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Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion


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5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

you took a mission that constantly spawns hordes of enemies which is perfect for getting ammo

Ok, then tell me, where does this "level cap" manifest itself? Because if it doesn't in survival, then it doesn't in ESO, defense, disruption, exterminate, excavation and interception as well, because they spawn enemies with very similar densities. What does this leave? All non-endless missions, which don't even have killing enemies as an objective. I took a survival specifically because it was the fastest way to make enemies scale up. And even then, it took a waste of 40 minutes of my life, for no additional reward, just to reach level 120, from a Kuva Requiem that already started at level 60. In normal missions, even if it existed, you'd never encounter this "level cap". It is a steel path issue at best, a game mode that is totally optional as it yields no power, and even then, you played with a god awful build, so I think there's massive room for improvement there. I'll test as soon as I get the steel path on console. 

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

why didnt you continue until you reached even higher levels

Because you said that the cap was at 120. I knew that claim was absolutely ludicrous, so I went and tested. And lo and behold, the gun did fairly well. You don't seem to understand the consequences of your own claim; "Level cap of 120" means that at that level, the guns becomes totally worthless. That means, it is constantly out of ammo and doesn't kill a thing. That also means, it starts to struggle way before level 120, especially because enemy scaling has its steepest point at level 90, and after that, the curve flattens. Unfortunately my xbox stopped recording after ten minutes, I went up to the 60 minute mark, and with level 150 enemies, the gun was still doing fine. Yeah, it ran out of ammo once, but my claim is simply that the gun is far from useless, while yours is that the gun does become useless at level 120. That was proven false, against the toughest faction in the game, and level 120 is the highest level in which content is relevant, so I think the statement transitions pretty well to the rest of the game. 

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

and you stayed just below the level cap

Hm, what? The video was from level 116 to 135. That's not "Just below", that's on and above.

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

this is a farce, you didnt even try to go high level.

I didn't need to. Your claim was that the level cap was 120, and I showed you that the gun doesn't even struggle at 120. Also, I honestly had no intention to waste time going for endurance. I hoped a survival sortie came around, but I wasn't lucky enough. 

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

Heres an idea, take off Primed Sure Footed, go play in a mission with open areas, then come back with some more "proof".

You see, here's why your claim is completely nonsensical. Firstly, I didn't have Primed Sure Footed on. I used kinetic plating on gauss, which prevents status effects and knockdowns, trait that's accessible and present on many other frames (Titania, Atlas, Nezha, Rhino just to name a few). Secondly, you, as Kardas did, always put a million conditions on whoever tries to disprove your completely general claim. "Bramma has a level cap of 120", but whenever someone shows any evidence, the claim becomes "Bramma has a level cap of 120, but the mission must be non-endless, you must play without knockdown prevention, on an open map, blindfolded, with one hand, only six mods, extinguished dragon key, Fox only, Final Destination." You instantly lose credibility when your claim becomes invalid for half the game modes and any build that keeps the gear's weaknesses in mind.

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

the point is your ignore general gameplay and how most people use the weapon

If people play sub-optimally, should I conform and waste the potential of a piece of gear? Of course, if you draw comparisons with people who don't even know how to build a crit primary, then well, of course the Bramma is useless. And so is 50% of the arsenal. After all, you destroy nullifier bubbles with Bramma by directly shooting at them (instead of the ground, which one shots them, as seen in my video), so you are clearly the expert here.

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

-If you play like you just did with groups of enemies in small hallways, yes the cap will be a higher, OF COURSE, because the bramma is AOE weapon and if you can hit multiple enemies all the time you will OF COURSE get more ammo back which makes the cap go higher, but instead of you recognizing that, you didnt even bother to stay in this mission to go higher level to reach the cap, you stayed just below it because that suits your "bramma OP" narrative. But this you seem to have avoided on purpose.

If those things are so obvious, why didn't you mention them? You could have said "The Bramma has a level cap of 120, but only in these conditions". Instead, here you are making wild claims just to scream "nerf bad". I do not think the Bramma is op right now, I'm merely saying that it isn't useless as you seem to be implying.

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

Bramma does have a level cap due to ammo restriction, which is around level 120 and after that the weapon becomes useless, just because you went above that with equipment and mods perfect for it in a mission that spawned hordes of enemies where an AOE weapon shines best and gives you more ammo back, does not mean there is no level cap, it only means you pulled out every possible trick to go above it, nothing more, nothing less, but if you had continued you would have undoubtedly reached your cap for this specific mission as well, might have been 140, 150, we will never know because you stopped at 130.

Pulled every possible trick... This is hilarious. You know how it would have looked like, had I pulled every trick? Firstly, I would have used a 5 forma Bramma with Primed Cryo Rounds and Infected Clip instead of Cryo Rounds and Malignant Force, giving me approximately 75% more raw damage. Plus, a beastly riven that compressed both Point Strike and Armaments, leaving a slot for ammo drum. A full Vigilante set on the frame, Primed Sure Footed on a Mirage, or hell, just protea/ammo pads to have infinite munition. Magus Anomaly to bunch enemies before shooting. There where multiple ways for me to actually enhance my gameplay, yet you have to nitpick for choosing survival, and using a way to prevent knockdown. Also, the very notion of a "level cap" means that whatever means I try to get above it, I simply can't. If by "pulling tricks" as you say, I can exceed it easily, then it means there was no cap to begin with at that level.

