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Midas

Lets have a discussion about, 'forum toxicity and sassy responses'.

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Sometimes, certain people are so blind to their own beliefs and ignorant of others and how they impact others around them that you have no other conceivable way of communicating other than through anger and disbelief.

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4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Sassy responses are acceptable, as long as they're from me. :wink:

 

They are fundamental. Without you this forum will not be the same. I have to agree on that, lol. 

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Posted (edited)

It's pretty standard levels of toxicity for a gaming forum. Only thing I've seen that amazes me is the amount of skill elitism in a game known for being super easy and being a PVE game with nothing comparable to raids. I was t500 in overwatch, I got to see first hand how people who use their rank as an excuse to shut down people's opinions completely acted, But it's somehow worse in Warframe.

Edited by stormy505
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I've never been on a forum that is even in the same league of toxicity as these forums (this is even worse than the Pokemon GameFaqs forum during the dexit riot, where I got death threats for posting hype posts saying I was excited for so and so pokemon and choosing the team I would use, etc.). Every single time I, or someone else, posts positive, constructive, well thought out feedback, we get S#&$ upon and torn apart by people. Most of the time it's 95% toxicity with 5% of people actually responding to the post and doing so in a constructive, well thought out manner, but sometimes there is 100% toxicity. I've gotten threats from people in response to forum posts. It's awful. I believe part of the reason may be because the mods don't punish the perpetrators, and instead just delete the original forum post no matter how innocent it was. This creates an incentive for toxic people to behave toxicly since they know they will get away with it, and on top of that, completely silence the thread poster. The current system ENCOURAGES toxicity instead of punishing it. The modders have to crack down hard on people who give sassy responses that contribute nothing to the post, and especially on people who go off on rants calling you an entitled, idiotic youth who sucks off their mommy's thumb, as the "nicest" example I can give. I barely visit these forums anymore since I can't even post a warframe appreciation thread without it getting derailed by toxicity. So far, as far as I know, the only thread I've posted in a year which hasn't gotten derailed is my most recent Nezha Prime hype thread, even though someone I won't name tried to derail it. These forums are sick and need major moderation badly.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Not the forums.. I'm currently making a post on how feedback threads need to be locked for people to not shut down ideas that don't even affect them in the first place.

That is one of the negative effects here linking toxicity with warframe uniquely. It may happen on other games but I know it shuts off people really fast :*(

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4 hours ago, MorradiX said:

I realized many years ago during my WoW days...official, heavily moderated  forums are simply a place companies supply to let  frustrated players blow off steam in a controlled manner  ....

 

That is their main purpose,and it will never change 😕

Thank you wise one, your gaming sage experience speaks volumes! (I played during cata but never big on the forums).

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4 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

The only corners of WF that I've found "toxic" are competitive Eidolon farming, and people on trade chat selling grossly overpriced Prime sets to noobs that haven't learned about .market yet. Most forum negativity here strikes me as the usual venting, and while riven trading has its share of jerks, it gets way more hate than it deserves.

another nail on the head that I agree with.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

Way too many trolls lately just trying to ruin the game or annoy people on here. Wish the mods would actually be more proactive here

Same.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

What do you consider toxic?

But to answer the question; it is entirely possible to change the tone of a thread and the Forums overall by putting in the extra effort to expand on ideas and add clarifying comments.

I made some above quotes on things people have pointed out that I see as very harmful toxicity towards Warframe (I guess this would define my stance on it). From everyone elses opinion, I can see that toxicity is natural in language. When it comes to certain ingame aspects, it can be detrimental greatly to the gaming environment.

Edited by Midas

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For tone, I think these forums are pretty tame, on par IMO with most other GaaS General Forums I have encountered, been playing GaaS since Asheron's Call.

I see the usual rising tide around new content releases and the drop off after the content locusts have passed, I see the usual handful of forum posters on various sides of various circular arguments, I see lots of good and bad ideas and lots of good and bad discussion.

 

@MorradiX, IMO, has the right of it, but I take it a step further, because I am just that cynical. 🙂 

Forums of this nature exist IMO for the sole purpose of giving gamers a way to let them feel they are making a difference while they kvetch about the game.

Since it's the 'official' forums, they get to think the game company cares about them and that their tirades have some meaning beyond just blowing off steam, over the reality of most of the tirades being a lack of emotional maturity and self control.

We are consumers of a mass-produced product and we can vote with our wallets, that's all the power we really have and all we really need, IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Midas said:

I made some above quotes on things people have pointed out that I see as very harmful toxicity towards Warframe (I guess this would define my stance on it). From everyone elses opinion, I can see that toxicity is natural in language. When it comes to certain ingame aspects, it can be detrimental greatly to the environment.

