rockscl Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Um, did you just say you don't have control over the parkour in Overgrowth? -_- Im saying that ow hasnt dealt with the problems that make warframe`s parkour clunky people keep saying thats a better parkour, when thats a better character animation but its parkour system hasnt even tried to deal with blablabla Edited February 5, 2015 by rockscl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirion_Bk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Sure some of you don't like copter (this one was specially dedicated to you guys btw) but what you fail to realise is that you don't have to use it, sometimes I use plain wall running to traverse the same tile its not copter or nothing, its a combination of everything. And I will have to disagree on this looking ridiculous I myself think it looks pretty Ninja which this game is all about. I only counted coptering and directional melee in that video. I know I missed some, but you reached 91 sliding attacks and aerial attacks used not for their intended purpose to kill enemies, but to travel at ludicrous speeds while looking ridiculous. 91. Without counting wall attacks and slash dashes. Yup. And are you honestly saying that this does not look ridiculous? Does it not bother you that everytime you copter, your character starts running in the frikkin air. A good example is at around 18 seconds in your video. And does the fact that a Galatine user can reach greater heights with a aerial melee alone than a Super Jump not sound wrong? If you are saying that that looks.... Ninja.... Then I honestly do not know what to say to you. Also, as I said before in this thread, players who choose to unequip their melee weapon and go guns only should NEVER be more restricted in parkour than those who do. Your video perfectly shows how that is not possible as long as everything stays the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I only counted coptering and directional melee in that video. I know I missed some, but you reached 91 sliding attacks and aerial attacks used not for their intended purpose to kill enemies, but to travel at ludicrous speeds while looking ridiculous. 91. Without counting wall attacks and slash dashes. Yup. And are you honestly saying that this does not look ridiculous? Does it not bother you that everytime you copter, your character starts running in the frikkin air. A good example is at around 18 seconds in your video. And does the fact that a Galatine user can reach greater heights with a aerial melee alone than a Super Jump not sound wrong? If you are saying that that looks.... Ninja.... Then I honestly do not know what to say to you. Also, as I said before in this thread, players who choose to unequip their melee weapon and go guns only should NEVER be more restricted in parkour than those who do. Your video perfectly shows how that is not possible as long as everything stays the same. So you are saying fix the dangling feet and everyone would be happy ? Its just feet wobbling a little, does not bother one bit, I guess they could fix that so they don't move in the air, thats pretty simple... This movie was a special copter/air melee montage so its normal I use it a lot, but some sections I only use wallruns/walllaunch (walllaunch is my fav of them all btw, best thing in the game imo) like some of my other videos linking wallruns without copteris easily doable, the combinations you can do to move around in this game are crazy !! One point I can agree on is that every melee should have the same (or almost) amount of momentum while using copter or air melee, but that is asking for more copter not less, I can get behind that. As for super jump, well that is one thing DE did wrong and should change so you can use it in air maybe, double or triple super jump, I agree its less useful now but hey you turn invisible... HAHA I do believe this looks Ninja and its even more fun flying around everywhere than watching a video of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirion_Bk Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So you are saying fix the dangling feet and everyone would be happy ? Its just feet wobbling a little, does not bother one bit, I guess they could fix that so they don't move in the air, thats pretty simple... This movie was a special copter/air melee montage so its normal I use it a lot, but some sections I only use wallruns/walllaunch (walllaunch is my fav of them all btw, best thing in the game imo) like some of my other videos linking wallruns without copteris easily doable, the combinations you can do to move around in this game are crazy !! One point I can agree on is that every melee should have the same (or almost) amount of momentum while using copter or air melee, but that is asking for more copter not less, I can get behind that. As for super jump, well that is one thing DE did wrong and should change so you can use it in air maybe, double or triple super jump, I agree its less useful now but hey you turn invisible... HAHA I do believe this looks Ninja and its even more fun flying around everywhere than watching a video of it. No, that is not what I am saying. The system is still very clunky however, with not much you can do about where you wanna end up if you do not have a melee weapon equipped. Wanna jump straight off the wall? Nope. Wanna gently run downwards and make contact with ground, fluidly transitioning to ground movement? Run out of stamina first. Wanna jump upwards from a horisontal wallrun? Nope. Wanna wallrun horisontally after wallrunning vertically without a wall behind you? Nope. I'd be content if every weapon got similar slide attakcs as the Kronen. Quick initial burst of speed that is then lowered quite fast. It would be much easier to hit enemies and it would be more controllable as you