Digital Extremes Statement + Livestreams

[Fionntan]

46 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Obviously all lives matter, but it's black lives that are having their throats kneed to suffocation, so nobody start clowning in the thread please. Justice for everyone. Some groups just need it a little more urgently. Even as a privileged white guy, I find it concerning on a personal level when justice isn't being meted out as it should be.

DE has the right, as a company, to make whatever statements they want. This shouldn't be a controversial one.

Black Lives Matter. End of story.

My thoughts exactly. 

That said thank you for the heads up Rebecca! Stay safe, stronge and healthy team DE. ^_^

[Zahnny]

I'm also in agreement with @Voltage this doesn't quite feel like the right place for this and I do respect your right to do this I have concerns that as a company with such a large following this could be taken in the sense of supporting the backlash going on in America.

I too feel a great misjustice has been made but I'm concerned that the reaction might far exceed justification. Again I fully believe DE is in their right to make this statement. it's just that I don't want anyone to start losing their heads over this...both metaphorical and literally...

Stay safe Tenno. The world is a scary place but please try to be above it on both sides.

[Hello]

30 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yup  - lots of concerns surrounding Partner conduct, and that is something we are intending to address with the larger program changes that we mentioned earlier this year.

Here's to hoping the whole protection of friends mentality is put aside and the toxic partners bringing down the game are removed. Time to hold partners to the same standards it takes to become a partner. Mainly: 

Quote

YOUR CHANNEL(S) CANNOT: Contain illegal, racist, sexist, hateful, pornographic or other offensive material.

Also hoping this does something for all of the partners that don't even stream or upload anymore. This is apparent when you look at glyphs and half of them don't stream or anything. They shouldn't enjoy the day one benefits and get everything free for the past months of ignoring the game. If I knew I could've became a partner then never upload another video, I would have done that.

Logging into the game every 3-9 months shows they're not "passionate" about Warframe. Streaming every day, but not streaming Warframe for months (except when they get hosted by Warframe then they ignore the game again), doesn't show how "passionate" they are about the community.

Quote

Create consistent, long-term Warframe content. Whether you make a video with every big update, or choose to stream multiple times a week, or anything in between, we’re looking for dedicated creators who are passionate about Warframe and its community.

 

Hopefully the stuff you're looking into also has the forum moderators included. (I'll screenshot this post to make sure they don't remove any mention of themselves like normal).

[Arkennstar]

As noble and good this message and sentiment is, I would hope DE does not drag political matters into their games. Many studios have done this same mistake. Many of us play games to escape the darkness of the real world and for a little while exist in a place far away from it. Its the reason political issues and debates are banned from forums and chat. Dragging it here does not do anything. The ones who heed it already did anyways and those who didn't aren't going to be swayed by a game studio's words.

[ALCHElVlY]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

There will be no Homestreams this week from the community team, and we will be spending our normal broadcast times solidifying our plans for improvements towards the problems within our game mentioned recently by our community (namely Region chat and the role it plays).

We are world makers - and we should do more to make both our virtual world or real world welcoming. While our job is to build an escape, we must also focus on paying attention to the world as justice is demanded for black lives. And we must listen and learn how to do better.

This is just 1 reason why I like DE as a company. #Respect

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, Necro17 said:

Imagine telling DE what they should and shouldn't use THEIR platform for.
If you don't like it just move on, there's absolutely no reason to whine about it.

[Necro17]

11 minutes ago, Voltage said:

No matter how you look at it, agree with them or not.. Hypocritical or not.. It is still their platform. It's not like what they said isn't affecting the livestreams, they simply gave an update stating that they would not do livestreams this week and then they said why.

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

I understand the point of the statement within the Tweet and all that, but shouldn't we keep these sorts of things off the Warframe Forums?

Twitter can be used for that...

EDIT: I just want to make abundantly clear that I am in no way trying to challenge the message of this post. All lives do matter.

However, I just cannot, and will not support this sort of discussion within the Warframe Forums, even if it is coming from Digital Extremes. This is a Forum for gaming Warframe either solo or with your buddies. Updating the community that streams are cancelled due to "unforeseen world events and tackling internal community handling" would have perfectly sufficed.

From the Warframe Forums Guidelines:

This content is undeniably irrelevant and inappropriate for the Warframe Forums. I am all for spreading a positive message of excellence to one another, but this thread just should not exist.

