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[PC] No planned deployments until Deadlock Protocol!

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On 2020-06-01 at 2:45 AM, Pinegulf said:

Patience. Better to dev for a while than release bug-ridden mess. 

I mean, we all know that it is not like this updade isn't going to come out bug-ridden either way...

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52 minutes ago, p_silveira said:

I mean, we all know that it is not like this updade isn't going to come out bug-ridden either way...

Are you saying they should just release it bug-ridden now since it is impossible to release something without a possible bug?

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DE’s silence slightly irritates me. Hopefully they will drop the verdict of “will it come this week or the next” tomorrow.

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Le 01/06/2020 à 01:45, Pinegulf a dit :

Patience. Better to dev for a while than release bug-ridden mess. 

Soy latino, asi que agradeceria que tradujeras esto.

___En fin a lo que vamos, no entiendo porque hay gente que todavia defiende a DE, que si se retrasan por el tiempo lo defienden, que si scarlett spear salio roto lo defienden, que si los liches salieron extremadamente roto lo defiende, que si en el 2019 practicamente no tuvimos actualizaciones de calidad lo defienden, que si las ultimas actualizaciones de warframe (sin contar railjack revisited, glassmaker y mainline que estuvieron bastante buenas para lo que son actualizaciones pequeñas) que salieron rotas lo defienden solo porque son fan de Digital extremes y de warframe, eso no esta bien porque hay que criticar al juego para que mejore no conformarnos con lo que traer roto, y no me vengas a decir que no tenian tiempo para pulir deadlock protocol porque si que tuvieron tiempo, que no basto el año 2019 de actualizaciones practicamente mediocres para pulir las actualizaciones del 2020?, y no me vengas con que Tio es que el covid-19 arruino todo, porque sabes y saben que no es asi, DE no se esta sabiendo administrar como compañia triple AAA que son, y ojo acepto que me traigan deadloock protocol esta o maximo la otra semana, porque quiero que salga bien y pulida porque la espero mucho ya que no hemos tenido actualizaciones grandes de gran calidad y ojala que esa mala racha se rompa con deadloock protocol, pero lo que si no acepto es que se tarden como 4 semanas sin traer el proximo capitulo de glassmaker, porque ya estoy viendo venir que intentaran alargar lo mas que puedan glasskamer y eso arruinara la historia, eso arruinara el interes de nosotros y la consistencia de la misma.

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Posted (edited)
Hace 52 minutos, DrivaMain dijo:

El silencio de DE me irrita un poco. Con suerte, dejarán caer el veredicto de "vendrá esta semana o la próxima" mañana.

Exacto, siempre buscan cualquier excusa para alargar las cosas, que si el covid-19 que si las protestas de estados unidos, que si no pueden acceder a los estudios de grabación ( que ojo el no poder acceder al estudio de grabación es entendible) pero porque no lo pensaron antes, si tuvieron el 2019 de actualizaciones mediocres para realizar eso?, o sera que trabajaron tanto en el tercer eidolon de el acuerdo joviano y railjack y los liches y el increíble evento que tanto esperábamos de la nueva guerra, que no les dio tiempo de realizar deadloock protocol y pulirlo para que se lanzara hace 2 meses como tenían previsto? ( sarcasmo). 

translated into english

Exactly, they always look for any excuse to lengthen things, that if the covid-19 that if the protests of the United States, that if they cannot access the recording studios (eye that not being able to access the recording studio is understandable) but because they did not think about it before, if they had the 2019 of mediocre updates to do that ?, or could it be that they worked so much on the third eidolon of the Jovian agreement and railjack and the liches and the incredible event that we so much expected from the new war, that we did not Did you have time to perform the deadloock protocol and polish it to launch 2 months ago as planned? (sarcasm).

Edited by DestroyerF5
Traducir al ingles, translated into english.

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can someone translate DestroyerF5? I tried with google translator but 50% doesnt make really sense. would like to understand what he said.

Ty

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, DestroyerF5 said:

Soy latino, asi que agradeceria que tradujeras esto.

