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Digital Extremes Statement + Livestreams


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@[DE]Rebecca

I'm glad that you feel moved enough by what is currently happening in the United States of America to want to raise your banner and make your voice heard in the fight against prejudice and inequality in any of it's forms. 

It's a great and noble thing that you are doing.

But, I'm interested to know what yours and through you Digital Extremes (as you seem to speak for the entire company) thoughts are on the still ongoing human rights violations being committed against the free people of Hong Kong.

The troubles in Hong Kong have been ongoing for a lot longer than the current troubles in the USA, and, a lot more people have been injured and indeed died because of them.

Are you willing to make a stand against that here?

Are you willing to be an advocate for their cause? For their freedom?

Are you willing to speak out for them as well?

 

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25 minutes ago, (XB1)shadowhedgehogk said:

however just make sure you guys don’t to anything too large don’t want the region chatters devolving into rioters  

This is plain out wrong man. I understand the fear, but trying to be discreet about something in fear of retaliation is precisely the opposite of accomplishing change.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HolySeraphin said:

A good police officer would NEVER do that to either an innocent, suspect or guilty, even if they were a terrorist.

I absolutely agree.
Edit: Actually, hold up. Let me repeat and emphasize this:
I do, absolutely, agree. A good police officer would not do that.
Obviously, however, we're not dealing with a good police officer.
/Edit

But saying that a bad cop killed a man because he's a bad cop is very different from saying that a white cop killed a black man because the cop's a racist.
Especially when the details of the situation are not yet clear.

1 hour ago, HolySeraphin said:

There is clear footage with audio.

Yes, and if I knew that that footage covered the entire context of this case, I wouldn't have argued waiting until all the information's in.

As I said, I'm not really following this case, and I know that:
A) Three officers were at-one-or-other point... not sure what the exact term here is, but 'holding him down'.
B) the ME says George Floyd died of heart attack, not asphyxiation.
In other words, the stress of the situation is what directly killed him.
Which was not helped by what the officers did - which was unarguably not 'by the book', nor by his less-than-perfect health. And possibly most importantly, none of this excuses the 8-or-so minutes in which he said he couldn't breathe and they did nothing about it.
C) George Floyd and Derek Chauvin knew each other outside-of and before this event.

Framing this a 'a cop killed a man' is inaccurate. They unarguably contributed to, arguably caused, his death - but that's not the same as out-and-out killing him.
Jumping immediately to 'a white cop killed a black man because he's racist' is not yet founded.
Jumping to 'a white cop killed a black man because all cops are racist' is patently untrue.

***

1 hour ago, HolySeraphin said:

B) People seem to NOT read the entire post, which states that DE wanted to give a reason as for why the livestreams are cancelled, and the reason is because the staff decided to take their time to better address forums issues like toxicity, racism and other things.

I did read the whole post.

OP could have said 'Current events have inspired us to "take our time to better address forums issues like toxicity, racism and other things" (to use your words), so there will be no streams this week'. I have no problem with that.

What OP actually said, was:

13 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

... we must also focus on paying attention to the world as justice is demanded for black lives. And we must listen and learn how to do better.

which I think is fair to characterize as 'nowhere near the same kind of statement', to say the least.

Edited by Chroia
Emphasis.
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Why is this thread even open still? 

They irony of people crying "this board shouldn't be political" while also being the only ones spewing heavily bias divisive political views... Turning a simple post about support into one that's actually divisive, offensive and political. 

If a company wants to support a cause and your only contribution is why they shouldn't- YOU are the one being political. No one asked if you agreed. If your rights aren't being violated, why comment? 

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While I can understand Voltage's and other player concerns, I do think its valuable to make clearly accessible this message in a way that allows for feedback and interaction; why the news feed might not have worked as well. I hope that everything can find a wholesome resolution in time; but until then its positive to at least appear to support social equality.

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Allright i dont usualy do that but here i go.

First i understand why some tenno have problems with that kind of thread being on the forums . But keep in mind that the thing is its not irrelevant to the forums due to the fact that its to warn us that DE is not doing live streams ( linked to warframe ) this week due to the fact that they are working on doing better as well as working on the partner program.

Some partner have been under fire from parts of the community and they voiced publicly that we are the worst community ( yup they putted all of us in the same group).

How does it sounds or feel ? I mean just being all put judgement on all of us being the "worst" even if a bunch of us did nothing. Feels wrong right ? No matter how good you do , how long you played , how much tenno you helped , how much you contributed you are still the worst and will be treated like crap for it.

Take that feeling and make it your new normal that would be really annoying right ?

... Grab that and multiply it by 10 and instead of being on an internet game make it your real life. 

Thats why people are protesting. 

Racism is a real thing. Some people have so much hard time in real life that they go to play video games as for a little escape. A light in their day.Then they get greeted with racism again?

I used to play Megaman a lot when i was a kid. Doctor Wily seemed kinder to me than the people in the real life. Yeah i know he is trying to kill you but at least in the video game you can fight back.