would not launch yourself into a wall by accident. Aerial Slide Attacks are meant to kill enemies, not travel at the speed of sound. That's not the main point. Why use Zephyr for her mobility when you can achieve the same and more for less with the Tipedo? Why use Super Jump when Galatine covers a larger distance? Why use Bounce? Why use Rhino Charge? The answer is not in buffing the abilities to make them useful as they are already useful. The answer lies in not making melee weapons completely eclipse them by being better and cheaper. It does not look or feel ninja when you can grab a staff, do a barrel roll and suddenly have crossed an entire room. I have used coptering and aerial melee a lot to get around, but I have stopped using melee weapons and their physics hiccup to fill the roles of mobility frames and actual parkour. It is harder to get around, that's for sure. But that was still one of the best decisions I have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 No, that is not what I am saying. The system is still very clunky however, with not much you can do about where you wanna end up if you do not have a melee weapon equipped. Wanna jump straight off the wall? Nope. Wanna gently run downwards and make contact with ground, fluidly transitioning to ground movement? Run out of stamina first. Wanna jump upwards from a horisontal wallrun? Nope. Wanna wallrun horisontally after wallrunning vertically without a wall behind you? Nope. I'd be content if every weapon got similar slide attakcs as the Kronen. Quick initial burst of speed that is then lowered quite fast. It would be much easier to hit enemies and it would be more controllable as you would not launch yourself into a wall by accident. Aerial Slide Attacks are meant to kill enemies, not travel at the speed of sound. That's not the main point. Why use Zephyr for her mobility when you can achieve the same and more for less with the Tipedo? Why use Super Jump when Galatine covers a larger distance? Why use Bounce? Why use Rhino Charge? The answer is not in buffing the abilities to make them useful as they are already useful. The answer lies in not making melee weapons completely eclipse them by being better and cheaper. It does not look or feel ninja when you can grab a staff, do a barrel roll and suddenly have crossed an entire room. I have used coptering and aerial melee a lot to get around, but I have stopped using melee weapons and their physics hiccup to fill the roles of mobility frames and actual parkour. It is harder to get around, that's for sure. But that was still one of the best decisions I have made. I get your point, I have a feeling DE does not know where to go with this air melee, when it was introduced they used it to move around but they call it an ''attack'' and copter also became a way to move around an it is now deeply engrained in how people play the game, removing it would be suicide imo. For me tho this is what I enjoy doing most in the game and I'm sure I'm not the only one, I have never had this much mobility in a game ever, its the best thing a game as ever offered me it is absolutely amazing imo but I know it feels all of this happened by accident... I'm scared what they might do to parkour because the game won't be the same for me if they change anything. I agree also on why would anyone use Zephyr if you can do the same with tipedo and even better but thats all on DE, sometimes they fail to play their own game it seems. All in all I think they can find a middle ground but they should not remove any of the existing movement possibilites because lots of players are used to them by now and would abandon ship including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspari Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Wall-running isn't even a big part of real parkour. Sprinting, vaulting, banking, and sliding play far bigger roles than wall-running does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) what you see in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is 'hardcoded'. it's built into each piece of debris. that's why it looks 'perfect'. because it's tailor made for the one or two possible situations that it needs to expect from the player. and there are no different speed Characters, the Melee Weapon(s) you have aren't included, Et Cetera. it's a very sterile environment, an environment Warframe doesn't have. Im saying that ow hasnt dealt with the problems that make warframe`s parkour clunkybut it has!the only thing Overgrowth doesn't have that Warframe does, is Melee Weapons propelling you at Mach1 across the map. other than that, Overgrowth has every situation we currently have in Warframe handled, and handled much more intuitively and smoothly. while stifling the Player's movement less. i guess you'd be correct if you were talking about falling half a dozen stories to the ground, since in Overgrowth you would just die. Edited February 5, 2015 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 These naive comparisons need to stop like forever, in that video, there is ZERO parkour, that just vaulting over obstacles, warframe development challenge is far deeper than vaulting over a box, even if vaulting is still an issue in warframe, almost the same with overgrowth, people keep saying thats a better parkour, when thats clearly a better character animation but its parkour system hasnt even tried to deal with wall inconsistences, redirection from wall run, shooting from wall runs while controlling the direction of the run, and such things that are the most notable problems in warframe`s movement, in ow the best parkouring examples are done in maps that are purely designed to run, any car seems perfect in a good street, take it into weird terrain and see how it behaves Doesn't matter what you call it, this is better then what you see in warframe and