___En fin a lo que vamos, no entiendo porque hay gente que todavia defiende a DE, que si se retrasan por el tiempo lo defienden, que si scarlett spear salio roto lo defienden, que si los liches salieron extremadamente roto lo defiende, que si en el 2019 practicamente no tuvimos actualizaciones de calidad lo defienden, que si las ultimas actualizaciones de warframe (sin contar railjack revisited, glassmaker y mainline que estuvieron bastante buenas para lo que son actualizaciones pequeñas) que salieron rotas lo defienden solo porque son fan de Digital extremes y de warframe, eso no esta bien porque hay que criticar al juego para que mejore no conformarnos con lo que traer roto, y no me vengas a decir que no tenian tiempo para pulir deadlock protocol porque si que tuvieron tiempo, que no basto el año 2019 de actualizaciones practicamente mediocres para pulir las actualizaciones del 2020?, y no me vengas con que Tio es que el covid-19 arruino todo, porque sabes y saben que no es asi, DE no se esta sabiendo administrar como compañia triple AAA que son, y ojo acepto que me traigan deadloock protocol esta o maximo la otra semana, porque quiero que salga bien y pulida porque la espero mucho ya que no hemos tenido actualizaciones grandes de gran calidad y ojala que esa mala racha se rompa con deadloock protocol, pero lo que si no acepto es que se tarden como 4 semanas sin traer el proximo capitulo de glassmaker, porque ya estoy viendo venir que intentaran alargar lo mas que puedan glasskamer y eso arruinara la historia, eso arruinara el interes de nosotros y la consistencia de la misma.

I'm Latino, so I'd appreciate it if you would translate this. ___In order to what we are going, I do not understand why there are people who still defend DE, that if they are delayed by time they defend it, that if scarlett spear came out broken they defend it, that if the liches came out extremely broken it defends it, that if In 2019 we practically had no quality updates defend it, that if the latest warframe updates (not counting railjack revisited, glassmaker and mainline that were quite good for what are small updates) that came out broken they defend it only because they are fans of Digital extremes and of warframe, that is not good because you have to criticize the game so that it improves not to settle for what to bring broken, and do not come to tell me that they did not have time to polish deadlock protocol because they did have time, that the year was not enough 2019 of practically mediocre updates to polish the updates of 2020 ?, and do not come to me with Tio is that the covid-19 ruined everything, because you know and they know that it is not like that, DE n or it is knowing how to manage it as a triple AAA company that they are, and eye I accept that they bring me deadloock protocol this or maximum the other week, because I want it to go well and polished because I expect it a lot since we have not had large updates of great quality and hopefully That bad streak is broken with the deadloock protocol, but what I do not accept is that it takes about 4 weeks without bringing the next chapter of glassmaker, because I am already seeing that they will try to extend as much as they can and that it will ruin the story, that will ruin our interest and its consistency.

19 hours ago, DestroyerF5 said:

Exacto, siempre buscan cualquier excusa para alargar las cosas, que si el covid-19 que si las protestas de estados unidos, que si no pueden acceder a los estudios de grabación ( que ojo el no poder acceder al estudio de grabación es entendible) pero porque no lo pensaron antes, si tuvieron el 2019 de actualizaciones mediocres para realizar eso?, o sera que trabajaron tanto en el tercer eidolon de el acuerdo joviano y railjack y los liches y el increíble evento que tanto esperábamos de la nueva guerra, que no les dio tiempo de realizar deadloock protocol y pulirlo para que se lanzara hace 2 meses como tenían previsto? ( sarcasmo). 

Exactly, they always look for any excuse to lengthen things, that if the covid-19 that if the protests of the United States, that if they cannot access the recording studios (eye that not being able to access the recording studio is understandable) but because they did not think about it before, if they had the 2019 of mediocre updates to do that ?, or could it be that they worked so much on the third eidolon of the Jovian agreement and railjack and the liches and the incredible event that we so much expected from the new war, that we did not Did you have time to perform the deadloock protocol and polish it to launch 2 months ago as planned? (Sarcasm).

Edited by Ysmirdragon
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19 hours ago, Aroneos said:

alguien puede traducir DestroyerF5? Lo intenté con el traductor de google pero el 50% no tiene mucho sentido. quisiera entender lo que dijo.

Ty

Ready I already translated, let me know if you understood the translation or not

19 hours ago, Ysmirdragon said:

Exactamente, siempre buscan alguna excusa para alargar las cosas, eso si el covid-19 eso si las protestas de los Estados Unidos, eso si no pueden acceder a los estudios de grabación (ojo que no se puede acceder al estudio de grabación es comprensible) pero ¿porque no lo pensaron antes, si tenían el 2019 de actualizaciones mediocres para hacer eso? ¿O podría ser que trabajaron tanto en el tercer eidolon del acuerdo joviano y el railjack y los liches y el increíble evento que tuvimos? tanto esperado de la nueva guerra, que no lo hicimos ¿Tuviste tiempo para realizar el protocolo deadloock y pulirlo para lanzarlo hace 2 meses como estaba planeado? (Sarcasmo).