Tennos i hope you take good care of yourselves and keep in mind ... A simple act of kindness can change someones life. Well it was true for me.

Digital Extremes i just want to thank you for taking a stand on this kind of things. Its really appreciated.

PS: if a tenno ever ask if i did a post without my classic smiley face you will be able to point to this one.

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5 часов назад, gabuchan сказал:

Basic human rights for all

My man. We don't have 'rights', we have 'privileges'. there is a difference between these two. A substantial difference i might add. If you want to dive deeper on the subject i suggest you to read some books by Noam Chomsky.

1 час назад, Chroia сказал:

People can act terribly.

oh yes, we are humans after all.

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14 hours ago, Voltage said:

I understand the point of the statement within the Tweet and all that, but shouldn't we keep these sorts of things off the Warframe Forums?

Twitter can be used for that...

EDIT: I just want to make abundantly clear that I am in no way trying to challenge the message of this post. All lives do matter.

However, I just cannot, and will not support this sort of discussion within the Warframe Forums, even if it is coming from Digital Extremes. This is a Forum for gaming Warframe either solo or with your buddies. Updating the community that streams are cancelled due to "unforeseen world events and tackling internal community handling" would have perfectly sufficed.

From the Warframe Forums Guidelines:

This content is undeniably irrelevant and inappropriate for the Warframe Forums. I am all for spreading a positive message of excellence to one another, but this thread just should not exist.

Have to agree myself. I'm afraid. Breaking the rules of the Forums yourself, but if another person does it, kinda feels like you bend the rules to fit your way. Same issue goes for the outbreak, we're aware of it, no need to put it into a place where we game with our buds.

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15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

And we must listen and learn how to do better

Ok, still listening, then I will mention that this week's Nora's stuffs has many new mods which many of us don't have because we don't play conclave, but the credit reward in the reward tier has not enough credit reward for us to get them all unless the reason is wanting us to play non-stop to reach tier21 which is the next credit reward. But even so, as mentioned by some, it is not enough credit. So why cramp so many 'new' stuffs which there are not enough credits to get?

Well, some will say those stuffs will come back later... but the point is, by putting those stuffs out here now is like mocking us 'hey I got these stuffs you don't have but you don't have enough credits to get them all now wahahaa'. 🙂

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2 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

@[DE]Rebecca

I'm glad that you feel moved enough by what is currently happening in the United States of America to want to raise your banner and make your voice heard in the fight against prejudice and inequality in any of it's forms. 

It's a great and noble thing that you are doing.

But, I'm interested to know what yours and through you Digital Extremes (as you seem to speak for the entire company) thoughts are on the still ongoing human rights violations being committed against the free people of Hong Kong.

The troubles in Hong Kong have been ongoing for a lot longer than the current troubles in the USA, and, a lot more people have been injured and indeed died because of them.

Are you willing to make a stand against that here?

Are you willing to be an advocate for their cause? For their freedom?

Are you willing to speak out for them as well?

 

After all, unless you are willing to focus on ALL the world's evil, you should never show solidarity or champion a cause.

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Posted (edited)

A group of players lashing at another group of people for relating to a cause is all this sums up to. It's not a battle of discriminations, not a war of ideologies, not a battle or worse evils. It's just people trying to forbid people from relating.

How does forbiding a group get YOUR discrimination group through?
How does forbiding a group get YOUR ideology through?

How will anyone ever get their injustice listened if you will tell them and the people who related to them to shut up because it's not the same injustice of another's?

Edited by Duduminador
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Posted (edited)

If the team is taking resources away from other works to take a look at the Region chat, can we also get chat commands to make freely joinable/leavable custom permanent in-game chats?

Not all of the players i team up with are in the same clan, and as of now we are forced to communicate through either 1on1 messages or external socials until grouped ingame

/join chatname

/leave chatname

Would aready be enough, you can even enforce all moderation bots presence and so start giving us an alternative to always having to offsource friendgroups communication to Discord or other external ways

Edited by Seijax
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

Rebecca's post is divisive, political and toxic, and only stands for one race, one kind of injustice. My head isn't the one buried in the sand. 

Imagine feeling that saying that people should not be murdered based on race is toxic. Or political for matter. Just..... wow.
Also, they have talked about other issues before, have done many charity streams and events for other things like cancer, providing food to the poverty stricen, the wildfires in Australia ect.

Edited by (PS4)BlightDragon89
wait.... this is a political issue???
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16 minutes ago, (PS4)BlightDragon89 said:

Imagine feeling that saying that people should not be murdered based on race is toxic. Just..... wow.

I know right

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Posted (edited)

If you are going to do something about region chat I personally wouldnt mind a zero tolerance policy towards political and religious topics. No one in their right mind walks into a resturant and starts having a loud political debate with a random guy at the other end of the room. It would likely result in both getting thrown out for disturbing the other visitors. I dont see why a region chat should be different in a game where so many people and cultures co-exsist.