I believe you enjoy the Bramma, otherwise you wouldn't be here criticizing the nerf. I, in fact, like the gun as well; I just thought that before its nerf, it was way too powerful and easy to use. I do not think the gun is OP now, the reduced ammo count and lower status potential put limitations on it. It is in your interest that there are ways to still make the weapon extremely powerful, so you can still enjoy it, isn't it?

8 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

Thank you for finally making a video, but Goddamn man, can't you see for yourself that you already ran out of ammo a few times and that you couldnt have continued for much longer, how can you pretend it has no ammo cap at this point...

I ran out of ammo once, and in that same survival, ran out again some time after the end of the recording. But, running out of ammo doesn't mean the weapon is unusable, you have 2 other weapons for a reason. You literally have to kill 5 enemies with a melee, and can get back on a spree with the Bramma. I think this was the intended way to use the gun since the nerf, for it to have some downtime in exchange for power.

 

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12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

I'll just stick to the factual:

You mean ignore every point that you can't disprove, cause you are too afraid?~

Yea. I thought so 🙂

12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

What's your proof that damage indicators are delayed? 

The map. No enemies =  red enemy markers on the map vanish. The numbers linger after enemies are dead. 

Do both of us a favor~

If you are going to ignore the most of my post cause you lost the argument? Don't bother replying- Or better yet? Just admit you are wrong and go on your way- 

Remember- Ammo doesn't matter 🙂

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12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

That's because eximus have innate 50% DR against all damage types. Including true damage.

Don't think that's true- 

But here's something anyway to prove you are wrong- 
 



Strange how the same slash proc is 20k less on the corrupted heavy gunner- 

We know that the impact should do 656.4 damage X 5.9 damage before turning it into a slash proc. So you multiply it by .35 to get what the slash proc SHOULD be, and double it cause headshot. 

The impact should do 7k damage, or a 2k slash proc- So the radial attack is what made the slash proc- Once again- Imagine my surprise that everything you say is wrong 🙂

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Bramma's destructive power wasn't really the core issue. It was overly popular because 99% primaries are completely outclassed by abilities and melee, which gets boring quick. Sure it wasn't the most demanding weapon, but at least one had to roughly aim in the general direction of their enemies and even anticipate travel time a bit at longer ranges. Instead of just mindlessly pressing one button while whatching netflix.

It proved that some people might be interested in using guns, or even bows in that case, when they provide an effective and fun alternative to melee and abilities in multiplayer, where a karak, dread or lex for example currently don't offer much opportunities to join the action (such weapons can be fun too, but in solo or premade with like-minded people).

Again, DE chose to treat the symptoms, not the causes.

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8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Ok, then tell me, where does this "level cap" manifest itself?

Strawman- Its extremely easy to run out of Ammo when your maximum ammo is 5.

For proof how easy it is to run out of ammo? Go take your bramma and go fight a lephantis with it.

If you run out of Ammo with the Bramma fighting lephantis? Done. Over. You lose.

Lephantis is regular content. If you can't kill Lephantis with the bramma alone? A regular low level boss? You lose. Good day sir.

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

You see, here's why your claim is completely nonsensical.

Actually- We have quite a few reasonable claims-

See, we like to poke enormous wholes in your arguments. You either completely ignore them, or pretend that situation doesn't exist. Again. You'll probably ignore the criticism, brush over it entirely, or pretend it isn't an issue 🙂

As you even mention the bramma for example doesn't have enough ammo to even break a nullifier's shield now- You will run out of ammo before you pop it- Despite this, you insist that the best thing to do is Compromise your warframe's safety to kill that enemy.

This is neither smart nor optimal, as not all warframe's can ignore the stagger, and it puts you in a dangerous position since nullifier bubbles turn off all your abilities. It's a fantastic way to get yourself killed in hard mod! Go ahead and get yourself killed trying to use the Bramma there. I'm sure a level 130 nullifier with double the health totally won't make you regret that decision. 

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Of course, if you draw comparisons with people who don't even know how to build a crit primary, then well, of course the Bramma is useless. And so is 50% of the arsenal.

Except that as I informed you before- Not everyone likes, uses, or has access to Hunter Munitions-

Hunter Munitions is not required to make something viable- What you really mean to say is "I demand everyone play optimally even though Warframe is a casual game."

Even though a vast amount of Warframe's weapons work just fine playing casually.

Oh- and most MMO's have 50% of their weapons useless- It's what happens when new and better gear comes out-

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

You see, here's why your claim is completely nonsensical. Firstly, I didn't have Primed Sure Footed on. I used kinetic plating on gauss,

Shame Nullifiers bubble deactivate that-

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

You instantly lose credibility when your claim becomes invalid for half the game modes and any build that keeps the gear's weaknesses in mind.