Thanks for translate!!!

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2 hours ago, Draconicdisciple said:

Are you saying they should just release it bug-ridden now since it is impossible to release something without a possible bug?

I'm saying that people shoudn't get their hopes of an update (almost) free of bugs too high at this point, given the history of updates on this game. I hope I'm in the wrong here, but I also doubt that I am.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 4 heures, p_silveira a dit :

I'm saying that people shoudn't get their hopes of an update (almost) free of bugs too high at this point, given the history of updates on this game. I hope I'm in the wrong here, but I also doubt that I am.

No one likes bugs, and no one hopes for an update free of bugs. But it's astonishing how the "why wait anyway, give us the thing now" comes back everytime before an update. ( The same you see 24h after howling : "THIS **** NEEDS FIX")

Suddenly, while being subject to an apparently unbearable frustration, everybody is a technical expert, a veteran programmer with a cristal clear representation of the job.

Edited by Stonehenge
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12 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

"why wait anyway, give us the thing now"

I literally did not said those words, tho. Geezus, chill a little bit on the whitekinghtin' and read other people's comments for what they are, not what you want them to be to preach on.
What I said the update is probably gonna be bugged to hell, as most of them were in the past, I never said a word about "they should rush to deliver it asap either way". 

17 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

Suddenly, while being subject to an apparently unbearable frustration, everybody is a technical expert, a veteran programmer with a cristal clear representation of the job.

While it has absolutely nothing to do with my previous comment(s), I'm going to answer it anyway. People are frustrated because they are constantly being lied on the face about when things are going to hit the game. This has been happening for a loooong time now. If you are going to give people a deadline to deliver something and fail multiple times on the delivery dates you set up for yourself, for several times in a (almost?) a row, it's only natural that those people are going to get on edge about it. DE could at least give the playerbase the "real" deadlines, not keep promising to deliver something on a week when they know they will only be able to deliver it weeks or months later. 
Guess what happens when they keep doing that? Oh, right, people come to fhe forums frustrated.

Oh, and for the love of satan, don't come back at me with the old "the playerbase isn't entitled to anything, this is a free game" argument. The playerbase isn't doing the frustrated thing because it feels entitled to it, it is doing it because DE themselves set a deadline for many updates that they are lying about? and never delivers when they said they would. If they didn't do the false expected dates on the first place, way less of the frustrated thing would be happening.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, p_silveira said:

I literally did not said those words, tho. Geezus, chill a little bit on the whitekinghtin' and read other people's comments for what they are, not what you want them to be to preach on.
What I said the update is probably gonna be bugged to hell, as most of them were in the past, I never said a word about "they should rush to deliver it asap either way". 

While it has absolutely nothing to do with my previous comment(s), I'm going to answer it anyway. People are frustrated because they are constantly being lied on the face about when things are going to hit the game. This has been happening for a loooong time now. If you are going to give people a deadline to deliver something and fail multiple times on the delivery dates you set up for yourself, for several times in a (almost?) a row, it's only natural that those people are going to get on edge about it. DE could at least give the playerbase the "real" deadlines, not keep promising to deliver something on a week when they know they will only be able to deliver it weeks or months later. 
Guess what happens when they keep doing that? Oh, right, people come to fhe forums frustrated.

Oh, and for the love of satan, don't come back at me with the old "the playerbase isn't entitled to anything, this is a free game" argument. The playerbase isn't doing the frustrated thing because it feels entitled to it, it is doing it because DE themselves set a deadline for many updates that they are lying about? and never delivers when they said they would. If they didn't do the false expected dates on the first place, way less of the frustrated thing would be happening.

I've seen lots of people complain about DE not communicating release dates, and then people complaining about DE giving release dates and not following them. DE clearly can't please anyone because regardless of whether they communicate it or not, people are gonna complain. You're expecting them to never have a setback, to always have it done? That's just gonna be a buggy mess since game development takes longer than most people realize. You keep saying they lie, when it seems like its being upset that making games takes time and they can't give a completely accurate date all the time without shipping incomplete projects. 

12 hours ago, p_silveira said:

I literally did not said those words, tho. Geezus, chill a little bit on the whitekinghtin' [......]would be happening.

I think you got me completely wrong. Wasn't trying to attack you or invalid your point, thought it was just relevant to add what i said. Anyway, i wont answer about the rest, it's useless when you offend people without even doing it on purpose. Better drink a beer. Cheers.

