Chroma VS PT is unfair

[Melanholic7]

В 01.06.2020 в 12:15, Cerikus сказал:

Please, don't do this. Chroma is currently lying on the floor beaten almost to the death.. Give the PT to him at least.. It's the last thing he has 😢

Btw I 50% agree and 50% don't. Yeah the profit taker should give more cred to everybody and chromas 4 should not work on it.
But I always felt that Warframe is more like a puzzle. You need to find a correct piece that will solve it. Chroma is the solution to PT. He is not really solution to anything else anymore.

Not true. Chroma is actually best frame for a lot of situations.

For example, for Profit taker, or ...or...alot of other stuff! yes,alot of stuff, thats what i meant 😮 

[Zimzala]

First off, why do things have to be so 'fair'? Seriously, where is it written, stated, even implied that each WF will be 'fair' to take into any specific game mode?

Second, why do you care another player is getting a different reward than you do? Why is that relevent at all, that's just personal envy, IMO.

Third, to even start down this road implies that Frost, for example, is not 'fair' in how he can defend a static object as compared most frames, so where does this highway lead to?

FInally, I am sure there are players that know how to maximize profits all across the board, not just this easy example, so where does that stop? Are you going to advocate that all players now earn the same amount of credits per hour?

This is not even IMO a balance argument, this is just a statement of envy from a player upset another player got more of an ingame resource. In the words of a ticked off Peter Pan "Grow up".

[Methanoid]

On 2020-06-01 at 10:15 AM, Cerikus said:

Please, don't do this. Chroma is currently lying on the floor beaten almost to the death.. Give the PT to him at least.. It's the last thing he has 😢

Btw I 50% agree and 50% don't. Yeah the profit taker should give more cred to everybody and chromas 4 should not work on it.
But I always felt that Warframe is more like a puzzle. You need to find a correct piece that will solve it. Chroma is the solution to PT. He is not really solution to anything else anymore.

what does atlas have?  or several other frames at that.

[TARINunit9]

On 2020-06-01 at 2:19 AM, Haukaido said:

I think u overlooked why I think it's unfair.
u can get 500k credits per run using chroma
1m credits if u have a credit boost.
using another frame will only give u 125k credits.

"[Effigy] increases credits income by 60% while the Sentry is active. Credit chance and credit bonus are not affected by Ability Strength."

How are you turning 60% into 400%?

[SneakyErvin]

Let poor Smau... uhm, Fafn...uhm Nidho... uhm no wait I mean Chroma have his day in the dwarven swimming pool, it is the only place he is worth a damn.

#dragonlivesmatter

#sigurdwaswrong

#stopgramabuseofdragonsnow

#dragonsbeforedungeons

[JohnKable]

On 2020-06-01 at 11:19 AM, Haukaido said:

I think u overlooked why I think it's unfair.
u can get 500k credits per run using chroma
1m credits if u have a credit boost.

using another frame will only give u 125k credits.

Just because chroma is so badly designed it doesn't justify letting him strip the game out of content.
Chroma needs a rework.
a boss fight shouldn't be designed to work with just 1 frame in a game where u're supposed to switch frames like u switch guns.
Do u know how boring it is to play chroma and spam PT 4 or 5 times a day by just standing still and going BRRRRRRRRR?

I don't want that. I want to dodge and maneuver and make use of those PT mechanics. But rn there's no incentive for me to do so since I'm getting 3 times  or even 4 times less credits than chroma despite exerting more effort and arguably spending more time against the boss.

I can kill PT using Saryn in 10min
I can do it with octavia in 7min
with chroma it takes 5 minutes with minimum effort.
Yet the latter is the one that gives u more rewards. That's just bad game design.
 

PT is so easy that the difference between chroma and other frames is almost negligible as long as you bring good enough weapons. And for the double credits, i dont even question why you need credits so much, but its one of chroma's few perks.
Game's all about bringing the best tool for the job, for maximum loot at minimal effort/time. Chroma is the one good for PT, but if you want to enjoy yourself more, you can literally do it with any other frame,
Also its an enemy that after like 10 times, you basically have no reason to do again and its not a fun fight to begin with

[32768]

On 2020-06-01 at 12:08 PM, Haukaido said:

I want to see this inequality removed. Either give all frames increased credit boost against PT so that we  can play whatever frame we want against it. or prevent chroma from gaining more credits against this boss.

I want to see PT removed from the game and leave Chroma alone for a change?

[Cerikus]

58 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

what does atlas have?  or several other frames at that.

This logic is backwards actually.. because there are frames that don't excel in anything means, we can dostroy another frame that excels at least in one gamemode? 

Btw Atlas has 1 and you can build him to dps and/or tank, his 3 augment can be used for farming. If you like his playstyle, he can easily do anything.
Chroma has only profit taker now. Imho he is pretty much garbage anywhere else. 😞

[Galuf]

il y a 40 minutes, JohnKable a dit :

PT is so easy that the difference between chroma and other frames is almost negligible...

