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[DE]Rebecca

Digital Extremes Statement + Livestreams

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Literally no one complained when DE helped with save the children, local food banks, Australian forest fires, and numerous other real world problems. I see this as an equally pressing issue. They notify us every time. 

It's so weird to see so many people come out against THIS issue.

#blacklivesmatter

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Posted (edited)
vor 4 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Eye of Jirachi:

Literally no one complained when DE helped with save the children, local food banks, Australian forest fires, and numerous other real world problems. I see this as an equally pressing issue. They notify us every time. 

It's so weird to see so many people come out against THIS issue.

#blacklivesmatter

None of them were political. Nor did DE take a political stance on them by using hashtags of political activist groups There you go. That's the difference. I'm getting annoyed. Time to push this button...

training bail out GIF

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
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1) Sorry to hear the streams are cancelled.

2) Glad to hear there will be an effort to clean up region chat.  Not sure exactly why right now was the time, but its a good thing so it doesn't matter why exactly.

3) Its terrible that certain recent events have happened in this world. Idk why this would impact the game this way, but it has.

4) When a tagline has a name that includes a single race/religion/etc. in it, its going to be seen as inherently divisive. Just plain bad idea for a name. Would be a good idea to have talk like that banned from region chat. Any more talk of this would get too political or off topic imo and have no place in the game or forums.

5) Let's all play the game we have come to enjoy over the years and enjoy one of the more fun, least toxic, mostly co-op based communities that DE has cultivated here over the years and anxiously await deadlock protocol. :highfive:

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Eye of Jirachi said:

Literally no one complained when DE helped with save the children, local food banks, Australian forest fires, and numerous other real world problems. I see this as an equally pressing issue. They notify us every time. 

Saving children, helping food banks, fighting forest fires, are all universally, unequivocally positive; and apolitical - in other words, not divisive along any reasonable axis.

This is not that.

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Lmao at people who think equal rights is political. Basic human rights for all. Salute, DE. #BlackLivesMatter

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Jus Saying, Mirage needs a tune up. Ik this isnt the thread for it but I might atleast say something warframe related.

 

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

It is, but Warframe is on the Chinese market which is at odds with Hong Kong. It makes it even worse because you'd think DE surely would have had something to say about Hong Kong even more in the Chinese speaking area to stand up for human rights over there considering the ties they must have there. They didn't though because Chinese politics are different so they behave differently to stay on the safe side to not lose profits. Which is said hypocrisy. Stay silent on the issue in one region if it hurts you and speak out on it if it panders to the masses in a different region.

Either you are for promoting human rights everywhere or nowhere. You don't get to choose to be all for it, against it or impartial based on the population and government you interact with. Unless you're a company then you get to choose apparently.

Which is typical of a Western company doing corporate things for decades, and people like you only decided to mald about it recently.

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Boy, I'll be happy if Cyberpunk 2077 is out.

Oh boy, you're that kind of person. Cyberpunk 2077 is completely not political at all, amirite? 🥱

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I do not live in North America, I have no stakes in this discussion either for or against. 

We have enough problems where I am and because it is not a viral video it is not talked about. 

This is DEs game, they have full rights to post whatever they want, my like or dislike for it is irrelevant. 

DE too will only comment about things that they know about and things that happen closer to home, even though there are a lot of worse thing present in the world.

It is absolutely their right, as I said, to promote or condemn any action,

my agreement, or not, with it is not necessary.

Whether it is for any personal benefit or just to make their stand clear the message was posted,

if it was immediately closed once posted it would have been a clear disclaimer, but keeping the discussion ongoing makes it a magnet for political debates and state of the systems for one country. 

There's a difference between lighting a candle and throwing a match in a forest. 

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What did this thread turn into... Rebecca just posted one thing to show that DE supports and cares about #BlackLivesMatter and everybody is just criticising it. Let Rebecca and other DE staff post what they want on their games forum. Equal rights have nothing to do with politics. And the argument that this should be on twitter is just dumb. Not everyone has a Twitter... Which leads to the next point: This was posted on the News tab. So I basically dont see a problem in this being posted here. Stop spreading unnecessary hate.

