Digital Extremes Statement + Livestreams

[RivaAurelius]

I would like to remind everyone, no matter where you stand on this issue, that nothing is above criticism and people are allowed to ask questions. People are allowed to have different opions to eachother. Dismissing people's opinions, or even just people, based on generalisations or blanket statements is unproductive and will not lead to progress. Extend an olive branch to people, respect eachother, and be excellent to one another. Thank you. 

[Phatose]

9 hours ago, -dicht.Akemi- said:

Yup, my comment was about that BLM is (apparently) both a slogan and an org. I think an org wanting to fight injustice that happens to one race is fine, I also think a company wanting to support it is fine. I support BLM from the standpoint that I do not want anyone to face injustice, my race or otherwise. However, if BLM ever goes to a black supremacy (which I do not think they have) then I will not support them.

 

I do not want to see political stuff on forums as I do not like hypocrisy or selective censorship, allowing BLM support (which is political) but disallowing All Lives Matter, is in itself either hypocrisy (if DE does not want any politics on the forums) or censorship (as they are removing anything DE does not agree with). I would rather see none of it on warframe forums. If DE made a post on their official website (that isn't warframe) or on their twitter I would have no complaints.

I'm inclined to believe you have a mistaken belief that "non-political stuff" is an actual thing.  As far as I can tell, it isn't - whether or not something is political is ultimately purely subjective.  There is no such thing as a statement that isn't political to someone.  I've seen political movements against violence in video gaming - as such, any discussion of Warframe at all can be considered political speech.

[Anaktoria]

Thanks Reb and staff, this message is much appreciated. Good on you guys for taking this stand.

[PainTako]

Just now, Phatose said:

I'm inclined to believe you have a mistaken belief that "non-political stuff" is an actual thing.  As far as I can tell, it isn't - whether or not something is political is ultimately purely subjective.  There is no such thing as a statement that isn't political to someone.  I've seen political movements against violence in video gaming - as such, any discussion of Warframe at all can be considered political speech.

Technically, you are correct. But, I do not agree. Just like how you can debate on what is good or evil, but then also twist the conversation into perspective that if someone believes what they're doing is right, then to them they are the good guys. It's a very interesting discussion and can make for some great stories.

Although, I believe most people can distinguish something being inherently political, such as who they're going to vote for, what party they are apart of, or what orgs they support. As opposed to going into semantics and diving into the rabbit hole to show that almost anything can be political.

[Helminth]

11 minutes ago, Crevab said:

You're not "that guy" LeBlingKing,  it's been mentioned before.  The All Lives Matter people just ignore it because it contradicts their desire to be victims

Many people have already respond to this bringing up the double standard and it gets ignored and the same point is just repeatedly brought up so its happening both ways.

[shut]

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

I'm sorry, I really am. But please don't quote MLK in bad faith. Martin Luthor King didn't want anything to be about race.

  LOOOOOOOOL

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

When you quote MLK and begin putting the difference OF race into a discussion or argument you are going against his teachings. Most importantly MLK wanted there to be peaceful protests.

Ah yes. The "whitewashed" version of MLK that's apparently taught in some American schools. The one who apparently never discussed race. The one who wanted black people to just sit there and wait for their oppressors to change their minds. The one who would never have said something like this:

I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.

- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[shut]

1 hour ago, Crevab said:

You're not "that guy" LeBlingKing,  it's been mentioned before.  The All Lives Matter people just ignore it because it contradicts their desire to be victims

Yep.

Black people are literally being murdered in the street and in their homes by police, and after centuries of continued oppression, some Americans are finally warming up to this revolutionary new idea that Black lives do, indeed, matter.
... Which, if you'll believe 90% of posters in this thread, is somehow discriminatory against white people and other ethnicities? Yeesh.

[Hypernaut1]

I think it's telling that standing up against injustice is considered "political" for some. 

 

Like really, since when is justice a "side"?? 

[Duduminador]

Thanks for the news and heads up Rebecca and Team.
It's the Livestreams schedule after all. Of course any news or changes about the schedule should be posted here.

[(PSN)AotoSatou14]

2 hours ago, Crevab said:

You're not "that guy" LeBlingKing,  it's been mentioned before.  The All Lives Matter people just ignore it because it contradicts their desire to be victims

I want to say this because I've never seen someone bring up this point. While they are certainly those who use the AllLivesMatter for solo purpose of obstructing the topic, it's not the case for everyone.

In countries where you won't find black people (or at least not easily) there are still minority groups that still face the level of hate and problems that black people do due to ethnic or religious reasons. It's meant as a support for everyone who is facing injustice and don't have as much support as black people do. Everyone in my country with minimal literacy and access to the internet(or at least 99% who fill these requirements) know about the rasicm against black. But can I say the same about Americans knowing about the persecuted minorities in my country?

