot a Nox that was lvl 120 with enhancements and he didn't die, neither the Heavy Gunners next to him, took quite a few arrows so it was a problem. Ammo was a huge problem there, only problem really since I had a CC + MS + DM riven on the Bramma too. 

Time in Warframe doesn't always equal more knowledge about the game as is apparent in many cases, but good for you if you've played longer than me. Don't know how many leaps of logic it takes to make that a fact but again, good for you. I'm not much of a fan of being abused by RNG wasting my time in free-to play games honestly. 

I do use secondaries but none are really any fun compared to primaries so they're always a second option.

Maybe I'm about to "burst" as you put it because what D.E did was a complete head-in-arse move to kill one of the few remaining spots of fun in their game, Gauss and the Bramma were the only reasons I even log in and do sorties still, my games list is always full of something else to do.

I'm not insisting that my experience is the truth, just that the majority of opinions/player experiences support that no one is enjoying the ridiculous nerf.

Edited by StormWolf1337
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1 minute ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Weird, I shot a Nox that was lvl 120 with enhancements and he didn't die, neither the Heavy Gunners next to him, took quite a few arrows so it was a problem. Ammo was a huge problem there, only problem really since I had a CC + MS + DM riven on the Brama too. 

 

You're using a launcher designated against clearing mobs on a heavy unit that resists everything but headshots. Are you really surprised? Diversify your loadout, the game gave you a secondary and a melee slot for a reason. If you're so unfortunate to come across a weapon restriction sortie and you're hard on wanting to bring Bramma along, some enemies are best left ignored.

I don't know about you but I run Hunter Munitions, I don't have a Riven and 2 shots can dust out LV170 Gunners. I wager you shouldn't have any issue with HM+Riven. 

3 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Time in Warframe doesn't always equal more knowledge about the game as is apparent in many cases, but good for you if you've played longer than me. I'm not much of a fan of being abused by RNG wasting my time in free-to play games honestly.

 

You used the "You haven't played long enough to know what you're talking about" card, and when I claim I do it's "Time =/= knowledge". Which is it, then? 

14 minutes ago, StormWolf1337 said:

Maybe I'm about to "burst" as you put it because what D.E did was a complete head-in-arse move to kill one of the few remaining spots of fun in their game, Gauss and the Bramma were the only reasons I even log in and do sorties still, my games list is always full of something else to do.

I'm not insisting that my experience is the truth, just that the majority of opinions/player experiences support that no one is enjoying the ridiculous nerf.

Well I can totally empathize your frustration but to be frank, anyone that knows DE saw this change coming from miles away. Be glad that the primary damage and charge rate is left untouched. If and when that hits I'll be more than obliged to send you a Forma bundle.

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4 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

You're using a launcher designated against clearing mobs on a heavy unit that resists everything but headshots. Are you really surprised? Diversify your loadout, the game gave you a secondary and a melee slot for a reason. If you're so unfortunate to come across a weapon restriction sortie and you're hard on wanting to bring Bramma along, some enemies are best left ignored.

I don't know about you but I run Hunter Munitions, I don't have a Riven and 2 shots can dust out LV170 Gunners. I wager you shouldn't have any issue with HM+Riven. 

You used the "You haven't played long enough to know what you're talking about" card, and when I claim I do it's "Time =/= knowledge". Which is it, then? 

Well I can totally empathize your frustration but to be frank, anyone that knows DE saw this change coming from miles away. Be glad that the primary damage and charge rate is left untouched. If and when that hits I'll be more than obliged to send you a Forma bundle.

Cool, so what's your argument then? Nothing you've said so far has justified the nerf.

This was honestly exhausting enough already, I'm not here to argue semantics, it's a waste of both of our time.

Ps, His head armor was broken, Gunners weren't resisting everything besides the enhancement, they took a few arrows regardless as I said.

Edited by StormWolf1337
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Just now, StormWolf1337 said:

Cool, so what's your argument then? Nothing you've said so far has justified the nerf.

Vigilante Supplies >> Exilus Slot. Didn't even need an Exilus for my Bramma. Swapped out Bladed Rounds and called it a day.

This one simple trick makes this "nerf" never happen. Even got a free 10% chance for orange crits. Oh, and pick your targets wisely. 

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