Edited by Draconicdisciple
Changed wording
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, p_silveira said:

While it has absolutely nothing to do with my previous comment(s), I'm going to answer it anyway. People are frustrated because they are constantly being lied on the face about when things are going to hit the game. This has been happening for a loooong time now. If you are going to give people a deadline to deliver something and fail multiple times on the delivery dates you set up for yourself, for several times in a (almost?) a row, it's only natural that those people are going to get on edge about it. DE could at least give the playerbase the "real" deadlines, not keep promising to deliver something on a week when they know they will only be able to deliver it weeks or months later. 
Guess what happens when they keep doing that? Oh, right, people come to fhe forums frustrated.

When did DE ever give a set release date for anything?
For as long as I can remember, I specifically recall the use of the word "targeting". That's what DE has always said: "We're targeting a [insert month] release" with a possible [insert month] delay buffer".
They never said "We're releasing [insert update name] on [insert specific dd/mm/yy - HH:mm:ss]" (or at least not that I remember, feel free to correct me)
I understand the content drought issue, but the frustration you're talking about comes from entitlement. As long as DE doesn't say specifically when they plan to release something, I can't get mad at them for this reason alone. Ah, if you combine poor communication with content drought and unnecessary hype, then yeah, you have the recipe for frustration, otherwise, to me at least, all complains are invalid.

Edited by DeLawrence
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il y a 9 minutes, DeLawrence a dit :

When did DE ever give a set release date for anything?
For as long as I can remember, I specifically recall the use of the word "targeting". That's what DE has always said: "We're targeting a [insert month] release" with a possible [insert month] delay buffer".
They never said "We're releasing [insert update name] on [insert specific dd/mm/yy - HH:mm:ss]" (or at least not that I remember, feel free to correct me)
I understand the content drought issue, but the frustration you're talking about comes from entitlement. As long as DE doesn't say specifically when they plan to release something, I can't get mad at them for this reason alone. Ah, if you combine poor communication with content drought and unnecessary hype, then yeah, you have the recipe for frustration, otherwise, to me at least, all complains are invalid.

Exactly.

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1 hour ago, DeLawrence said:

When did DE ever give a set release date for anything?

They used to back in 2016 and ... guess what ? When they didn't meet the deadline people started bashing them. Specters of the Rails update was one of those update that was so rushed to meet the deadline they spent month on fixing it.

Since then they decided to always be vague about update releases and people would still bash them for the delays.

I understand people in the community sometimes want different things (hence why sometimes you can get so many diverging opinions) but you need to be consistent. Clearly the community doesn't like when the updates are under baked as we've seen with old blood, railjack and scarlet spear updates. So better wait then have DE set themselves a release date that would only make for a buggier update because they wanted to meet the deadline.

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Posted (edited)

DE never said that Dreadlock Protocl will come in the 1st week of June. The target date was set from late May to early June, and the last one I read from DE was that they are targeting June 11th so next week. Note, they are targeting, not promising.

As a Software Engineering student I can perfectly well understand why updates take so long to test and why even on release they still have bugs. DE isn't a triple AAA company, they are an indie developer who self-publish their own games and while their studio is bigger than average indie developers are, they are far from the kind of resources available for AAA video game development companies have, both monetary and staff amount.

The reason why bugs can not be avoided is a well known truth that it is simply not mathematically possible to be able to test every possible thing that can go wrong and cause a bug in a code. First of all testing takes a lot of time and it is about as expensive as developing the game itself. Second of all the amount of things that can go wrong are so numerous, that even if you had unlimited money you would have to spend tens of years testing a software before it would not have any bugs. Just for context some of the most advanced software programming languages can have up to millions of different commands and the problem can be caused by any code communication error anywhere in the code simply due to a logic error or resource directing itself in an unexpected way.

For example to print a line 'Hello World' into a black and white console (windows key + r, and write: cmd) on Java SE with NetBeans compiler requires the following code:

package helloworldexample;

public class HelloWorld {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        System.out.println("Hello World");
    }
}

//Prints output string: Hello World

All of that and functionally it doesn't even do a whole lot. Now imagine you do any real software that has to perform complex calculations and functions. Yeah, it does take time to code and develop tens of thousands of lines of code. Let alone test for quality, so let us calculate that next:

We have 20 testers that each work 8 hours a day and 5 days per week (roughly 70% of month) for 3 months time. We will assume no holidays are taken place on workdays.
The average length of a month in 2020 is: (31 + 29 + 31 + 30 + 31 + 30 + 31 + 31 + 30 + 31 + 30 + 31) / 12 = (366) / 12 = 30.5.
Since weekends are days off and a Q&A tester works for 5 days a week (roughly 70% of the month), the days of work per month is:
0.7 * 30.5 = 21.35 = ~21 workdays each month.
For a single tester that makes: 8h * 21 = 168 hours of testing per month.
For 3 months for a single tester the amount of time tested makes: 3 * 168 h = 504 hours of testing in total.
For 20 testes for 3 months testing time it makes: 20 * 540 h = 10 080 hours of total testing done.

