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Rivens: an alternative to stat locking ideas


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my idea for rivens is this: 

rivens are generated the same way as they are now: you can get any configuration: ++, ++-, +++, +++-

the +++- form is the final form of a riven; if you get that, you can't do anything else with this aside from rolling it as usual

other configurations are considered "fractured" or "fragmented" something like that in line with the theme and aesthetics of "riven" (meaning something torn apart), "riven slivers" etc

you can put a riven sliver "back" into a ++ to get either a ++- or a +++; by doing so you lock the existing stats and add randomly either a positive or a negative, to get a random third stat

once you have a ++- or a +++ riven you can put in another sliver to get a +++-; same rules apply

once you've done that, you've exhausted the riven "reconstruction" procedure, and can't go back to convert a +++- to a ++- or a +++

so you only have two shots basically.

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If I might give an alternative, tweaked thought:

What if we started from one stat, and added on a stat with each sliver? E.g. (+, +-,) ++, ++-, +++, +++-, where each sliver either locks in the stat prior and adds a new stat or makes a negative stat into a positive (up to +++-).

Same sort of idea, just gives a little more control to emphasize progression, and avoids the possible case where I unveil a Riven into a +++- when I wanted a ++- and there's no way to go down a peg.

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11 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

if you'd make a positive out of a +++- riven's negative, you would end up making a ++++ ... so you can't really go down a peg.

1. It would cap out at +++-

2. The inability to go down the scale is kind of the issue I was pointing at. If I unveil a +++- but I wanted a ++-, I'm SOL.

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18 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

If I might give an alternative, tweaked thought:

What if we started from one stat, and added on a stat with each sliver? E.g. (+, +-,) ++, ++-, +++, +++-, where each sliver either locks in the stat prior and adds a new stat or makes a negative stat into a positive (up to +++-).

Same sort of idea, just gives a little more control to emphasize progression, and avoids the possible case where I unveil a Riven into a +++- when I wanted a ++- and there's no way to go down a peg.

This is a neat idea. Not sure they'd ever let us do it, as we could basically construct whatever Riven mod we wanted (though, maybe the act of locking in a stat means the Riven also becomes untradeable?), but it's a nice mix of RNG with player control that we can realistically get to a desired point.

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An idea I had for Rivens (but it is a DRASTIC idea) would be for them to no longer be random. Like, DE comes up with exact modifiers on the rivens, custom tailored for the weapons in question. As an example, take something like Kuva Hind, which has firing modes for Semi (Crit-based), Auto (Status-based), and Burst (Hybrid). The Riven for Hind would then have either: +CC, +CD; +SC, +RoF; or +SC, +CC. Of course, this would also require that Rivens were meant for specific variants as well.

Then rerolling Rivens with Kuva would look like: you can spend X Kuva (maybe say 10,000) and choose a specific loadout for that weapon. This would include the variants for that weapon. So with the Hind example, you might see loadouts like: Hind with Damage, SC, and RoF; Hind with Damage, CC, and CD; Kuva Hind with CC and CD; Kuva Hind with SC and RoF; Kuva Hind with SC and CC.

This would be drastic, though, and it would absolutely obliterate the Riven market. The only determining factor of a Riven's value would become the weapon it rolled for.

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I actually kind of like this idea, especially as it gives a purpose to Riven Slivers, which are currently just too uncommon to be a reliable way to get Rivens.  Even popping Requiem relics, the chance that you get a valuable Riven is so low, you are actually better off selling Requiem mods/farming for Kuva.

Basically, I like this, as it would provide a real reason for Riven Slivers to exist, would remove *some* of the RNG nature of Rivens (disposition might have to be tweaked across the board) and maybe DE could put in another thing to buy with Platinum, where you spend like 5 Riven Slivers to lock in the one stat.  It could be yet another thing that wouldn't necessarily be pay-to-win (like Formas, you still have to do the normal Riven stuff and you can get them normally) but another option for those who wish to look for other things to have fun in the game.

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5 hours ago, waterboytkd said:

we could basically construct whatever Riven mod we wanted

I think the effect is more psychological than tangible. Of course, it is a touch easier to roll-and-lock than to roll straight-up, but you still have to get through the RNG for every stat and building up the Riven itself - all of which adds value. Not to mention the RNG of the stat's value, which - if DE really wanted - they could emphasize with a larger breadth to tickle the min-maxing reflex. Put more value on the number than just on the type of stat, as it were.

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How about give Riven Slivers an alternative use?

Use one them (or probably more and for my sake together with the usual amount of Kuva) to reroll not the whole Riven but just one stat.

And/Or use even 5 to either just reroll the weapon of a particular Riven.

That way you keep most of the RNG (all the single rolls and the distribution of positive and negative stat slots) and still give the players a way to work towards a desired Riven.

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What a surprise 🙄.

But your idea only gives the possibility to finally get to a +++- Riven without any control over it's stats (which is the main problem of the whole Riven system).

Plus, as Tyreaus already mentioned: Your idea ultimately leads only towards obtaining a +++- Riven without a way back. It doesn't account for Players, who prefer having ++- Rivens since those get higher stat values.

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i don't agree with you on the premise of what's wrong with the whole riven system. 

this topic is about my idea, for typical stat locking ideas there are older threads. you idea to lock not one but two stats which is not realistic as it trivializes riven rng completely so everyone will have the best rolls. 

the problem is not about everyone not having the best possible rolls, it's about a vast majority of rivens being total rubbish due to merciless rng. 

my idea makes it possible to start with a modest and cheap ++ negless riven with acceptable stats and to have a non trivial chance to build it up into something actually good. 

but this should be very limited, and i'm against control over a riven's stats, i just want rivens to be more interactive and less raw lottery. 

+++- riven configuration is the best one and there's conceptually no need to go back. being able to go back and forth means being able to effectively edit a riven's stats and that's not something i'm for. 

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Fair enough.

But you still have the chance to completely ruin a Riven.

Imagine a CC, CD Soma Riven. First, you add a useless positive stat like +zoom, so your crit values go down. Next, you add a harmful negative like -multishot. Okay, this again raises your crit values but overall the Riven is worse than before.

So you reroll it completely and hope for another desireable ++?

I don't know. I think in some cases it might help to work towards a desired Riven but in a lot cases it will just shift the RNG from one layer to another. So not worth the effort, imo.

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