I was looking those over, not sure I'd use such generalizations as "competitive Eidolon hunting" to show toxicity.  There are elements within that demographic that can be toxic, yes, not denying that in the least but, it's not inherently toxic like the phrase implies.  My clan is named Sibling Rivalry and we used to have competitive Eidolon hunts between my brother and I and the most toxic it got was the two of us using awful childhood nicknames on whomever didn't finish their kill/capture first.

Is that truly toxic?  How does that effect the rest of the community, in game and on the Forums?   (to be clear, I'm using a very minor example of behavior that could be labeled toxicity by an outside party)

Same for the player market.  It's not inherently toxic but it has toxic elements to it.  One can't say something is "grossly overpriced" because prices are subjective to what the buyer and seller decide to be the items worth, there are no set prices beyond what DE establishes.  The toxicity comes when a seller decides to lash out at someone for not being willing to pay their price or a buyer choosing to lash out for being frustrated at the current asking prices.  Again, the generalization used implies the mere act is the basis for toxicity and not the very human and subjective element.

From what I'm seeing in the responses here, behavior is being labeled toxicity for a variety of reasons;

  • Either someone doesn't have the maturity to distinguish between disagreement and insult
  • They aren't willing to admit they don't understand a response, so they lash out
  • Someone doesn't understand the context of a subjective situation and labels it toxic because of how it does or doesn't align with their own internal reasoning.

Hek, I was told I'm toxic for putting players on ignore at one point, so...

There are cases of blatant, no grey area, toxicity however, I'm in no way denying that, but that level is fairly rare in the Forms of late, if you come at it with a subjective eye.  (Granted, I'm not looking out for examples)  

idk, I've been seeing a lot of people get up in arms over things that they don't realize aren't effecting them.  They seem to have this directive that if they read it, they are required to share their opinion on it, even if they don't have the information or experience to have formed a coherent one.  And not a lot of people are willing to back down and admit they came from a place of ignorance.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

I've never been on a forum that is even in the same league of toxicity as these forums (this is even worse than the Pokemon GameFaqs forum during the dexit riot, where I got death threats for posting hype posts saying I was excited for so and so pokemon and choosing the team I would use, etc.). Every single time I, or someone else, posts positive, constructive, well thought out feedback, we get S#&$ upon and torn apart by people. Most of the time it's 95% toxicity with 5% of people actually responding to the post and doing so in a constructive, well thought out manner, but sometimes there is 100% toxicity. I've gotten threats from people in response to forum posts. It's awful. I believe part of the reason may be because the mods don't punish the perpetrators, and instead just delete the original forum post no matter how innocent it was. This creates an incentive for toxic people to behave toxicly since they know they will get away with it, and on top of that, completely silence the thread poster. The current system ENCOURAGES toxicity instead of punishing it. The modders have to crack down hard on people who give sassy responses that contribute nothing to the post, and especially on people who go off on rants calling you an entitled, idiotic youth who sucks off their mommy's thumb, as the "nicest" example I can give. I barely visit these forums anymore since I can't even post a warframe appreciation thread without it getting derailed by toxicity. So far, as far as I know, the only thread I've posted in a year which hasn't gotten derailed is my most recent Nezha Prime hype thread, even though someone I won't name tried to derail it. These forums are sick and need major moderation badly.

It's the same on the popular Warframe discords. It's the same in Region chat where so called experienced players do nothing but craft sarcastic, unhelpful and unnecessarily sexual comments towards those seeking help. Gameplay guidance and build advice given with dictatorial authority rather than understanding the new player's perspective (telling them this gun sucks, that fancy one you can't ever afford to build at low MR is good)

I've decided if I wanted actual help I will seek it from fellow new players and figure out the solution together like NASA used to do. And I have started to donate Prime warframes and weapons to these little troubleshooting committees ❤️ 

Edited by Laxmibai
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6 hours ago, Midas said:

Warframe's toxic forum culture?

I don't understand why you're calling it "culture".