Except that there are times where you literally cannot fix the Bramma's weakness in certain situations-

Spamming down ammo pads for lephantis isn't a good solution. Your logic, and everything you said belongs straight in the garbage. Hey, if you ever fight lephantis with the bramma, tell me how it goes.

I'm sure other fights like Ambulas, Ruk, maybe the eidolon boss fight, Kril, and others just let the bramma really shine.

 

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Pulled every possible trick... This is hilarious. You know how it would have looked like, had I pulled every trick? Firstly, I would have used a 5 forma Bramma with Primed Cryo Rounds and Infected Clip instead of Cryo Rounds and Malignant Force, giving me approximately 75% more raw damage.

Interesting. Just a few posts before you said that replacing a 60/60 mod wouldn't make a difference. How funny that your logic is so blatantly inconsistent.

I'll let you in on a little hint.

If your logic is inconsistent; and you change your argument? It means you were wrong~

 

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

I do not think the Bramma is op right now, I'm merely saying that it isn't useless as you seem to be implying.


So we can confirm that all of your old posts that said ammo didn't matter was 100% wrong now?

We can confirm that where you said only dps matter is wrong now, and that without a shadow of a doubt, The Bramma's damage isn't a problem.

Yes, the Bramma is useless. There are only literally a dozen situations where the Bramma is useless. Steel Path, Eidolons, Nullifier bubbles, Archwing, Lephantis, Wolf of Saturn Six, Tyl Regor, Ropolyst,

 

8 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

I, in fact, like the gun as well; I just thought that before its nerf, it was way too powerful and easy to use.

You were wrong then, and you are wrong now-

Nothing about the gun has changed. It's damage hasn't changed. It has less cluster bombs to apply effects, but against single targets, or against heavily grouped enemies, the clusters don't hit anyways.

Every, last thing you have said has been wrong. Every last thing. I will burrow these words into your head until you understand that.

And steel path will always prove that. Steel path was content made for the endgame weapons of warframe. Yet the bramma is entirely useless in steel path for 3 reasons

#1 INCONSISTENT. Hunter munitions doesn't always proc, slash proc is inconsistent, and for the tougher enemies doesn't always kills.
#2 LOW AMMO. EVERY enemy has 2x the health +100 level.

Some enemies in steel path have 6x the health of normal. A level 140 corrupted heavy gunner has something like 12 million effective health. The Bramma doesn't have the ammo to kill this single enemy.
#3 Insufficient Status Chance.
The Bramma doesn't have the status chance it needs to be able to compete with other weapons. Low armor stripping, low viral procs.

The Bramma is only marginally less powerful from the cluster bomb change. It's main damage is untouched. The RELATIVE dps is still the same. If you think the Bramma is FINE NOW?
It was always fine.

There's nothing wrong with the Bramma being powerful and easy to use.

Let me explain to you just exactly why everything you think, and feel is wrong. Literally everything.

So people like you want EVERY weapon in the game to be viable. #1 this isn't possible in an MMO like game where players get better gear, weapons, and abilities over time.

This is just like Destiny, Borderlands 2, or Diablo where CERTAIN WEAPONS are always left behind. It's just a fact.


So a new weapon comes out, its stronger version of an older outdated weapon. Everyone gets excited, they try it out, it becomes meta because it feels good to use, its powerful, and its one of the new endgame weapons.

Then you nerf it, ruin it, and you make bows not viable, as the STRONGEST two bows have ammo pools of 5 or 6 ammo each.

Somebody made this analogy, and its accurate. You have a city full of buildings. One day, somebody makes the tallest most beautiful building. It's the most functional, and people use it more then other buildings.

So you tear it down because people liked it too much. You keep doing this until every building is ugly, awful, and terrible.

This is the mentality you have. You don't make other buildings better, you just ruin things for being too good.

Sorry, your mentality and everyone who has a mentality like yours is borderline Moronic.

And this most hilarious part? You can't even admit you are wrong, dude.

You look at its reduced ammo count and you probably go "I was right the whole time."

NO, you weren't. You were wrong this entire time, in fact. You never own upto the fact that this weapon is completely ruined for endgame and normal gameplay for it requires you to try to fix how annoying it is to use now.

You have to have no joke, 3 different ways of getting ammo. If your carrier dies, the weapon requires you to manually pick up ammo. No other weapon in the game is this stingy for ammo, and you are too stubborn to admit your opinion is 100% cancer.

And that's the facts. But please- Continue to try to ignore the numerous ways you are wrong. I look forward to seeing your reply, and you gloss over each and every way you were wrong.

Interesting side note. It's always funny to me how all my enemies call me Kardas- Makes it easy to see where people stand.