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Posted (edited)

I'm absolutely sure of the stupidity when people pikachu-face'd when a DE did a virtue-signaling corporate decision (e.g. Sony) people decided to cry about it, THEN they decided to stand on their moral high ground and cite whataboutism because they're not "slacktivist hypocrites". Funny thing is that they skipped past the terms & conditions and still play Warframe.

Because God forbid the world is still having multiple crises with an additional pandemic in the background, people still can't think for themselves.

*Insert useless GIF here*

Edited by RamonLeeYJ
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hace 10 horas, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

Context is important for the individuals on the team being absent from livestreams that we promote within our forums. 

I support @Voltage

Your behavior is not professional when you are posting topics that should not be touched on video game forums, do not abuse the goodwill of the community

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Posted (edited)

I understand and agree with the sentiment, but honestly, that slogan is the worse. It just perpetuates the problem, it still puts one group apart, it just keeps the Us vs Them mentality, which is the issue at hand, we're all human, we all bleed red, and the less we do to keep erecting boundaries, the better.

Life Matters, we're all the same people!

In the game, apart from blanket racist statements, which should be dealt with. If your race is personally targeted (as in someone directs a racist slur at you with intent), then maybe you made it a subject of contention, because, other than people that know you personally, its pretty much impossible to identify someone's race/religion/political affiliation. Sex/Gender can be inferred if you use voice chat, but your sexual orientation can't.

So, maybe, don't wear it like a badge. I don't mean don't be proud of your heritage, but maybe, keep it to when its relevant. And don't feed the trolls.

Finally, if someone does say something that you find offensive, maybe, if possible (sometimes it isn't because the person is being aggressive) try to talk to the person and educate them, instead of just going for the penalizing angle. Don't forget that we're people from all over the world, and that things don't have universal meanings.

Edited by ReaverKane
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I expect this from a random YouTube or Instagram person, but not from DE, the we are against bad things and pro good things is really unprofessional and amateur, the behavior of people on region chat and some of the partners is something that many have warned this company for years. I don't like this, it seems like a PR move. Violence is wrong, always was always will be, i don't need a slogan to teach me something i know. I'm sorry if i offend someone with this, it wasn't intended.

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This is better than any of the drops we've been getting lately.

(Although granted that's a seriously low bar. When I started, the first drop I got was Glaxion Vandal. Now it's glyphs.)

But seriously this is a genuine issue and it's nice to see some people who I'd like to think have some influence caring about it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Chroia said:

Saving children, helping food banks, fighting forest fires, are all universally, unequivocally positive; and apolitical - in other words, not divisive along any reasonable axis.

This is not that.

you're wrong and it's bittersweet to me that you think those things are apolitical and unequivocally positive. there are many people who think that those who rely on food banks deserve to starve and that food banks should be closed down as they cultivate laziness. I think of such people who hold such awful attitudes and priorities as just as poorly as I think of you and all the others who would deign to criticize DE over this matter. As if rolling over to die would be more fair for everyone.

hopefully one morning you'll wake up and realize what a terrible world we live in, and all the worse for it is to think helping a group of people not constantly get murdered and discriminated against is not unequivocally positive and apolitical

Edited by Gwyndolin-chan
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11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yup  - lots of concerns surrounding Partner conduct, and that is something we are intending to address with the larger program changes that we mentioned earlier this year.

Thank you for the answer, feels me with a bit of hope ❤️ 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, snekity said:

What did this thread turn into... Rebecca just posted one thing to show that DE supports and cares about #BlackLivesMatter and everybody is just criticising it.

It's because she posted it in a place where players/users established it to be just about the game. The OP could've been okay being here if it weren't for the ugly always following it. As of right now the riots, violence, and looting are so prominent when anyone mentions #BlackLivesMatter; every media outlet that's covering this mentions one, if not all three, of them. Prolong exposure to this can make a person sour/salty indiscriminately and coming to a place where the person can take break from all that is understandable.