For the purposes of this contextual calculation I will only be relying on the numbers gained from Steam Charts which does not even show every active PC player: https://steamcharts.com/app/230410 - the current amount of participants in May on average was 49 687.1 players. Let us round it up for real numbers ~49 687. For 49 687 players to achieve the same time played and tested the game as the above the 20 testers have managed to achieve in 3 months time:
x = 10 080 / 49 687 = 0.20286996598
The amount of time 49 687 players need to play to get the same amount of hours as the 20 testers did:
60 minutes * x = 60 minutes * 0.20286996598 = 12.171979588 minutes = ~12 minutes.

Can you perhaps now understand the resource amount gap and why despite Q&A testers doing their best, it is simply mathematically impossible that testers have enough time and monetary resources to be able test the game enough for it to be bug free. Given how much constraints there are and how much can go wrong, the value of Q&A testers to guarantee even the level of smooth gameplay experience you do enjoy already is enormous. Add on top that most game developers in the world get average salaries, way less than industry standards are, you should be more grateful, and perhaps you can now be a bit more understanding as well going forward.

Edited by BETAOPTICS
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7 hours ago, BETAOPTICS said:

"As a Software Engineering student"

You know that people are just gonna read this, then not bother with the rest?, most people lately just want the update out and be done with it and with my experience of going to game forums and such, saying "I am X" is met with "Yeah, sure you are". Cuz the whole tread of memes lately is "I am the Navy seal commander and cuz of that I have this".

But other then that Interesting mathematics, tho I don't think trying to get people to understand "Making a game is hard" is gonna do anything, with the comminty and telling them they should be grateful is a really bold move.

But I have to say, I whuold love to be in your shoes, cuz I'll admit I whuold love to see how it is and try to understand it that way it is, but maybe I should be careful what I wish for.

9 hours ago, vaur06 said:

They used to back in 2016 and ... guess what ? When they didn't meet the deadline people started bashing them. Specters of the Rails update was one of those update that was so rushed to meet the deadline they spent month on fixing it.

Huh, I don't remaber that, that was quite some time ago, do you kown if they made an official response to it?  

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1 hour ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Huh, I don't remaber that, that was quite some time ago, do you kown if they made an official response to it?  

No, they didn't. To be honest any official statement would not be well received. They just stopped given release dates.

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5 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

Is deadluck protocool today?

hopefully but lets not push them  ❤️ 

Much love to DE 

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12 минут назад, Deshiel сказал:

Is deadluck protocool today?

First, they will create a video about ProTea and than Its finally come out.

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5 hours ago, BETAOPTICS said:

DE never said that Dreadlock Protocl will come in the 1st week of June. The target date was set from late May to early June, and the last one I read from DE was that they are targeting June 11th so next week. Note, they are targeting, not promising.

 

Would be cool if you actually gave a source for where you read that like you did with the steamcharts, considering you're the only one mentioning that date and the last I read was June 5th here        

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hace 11 minutos, Splophanx dijo:

Would be cool if you actually gave a source for where you read that like you did with the steamcharts, considering you're the only one mentioning that date and the last I read was June 5th here        

Note, the logo in the twitter account didnt change yet, and its usually changed a couple of days before releasing a big update. 2-3 days before usually. I think its the next week.

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Il y a 5 heures, BETAOPTICS a dit :

DE never said that Dreadlock Protocl will come in the 1st week of June. The target date was set from late May to early June, and the last one I read from DE was that they are targeting June 11th so next week. Note, they are targeting, not promising.

They did say in the last devstream that it was supposed to be released this week BUT considering the current situation in the United States, DE's statement and the pandemic, it is perfectly understandable if it's released next week.

The only thing that's bothering me is the lack of communication. Again.
Even a tweet would be sufficient.

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hace 3 minutos, ---EG---Zexal dijo:

They did say in the last devstream that it was supposed to be released this week BUT considering the current situation in the United States, DE's statement and the pandemic, it is perfectly understandable if it's released next week.

The only thing that's bothering me is the lack of communication. Again.
Even a tweet would be sufficient.

110% agree. Lack of communication. Cant understand why they do it so bad when its so easy to do it right.

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