Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion

[SpringRocker]

2 hours ago, Shy0 said:

yup, here we go again. you could ask DE to optimise the performance issues or tinker with explosive weapons in general when the self-damage is removed (you can count on explosive weapons being everywhere after that patch, not just the bramma), but nope. bramma too stronk, nerf pl0x. makes me feel like taking my mirage and simulor out again just to annoy people..

seriously though, where will you stop once you start? saryn has way more killing power over a huge area. equinox also has a strong nuke, albeit one that needs charging. nuke mirage is also up there. at least with weapons, you need to aim and land your shots (nearby in explosive cases) instead of just pressing single buttons and wiping entire maps. please just stop with the nerf mentality. so many good weapons were nerfed to the point of uselessness already. at least let the rambow enthusiasts have some fun. it's just a game.

 

On 2020-03-03 at 12:59 PM, SpringRocker said:

• 1641 Single target damage
• 1342 Main explosion

It does much more damage than any non-melee weapon and does it to an area.

It trivializes all other ranged weapons. Look at the unmodded damage numbers from other weapons and compare.

[Dragazer]

 

3 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

 

It does much more damage than any non-melee weapon and does it to an area.

It trivializes all other ranged weapons. Look at the unmodded damage numbers from other weapons and compare.

Quote

No damage buffs have been added, but any weapons with AOE are receiving ~20% increase in Radius. Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. This means on the very outer section of the explosion Radius 10% of the Damage will be dealt.

There, happy now?

[SpringRocker]

7 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

 

There, happy now?

Not really, regardless it's the king of damage, DPS, and AOEs.

Making all AOEs have damage fallout at the outer edge for all weapons isn't the solution, and doesn't change the Bramma (AOEs are still AOEs and the Bramma is still going to be better and the "one weapons for all occasions" at the expense of all other AOE weapons).

[Dragazer]

10 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Not really, regardless it's the king of damage, DPS, and AOEs.

Bring the bramma to Eidolon or profit taker premade group as a dps and see how fast you get kicked. 

10 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Making all AOEs have damage fallout at the outer edge for all weapons isn't the solution, and doesn't change the Bramma.

You aren't just going to get dmg falloff at the end only, its going to be linear falloff 

So in the Bramma's case, you lose 10.7% dmg every meter away from the epicenter of the explosion up til its max range of 8.4m for 90% dmg falloff

 

[Test-995]

Might as well nerf nukor, gaze, lenz, acceltra, and whatever that does AoE  damage.

[(PSN)seanythesheep___]

You really asking for weapons to be nerf in a PVE game ffs man who cares if it’s over powered not hurting anyone is it this happens to all weapons in the game people cry it’s over powered nerf it DE will do this with out you make a post about it how about talk about what’s wrong in the game instead of crying about weapons are over powered 🙄

[SpringRocker]

18 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Bring the bramma to Eidolon or profit taker premade group as a dps and see how fast you get kicked.

You're kidding right? I used to think the same thing (that it would be a terrible weapon for Eidolons) but it's not.

• Rubico Prime (what people tend to use) adjusted base dps = 364.65 (crit avg. to dps)
• Bramma (not adjusting stats, not applying bomblets) = 1641

Hitting a joint applies the explosion damage to it too. I don't know about you, but 1641 is more than 364.65 (unmodded). Yes I know, elements make a difference, but that's what mods are for (using the base damage and changing it to a different damage type).

 

25 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

You aren't just going to get dmg falloff at the end only, its going to be linear falloff 

So in the Bramma's case, you lose 10.7% dmg every meter away from the epicenter of the explosion up til its max range of 8.4m for 90% dmg falloff

Regardless, still the king of damage and AOEs. Nerfing everything around it doesn't make it worse in this case.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Might as well nerf nukor, gaze, lenz, acceltra, and whatever that does AoE  damage.

To be honest I think acceltra is a bit too strong, just wasn't going to say anything about it (it's not really overpowered).

[SpringRocker]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)seanythesheep___ said:

You really asking for weapons to be nerf in a PVE game ffs man who cares if it’s over powered not hurting anyone

Makes all other non-melee weapons trivial.

[Dragazer]

1 minute ago, SpringRocker said:

You're kidding right? I used to think the same thing (that it would be a terrible weapon for Eidolons) but it's not.

• Rubico Prime (what people tend to use) adjusted base dps = 364.65 (crit avg. to dps)
• Bramma (not adjusting stats, not applying bomblets) = 1641

Hitting a joint applies the explosion damage to it too. I don't know about you, but 1641 is more than 364.65 (unmodded). Yes I know, elements make a difference, but that's what mods are for (using the base damage and changing it to a different damage type).