1 hour ago, snekity said:

 Let Rebecca and other DE staff post what they want on their games forum.

This is not the first time where someones media platform was established as something else by its users.

While it may have been more suitable for it to be in the Off Topic section, every other section and its content is directly about the game. IMO, it would've been better for them to just post it on the Warframe Homepage and their Twitter (I know the latter is already there). The homepage is just news stuff, general information, and links to other places relating to Warframe, but no one can reply on that website. Twitter is just a general media platform so anything goes.

Edited by NekroArts
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3 hours ago, Chroia said:

Don't get me wrong: All people should be treated humanely, as people.
No one deserves to be killed by the police when they're not a clear and imminent threat.
Black lives matter, same as every other life.
Unjustly killed black people deserve justice, same as every other unjustly killed person.

That said.
I'm somewhat out of the loop on this topic, but didn't it happen like 50 hours ago?
A) How certain are you that all the relevant information is out, and that this was explicitly a racial action?
Are you certain enough that you'll risk making it about race if it isn't, which loses George Floyd the man and turns him into 'another black man killed by police'?
B) How, exactly, is DE responsible for a black man dying while in police custody... in Minnesota?
Unless we assume that any and all of the people directly involved were players of your game... what bearing does anything  you do, or have ever done, have on this case?

A) There is clear footage with audio. A good police officer would NEVER do that to either an innocent, suspect or guilty, even if they were a terrorist. "Get in the car, while I keep my knee in your throat!". "Oh, he's out! Better keep my knee for 5 more minutes for GOOD MEASURE!"

B) People seem to NOT read the entire post, which states that DE wanted to give a reason as for why the livestreams are cancelled, and the reason is because the staff decided to take their time to better address forums issues like toxicity, racism and other things.

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2 hours ago, Gawizard said:

Jus Saying, Mirage needs a tune up. Ik this isnt the thread for it but I might atleast say something warframe related.

#AllFramesMatter still relevant now

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44 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

This is not the first time where someones media platform was established as something else by its users.

While it may have been more suitable for it to be in the Off Topic section, every other section and its content is directly about the game. IMO, it would've been better for them to just post it on the Warframe Homepage and their Twitter (I know the latter is already there). The homepage is just news stuff, general information, and links to other places relating to Warframe, but no one can reply on that website. Twitter is just a general media platform so anything goes.

I fully agree with you but I still think that its not really a reason for other player/users to spread hate.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)Eye of Jirachi said:

Literally no one complained when DE helped with save the children, local food banks, Australian forest fires, and numerous other real world problems. I see this as an equally pressing issue. They notify us every time. 

It's so weird to see so many people come out against THIS issue.

#blacklivesmatter

Yup.

The rampant unironic use of #AllLivesMatter in this thread is sickening. Doesn't take much for people to show their true faces.

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Thank you for your openness and honesty in recognizing problems that are not just being highlighted in America right now, but also affect many people around the entire world. Although this may not be the best platform to have a conversation like this, I'm not gonna assume the worst of anyone involved and I hope everyone here is speaking with the intent to better all of our lives. In an act of selfishness though, I am begging everyone to step back and look at other viewpoints so we don't turn this forum into a bastion of misaligned anger.

To DE: Not everyone sees companies having a duty to make statements like this. They see it as a corporate play to take the target off your back while simultaneously taking control of the narrative from the people who are being oppressed. Making a stand takes actions, not just words. Coming home with welts from rubber bullets and tear gas still in your eyes to see companies just making hollow platitudes on Twitter can breed a lot of discontent. It doesn't help that some feel a level of hypocrisy due to your connections with China. But this is the first step, and many look forward to seeing what more you're planning to do to stand up with them against hate.