The game should help people stress down from everyday life. If someone finds stress relief in political/religious discussions or in discussions proclaiming their sexual preference etc. there are platforms out there for that, I dont see any point why it should be in a chat accessible to everyone. I'm fine with if people want to engage in such discussions in private tells, a squad or a clan chat, but for me it has no room in a chat that is for everyone.

You should also likely look over the profanity filter in the game as a whole, be it in chat or when it comes to naming pets and weapons. For example, we cant reference assassin's when naming something, same as we cant discuss the vocalist of Iron Maiden either since his name is $&*^inson. The profanity filter may be a bit too zealous.

edit: See, poor Bruce's last name gets censored even here.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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37 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No one in their right mind walks into a resturant and starts having a loud political debate with a random guy at the other end of the room. It would likely result in both getting thrown out for disturbing the other visitors. I dont see why a region chat should be different in a game where so many people and cultures co-exsist.

Because unlike your restaurant example, ingame /ignore exists, and people can-and-should use it?

What's better: a blanket ban, or personalized curation?
Put another way: do you prefer to have options/freedom -and the associated costs, or external restrictions?

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If only some of you writing long screeds about the OP being inappropriate or throwing around the overused "keep politics out muh games/but ALL lives matter" were even half this passionate about the murder and brutality against minorities by the police. Like, #*!%. 

#BLM

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2 minutes ago, Chroia said:

Because unlike your restaurant example, ingame /ignore exists, and people can-and-should use it?

What's better: a blanket ban, or personalized curation?
Put another way: do you prefer to have options/freedom -and the associated costs, or external restrictions?

You can ignore those people IRL too, you get up and walk out of the resturant.

We shouldnt have to go through hoops to get an acceptable region chat because a few like to go overboard in it. I have played very few games where political and religious discussions are acceptable in general/region/public/zone chat. If I think about it, only WF and Path of Exile are games where I've experienced it. Ignore isnt a solution, since if someone is ignored because people just dont wanna see political discussions it also effects the rest of the game. You wont see them in trade or anywhere else either. So zero tolerance policies for such things is the best option.

In this case I'd prefer external restrictions. Not that it should be enforced by the chat automatically, but it should be a thing we can report if it bothers us, like in other games where politics/religion is not accepted in general chats. This isnt about freedom either, since the freedom would still be there to discuss it in the game, just not in the public chat.

I can count on one hand the times I've actually engaged in political or religious discussions in a game chat over the last 20 years. I cant count the times I've engaged in such discussions on proper platforms though or in private/guild chats.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for making the choice to address these problems rather than the easy option of silence. Region and the partner program have a lot of problems that make for a less than welcoming environment, and I'm looking forward to hearing what you have in mind. 

As an aside to others, whataboutism is ugly, and not an argument. Be better.

Edited by ZackOak
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, (PS4)BloodyHell said:

If only some of you writing long screeds about the OP being inappropriate or throwing around the overused "keep politics out muh games/but ALL lives matter" were even half this passionate about the murder and brutality against minorities by the police. Like, #*!%. 

#BLM

Personally I cant be passionate about it since it is an american issue that they seem inept to solve. Other countries have worries of the same scale regarding other things, that have the same impact on people. This police brutality is far from a global thing.

edit: Just to be clear, no matter the color of your skin, you matter the same to me.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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⚠️ Opinion detected ⚠️ 
 

I feel this more of a twitter thing rather than a forum thing.

When Australia was on fire, I get raising donations for that, and it was pretty cool. 

The riots and protests going on in America is a normal thing for us Americans. The president is just calling the governs weak and isn’t even taking it that seriously. Every time police overstep, there is protests. 


But isn’t this a game where we commit mass genocide daily? What about #grinnerlivesmatter or #corpuslivesmatter

All lives matter in the end. It doesn’t matter what you are or who you identify as. 

#tennolivesmatter

Are we allowed to engage in political discussions on the forums now? 

I feel it would be better to just release a quest with Clem and John Prodmen becoming friends  despite their differences.

Or make Nora do some mini quest for standing 

In the background of Warframe there is a deep unrest and I am glad it is being addressed again.

TL;DR I feel this should be a twitter thing. It’s a videogame not a political platform. #tennolivesmatter . Clem x JohnProdmen? In my opinion btw. 

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Posted (edited)

Looks like we're going to see more people getting kicked from region chat. On ps4 someone gets kicked every minute or so, now it might be even more frequent. Region chat will always have toxicity. This is the Internet after all. Theres always going to be some immature person somewhere in the world blurting out inappropriate comments. Region chat is a lost cause. But if you do try to fix it, all I have to say is Good luck

(ps4)drollive96 was kicked

Edited by (PS4)drollive96
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Posted (edited)

It's really gross how many people are posting "All Lives Matter" in this thread. It's either a racist dogwhistle or you're simply not getting the point at all. At this point, I tend to think it's the first one.

#BLM

Edited by LordPreda
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