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Posted (edited)

this is probably the coolest most relaxed community ive ever been a part of

usually people will seem to attack you if you make suggestions without knowing a single detail, like yelling about account migration or cross play, subject has been beat to actual death, like its cause of death was blunt force trama and its time of death was like 4 or 5 years ago, has nothing to do with DE at all, doesnt matter how many threads or posts are created about it as it doesnt help at all, all it does is clog up the forums, cause DE isnt the ones stopping it, the consoles are, so you post a thread like that without looking anything up, your getting some heat

or post a thread asking for a nerf of a character or weapon that you dont own and have never used, you dont own it and never used it so you have no say if it should get adjusted, just because it looked to you that they were powerful, they might have forma'd the living hell outta stuff for end game missions and yea they can wipe the floor with enemies on jupiter, news flash most of the start chart is part of the games "tutorial" where until the last 3 or 4 planets, you wont even see enemies above level 30 (enemies can go up to lvl 150 lasttime i actually looked i think its higher now) till like 30 minutes in and noone stays 30 minutes anyway, im not even joking most of us older players have a kubrow or kavat that can solo 25 to 30 waves in io, jupiter and it wouldnt even break a sweat

 

or also posting a thread, hammering DE about stuff you dont like in the game but adding nothing else, no suggestion, no this could be better if....., nothing, youll get hate as well cause first theres no discussion points or anything, your just bashing the devs, probably fishing for like minded ppl to jump on the wagon, so youll have ppl defend DE knowing that they still are a very small INDIE game company, that just happens to have a game worthy of a AAA title, catches ppl off guard sometimes and they forget DE is still indie with a game still in beta

 

besides those points specifically and a few others ive probably missed mentioning, this is the greatest most non toxic community ive ever been a part of

head on over the DC forums and post, just a general question and see what happens to you (im not even joking you will be verbally shredded into small pieces of what you once were)

and meanwhile ive still yet to find a place that has more 10 year olds that have "banged my mom" then on xbox live

 

so yea for me warframe is very non toxic with most stuff but there is some areas where we bite lol

Edited by Tokens210

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55 minutes ago, Laxmibai said:

It's the same on the popular Warframe discords. It's the same in Region chat where so called experienced players do nothing but craft sarcastic, unhelpful and unnecessarily sexual comments towards those seeking help. Gameplay guidance and build advice given with dictatorial authority rather than understanding the new player's perspective (telling them this gun sucks, that fancy one you can't ever afford to build at low MR is good)

I've decided if I wanted actual help I will seek it from fellow new players and figure out the solution together like NASA used to do. And I have started to donate Prime warframes and weapons to these little troubleshooting committees ❤️ 

I'm sorry you've experienced all that bs in game. At least on the Switch, in game is perfectly fine. Region chat is filled with horny 12 year olds 24/7 and legit 7 year olds who shouldn't be playing this game, but other than that it's fine.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Not the forums.. I'm currently making a post on how feedback threads need to be locked for people to not shut down ideas that don't even affect them in the first place.

This is the one thing I hate the most around here.

When people try to shut down pretty much any idea, even if it doesn't affect them in any way whatsoever. And most of the time there's no justification, and if there is it's something like "we I don't need it". 

And most of the times when some of these proposals make their way into the game through the hard effort of those fighting for them against all unreasonable resistance, I see most of these people enjoying the change they didn't want while pretending nothing happened. Irks me to oblivion, if I'm being honest.

As for the topic itself, yes I do believe something can and should be done. What is it? I don't have an answer, sadly. But that's the main point of a community - making use of the many brains that make it up.

I do hope this thread isn't confused with a meta complaint. It'd be sad.

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7 hours ago, Midas said:

Do you believe that forum toxicity is bad or just plain natural?

Toxicity and snarky responses are not the same thing.

Not to mention that there's no way to stop it completely, except for using the ignore function, which I have gotten an unusual amount of mileage from the past 2-3 months.

The only thing I'd like to see change around here is the utter lack of any attempt at compromise for anything related to the concept of balance in the game.

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Personally, i don't find the Wf forums to be any more toxic than other game forums, especially compared to a few russian games where there's little to no moderation on the forums as well as in the game, other than maybe using a bot to censor 'bad' words.

Griefing and things such as ramming at some point was even considered a 'fun' thing in War Thunder(this might look innocent at first, but it was viewed by some people actively doing this as a way to 'punish' some playstyles and people doing this were actually seriously mad-shown by toxicity in the forums- at people using bombers in RB/SB and such, since that didn't play to the game's meta which was mainly centered around dogfighting-part of the truth is, bombers are badly implemented in that game and while being part of the meta in AB, are basically cannon fodder in RB-SB only meant to be used for farming and said to be game breaking in Simulator mode because of the exploitable 3.-rd person view, but the 'op-ness' of bombers was definitely overblown in RB), even appropriated by mods, but the community seems to have changed for the better imo., from what i have seen it's more mature now than it used to be a few years ago, not sure what caused this change though, probably kids moved on as the game aged or maybe the more toxic elements were weeded out over time since they probably annoyed some undercover mods, probably a mix of both.

Toxicity in the Warframe Forums-because of the relatively heavy moderation- usually boils down to a passively aggressive usage of memes to discredit an op and shoot down discussions, while adding nothing constructive to the discussions.

