Chroma VS PT is unfair

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

by your logic you should also be required to play this content Solo only because having 4 Players also makes the encounter totally trivial and semi-AFK.

Or they could rework content in a balanced manner 

[taiiat]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Or they could rework content in a balanced manner 

i'd rather it stay as is because there's about a 90% probability that if they 'improved' the encounter that they'd just make it a Timer and we stand around doing nothing until said Timer says we are allowed to continue.

[Magus_Tahir]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Or they could rework content in a balanced manner 

DE adjusts aspects of the game to fit within an accepted range not to balance the game. As I have refrenced before in previous posts DE and a large portion of the players in this forum are using two completely different interpretations of the word balance. They are going for imbalanced happy medium.

This isent Dota, LoL, or an MMO like WoW where "Balance in the traditional sense needs to be tight. WF is not ment to be balanced. And they know it is not, Pablo has said as much quite directly infact.

The two metrics they using are Power Fantasy and Variety for items that can complete any given content, not the rewards for doing it this is a grind game after all. If players find a way to push things past the red line they have set internally against those two guiding principles then they make adjustments the Catchmoon being an example. 

The forums are a poor data sample and we would need to see the internal data and compare it aganist DE own metrics to have a clear picture.

This was a bit off topic, but I feel this is the crux of what rustles so many peoples jimmes. That being an unrealistic expectation.

P.s. No to no one in practicular, im not insulting the word variety. If you have an issue with how its used here in this context talk to Pablo about it. 😅

 

 

[Methanoid]

15 hours ago, Cerikus said:

This logic is backwards actually.. because there are frames that don't excel in anything means, we can dostroy another frame that excels at least in one gamemode? 

Btw Atlas has 1 and you can build him to dps and/or tank, his 3 augment can be used for farming. If you like his playstyle, he can easily do anything.
Chroma has only profit taker now. Imho he is pretty much garbage anywhere else. 😞

what you use atlas for you can use chroma to do the same thing, chroma was not made/built to be good at profit taker, its an unintended coincidence, the whole "its all he has" thing is just a sad excuse to want to keep a faceroll mechanic because reasons.

[Cerikus]

40 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

what you use atlas for you can use chroma to do the same thing, chroma was not made/built to be good at profit taker, its an unintended coincidence, the whole "its all he has" thing is just a sad excuse to want to keep a faceroll mechanic because reasons.

If you take the doublecredits mechanic, no one will use chroma anymore. You will just degrade him into the group of forgoten warframes. If you want to use logic that "what you use atlas for you can use chroma to do the same thing" then let me tell you, there are frames that can do PT just as quick or quicklier. The ONLY reason people are taking Chroma is his unique 4 mechanic. It indeed is all he has. Chroma players have suffered enough already.. 

Btw this whole discussion is derailed.

Either we are talking about variability. Then you can pick whatever you want for the mission. Who cares about 2x credits.
Or we are talking about rewards. Credits specifically. then just take chroma. Index has meta setup as well. Farming witch secura lecta, nekros and smeeta is meta too. WHO CARES? There will always be meta.

Either you want to enjoy and play the gamemode, then play it and pick whatever you want or you are in it for the money, then pick the best tool for the job.

You can't have it both ways.

Demanding nerfing something because you want to play as your favorite frame and also get the money is not how this game works. I am not seeing threads demanding nerfing Inaros because he's braindead easy, or Wisp because she's op as hell, or Octavia because she just breaks everything... (i could continue)

Why it's always threads demanding and discussing nerfing frames that are already "lying uslessly on the ground beaten almost to death."

Edited June 3, 2020 by Cerikus

[Watsof]

Chroma desperately needs a rework and Vex Armor has to go, change my mind.

It's a boring, passive, unimaginative and asinine ability that single-handedly wrecks any semblance of enemy balance in the past, present and future of Warframe.