To #BlackLivesMatter: It may be tough to turn on the news and see rioting and looting. To see people having their businesses destroyed and lives ruined while those in the crowd preach about the rights of a single race. Some people out there are scared because they feel like they played by all the rules and are paying consequences that will change their lives forever. Please do not wash over good people in this wave of change, and instead help to pick them up and walk hand-in-hand. Do not assume all people who are lashing out against your protests and visibility are doing it from a platform of racism, but rather anxiety and frustration. Comfort them and call out the people capitalizing on fear.

To #AllLivesMatter: There is no denying that there are evil individuals trying to take advantage of all of this. That they seek to turn this into a war rather than a cultural change. However, do no conflate the recognition for systematic injustice with a tiny group that seeks to flip the tables in their favor. A few words can have a far deeper meaning than any definition that you can find in a dictionary. Do not take a simple statement advocating for the rights of an historically oppressed minority at face value to assume that they're only advocating for those people. Grouping everyone together again terrifies the oppressed into thinking that their voices will go back to not being heard. Recognize their struggle.

To those against this thread: The forums have long been the place where people come together to get their voices heard. Whether successful or not, many times we set aside our enjoyment for this game to point out what we see as wrong. Thankfully, through many of your efforts this forum has stayed the course in attempting to direct DE in making this game better. But if we ask DE to neutralize their statements, we are taking away one of the things that makes them unique. I know so many of you have been here since the very beginning and you know the importance of keeping DE connected on a very personal level with the community. And sometimes that really means riding the line between massive video game company and the little team of Canadians we met on Devstream 1 seven years ago. Let them voice their words in the way they see fit, so we can go back to voicing ours.

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Posted (edited)

Right.
Let us, for a second, pretend that I grant everything you say.

3 hours ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

you're wrong and it's bittersweet to me that you think those things are apolitical and unequivocally positive. there are many people who think that those who rely on food banks deserve to starve and that food banks should be closed down as they cultivate laziness.

We're ignoring that I said 'not divisive along any reasonable axis'? Alright then.

1) The world would look very different if people couldn't be wrong.
But sadly, people can be wrong. And people are allowed to be wrong.

2) The person I quoted listed 3 things. I list those same 3 things.
Credit where credit is due, you explain why you disagree with one of those things. But that doesn't disqualify the other two things.

3) Context matters.
It's one thing when someone who uses a food bank because they can not afford to feed themselves for whatever reason.
It's another when someone uses a food bank because they will not spend their money on that because they go 'eh, I'll just get food from the food bank'.
In a Warframe example: It's the difference between carrying someone through a Tridolon because they're contributing but they're new and their Amp/Operator isn't up to snuff, and carrying someone who's spending the time on the other side of the map, fishing.

4) People, again unfortunately, can be -among other things- entitled, A******s, lacking in empathy, charity or any or all of the above.

 

3 hours ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

I think of such people who hold such awful attitudes and priorities as just as poorly as I think of you and all the others who would deign to criticize DE over this matter

How's the view from atop that high horse?
I hope that your uncharitable attitude is situational rather than habitual.
Then again, refer to #4, above.

 

3 hours ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

hopefully one morning you'll wake up and realize what a terrible world we live in, and all the worse for it is to think helping a group of people not constantly get murdered and discriminated against is not unequivocally positive and apolitical

The world is fine.
People can act terribly.
Everyone deserves equal basic human rights. Working towards that is an unequivocal good.
But there are better and worse ways to go about it.

Acting out emotionally and unconsideredly, while also potentially stealing a man's own death from him, before all the evidence is in that he died due to your cause, before his family gets justice for his death, just so you can use it to push your cause?
That's not good.
The most charitable interpretation I can give is that it's an emotional and ill considered action.
Less charitably, it's opportunistic, cynical and dehumanizing.


While I understand that sound bites are catchier, sloganeering isn't beneficial, especially when it misportrays reality.
All lives matter. Some people need more help more immediately, absolutely.
Since people apparently don't like 'all lives matter':
Saying "Black lives matter" is a singling out, as distinct from others' lives.
Saying "Black lives also matter" is emphasizing, as part of others' lives.

Edited by Chroia
Not selfish, dehumanizing.
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