[Semper_Occultus]

Welp, someone deleted my post about 6 hours ago. Thanks for the shadow post moderations! Thankfully you don't have the guts to remove Voltage's posts so at least you know how the community ACTUALLY feels.

This is what happens when you invite social and political discussion to a video game forum; five pages of both sides ree'ing their heads off because they're right and you're wrong.

Waste of time and solves nothing, only divides people further.

[Zantum]

Please do not get involved in the political field, DE. If I wished to argue race vs cops, the absurdity or need of blm, or general bullspit that goes on within the world, I would go listen to my friends b*tch about it, or watch the news. I don't play Warframe for any of that. I play Warframe to turn my brain off and murder internet pixels to try and forget that the world is on fire outside. What you do, what you say on your own time, is your prerogative. But do not think some of us will just put up with it, should you begin pushing your ideals within our own escapes. If you want to use race or politics, gender what have you, to craft a compelling story then by all means please go for it. Go as far as to tell a story that reflects the meta of real life in abstract ways if you like. But please, please Digital Extremes, do not bring us along for your political aspirations. 

[.durandle.]

5 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I'm also in agreement with @Voltage this doesn't quite feel like the right place for this and I do respect your right to do this I have concerns that as a company with such a large following this could be taken in the sense of supporting the backlash going on in America.

I too feel a great misjustice has been made but I'm concerned that the reaction might far exceed justification. Again I fully believe DE is in their right to make this statement. it's just that I don't want anyone to start losing their heads over this...both metaphorical and literally...

Stay safe Tenno. The world is a scary place but please try to be above it on both sides.

i think it is fine for it to be on the forums but probably should have been put in the Announcements & Events rather than in Livestreams & Contests

though this is DE's platform and they can use it as they see fit, but keeping things in the correct category is always a good practice

[RivaAurelius]

3 minutes ago, Semper_Occultus said:

Welp, someone deleted my post about 6 hours ago. Thanks for the shadow post moderations! Thankfully you don't have the guts to remove Voltage's posts so at least you know how the community ACTUALLY feels.

This is what happens when you invite social and political discussion to a video game forum; five pages of both sides ree'ing their heads off because they're right and you're wrong.

Waste of time and solves nothing, only divides people further.

It's sad that at a time like this, where people need to come together, things like this drive us apart. Conversation that should be about finding our common ground and how to acheive the greater good, devolves into bickering by people who want to be right. My experience of this community from when I joined the game five years ago has been a very positive experience. I have met so many wonderful people in this game. I KNOW that 99.9% of us here want to see a better world, and that we likely have the same vision when it comes to a better world, but that the disagreement comes from trying to find the path that will take us there. Don't be so quick to dismiss someone who thinks differently to you, or who asks questions. Listen to new ideas, be kind to eachother, and I said it before, but please remember to be excellent to one another. Thank you. 

[(PSN)Deeceem]

DE likes to play with fire, eh? I'm not sure if it is the smartest move to start dabbling in politics (ask some other publishers and developers how that went) after the past year and how much goodwill you lost. But hey, as long as you don't have anything going on that proves some sort of hypocrisy like Disney or Blizzard quickly forgetting their noble virtues when it comes to the Chinese market profits you should be good, I guess. Do you have a Chinese Twitter account and posted this there too by the way? Police brutality, racism, injustices, violations of civil/human rights and oppression are topics that should get attention and talked about globally and not just in the West even if it isn't popular nor beneficial to you as a company in certain regions of the world, don't you agree?

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." after all, to borrow a quote from earlier in this thread.

I'll do this now:

Followed by this:

[Cannamancer]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

I understand the point of the statement within the Tweet and all that, but shouldn't we keep these sorts of things off the Warframe Forums?

Twitter can be used for that...

EDIT: I just want to make abundantly clear that I am in no way trying to challenge the message of this post. All lives do matter.

However, I just cannot, and will not support this sort of discussion within the Warframe Forums, even if it is coming from Digital Extremes. This is a Forum for gaming Warframe either solo or with your buddies. Updating the community that streams are cancelled due to "unforeseen world events and tackling internal community handling" would have perfectly sufficed.

From the Warframe Forums Guidelines:

This content is undeniably irrelevant and inappropriate for the Warframe Forums. I am all for spreading a positive message of excellence to one another, but this thread just should not exist.

No suprise that the most toxic player in Warframe history has something else ignorant to say. *yawn*

[Kamachi]

Ah yes, another company jumping on the bandwagon. Whilst there are certainly issues in America right now and I wish them the best of luck resolving those issues, hopefully peacefully. When did DE become a political mouthpiece?