 
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7 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The impact should do 7k damage, or a 2k slash proc- So the radial attack is what made the slash proc- Once again- Imagine my surprise that everything you say is wrong 🙂

I'll let you in on a little secret, both a heavy gunner and a corrupted heavy gunner have the same damage reduction at level 140 - 96,51%. So, even if armor reduced slash procs, which it doesn't, because slash procs deal true damage and scale off modded damage + critical modifiers, you'd see the same results on both enemies. It's easy to see the reason of the discrepancy: on the heavy gunner, you got an orange crit slash proc with the radial, and a yellow crit slash proc with the direct; on the corrupted heavy gunner, you got an orange crit slash proc with the direct, and a yellow crit slash proc with the radial. Of course, the radial crit brings more damage, so here you have the difference. No armor involved. But no, I'm the one who's always wrong. 

Also, would you look at that. Against the heavy gunner, 2 bomblets hit (34 and 20 dmg), against the Corrupted, all 3 hit (23, 28, and 28 dmg). But our lord and savior UltraKardas says that

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The Bramma is only marginally less powerful from the cluster bomb change.

Yeah, because having 4 less instances of damage, per arrow (so 12 less on a 3 arrow hit) that can Proc viral and slash for upwards of 100% more damage to health isn't a nerf in damage, not at all. 

Quote

The map. No enemies =  red enemy markers on the map vanish. The numbers linger after enemies are dead. 

I've already shown you that it isn't the case because of YouTube's video compression, the red lingers after death because the map is static, YouTube doesn't update the pixels because there is not enough movement. So it is unreliable as there is no clear indicator of death. Yes, damage numbers do linger after death, but they appear in the exact moment damage is delivered. If that damage is lethal, meaning that those numbers are the last damage indicators to appear, and no more appear after that, then the instant in which they become visible on the screen is the instant of death.

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

See, we like to poke enormous wholes in your arguments. You either completely ignore them, or pretend that situation doesn't exist. Again. You'll probably ignore the criticism, brush over it entirely, or pretend it isn't an issue 🙂

Enormous holes? Where? Where is the evidence that defies these two claims?
"Pre-nerf Bramma was the best primary by a margin in most content"

and

"Post-nerf Bramma is a usable weapon in most content"

You just keep rehashing what has already been said, and to which I've already responded in my previous posts. You make wild claims, I counter them, you ignore the counter, and keep making those same wild claims. 

"Bramma isn't effective against bosses" Bosses were out of the discussion a very long time ago, almost from its inception. The only relevant boss in the game currently is Eidolons, and even that is debatable. They comprise a very niche part of content. And their meta is extremely tight because they have immunity to status and radial damage. For anything else, Bramma dominated unchecked. And that "Everything else" is 95% of the game's content.

"Bramma can't do status/crit/heal/x/y/z better than X weapon" That does not matter when enemies are dead. And as all our tests have shown, Bramma is pretty damn good at making enemies dead. The combination of its ease of use, high radial damage, numerous damage instances, spammability, lack of LoS checks made it far outperform any other primary. You still have to produce evidence that a single primary, unassisted, could perform better than pre-nerf Bramma. The nerf removed two components, the spammability, and the damage instances, making attention to ammo economy a requirement for using the bow effectively. 

"If you said ammo didn't matter back then, but you say ammo matters now, you are an hypocrite" Tell me, if today I made the claim "Inaros doesn't care for the damage he takes" and tomorrow DE nerfed his health from 9k to 1k, would that make me an hypocrite because now, suddenly, damage matters for Inaros? This is the exact same situation. The conditions surrounding that statements have completely changed for the Bramma in particular. Back then, when Bramma had 15 reserves and a 10 ammo pick up, plus full benefits from ammo mutations, ammo did not matter. DE nerfed its ammo capacity and pick up rate so severely precisely because ammo is incredibly abundant in the game, and because their aim was to make the ammo economy of the weapon a weakness for an otherwise flawless weapon. Does that weakness make the weapon unusable? No, as my video has shown. With a completely regular build and some care, you can circumvent the limitation, but it still requires the player of some conscious thought.

"Bramma doesn't work in steel path" You seem to be such an expert on steel path, considering that you don't even have access to it. Firstly, steel path is a completely optional game mode that yields no gameplay-affecting rewards that can't be farmed elsewhere, and has a totally different meta than regular play. Secondly, the only evidence supporting that claim is a video of a capture mission played inefficiently and with an ineffective build. 

"Nullifiers are the bane of Bramma's existence, you run out of ammo or have to enter the bubble to kill them" Both those strategies are wrong. If you had read my previous post with a decent amount of attention, and had watched my video, you would have noticed that the best strategy against nullifier isn't shooting at the bubble, nor entering it. Considering that a nullifier bubble takes a minimum of 5 consecutive instances of 400 damage to be destroyed, a single shot of post nerf-bramma, having from 8 to 12 damage instances depending on multishot, aimed at the ground right outside the bubble, can instantly pop it, if the cluster bombs don't land too far away. You need 2 shots maximum to deal with a nullifier, from a safe distance. And, as the video shows, enemies are rigged to stand inside the bubble, so most of the time, you get a pretty big return for the ammo investment.

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Interesting. Just a few posts before you said that replacing a 60/60 mod wouldn't make a difference. How funny that your logic is so blatantly inconsistent.