You ruined the fun. Sunday theorycrafters had their moment :D. Chroma looks god in PT for 2 reaons:

- You take damage

- You have to shoot with your guns

He will still be good in content like that, however with all the powercreep everywhere, honestly Chroma or not doesn't make any difference for most of us(I honestly wouldn't even notice a stacked vex armor on this fight)

Edited June 2, 2020 by Galuf

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Life is unfair. Are you upset that defense frames prevent enemies from destroying objectives?

I guess technically defense frames could farm kuva faster, therefore selling more grolls and getting filthy-video-game-rich at a faster rate lol.

[BRZZAFK]

5小时前 , Cerikus 说:

This logic is backwards actually.. because there are frames that don't excel in anything means, we can dostroy another frame that excels at least in one gamemode? 

Btw Atlas has 1 and you can build him to dps and/or tank, his 3 augment can be used for farming. If you like his playstyle, he can easily do anything.
Chroma has only profit taker now. Imho he is pretty much garbage anywhere else. 😞

How is Chroma has only profit taker? He still is a better tank and better damage compare to Atlas . Is there anything Atlas 1 can do but melee cant? 

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

On 2020-06-01 at 10:17 AM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Or just don't use chroma, man.

Some people like to get things done fast, others with style

I like both, i use gauss for profit taker.

This in a nutshell.

[Cerikus]

4 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

How is Chroma has only profit taker? He still is a better tank and better damage compare to Atlas . Is there anything Atlas 1 can do but melee cant? 

And Chroma is worse tank and worse damage compared to other frames. That doesn't matter. The thing is, that if you can pick a Warframe that you rarely use for a piece of content, because this warframe excels in it, it's good. If you nerf it for it, you are slowly reducing the whole roster to skins. 

Well, Atlas' 1 stacks with melee multiplier, uses melee mods, has invulnerability. I don't recal any other ability that can do that, but I may be mistaken. Also mixed with petrify, you heal yourself. That's powerful.

[BRZZAFK]

1分钟前 , Cerikus 说:

And Chroma is worse tank and worse damage compared to other frames. That doesn't matter. The thing is, that if you can pick a Warframe that you rarely use for a piece of content, because this warframe excels in it, it's good. If you nerf it for it, you are slowly reducing the whole roster to skins. 

Well, Atlas' 1 stacks with melee multiplier, uses melee mods, has invulnerability. I don't recal any other ability that can do that, but I may be mistaken. Also mixed with petrify, you heal yourself. That's powerful.

So you propose we should do it even in the futrue update? Use xxx frame otherwise you get half of the reward. 

[Cerikus]

2 minutes ago, BRZZAFK said:

So you propose we should do it even in the futrue update? Use xxx frame otherwise you get half of the reward. 

No, for the love of god, most definitely not.

But what should be and what can be are two entirely different things. Warframe is literally unbalancable and I don't find anything worng about that. I just cannot agree with someone asking for nefring, because a frame is better at something and I am trying to give my counterarguments.

[BRZZAFK]

8分钟前 , Cerikus 说:

No, for the love of god, most definitely not.

But what should be and what can be are two entirely different things. Warframe is literally unbalancable and I don't find anything worng about that. I just cannot agree with someone asking for nefring, because a frame is better at something and I am trying to give my counterarguments.

Idk man.loot ability is a mistake in the first place. It's not really about chroma any more. chroma has it's own issuse but it doesnt justify the mistake.

Edited June 3, 2020 by BRZZAFK

[Magus_Tahir]

1 hour ago, BRZZAFK said:

Idk man.loot ability is a mistake in the first place. It's not really about chroma any more. chroma has it's own issuse but it doesnt justify the mistake.

I disagree I do not see it as a mistake and I would reckon most don't.

Games where you can spend real money to purchase boosters for in-game resources whether it be credits or materials it is always good practice to have an avenue(s) available to get a boost on those resources without actually having to pay for a booster.

This practice rewards players for getting the in-game items necessary to do this and provides them something to look forward to as they gain more of the games tools.

In many ways because of the player created content that has been created around these types of warframes it acts as a draw to an informed player who does their research.

For example most players don't even know that your first mission of the day rewards you double credits. I take Nekros with the Secura Lecta and Smeeta Kavat on Ceres dark sector and in 5 waves of defense walk out 150k or more credits. It's such a small thing but when I am under a certain credit threshold I make sure to do this every day.

And to be perfectly honest a lot of the commentary in this entire thread gives me the impression of somebody arguing from the point of view that Olympic gold medalists shouldn't win gold because there are people doing the same event that are not as skilled as they are. It strikes me as the world of Harrison Bergeron its dystopian and stifling to want to make a change to Chroma because of one instance of where the Frame shines but I digress.

Given the lack of traction on this thread I'll conclude the silent majority says Chroma on PT is fine as is. And so is the credit situation.

P.s. Highly recomend Kurt Vonnegut's short story. It offers a very interesting perspective on dystopian settings.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Magus_Tahir

[BRZZAFK]

42分钟前 , Magus_Tahir 说:

I disagree I do not see it as a mistake and I would reckon most don't.