The BLM I get but does it really matter they give us the real reason they cancel warframe community streams? its not like they promoting a political candidate which is actually a rule.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I agree with Voltage, but let's also not forget the second part of Reb's post. Change is coming to the partner program and region chat, which a fellow forum user put nicely:

35 minutes ago, --Brandt-- said:

Here's to hoping the whole protection of friends mentality is put aside and the toxic partners bringing down the game are removed. Time to hold partners to the same standards it takes to become a partner. Mainly: 

Also hoping this does something for all of the partners that don't even stream or upload anymore. This is apparent when you look at glyphs and half of them don't stream or anything. They shouldn't enjoy the day one benefits and get everything free for the past months of ignoring the game. If I knew I could've became a partner then never upload another video, I would have done that.

Logging into the game every 3-9 months shows they're not "passionate" about Warframe. Streaming every day, but not streaming Warframe for months (except when they get hosted by Warframe then they ignore the game again), doesn't show how "passionate" they are about the community.

Hopefully the stuff you're looking into also has the forum moderators included. (I'll screenshot this post to make sure they don't remove any mention of themselves like normal).

We need to keep DE honest on this. 

[Captain_Rocket505]

52 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

 

I fully agree with Voltage. Police brutality has nothing to do with Warframe. People die all over the world everyday from injustice, and only now Digital Extremes comes out with a statement?  You guys deff gonna loose some players and fans over this one. This is what Twitter is for.. 

#LivesMatter

I agree for the most part. As DE says, games are for escaping the world. I personally don't really see the need for discussing it on a game forum. I get that not acknowledging it is sort of pushing it aside but I want to raise the question of this: in a game forum meant for the game, why are we discussing a real life event? Please note that I said discussing, not acknowledging it. I truly believe that DE is right to make a statement about this, but I don't fully agree with how they posted it. I think it should have been on another platform meant for different post like twiter. Just my two cents in more detail.

[PookieNumnums]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

I understand the point of the statement within the Tweet and all that, but shouldn't we keep these sorts of things off the Warframe Forums?

Twitter can be used for that...

EDIT: I just want to make abundantly clear that I am in no way trying to challenge the message of this post. All lives do matter.

However, I just cannot, and will not support this sort of discussion within the Warframe Forums, even if it is coming from Digital Extremes. This is a Forum for gaming Warframe either solo or with your buddies. Updating the community that streams are cancelled due to "unforeseen world events and tackling internal community handling" would have perfectly sufficed.

From the Warframe Forums Guidelines:

This content is undeniably irrelevant and inappropriate for the Warframe Forums. I am all for spreading a positive message of excellence to one another, but this thread just should not exist.

I whole heartedly agree with this. Also. There have been so many lives lost due to racism not to mention other injustices to humanity as a whole and no one says anything about it. 

People want to identify as a "good person" with "values" during times of select tragedy but feign ignorance of so many other terrible things it seems ridiculous. 

Why arent people standing up for the millions of under payed workers in north america and other continents? Why arent we screaming about all the homeless starving children. What about the thousands and thousands of human trafficking cases, new ones, every year in the states alone? 

If i want to get involved with the current tragedies there are any number of media platforms with which to do that. I would really rather prefer it not bleed into my recreational activities. 

 

[(XBOX)Chuckle Voodoos]

I am disgusted by people trying to undercut this message or dilute it with their all lives matter nonsense. DE has a platform and they are using it - any and all attempts to tell them to keep quiet or keep it away from them is a clear statement that you don't care and don't want to know.  Respect DE, I respect this and encourage you to pin this, delete those responses and lock this thread ASAP so you aren't letting these folks complain about standing up for the folks that need our help and attention.

[AlanThicc]

The handwringing about whether or not this is appropriate for the forum is just disgusting. That level of pedantic concern is such absolute bullS#&$.  Gamers truly are the worst people.

 

Good on you, DE. Must be a shame to have to cater to such a large group of unsympathetic creeps. 

 

wE muSt pRoTEct tHe fOrUmS!

[(NSW)albadicentra]

The reason why no streams were happening this week was not irrelevant information? It was relevant to live streams, this is a post about the live-streams in a channel about live-streams. They made a public statement on Twitter that they chose not to be silent in today’s climate. 
 

“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.“

-Desmond Tutu

 

all lives don’t matter until black lives matter

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

4 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

I whole heartedly agree with this. Also. There have been so many lives lost due to racism not to mention other injustices to humanity as a whole and no one says anything about it. 