Once again, taken completely out of context. In the context of the Lenz versus Bramma, I said:

"If both weapons have a 90% and a 60/60, both weapons have a total of +150% elemental damage. If I were to switch the Lenz's 60/60 with another 90%, I would do the same on the Bramma, leading to both weapons having a total of +180%. Which wouldn't change the COMPARATIVE damage between the two. Their difference in DPS would remain the exact same."

The raw of both weapons would certainly increase, but their relative DPS would stay the same. In that context, that of a comparison, what mattered was precisely the relative difference. In this case, showing that the weapon is useful, what matters is the absolute power. Those are completely different situations, but of course you are on a witch hunt to find mistakes because you can't produce anything convincing.

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

So people like you want EVERY weapon in the game to be viable. #1 this isn't possible in an MMO like game where players get better gear, weapons, and abilities over time.

Completely inaccurate, and a misrepresentation of my stance. I've already responded to this criticism. I do not want all weapons to be equal, I don't want the mk1 braton to compete with MR14+ weapons, I want all weapons in the same bracket of mastery to perform in a comparable way. I already explained this in my previous post, but the Kuva Bramma had more damage, more range, more fire rate, more crit, and more damage instances than both the Kuva Tonkor and the Kuva Ogris for no tradeoff whatsoever. The existence of the Bramma itself invalidated two weapons that have the same exact method of acquisition, and the same exact mastery requirement. The Kuva Bramma existing made pursuing those two weapon a completely worthless endeavor, except for mastery. That is what we should avoid for the health of the game.

1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

So a new weapon comes out, its stronger version of an older outdated weapon. Everyone gets excited, they try it out, it becomes meta because it feels good to use, its powerful, and its one of the new endgame weapons.

"Outdated" by what standards? If the current weapons become outdated, that is because there are new challenging enemies that are too strong for our gear, so a new set of powerful weapons is released to deal with those enemies. In warframe this never happens. New, stronger weapons are released, but the enemies in all relevant content stay the same. This is simply called power creep, and it is way more dangerous of a mentality than balancing the outliers. Pursuing power creep means invalidating all existing content, making combat shallow and uninteresting because everything dies in a breeze, which in turn entails massive balance changes to enemies and weapons when the situation becomes unbearable, only for all of this to repeat itself in a perpetual cycle of releasing "better options" just for the sake of having "better options", and then having to buff all of the other weapons when they become useless for new players, and then buffing the enemies so they don't die in one shot, inevitably reaching the same status as if those "better options" were never released to begin with, or were nerfed comparatively to other guns. It is inefficient, and it leads to burnout for players and developers. Instead of doing that, the devs should focus on releasing enemies and content that favors specialization and requires multiple specializations to work together, so that we can have horizontal progression in various, useful niches, instead of an endless and unhealthy vertical progression that invalidates previous content.

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12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Ok, then tell me, where does this "level cap" manifest itself?

I already told you, how about you stop ignoring my entire previous post and read it.

here, I guess I'll have to copy paste it again, so you can ignore it again, though I suggest you actually read it before saying more stupid stuff like "where does it manifest itself", how about you stay longer in the mission or take off Primed Sure Footed (since most players dont even have this) or take any mission that does not spawn hordes of enemies in small hallways, how about that Mr Einstein, and then do your mission again and come back:

20 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

Heres an idea, take off Primed Sure Footed, go play in a mission with open areas, then come back with some more "proof".

The way you always present things is cherry picking to the extreme, you ignore general gameplay and tons of evidence all around you, what most players actually are capable of, you search for that one perfect moment, one perfect example, and then you mindlessly base everything else on that.

 

-If you play like you just did with groups of enemies in small hallways, yes the cap will be a higher, OF COURSE, because the bramma is AOE weapon and if you can hit multiple enemies all the time you will OF COURSE get more ammo back which makes the cap go higher, but instead of you recognizing that, you didnt even bother to stay in this mission to go higher level to reach the cap, you stayed just below it because that suits your "bramma OP" narrative. But this you seem to have avoided on purpose.

-If you had done this exact same thing where enemies didnt spawn so numerous all the time, or of the map was more open area and not small hallways, you would have indeed already reached the cap which is around level 120, but again, you didnt try this, you specifically took a mission that spawns hordes of enemies.

-If you had unequipped this Primed Sure Footed mod, which most players have no access to, then you would need to shoot your arrows from further away, which would make hitting enemies directly harder and you would miss more shots and certain enemies that have protective bubbles around them will need more ammo to be killed as well since you cant just walk inside their bubble to shoot an arrow in their face anymore, again you didnt try this.

-And lastly, if you had done this against corpus faction, many of the enemies would be running around with protective bubbles around everything, literally bouncing off any arrow you shoot at them, at this level using bramma against corpus would do nothing, you would have already been way over the cap then, but again you didnt try this.

 

All in all, you fail to recognize and ignore these conditions I just mentioned, you took one cherry picked example and then you base everything on that without even trying other conditions, your proof is as false as it gets because it simply does not represent the whole picture.