 

Regardless, still the king of damage and AOEs. Nerfing everything around it doesn't make it worse in this case.

 

 

To be honest I think acceltra is a bit too strong, just wasn't going to say anything about it (it's not really overpowered).

You forget that snipers have a combo counter that scales up the dmg incredibly fast for the Rubico. 3x dmg at 27 hits (affected by multishot). Also lets let not forget that explosive weapons don't gain bonus dmg on headshots, so the Rubico prime gets an additional 4x dmg bonus on crit when you headshot.

[SpringRocker]

17 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

You forget that snipers have a combo counter that scales up the dmg incredibly fast for the Rubico. 3x dmg at 27 hits (affected by multishot). Also lets let not forget that explosive weapons don't gain bonus dmg on headshots, so the Rubico prime gets an additional 4x dmg bonus on crit when you headshot.

Well... Math...

• Bramma does almost 5x the damage of the Rubico while you're talking about a 4x multiplier.
• Unless you're multiplying the crit co-efficient by +4.0 you're not going to catch up in terms of dps (not to mention the mods used for that while Bramma is piling more damage in those slots).
• Mean while you're talking about landing 243 hits with a Rubico Prime for that multiplier.
• All the while the mods you stack for crits to close the gap are slots used by the Bramma for more damage.
• Also, as far as I know, yes it has a head but it's not a crit spot. Unless I'm wrong you don't get headshot damage for Eidolons.

Bramma out performs in hunts.

[Dragazer]

5 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Well... Math...

• Bramma does almost 5x the damage of the Rubico while you're talking about a 4x multiplier.
• Unless you're multiplying the crit co-efficient by +4.0 you're not going to catch up in terms of dps (not to mention the mods used for that while Bramma is piling more damage in those slots).
• Mean while you're talking about landing 243 hits with a Rubico Prime for that multiplier.
• All the while the mods you stack for crits to close the gap are slots used by the Bramma for more damage.

Bramma out performs in hunts.

No im talking about the bonus dmg you get on headshots 2x dmg normally, increased to 4x on crits. Explosive weapons like the bramma are completely exempt from this bonus.

[SpringRocker]

1 minute ago, Dragazer said:

No im talking about the bonus dmg you get on headshots 2x dmg normally, increased to 4x on crits. Explosive weapons like the bramma are completely exempt from this bonus.

Unless I'm wrong you don't get headshot damage for Eidolons.

Not that it matters, Bramma still outputs more damage.

[CopperBezel]

1 hour ago, Test-995 said:

Might as well nerf nukor, gaze, lenz, acceltra, and whatever that does AoE  damage.

Per today's workshop notes, everything AoE is getting a nerf - previously it was going to be a 20% boost to damage and radius with a falloff to 50% damage, now it's no damage boost, 20% radius boost, and falloff to 10% damage. That means at 2/3 of the current radius, you're doing 50% of the current damage. 

Kuva Nukor, Gaze, and Atomos aren't considered AoE and already have their own falloff mechanics. 

[Aryustailm]

The self-damage removal comes with a severe nerf to area weapons. Tis no buff, let alone overpowered come this change.

[SpringRocker]

14 minutes ago, Aryustailm said:

The self-damage removal comes with a severe nerf to area weapons. Tis no buff, let alone overpowered come this change.

The removal of self-damage is just really stupid 😕 ... For all the people screaming "Don't be afraid of change, No self damage is a good thing! Everything thing will be better! Don't be such a Chroma!" I don't think realized that it could have resulted in this.

Although I disagree, just because AOE is getting nerfed doesn't mean that the Bramma wont be overpowered still. It will be the hardest hitting weapon AND have an AOE (plus cluster bomblet spread).

 

Although you're right, it's a severe mechanic change and we'll just have to wait and see.

[Aryustailm]

While I'm no Chroma user, the removal of self damage has always worried me. Always felt like there'd be a price to pay for something that just wasn't that big an issue most of the time with most weapons (especially if you consider that Shield Gating is about to put a stop to "I accidentally with my Lenz")

And the currently suggested price is indeed way too high.

[CopperBezel]

Melee and AoE is the meta right now. Nerfing AoE might be an attempt to reel things back in away from that and let guns that shoot one enemy at a time be viable again, but it's not going to work with melee in the glorious state it's in right now. 