Imagine this: you are a game dev at DE and are tasked with designing a new miniboss/raid boss/whatever. You know that players are free to assemble a team of 4 Chroma (even 1 would be enough, since Vex Armor for some reason also applies to allies, but many Chromas butcher their power range in favour of more strength) and give themselves a 700% damage buff. How tf do balance that?

Remember the Wolf? DE went and made him immune to everything but raw damage, on top of that they also gave him a metric ton of health, mainly because Chroma exists. Some Tenno were still able to burst him down sub 60 seconds, but whatever.

A damage buff that big is a disaster in terms of game design and balance and cripples the Dev team for future content.

Alas, Chroma has been in the game for too long and it would take some serious commitment from DE to face the incredible amount of backlash that would inevitably follow any kind of change to his 3. I have hope, but I know it will sadly never happen.

/rant

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

How is Chroma has only profit taker? He still is a better tank and better damage compare to Atlas . Is there anything Atlas 1 can do but melee cant? 

Honestly I'd take Atlas over Chroma in non-PT or non-Eidolon content. You can build Atlas all out as a tank, Chroma will have the upper hand regarding mitigation, around 5% more than Atlas, but he wont have near the health, nor does he have an on demand CC.

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

On 2020-06-01 at 5:19 AM, Haukaido said:

I think u overlooked why I think it's unfair.
u can get 500k credits per run using chroma
1m credits if u have a credit boost.

using another frame will only give u 125k credits.

Just because chroma is so badly designed it doesn't justify letting him strip the game out of content.
Chroma needs a rework.
a boss fight shouldn't be designed to work with just 1 frame in a game where u're supposed to switch frames like u switch guns.
Do u know how boring it is to play chroma and spam PT 4 or 5 times a day by just standing still and going BRRRRRRRRR?

I don't want that. I want to dodge and maneuver and make use of those PT mechanics. But rn there's no incentive for me to do so since I'm getting 3 times  or even 4 times less credits than chroma despite exerting more effort and arguably spending more time against the boss.

I can kill PT using Saryn in 10min
I can do it with octavia in 7min
with chroma it takes 5 minutes with minimum effort.
Yet the latter is the one that gives u more rewards. That's just bad game design.
 

Dude just because one Fran happened to accel at something doesn’t mean it needs to be reworked to not do so. Other wise we gotta need Saryn for having good cc gauss for being to fast and Mesa for being able to aim it everything zephyr for being able to block all projectiles and trinity for being to good at support. Certain frames are made to be good at certain  things so you can’t complain about that. 

[--K--Sharkfin]

On 2020-06-01 at 11:58 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yeah, IDK why DE always makes content to only just be completable by the best possible meta loadout. 

Why not just make 30 frames that look different but with same abilities and passive? I guess that would make all frames fair!

Edited June 3, 2020 by SHArK-FiN

[Peter]

Frost is unfair on defense missions.

Saryn, Equinox, Volt, Mesa is unfair vs high waves missions.

Trinity is unfair on supporting.

Inaros is unfair on Arbitrations.

Gauss and Grendel is unfair on speedruns.

Ivara is unfair on capture pets in fortuna.

And i can make a list for the entire day if you want.

 

So yes, everything is unfair, and you know why? every frame have your own features to work in the right place, Chroma is one of those frames, if you don't like it just don't use it.

The credit booster on chroma was the one of the most useless skills in years and only got utility on PT, if you don't like to get more credits just don't use it.

It is because of posts like yours that the game gets horrible, stop crying and use what you like but don't spoil the fun of others. Kiddo.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 hours ago, Magus_Tahir said:

DE adjusts aspects of the game to fit within an accepted range not to balance the game. As I have refrenced before in previous posts DE and a large portion of the players in this forum are using two completely different interpretations of the word balance. They are going for imbalanced happy medium.

This isent Dota, LoL, or an MMO like WoW where "Balance in the traditional sense needs to be tight. WF is not ment to be balanced. And they know it is not, Pablo has said as much quite directly infact.