Bramma does have a level cap due to ammo restriction, which is around level 120 and after that the weapon becomes useless, just because you went above that with equipment and mods perfect for it in a mission that spawned hordes of enemies where an AOE weapon shines best and gives you more ammo back, does not mean there is no level cap, it only means you pulled out every possible trick to go above it, nothing more, nothing less, but if you had continued you would have undoubtedly reached your cap for this specific mission as well, might have been 140, 150, we will never know because you stopped at 130.

I might as well take my bramma with rhino and bump its damage with my Roar ability to go even further above the cap, does that mean the cap isnt there? no, its just one specific condition, but I dont base everything on that, unlike you...

 

12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Because you said that the cap was at 120. I knew that claim was absolutely ludicrous

It isnt, you just fail to recognize not each mission is the same, nor does every player use your build, especially primed sure footed, care to talk some more nonsense or you actually going to test it out without using mods that most players dont have, or you know, you can finally stop this autistic behavior of yours where you focus so badly on this number 120 with your extreme nitpicking instead of even trying all the other conditions I mentioned, what is even wrong with you, you ignore 90% of what I say and then you nitpick over the other 10% and then you pretend everything about bramma is like that because you base everything on one perfect condition and call bramma OP and proclaim it simply has no ammo cap.

I say around level 120 because it all depends on the conditions and equipment/mods, its a general statement saying there is an ammo cap, this cap will be different for each player and will be different depending on the mission. But generally speaking in my experience 120 seems to be in the middle, so I say 120.

You on the other hand do nothing but nitpick about this number 120, you ignore any other conditions.

12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Hm, what? The video was from level 116 to 135. That's not "Just below", that's on and above.

Yes, because you took a mission with tons of enemies in tight spots and you use primed sure footed which most players dont have, I already said that a thousand times this will increase your cap because of obvious reasons, but you have issues reading apparently, though ignoring and going in endless circles seems to be your forte.

12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Your claim was that the level cap was 120, and I showed you that the gun doesn't even struggle at 120

Except you were beginning to struggle since u ran out of ammo a few times already, especially that one moment where you were looking for ammo in other hallways for 15 seconds was very nice, if you don't call that struggling then okay buddy, you could have continued and told us where you reached your cap instead, but you refuse to do this because you want to keep lying through your teeth by saying "bramma has no ammo cap" instead.

12 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

if people play sub-optimally, should I conform and waste the potential of a piece of gear?

Dude most people dont own Primed Sure Footed, get off your high horse and stop blaming people who didnt log in for 400 days strait to prove your somehow better than them, you walk up to many enemies to shoot them right in the face with bramma, people who dont have this mod cannot do this and will reach their ammo cap much sooner since they need to shoot from further way to not get knocked on their ass every single time by the bramma explosion, like seriously, are you incapable of understanding this?

3 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

NO, you weren't. You were wrong this entire time, in fact. You never own upto the fact that this weapon is completely ruined for endgame and normal gameplay for it requires you to try to fix how annoying it is to use now.

I feel you, I keep trying to talk with this Frost dude but all he does is keep saying "there is no ammo cap, period" when in fact he didnt even try to reach hes own cap, I tell him that if you use mods like primed sure footed and take a mission that spawns hordes of enemies your cap will be higher, but then he refuses to actually reach hes cap there, even though he was already struggling with hes ammo so he was getting close to hes cap in this specific mission, but then he ends the mission and uploads the video as "proof" that there is no cap at all.

At this point talking to a wall would be more effective, because this Frost dude just ignores everything and focuses only on whatever little thing he wants, he even ignored my entire previous posts and then asks questions which I already answered, I basically had to copy paste the entire thing again, like honestly, this really begins to feel like autistic behavior, those people also cant see the bigger picture and instead focus on one little detail and get obsessed by it as well.

 

Hey Mr. Frost, are you going to take off your primed sure footed mod so you can finally know how bramma feels to most people where they indeed reach the ammo cap really fast, or are you going to ignore everything I said once again.

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Wow, such a fat thread about this bow. I dunno, after nerf it feels meh. Much less dmg/aoe, very clunky ammo problems (cant shoots from one spot, you need always run to grab ammo)...why even use this then?=(  

Sadface. I would prefer my secura penta if i want aoe dmg =/ 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

I don't get why he is even here, when he clearly wants weapons to be all so terrible

I'm starting to think hes either a troll, or just wants attention.

I also had conversations like this with the OP "SpringRocker" who also ignored almost everything and always had answers that made no sense, only to find out later than in all these 4+ months this post has been up he literally only had 450 kills on hes bramma, its all just a joke to these kinds of people.

Sadly they have the biggest mouth here on the forum, DE take notice, and proceeds to listen to these flakes.

14 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Ok, then tell me, where does this "level cap" manifest itself?

Alright Frostie, since you are incapable of understanding when I say that the ammo cap on bramma depends on many conditions, including which mods you use (especially primed sure footed) and what mission type, I will show you one of the other conditions that you are so eager to ignore.

Instead of taking a mission like survival that spawned hordes of enemies in tight spots where bramma will get way more ammo back than it shoots out, since u will always hit multiple enemies, let me push your face right into it with a mission like spy on high level where enemies do not clump together in tight spots.