People want to identify as a "good person" with "values" during times of select tragedy but feign ignorance of so many other terrible things it seems ridiculous. 

Why arent people standing up for the millions of under payed workers in north america and other continents? Why arent we screaming about all the homeless starving children. What about the thousands and thousands of human trafficking cases, new ones, every year in the states alone? 

If i want to get involved with the current tragedies there are any number of media platforms with which to do that. I would really rather prefer it not bleed into my recreational activities. 

 

I dont understand how they announcing that BLM makes them want to cancel home streams in the forums stop you from playing the game. Also yes there are many tragedies in life but some times people do not care till it is in the limelight. its a Sad truth and Ill agree with you there but for this just take the message streams are canceled and play the game.

I get sometimes you NEED to control what you read and people say but sometimes its better to just move on and not take things so personally that you come onto the optional forums and need to go around saying "How Dare DE have Opinions as a video game company and use their forums to mention streams are canceled cuz of X reason".

So its a movement against racism but what makes that different from other reasons? Oh its a topic you wanted to ignore cause of the controversial respond ppl are having well just ignore their tweets and forum topics then.

[Finlaena]

Thank you, DE. I hope whatever changes come for region chat and the Partner program will help lessen the toxicity present in those places, especially during these turbulent times and in the months sure to come.

[Necro17]

Quote

2) QUALITY STANDARDS – Use our forums to talk to us and talk to each other in a constructive and respectful way that encourages interaction and thoughtful discussion. Stay on-topic, be constructive and use descriptive Topic titles. Don’t rage/rant post, name and shame, have misleading topic titles, post spam, advertisements, unreleased Design Council information, pornography or any other inappropriate, offensive or irrelevant content to the Forums in text, image, or video form. We will delete/edit it, and there will be consequences as per our warnings.

1. The post is respectful.
2. It stayed on topic, it stated that there will be no livestreams this week and why.
3. Topic title not misleading, it was their statement about their livestreams.
4. It is not a rage/rant, did not shame anyone, spam or advertise.
5. It's definitely not porn or inappropriate, simply their relevant post and their reason for posting.
6. It is not irrelevant to their livestream or game as it directly affects both.

There's not a single rule here that's broken, y'all just dumb. There isn't even a "no politics" rule.... its just an "irrelevant content" rule and as this movement and their beliefs/post directly affect the content, it is in fact not irrelevant.

[Amontadillo]

thanks DE. i am eager to hear the specifics of what you're doing. it's an important announcement. good job. 👍

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

As everyone can see the original post might be ontopic and fine but some of these responses are slowly inching towards failing the quality standards.

Now all we really need is actual flamers to come in and start triggering everyone. /s

[shut]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Chuckle Voodoos said:

I am disgusted by people trying to undercut this message or dilute it with their all lives matter nonsense. DE has a platform and they are using it - any and all attempts to tell them to keep quiet or keep it away from them is a clear statement that you don't care and don't want to know.  Respect DE, I respect this and encourage you to pin this, delete those responses and lock this thread ASAP so you aren't letting these folks complain about standing up for the folks that need our help and attention.

 

1 hour ago, AlanThicc said:

The handwringing about whether or not this is appropriate for the forum is just disgusting. That level of pedantic concern is such absolute bullS#&$.  Gamers truly are the worst people.

Good on you, DE. Must be a shame to have to cater to such a large group of unsympathetic creeps. 

Amen. The amount of "all lives matter!" / "BLM is racist because it largely focuses on black people!" junk that has filled up this thread is frankly nauseating.

People like the ones dominating this thread are why the #BlackLivesMatter movement is necessary in the first place.
People who play the card of caring about all lives equally, while simultaneously trying to quash/derail any conversation about the continued mistreatment of black Americans by ignorant/hateful people in positions of power.
People who claim to not be racist, yet become eerily upset with DE expressing support for victims of racial violence.

Y'all are disappointing. Be better.

 

Relevant quote that may be worth reading:

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

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EDIT: Just to clarify-- I totally understand that most of us (regardless of political views) want to keep politics out of our video games. The topic of racists in power targeting minorities is something that everyone (especially Americans) should be discussing right about now, but I get if we don't want to think about these realities while playing video games.