While this is generally considered a tame version of toxicity or normal, it's just as hurtful as regular toxicity exactly because of its low risk nature when utilized by trolls.

Another example i could bring up for toxicity is the votekick abuse in Warface (another co-op game, mostly dead in the Eu-Us servers)or several PvP games, it's generally more toxic since it directly affects the game as opposed to just affecting the forums, but in Warfrace it was 'excused' by the bad state of the matchmaking, leaving clans unable to host private sessions, even though it was also abused outside of that, just for the lols or other petty reasons. (good thing votekicks are not a thing here)

Imo. in game toxicity is very easy to handle in Warframe by using the 'ignore' function, but i would personally like to see this being expanded upon, since it doesn't affect the matchmaking at all, even though it should as griefing has many forms in a game, some of which are not verbal and permanent solutions are always the best for problem solving, meeting people on my ignore list doing annoying things reminds me time and time again of that. 😂

Maybe a player blocked by you and all your teammates in a pug should never be matched with you, i know that's not much, but it's more than what we currently have and it would be an improvement.

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No one needs toxicity and no one needs arrogant snarky responses on a VIDEO GAME forum. We where supposed to be talking about a video game only and the critique when DE simply drops the ball. 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

When people try to shut down pretty much any idea, even if it doesn't affect them in any way whatsoever.

This. I saw an idea for a pretty cool tank frame which would be able to transform into a 4 legged beast which would then have its own abilities for that form and the right click would be swiping with the front legs. (I'd mention the other abilities but I forgot what those were, but I'm pretty sure everyone was interested for its 4/ultimate ability of transforming.)

Some peoples response? "We AlReAdY hAvE nIdUs".

1: It was made before Nidus.

2: How is it in any way like Nidus? Can nidus transform into a beast form that's similar to Skyrims werewolf form? I think the f*ck not.

I can't stand people who do things like that. Even if it was similar to Nidus, which again, it wasn't, who cares? Lets pretend that the concept was like Nidus, it would still have had enough differences to warrant being put into the game, especially with a cool ability like its transformation.

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3 hours ago, Laxmibai said:

I've decided if I wanted actual help I will seek it from fellow new players and figure out the solution together like NASA used to do. And I have started to donate Prime warframes and weapons to these little troubleshooting committees ❤️ 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/WARFRAME_Wiki

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Midas said:

Is there anything toxic about the forums here that you'd like to see change? Or nah.

Oh mighty Devs! Forums are OP. Plz nerf!!!!

Edited by RFaul

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Yeah, they should add a limit to how many hours one can play the forums... Cuz some people have it as a 12 hour job in here.  

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Joltyboi said:

This. I saw an idea for a pretty cool tank frame which would be able to transform into a 4 legged beast which would then have its own abilities for that form and the right click would be swiping with the front legs. (I'd mention the other abilities but I forgot what those were, but I'm pretty sure everyone was interested for its 4/ultimate ability of transforming.)

Some peoples response? "We AlReAdY hAvE nIdUs".

1: It was made before Nidus.

2: How is it in any way like Nidus? Can nidus transform into a beast form that's similar to Skyrims werewolf form? I think the f*ck not.

I can't stand people who do things like that. Even if it was similar to Nidus, which again, it wasn't, who cares? Lets pretend that the concept was like Nidus, it would still have had enough differences to warrant being put into the game, especially with a cool ability like its transformation.

Correct. It also nauseates me because if we think about it we also have like 4-5 invisibility frames (and I'm a stealth player who started out with my dear Loki), lots of frames with different applications of the same theme and abilities, and all frames still manage to be unique. From Loki-Ivara-Limbo-Octavia-Wukong-Wisp to Rhino-Nezha, Volt-Gauss, etc, all of them are unique despite similarities.

The main point is that there's so much resistance to a certain idea before it gets implemented, but after it makes it's way into the game all those drama queens suddenly fade out as if nothing happened. As if they weren't trying to mindlessly prevent a good idea from happening.

Do they not want a four-legged beast? Ok, but at least say it's for mechanical reasons (we currently only have movement sets for bipedal frames) instead of "hurr durr nidus". Because even then we can still create a move set for said beast, even if it takes time and effort. If DE managed to come up with RJ and Open Worlds I think a four-legged frame is easily within their capabilities, should they want to. It could even open up a very interesting precedent for other types of frames.

If it were up to such people we'd never see the likes of Archwing, Railjack, Open Worlds, Cinematic Quests, Parkour, and so on. Why? "Because we don't need it. The game is good as it is, no need to evolve and push boundaries of creativity". 

Edited by (PS4)Hikuro-93
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