And I will also remove my Primed Sure Footed mod to show you just how lame Bramma is for most of the player-base, again something that you cant understand apparently.

I hope you enjoy the true experience of what it means to get "ammo capped" and knocked on your ass constantly, which is exactly how bramma will be experienced by most players who attempt to use this on high level.

Also take note, when I use my nukor or just melee, I am way faster in killing the enemies, so at this point I'm just using bramma to show you how wrong you are, if I would play normally on this level I wouldn't even consider using it.

When I use bramma, I wait for the slash ticks, hope to not miss any shots, get knocked on my ass all the time, in a general sense I am handicapping myself so badly and clearly I'm already at the level cap where ammo makes bramma useless to be used.

Playing in this manner is simply inefficient, bramma is not useful on high level, and if I go even a big higher level it becomes utterly useless.

But I'm sure you will continue to lie and pretend it does not have an ammo cap at all and you can keep shooting it forever since you magically can make ammo appear out of thin air, or you'll come up with more ideas as to why I'm giving myself this ammo cap, instead of just being honest and admitting bramma has serious issues on high level, which at this point I know you will never do.

Can't wait for you to start nitpicking over some small details once more while you ignore the bigger picture so we can keep going in circles all over again.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

I'm more stubborn then he is. I will continually tell him he's wrong

Yes but Ive been thinking that it might just be better to not respond to him at all anymore, I mean it when I said talking to a wall would be more efficient, because you can keep arguing with Frost forever and this only accomplishes 2 thing:

1. You waste your own time, and you feed the troll, who knows maybe all he wants is attention and were giving him exactly that.

2. We keep this post alive by constantly responding to him, and in essence, this is a "nerf bramma" post and even the moderators keep pushing all current bramma topics into it, even though current bramma topics are about post-patch bramma and have nothing to do with this pre-patch topic at all anymore, moderators still keep doing it and I bet most people read the OP first and foremost. So perhaps it would be better to just let this topic die out so that hopefully an honest topic about post-patch bramma can take its place without getting merged into this one.

 

I honestly wish the other bramma posts didnt get merged into this one, especially not since the title of this topic "Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion" is a lie as well since the OP wasnt after any feedback or discussions, he started right from the bat by saying bramma is OP and needs to be nerfed, its likely because of this title that the moderators kept pushing everything else into it without even looking at the actual content behind it.

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3 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

Yes but Ive been thinking that it might just be better to not respond to him at all anymore,

Perhaps. But I'm the most stubborn person on the planet alive. At this point, he's wasting his own time more then anything else.

Everyone is telling him he's wrong- It's a blatant obvious fact at this this point.

No other weapon in warframe fires 20% of your ammo a shot, without something to help get your ammo back. The Lenz has built in ammo conversion, while the Bramma straight up has ammo reduction.

Lotus help the man who has his sentinel destroyed and has to constantly look for ammo pick ups. I think that anyone who thinks the Bramma is fine now, should be forced to use it, with no carrier, no pets, or anything and manually pick up ammo till they change their mind, or DE unnerfs the Bramma.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

I think that anyone who thinks the Bramma is fine now, should be forced to use it, with no carrier, no pets, or anything and manually pick up ammo

Can't agree more, also they can't use Primed Sure Footed so they get knocked down constantly, maybe that will shake them to reality a bit faster.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except you are wrong.

Except I'm not. I'm really tired of my words getting twisted, of context being ignored, of quotes being extrapolated just to fit one's narrative, and especially, I'm extremely tired of being talked down and outright insulted by idiots who don't even understand the game mechanics they are talking about.

Kardas. The difference in slash procs you experience has this explanation, as I've already stated:

This is how you calculated damage multipliers when dealing with Critical Tiers and headshot multipliers, as headshots, other than multiplying the base damage, also multiply the multiplier, if that makes sense. Straight from the wiki: 
Damage multiplier = Headshot Multi×(1+Crit Tier×(2×Modded Crit Multi−1))

For a yellow crit, this is equal to 2x(1+1x(2x5.9-1)= 21.6x

For an orange crit it is equal to 2x(1+2(2x5.9-1)=41.2x

Against the Heavy Gunner, you get a tier 2 crit (orange) with the radial portion of the attack (2944,9dmg) and a tier 1 crit (yellow) with the direct portion of the damage (656,4dmg)

Applying the multipliers, and the slash tic multiplier, you get (2944,9x41,2+656,4x21,6)x0,35=47424,458

For the Corrupted heavy gunner, you hit with a tier 2 crit with the direct, a tier 1 with the radial

So, the slash proc should deal, per tic, (656,4x41,2+2944,9x21,6)x0,35=31728,732

As you might see, the numbers seem off, but they are off by around the same percentage:

(51529-47424)/51529=0,079

(34837-31728)/34837=0,089

Which makes me believe there's some buffing effect at play.

Also.

12 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Don't think that's true- 

Straight from the wiki, on true damage:

  • While not specifically stated anywhere in the game, most Eximus enemies will resist this damage type, causing it to do less damage compared to most enemies. This in turn makes reliance on slash procs to deal heavy damage less reliable.