Are you going to be giving out statements regarding any and all injustices throughout the world on an ongoing basis? Or just the ones that are currently trending? As to make yourselves more popular among the masses. I fail to see any mention from yourselves on the current situation in Hong Kong, perhaps because you're for the most part owned by a Chinese company and rely on the Chinese market for some of your income. Hypocrisy at it's finest. 

TL:DR "We as a company are against this particular injustice as it won't affect our bottom line negatively." 

[Stalc]

Did hong kong protesters had this much solidarity when they needed it against their oppressors or was the money that good?

[Chroia]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are world makers - and we should do more to make both our virtual world or real world welcoming. While our job is to build an escape, we must also focus on paying attention to the world as justice is demanded for black lives. And we must listen and learn how to do better.

Don't get me wrong: All people should be treated humanely, as people.
No one deserves to be killed by the police when they're not a clear and imminent threat.
Black lives matter, same as every other life.
Unjustly killed black people deserve justice, same as every other unjustly killed person.

That said.
I'm somewhat out of the loop on this topic, but didn't it happen like 50 hours ago?
A) How certain are you that all the relevant information is out, and that this was explicitly a racial action?
Are you certain enough that you'll risk making it about race if it isn't, which loses George Floyd the man and turns him into 'another black man killed by police'?
B) How, exactly, is DE responsible for a black man dying while in police custody... in Minnesota?
Unless we assume that any and all of the people directly involved were players of your game... what bearing does anything  you do, or have ever done, have on this case?

[RamonLLLL]

22 minutes ago, Stalc said:

Did hong kong protesters had this much solidarity when they needed it against their oppressors or was the money that good?

Isn't Leyou a Hong Kong company or have people's IQ suddenly vaporized?

[Chroia]

On 2020-06-02 at 4:01 AM, HolySeraphin said:

People: I don't want social discussions like racism on "my" game. (which isn't theirs, but Digital Extremes's)

Also people: Why DE is only talking about this now? They have double standards. They should give attention to every race and group whenever and whatever happens to them. So they need to cover the chinese, the white people being killed, etc, etc.

Talk about double standards (facepalms)

More like:

People: DE doesn't allow political discussions on their forums. Alright then.

DE: *Officially makes a political statement*

People:Oh really now. If you're genuine, where's the consistency? And either way, why aren't you upholding your own rules?

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor einer Stunde schrieb RamonLeeYJ:

Isn't Leyou a Hong Kong company or have people's IQ suddenly vaporized?

It is, but Warframe is on the Chinese market which is at odds with Hong Kong. It makes it even worse because you'd think DE surely would have had something to say about Hong Kong even more in the Chinese speaking area to stand up for human rights over there considering the ties they must have there and people literally disappeared over there. They didn't though because Chinese politics are different so they behave differently to stay on the safe side to not lose profits. Which is said hypocrisy or double standars regarding a very similar issue in two different areas of the world. Stay silent on the issue in one region if it hurts you and speak out on it if it panders to the masses in a different region.

Either you are for promoting human rights everywhere or nowhere. You don't get to choose to be all for it, against it or impartial based on the population and government you interact with. Unless you're a company then you get to choose apparently.

Boy, I'll be happy if Cyberpunk 2077 is out.

[Chroia]

3 hours ago, Phatose said:

The obvious reason is that there's a perception injustice for that one particular demographic is actually occurring at rates above the average for all demographics.  If I'm walking down the street with a sign that says "Stop doing X!", the rational explanation is that I believe X is happening.

Erm.

1) Perception isn't necessarily aligned with reality.
As such, this isn't a safe assumption to make.

1b) The fact that something was promoted to your attention doesn't automatically mean it's commonplace.
Case in point: Over the last ~5 years, a dozen houses on my street have been bought by families belonging a religious sub-sect. (I believe this is the correct term.)
100% of the people of that sect I'm aware of belong to the sub-sect, which might lead me to assume that this sub-sect is the majority of the sect. In actuality, this sub-sect is a tiny fraction of the entire sect.

2) In your example, the rational explanation is that someone put up the sign.
If you walk down the street and see a sign that says "Stop putting mind-controlling chemicals in our drinking water", the rational explanation is not that someone is putting mind-controlling chemicals in the drinking water.

[(XBOX)Eye of Jirachi]

Literally no one complained when DE helped with save the children, local food banks, Australian forest fires, and numerous other real world problems. I see this as an equally pressing issue. They notify us every time. 

It's so weird to see so many people come out against THIS issue.

#blacklivesmatter

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Eye of Jirachi:

Literally no one complained when DE helped with save the children, local food banks, Australian forest fires, and numerous other real world problems. I see this as an equally pressing issue. They notify us every time. 

It's so weird to see so many people come out against THIS issue.

#blacklivesmatter

None of them were political. Nor did DE take a political stance on them by using hashtags of political activist groups There you go. That's the difference. I'm getting annoyed. Time to push this button...