shall get you places much faster than usual and you'll feel like an actual Ninja and not a spartan glued to the ground. This should cover the basics of vaulting and whatnot, but does not cover everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hey why does Raiden look like the cyborg ninja? :o Anyway : year of quality guys. Let's hope! Stealth is coming, no way they'd skip Parkour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockscl Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Doesn't matter what you call it, this is better then what you see in warframe and shall get you places much faster than usual and you'll feel like an actual Ninja and not a spartan glued to the ground. This should cover the basics of vaulting and whatnot, but does not cover everything. yes, its better than what we see in warframe, but most of the places you need to reach in warframe are inaccessible with OG mechanics, however, yes, procedural animation results a(very) more fluid character animation and movement system, still, they havent even tried putting one gun in it, dealing will all the events that brings, like being able to shoot from walls for like 1 second, finding a bump in the wall and losing all the momentum because the feet arent touching it, you see, these things arent an issue in og because all you see are plain walls look there, a diagonal wall makes the rabbit fall, theres logics that we need in warframe, and are still not adressed as a parkour system in og, thats why i insist about it being an outstanding animation system: also this, here you have a design issue thats out of the animation system, but in the decisions of what you want to give the players in very specific situations: Edited February 5, 2015 by rockscl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)theelix Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hey why does Raiden look like the cyborg ninja? :o Anyway : year of quality guys. Let's hope! Stealth is coming, no way they'd skip Parkour... Because Raiden has always been a cyborg ninja...? http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Raiden If it was a joke, I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 -snip-i hope you realize that that person is using some number of Mods for the game.which clouds what is base game and what is not and if those Mods might be affecting the base systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IggySnow Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 im all for better parkour and all, but a lot of this just seems a little too complicated. I want a simple and smooth parkour experience. with animations and physics that flow together really well, not a super advanced and complicated one. also a lot of these things just don't work in warframe. Your basically suggesting a mirrors edge parkour experience (from what iv read) and that kind of system just doesn't work very well unless every single tile is specifically made to be able to include all of these animations. and then there are all the different warframes all with different speeds. Just seems like a nightmare for DE. This is just my opinion of course and I could be completely wrong. c: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aure7 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 im all for better parkour and all, but a lot of this just seems a little too complicated. I want a simple and smooth parkour experience. with animations and physics that flow together really well, not a super advanced and complicated one. also a lot of these things just don't work in warframe. Your basically suggesting a mirrors edge parkour experience (from what iv read) and that kind of system just doesn't work very well unless every single tile is specifically made to be able to include all of these animations. and then there are all the different warframes all with different speeds. Just seems like a nightmare for DE. This is just my opinion of course and I could be completely wrong. c: Then read the tl;dr again. It matches your ideas. The rest of the post is simply going in depth on possibilities of smooth parkour system. It can be simple, but more intuitive possibilities are always good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Because Raiden has always been a cyborg ninja...? http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Raiden If it was a joke, I don't get it. It wasn't a joke, I just played MGS 1 10 years ago man...(only remember the ninja cyborg fight.) Mr Geoff talked about new moves for Parkour 2.0 in devstream 46! I wonder what it could be...(I hope for ledge mechanics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aure7 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 It wasn't a joke, I just played MGS 1 10 years ago man...(only remember the ninja cyborg fight.) Mr Geoff talked about new moves for Parkour 2.0 in devstream 46! I wonder what it could be...(I hope for ledge mechanics) the way they all were cheering for all those copters and aerial melee in pvp makes me fear for the future of parkour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 the way they all were cheering for all those copters and aerial melee in pvp makes me fear for the future of parkour. Copter is the name of the game, you can't deny it now HAHA :D !! That part made ME so happy. Copter 4 life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 the way they all were cheering for all those copters and aerial melee in pvp makes me fear for the future of parkour. Coptering is a valid and an easily counteracted tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspari Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 the way they all were cheering for all those copters and aerial melee in pvp makes me fear for the future of parkour. And before long this game will suffer from K-Style syndrome. If that happens