 

I'm done. There's no point in discussing semantics with you, you'll se just what you want to see.

 

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Thumbs up for your patience.

Yes indeed, I also give Frost a massive thumbs up for ignoring almost everything I said, to this day he still proclaims Bramma has no ammo cap, nobody experiences any ammo issues and if they do its all the players own fault, these are the wise words he left behind for us.

Yet I gave him plenty of conditions to try out so he could see for himself, I even showed him myself, but instead he only tried out one where there were tons of enemies which is where bramma goes at peak efficiency, and the moment he began to experience the ammo issue himself he bailed out of the mission, lol.

 

Though he was right about hunter munitions working way better on bramma, I did learn that from him and I thank him for that, but for all the rest, that was just over the top cherry-picking of him and he blatantly refuses to see the bigger picture.

Bramma has upsides, and downsides, blatantly ignoring all the downsides and then calling the weapon overpowered in everything is as wrong as it gets.

Edited by IIAc3sII
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)UltraKardas:

Except for the fact he was blatantly lying on several points, and flipped his entire argument.

Maybe, but his arguments holds more truth than yours in my opinion

vor 5 Minuten schrieb (PS4)UltraKardas:

But I'll always dislike people like you who ruined it this bad.

I have played that weapon in an 2h arbitration run against grineer & had no problems with it.

But bad players always complain about equipment if they fail.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

I have played that weapon in an 2h arbitration run against grineer & had no problems with it.

Enemies would have been like level 300 then?

Let me guess, you had other players either buffing your damage, or lowering the enemy's resistances.

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb IIAc3sII:

Yes indeed, I also give Frost a massive thumbs up for ignoring almost everything I said, to this day he still proclaims Bramma has no ammo cap, nobody experiences any ammo issues and if they do its all the players own fault, these are the wise words he left behind for us.

Yet I gave him plenty of conditions to try out so he could see for himself, I even showed him myself, but instead he only tried out one where there were tons of enemies which is where bramma goes at peak efficiency, and the moment he began to experience the ammo issue himself he bailed out of the mission, lol.

 

Though he was right about hunter munitions working way better on bramma, I did learn that from him and I thank him for that, but for all the rest, that was just over the top cherry-picking of him and he blatantly refuses to see the bigger picture.

Bramma has upsides, and downsides, blatantly ignoring all the downsides and then calling the weapon overpowered in everything is as wrong as it gets.

Guys who don't own Hunter Munition don't need a kuva bramma and should stay as far away as possible from high lv missions.

 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Guys who don't own Hunter Munition don't need a kuva bramma

and you'd say the same about people who didnt play for 400 days and don't have Primed Sure Footed right?

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Gerade eben schrieb IIAc3sII:

Enemies would have been like level 300 then?

Let me guess, you had other players either buffing your damage, or lowering the enemy's resistances.

Nope I have only used it to kill the drones

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vor 1 Minute schrieb IIAc3sII:

and you'd say the same about people who didnt play for 400 days and don't have Primed Sure Footed right?

God damm no. In that case I am not allowed to play high lv missions

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Nope I have only used it to kill the drones

You used bramma only to kill the drones... 😰

Are you serious right now?

You just said you had no issues using bramma in a 2h arbitration, which would give enemies at very high level (300?), but then you say you only used the bramma to shoot the drones, ugh.

I just can't anymore, its too silly, sry.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb IIAc3sII:

You used bramma only to kill the drones... 😰

Are you serious right now?

You just said you had no issues using bramma in a 2h arbitration, but then you say you only used the bramma to shoot the drones, ugh.

Like I said bad players like you always complain about their equipment if they fail. 

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9 minutes ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Like I said bad players like you always complain about their equipment if they fail. 

Thanks, dont worry about it, just keep shooting drones only with it.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Maybe, but his arguments holds more truth than yours in my opinion

And you'd actually be wrong, but you are entitled to your own opinion. 

There's a reason he gave up when I asked him certain questions, its cause the answer was the opposite of what you and him want to believe. 

He said that ammo didn't matter, and the bramma's damage was overpowered when the bramma first came out. Now that the ammo is so scarce he realized he was wrong. He couldn't admit that the damage is fine, and has always been fine. 

9 hours ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Like I said bad players like you always complain about their equipment if they fail. 

Except nobody here has failed. The bramma is just a terrible weapon now. 

I've literally killed level 9,999 enemies, and solo survival for hours. And the bramma is just an awful weapon to use- 

Shame your opinion is terrible. Have a good one dude. 

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb (PS4)UltraKardas:

 

Except nobody here has failed. The bramma is just a terrible weapon now. 

I've literally killed level 9,999 enemies, and solo survival for hours. And the bramma is just an awful weapon to use- 

Shame your opinion is terrible. Have a good one dude. 

How about using the kuva ogris, kuva kohm or your favorite lenz in your future survival runs.

If you can show me a 2h arbitration survival run with only that weapons, I will admit that I am wrong.

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