[SpringRocker]

13 minutes ago, Aryustailm said:

While I'm no Chroma user, the removal of self damage has always worried me. Always felt like there'd be a price to pay for something that just wasn't that big an issue most of the time with most weapons (especially if you consider that Shield Gating is about to put a stop to "I accidentally with my Lenz")

And the currently suggested price is indeed way too high.

Neither am I (I'm an Ivara) and it worried me too. It would be different if they didn't play their own game and see things coming, but they do (plus, I wouldn't be playing WF if they didn't care about it). The changes are going to happen and probably adjusted in the future, they want the game to be fun and engaging so I wouldn't worry about AOE weapons being useless in the future _{(no I wasn't here for the Tonkor stuff, so I don't know anything about that era)}.

 

7 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Melee and AoE is the meta right now. Nerfing AoE might be an attempt to reel things back in away from that and let guns that shoot one enemy at a time be viable again, but it's not going to work with melee in the glorious state it's in right now. 

Yeah pretty much.

I have yet to take an actual look at melee so I can't REALLY talk much on it. All I can say about melee is that the spin-2-win stuff was annoying, the recent stance changes seem to encourage a different type of spam while having addition scaling, and ultimately it feels like a walking AOE of damage basically (once again, I have yet to examine melee; also that's another topic).

[CopperBezel]

I like the new melee a lot, but the way range works now makes it very AoE. Every stance has four different moves that you can very easily access and have different roles, and slide attacks certainly aren't underpowered and provide a fifth. It generally has a good feel in a beat-em-up application but makes it very difficult to justify switching to a Sybaris or something. 

And yeah, all the multiplicative scaling factors have been reeled back to additive ones, but sitting on top of much higher base stats. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

At the end of the day, we'll always find ways to do astronomical cheesing of these weak ass enemies. What we need isn't a nerf. Kuva Bramma has elevated frames I wouldn't otherwise use to useability, increasing the variety of my gameplay in a way I haven't seen in wf for years. I don't wanna lose that. What we need is some sentient endgame or something. I'm not gonna sit here and watch people push build variety further into the dark ages over delusions of it being the root of easiness in the game or that balance has a place in all this. There are far worse nukes that have been around far longer that arn't even as fun. Sooooo why don't we harass DE about enemy AI or something that will elevate the whole game instead of complaining about one measly thing that allot of people are having a good time with? Or are we gonna be that petty? 

Oh and I should add that pretty much every weapon in the game is gonna soar lightyears higher than necessary in this next mainline. 

[Evsknight]

It's making most multiplayer noisy and frustrating. I've seen people quit group PUG missions because over a bramma user that couldnt keep it in their pants.

'Everyone having one' will make it worse and not better, it's hurting the main meat of the game at the moment.

[(PSN)Mercy-Mirror]

It's not fun to play with children only using bramma regardless of the others aspect of the game. They camp and just fire in the air and wait that we revive them!!! Make me quit a lot of missions. I have it myself and enjoy playing with it but in the respect of others. But I'm a veteran that love all about Warframe since day one.

[SpringRocker]

Well... If shortly after patch release is anything to go by, it seems that the Bramma wasn't slowed down at all.

Meanwhile I can't even use a Zakti because I get staggered from being able to do the finisher.

23 hours ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

What we need isn't a nerf. Kuva Bramma has elevated frames I wouldn't otherwise use to useability, increasing the variety of my gameplay in a way I haven't seen in wf for years.

Having everyone (including their parents, children, grandparents, and "that one guy they know") using a Bramma isn't variety. I saw more variety on any given day when spin-2-win was at it's prime.

I know you mean frames, but the only frame that saw in increase of use because of the Bramma was Rev so people wouldn't take self-damage... Now that it doesn't kill you when shooting at point blank that's going away too.

 

23 hours ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Oh and I should add that pretty much every weapon in the game is gonna soar lightyears higher than necessary in this next mainline.

Nope, now that Bramma is the only AOE weapon that basically keeps it's coverage in addition to it's previous strengths it's now the go to.

Meanwhile all kinds of other weapons stagger you that didn't do anything before. Even shooting a Ferrox can stagger you.

[GPrime96]

What i noticed about Bramma is not only the Arrow give you Self Stagger, the Bomblets also give you Self Stagger. So the Weapon can stagger you no matter what while being in it's Blast Area. The Radial Damage Falloff did a small amount to it's Kill Speed.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

5 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Nope, now that Bramma is the only AOE weapon that basically keeps it's coverage in addition to it's previous strengths it's now the go to.

Meanwhile all kinds of other weapons stagger you that didn't do anything before. Even shooting a Ferrox can stagger you.

Cool, but odd