I'll probably quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire-Extinguisher Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I would love to see this happen. I think it would be a nightmare for DE to make happen, but I'd love to see it nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aure7 Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Wow some of you are the worst at getting my message right. I am all for exciting and quick maneuvers, jumps, leaps in PVP. I want all of that just as much as every one of you and yes I know it only provides fun and it can be countered. It simply has to FINALLY take form of actual parkour acrobatics instead of melee attacks. Simple as that. And one particular of you can't seem to read the very top of my OP: Edited February 7, 2015 by Aure7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) the way they all were cheering for all those copters and aerial melee in pvp makes me fear for the future of parkour. As if aerial melee shall ever replace parkour and not be an extension of it. Lack of imagination prevents those that dislike it from seeing how it works with it and are blind to actually seeing it happen as they watch. Also fail to see how levels can be designed with aerial melee in mind. Seems you people focus too much on getting rid of things rather than adapting to new things and adding new things. Simply don't see the big picture picture and how it adds a new dimension to things. You guys are always whining about what the point of this or that rather than simply finding new ways to parkour. You guys rather $#*(@ and moan than to make use of cool new things like aerial melee. Must be if y'all genes. Gotta make parkour easy to make aerial melee less relevant. The only reason it's abused because parkour is garbage. You can't expect people to start using parkour should copter and aerial melee be removed. You've lost yo minds if so. They'll just run n butt slide all day, then you guys would whine about that. Should they remove it, they'll just run n jump slide then you'll whine about that. After they remove that, they'll simply run and then you all would whine that no one ever parkours which brings y'all back to this thread. Ya'll would have nothing left to whine about except parkour itself. There should be a Guiness Book World Record for whining... Edited February 8, 2015 by Jinryusai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Wow some of you are the worst at getting my message right. I am all for exciting and quick maneuvers, jumps, leaps in PVP. I want all of that just as much as every one of you and yes I know it only provides fun and it can be countered. It simply has to FINALLY take form of actual parkour acrobatics instead of melee attacks. Simple as that. And one particular of you can't seem to read the very top of my OP: Especially to people whining about aerial melee with a non existent threat level to parkour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)theelix Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 As if aerial melee shall ever replace parkour and not be an extension of it. Lack of imagination prevents those that dislike it from seeing how it works with it and are blind to actually seeing it happen as they watch. Also fail to see how levels can be designed with aerial melee in mind. Seems you people focus too much on getting rid of things rather than adapting to new things and adding new things. Simply don't see the big picture picture and how it adds a new dimension to things. You guys are always whining about what the point of this or that rather than simply finding new ways to parkour. You guys rather $#*(@ and moan than to make use of cool new things like aerial melee. Must be if y'all genes. Gotta make parkour easy to make aerial melee less relevant. The only reason it's abused because parkour is garbage. You can't expect people to start using parkour should copter and aerial melee be removed. You've lost yo minds if so. They'll just run n butt slide all day, then you guys would whine about that. Should they remove it, they'll just run n jump slide then you'll whine about that. After they remove that, they'll simply run and then you all would whine that no one ever parkours which brings y'all back to this thread. Ya'll would have nothing left to whine about except parkour itself. There should be a Guiness Book World Record for whining... Especially to people whining about aerial melee with a non existent threat level to parkour. You realize that this thread is about improving this fact: Gotta make parkour easy to make aerial melee less relevant. The only reason it's abused because parkour is garbage. This whole damn thread is about adding things to parkour and making it better. Wrote an entire meta complaint on us wanting to get rid of coptering and directional melee when That's not what we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) You realize that this thread is about improving this fact: - Yet, they same people in this thread keep whining about it and want them removed... This whole damn thread is about adding things to parkour and making it better. Wrote an entire meta complaint on us wanting to get rid of coptering and directional melee when That's not what we're talking about. - Don't think I referenced you or anyone else that is pro copter/d. melee. The beauty of quoting others... Tells the person you are replying that you are talking to him and only him and shows everyone else that this is a A to B conversation and that they should C their way out of it unless they have something to add to it(You added nothing really). in other words, not talking to you or about you or anyone else pro copter/d. melee... Edited February 8, 2015 by Jinryusai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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