Games where you can spend real money to purchase boosters for in-game resources whether it be credits or materials it is always good practice to have an avenue(s) available to get a boost on those resources without actually having to pay for a booster.

The loot ability doesnt replace boosters it work together so it doesnt solve the problem.

42分钟前 , Magus_Tahir 说:

This practice rewards players for getting the in-game items necessary to do this and provides them something to look forward to as they gain more of the games tools.

In many ways because of the player created content that has been created around these types of warframes it acts as a draw to an informed player who does their research.

This it's why we need wiki to play the game. Not saying i against the idea. But you get where it come from when the new player saying it's a "pay to win game" or "game is too grindy" bacause they dont know how to grind properly

42分钟前 , Magus_Tahir 说:

Given the lack of traction on this thread I'll conclude the silent majority says Chroma on PT is fine as is. And so is the credit situation.

Again it's not about how good Chroma is on PT or not. It's about using Chroma become mandatory if you want your reward. If you be ok with DE cut in half your reward just because you didnt use the specific frame they demand then... you do you. That's not my understanding of video game.

Edited June 3, 2020 by BRZZAFK

[Magus_Tahir]

9 minutes ago, BRZZAFK said:

If you be ok with DE cut in half your reward just because you didnt use the specific frame they demand then... you do you. That's not my understanding of video game.

Its not cut in half, you get more for bringing better tools to the job. Everyone gets the same base start. What you bring past that starting point determines the outcome you get. 

Your logic basically says that you should get the same amount of credits as someone who bought a credit booster when you don't have one yourself. Thats not how this game works.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Magus_Tahir

[Talinthis]

Most I got from a pt run is a bit over 8 million. Vallis event boost + double credit weekend + cred booster + chroma effigy + 2x smeeta buff.  Good times.

[BRZZAFK]

34分钟前 , Magus_Tahir 说:

Its not cut in half, you get more for bringing better tools to the job. Everyone gets the same base start. What you bring past that starting point determines the outcome you get. 

Your logic basically says that you should get the same amount of credits as someone who bought a credit booster when you don't have one yourself. Thats not how this game works.

So you saying you prefer devs force meta?

You think you "earn" the reward because you know better but i dont take it this way. I think this is the calssic way of devs trying to force you to do thing in their way because they know player always gonna choose the best tool to do it. They "design" the game mode to letting you use specific frame. But in result it make the game mode has no variety and killing the little replayability it has.

They can make NYX become "the best tool" for PT if they triple the reward she get. But it will not solve her problem of being irrelevant in rest of game mode and force player to use poorly functional warframe in the fight(PT).

I really dont think it's a great design.

Edited June 3, 2020 by BRZZAFK

[Magus_Tahir]

29 minutes ago, BRZZAFK said:

So you saying you prefer devs force meta?

You think you "earn" the reward because you know better but i dont take it this way. I think this is the calssic way of devs trying to force you to do thing in their way because they know player always gonna choose the best tool to do it. But in result it make the game mode has no variety and killing the little replayability it has.

They can make NYX become "the best tool" for PT if they triple the reward she get. But it will not solve her problem of being irrelevant in rest of game mode and force player to use poorly functional warframe in the fight(PT).

I really dont think it's a great design.

You're going to have to pick that this is either a discussion on the games reward systems or if this is a discussion on the game's player-created methods for completing content with the minimal amount of effort and time investment.

While these can overlap at points the Devs are not the ones creating the meta it is the players that create the meta and the ones who communicate their discoveries are the players, and other players follow suit because either one they think it's cool or agree it is the most effective route.

That said this discussion is at an impasse as you are adding new elements to push it beyond the original confines of game design concerning the fairness of the base loot reward systems and how players can maximize it to their benefit.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[BRZZAFK]

19分钟前 , Magus_Tahir 说:

You're going to have to pick that this is either a discussion on the games reward systems or if this is a discussion on the game's player-created methods for completing content with the minimal amount of effort and time investment.

While these can overlap at points the Devs are not the ones creating the meta it is the players that create the meta and the ones who communicate their discoveries are the players, and other players follow suit because either one they think it's cool or agree it is the most effective route.

That said this discussion is at an impasse as you are adding new elements to push it beyond the original confines of game design concerning the fairness of the base loot reward systems and how players can maximize it to their benefit.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

I was mostly talking about variety and how much freedom we can approach the game mode not "fairness". I all know the game is all about information.

Devs are playing a big role in the meta since they are the one who created the game and who can change it. If only frame they want to see is chroma. They sure archive the goal but i highly doubt that.

Edited June 3, 2020 by BRZZAFK

[Acersecomic]

On 2020-06-01 at 11:08 AM, Haukaido said:

It is a fact that chroma is the easiest frame to use against PT. u just stand still and shoot the big spider until it dies.

PT problem though... it does such massive amounts of damage to frames that the only fun way to go about fighting PT is with immortal frames that stand still and shoot.

[taiiat]

by your logic you should also be required to play this content Solo only because having 4 Players also makes the encounter totally trivial and semi-AFK.