The two metrics they using are Power Fantasy and Variety for items that can complete any given content, not the rewards for doing it this is a grind game after all. If players find a way to push things past the red line they have set internally against those two guiding principles then they make adjustments the Catchmoon being an example. 

The forums are a poor data sample and we would need to see the internal data and compare it aganist DE own metrics to have a clear picture.

This was a bit off topic, but I feel this is the crux of what rustles so many peoples jimmes. That being an unrealistic expectation.

P.s. No to no one in practicular, im not insulting the word variety. If you have an issue with how its used here in this context talk to Pablo about it. 😅

 

 

That logic is very flawed because denis trying to reach balance as of late 

also every game needs

balance in a way. 

[Magus_Tahir]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

That logic is very flawed because denis trying to reach balance as of late 

also every game needs

balance in a way. 

As I said the imbalanced happy medium. It aint perfect, but for Warframe its as good as its gonna get. That said instead of using bats to smack the game back into the happy zone harshly id rather see them prune it like a bonsai tree.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

5 minutes ago, Magus_Tahir said:

As I said the imbalanced happy medium. It aint perfect, but for Warframe its as good as its gonna get. That said instead of using bats to smack the game back into the happy zone harshly id rather see them prune it like a bonsai tree.

But they are trying to balance it not.... keep it an imbalanced happy medium like they have for years bro

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Why not just make 30 frames that look different but with same abilities and passive? I guess that would make all frames fair!

This is about DE always balancing bosses and events around the best frames for it. Not the other way around.

[Magus_Tahir]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But they are trying to balance it not.... keep it an imbalanced happy medium like they have for years bro

Its fine. Your not getting what I mean and thats alright. Peace.

[Zimzala]

IMO, regardless of the game-mechanical-balance argument, the OP is arguing for all players to earn rewards at some 'fair' level and to prevent anyone from using tools to gain more resources per hour than other players.

I have have seen this argument, like so may others, since Day 0 of GaaS games.

IMO, if you want some 'fair utopia' in a GaaS game, then you are looking in the wrong place.

The OP, IMO, is arguing for all players to earn an 'equal' amount of resources in the game to make things 'fair'.

The simple facts that one player can spend more time in the game to gain more resources and/or can sell a rare item to another player, throws out any and all arguments, IMO, that earning resources in-game can ever be 'equal' or 'fair'.

IMO, it's an argument that comes from a place of RL angst and envy and it has no place here.

I simply do not understand why some players want to make code changes that prevent other players from gaining more in-game resources than they have the time or energy to get themsleves.

[KosmicKerman]

I swear at least 50% of the posts on the forums are like this one. My preferred frame is not the best frame for one particular mission. Please nerf the meta frame or buff my preferred frame.

[Methanoid]

5 hours ago, Cerikus said:

If you take the doublecredits mechanic, no one will use chroma anymore. You will just degrade him into the group of forgoten warframes. If you want to use logic that "what you use atlas for you can use chroma to do the same thing" then let me tell you, there are frames that can do PT just as quick or quicklier. The ONLY reason people are taking Chroma is his unique 4 mechanic. It indeed is all he has. Chroma players have suffered enough already.. 

Btw this whole discussion is derailed.

Either we are talking about variability. Then you can pick whatever you want for the mission. Who cares about 2x credits.
Or we are talking about rewards. Credits specifically. then just take chroma. Index has meta setup as well. Farming witch secura lecta, nekros and smeeta is meta too. WHO CARES? There will always be meta.

Either you want to enjoy and play the gamemode, then play it and pick whatever you want or you are in it for the money, then pick the best tool for the job.

You can't have it both ways.

Demanding nerfing something because you want to play as your favorite frame and also get the money is not how this game works. I am not seeing threads demanding nerfing Inaros because he's braindead easy, or Wisp because she's op as hell, or Octavia because she just breaks everything... (i could continue)

Why it's always threads demanding and discussing nerfing frames that are already "lying uslessly on the ground beaten almost to death."

do people even use chroma for his "credits" thing, last i checked his credit buff only worked if his effigy actually landed a killing blow otherwise the credit boost does exactly nothing?