That being said:

• You (the people filling this thread with #alllivesmatter and such) are in the News section of a forum. This is literally not in the video game.
• You are literally engaging in the topic rather than just avoiding it like you say you want to.
• People are dying for no reason other than the colour of their skin. As @(PS4)reddragonhrcro said before the thread was cleaned, this is a human rights issue, not a political one.
  If you do think that "people shouldn't get murdered for having a skin colour" is a political message, and if by some tragedy you disagree with this message, then now is probably a good time for some self-reflection.

[Necro17]

1 minute ago, Melanholic7 said:

“While our job is to build an escape, we must also focus on paying attention to the world as justice is demanded for black lives. #BlackLivesMatter “

^ this is irrelevant. Its not a game-connected topic, why its there?? 

It is 100% game-connected. The game is directly affected by their actions and the things they're focusing on. She went further into detail as to why there will be no livestreams this week and that what is happening in the world will affect the game. There will be no streams, and there will be no stream rewards.

[Letter13]

Thread cleaned some.

There's nothing political about speaking out against injustices & civil/human rights violations. It's simply the right thing to do.

If you're so against DE and their employees voicing their support for equal rights and equal justice, perhaps some reevaluation of what you support is in order.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Thread cleaned some.

There's nothing political about speaking out against injustices & civil/human rights violations. It's simply the right thing to do.

If you're so against DE and their employees voicing their support for equal rights and equal justice, perhaps some reevaluation of what you support is in order.

So speaking out about injustices is relevant in a video game forum? Got it. (Screen shot)

What about all the other injustices in the world Digital Extremes? That doesn't matter because they weren't black? I see.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Necro17 said:

1. The post is respectful.
2. It stayed on topic, it stated that there will be no livestreams this week and why.
3. Topic title not misleading, it was their statement about their livestreams.
4. It is not a rage/rant, did not shame anyone, spam or advertise.
5. It's definitely not porn or inappropriate, simply their relevant post and their reason for posting.
6. It is not irrelevant to their livestream or game as it directly affects both.

There's not a single rule here that's broken, y'all just dumb. There isn't even a "no politics" rule.... its just an "irrelevant content" rule and as this movement and their beliefs/post directly affect the content, it is in fact not irrelevant.

Directly from the Terms of Service 100% of people here agreed to when making a Warframe Account:

Quote

You agree not to post, upload to, transmit, distribute, store, create or otherwise publish through the Website any of the following:

[...]

Unsolicited promotions, political campaigning, advertising or solicitations; [...]

The concept of this thread is not political campainging, but the usage sort of is...

Also, directly from [DE]Bear literally a few weeks ago in another thread:

Quote

With that said, I would like to clarify that moderation is very contextual. Politics and Religious discussion in chat very, very rarely comes from a place of meaningful discussion, and often these discussions break down quickly.

Source

So sure, you can bend the vague Forums rules in your favor, but I am just expressing common sense that even [DE]Rebecca mentions in her own OP:

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

While our job is to build an escape [...]

This is a video game forum. Twitter, Facebook, and dozens of other outlets are available to express these concerns. Please do not include the Warframe Forums as an outlet for this topic. This thread is irrelevant and there are already pages of nonconstructive posts. I do hope it gets locked which would further prove many players point as well as my own.

1 hour ago, Letter13 said:

Thread cleaned some.

There's nothing political about speaking out against injustices & civil/human rights violations. It's simply the right thing to do.

This is most definitely a political topic that does not belong on the Forums. Please do not pretend this topic wouldn't be insta-locked or outright deleted if it weren't for [DE]Rebecca posting it. You already had to clean the thread of more than 50% of the pages. That already shows how unnecessary this post is for the Warframe Forums as opposed to a better-suited media outlet. I've seen multiple threads locked and removed over the last 5 years for housing similar discussion for good reason. These Forums exist mainly for Warframe players to you know, talk about gaming Warframe. 

There is no way you can say this post has merit here on the Warframe forums. 

[Letter13]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

So speaking out about injustices is relevant in a video game forum? Got it. (Screen shot)

Believe it or not, but real world issues do affect the digital and in-game world. Opting to bury your head in the sand and sing 'Lalalala' doesn't make it magically go away.

... I mean you could certainly do that if you really wanted to. Simply leave the thread. Pretend it doesn't exist. You don't have to read it or DE's support for equal justice and equal rights if you don't want to.

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

This is most definitely a political topic that does not belong on the Forums.

Desiring equal rights and equal justice is not political. This is 2020. Not the 1860s.