[Educated_Beast]

This thread is a waste if electrons.  Most players cannot solo PT in 5 min with any frame.  With a good 4-player squad, yes, but good luck finding that in a pub match and good luck recruiting, you will be waiting awhile (unless it's nightwave week).  

This is the only place where chromas damage buff is useful because there is plenty of damage to keep it maxed out.   Chroma only brings damage to the table but he does not trivialize the fight, and he is expensive to forma up to get him to that point.  

If your so concerned about credits and your so elite to do it in 5 mins, run it twice with your favorite frame.  

If you want to get a rework on chroma, fine, he needs it, but don't go calling for a nerf.  Man I don't understand this community. . 

[Woolytop]

So... chroma has a special thing that increases his credit drops and OP is mad about it. See, OP, what you're doing here is trying to optimize the fun out of your experience. Look me in the eyes and tell me; do you really need those extra credits so badly that you're willing to drag down your experience for them? And if other players who happen to enjoy playing chroma are getting a little extra due to a unique and flavorful thing that Chroma does, why does it matter to you?

That said, Chroma really needs a rework. Vex armor is his only skill that isn't garbage, but it's so obscenely broken that it makes him meta in most big fights anyway; and it doesn't even use his color gimmick!

[Cerikus]

55 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

do people even use chroma for his "credits" thing, last i checked his credit buff only worked if his effigy actually landed a killing blow otherwise the credit boost does exactly nothing?

The effigy does not have to land a killing blow, all you need is to have it active at a correct spot when the credits spawn, then if pick them up, it's double.
You can pretty much nail the correct possition every time, once you learn where it is.

[PookieNumnums]

U still gotta hit it with the right elements and you dont need a chroma to kill its legs. 

 

My velocitus one shots them easy enough. 

[PookieNumnums]

53 minutes ago, Woolytop said:

So... chroma has a special thing that increases his credit drops and OP is mad about it. See, OP, what you're doing here is trying to optimize the fun out of your experience. Look me in the eyes and tell me; do you really need those extra credits so badly that you're willing to drag down your experience for them? And if other players who happen to enjoy playing chroma are getting a little extra due to a unique and flavorful thing that Chroma does, why does it matter to you?

That said, Chroma really needs a rework. Vex armor is his only skill that isn't garbage, but it's so obscenely broken that it makes him meta in most big fights anyway; and it doesn't even use his color gimmick!

Eclipse mirage aug buffed by nidus is more broken. With chroma involved its even more brokedified. 

But, imo, thats whats great about wf. If you wanna be OP you can. 

[BRZZAFK]

11小时前 , SneakyErvin 说:

Honestly I'd take Atlas over Chroma in non-PT or non-Eidolon content. You can build Atlas all out as a tank, Chroma will have the upper hand regarding mitigation, around 5% more than Atlas, but he wont have near the health, nor does he have an on demand CC.

Well. If we are talking about solo you can run anything .But Chroma 3 make him good at playing with teammate. He has a role in SS event buffing mesa recently.

[Methanoid]

11 hours ago, Cerikus said:

The effigy does not have to land a killing blow, all you need is to have it active at a correct spot when the credits spawn, then if pick them up, it's double.
You can pretty much nail the correct possition every time, once you learn where it is.

Enemies killed by the sentry have a 15% / 30% / 45% / 60% chance to drop additional credits.

• All Credits that drop within 10 meters of the sentry yield 25% / 50% / 75% / 100% additional credits.
  • The range is not affected by mods.
• Technically increases credits income by 3.75% / 15% / 33.75% / 60% while the Sentry is active.
• Credit chance and credit bonus are not affected by Ability Strength.

^ Wiki entry out of date then or mix and match of correct/incorrect?