DE wants a Zero Tolerance policy and that's going to destroy this game

[IllogicalLogic420]

https://twitter.com/DigitalExtremes/status/1268644491000504320

See the above tweet.

I love you all at Digital Extremes and think you are wonderful people.

I thought you learned last time how much trouble something like this can cause everybody? Sure, a friendly, non-hateful, non-racist, inclusive community is what is needed, but there are a million other ways to do this. Zero tolerance ALWAYS catches innocent people in the crosshairs, and is abused by those who enforce it, as proven the last time you policed the game so heavily. And what happens to the people who got wrongfully banned? "Oh well, sucks for you, zero tolerance means zero tolerance". And then there's the issue of interpretation. The intent behind somebody's words (but I mean, if someone says something blatantly racist, I think their intent is pretty clear, they're racist). The context.

Example: What if some clueless person who doesn't understand the movement says something like "All Lives Matter" and then you ban them for hate speech. So we punish people for not knowing something that is, quite actually, difficult for a lot of people to understand? We punish people for a lack of intelligence or comprehension? No. A better way is to show them why it's not appropriate, and help them understand.
I'm not saying only black lives matter, of course all lives matter, but look at current events. This is why we say black lives matter [too].

I really don't need to say much or provide examples because if you look at the game's history, it's a perfect teaching lesson as to why something like "Zero Tolerance" will ruin everything.

You will burn yourselves and the community will attack you relentlessly like it did before.

I don't wanna see that, you don't wanna see that, we all don't wanna see that. I love you all at Digital Extremes and think you are wonderful people. But you've gotta understand...

Thanks for coming to my ted Talk.

Peace and love, be kind to one another, and let's be a good community, yeah? Yeah.

[PurrrningBoop]

This again?

[(NSW)Greybones]

What’s an alternative? 🤔 

[Cannamancer]

[LascarCapable]

Wait and see.

No one wants to see people spewing up some outright disgusting nonsense both in game and in the forums. Reinforcing the rules on that point isn't necessarily a bad idea. If this is done the right way, then the amount of in game toxicity should drop by a fair amount. Every single of these issues will be thoroughly reviewed on a case by case scenario in order to avoid unfair bans. We definitely don't want to go absolutely berzerk because some user said something vaguely controversial.

I know this is some scary news, and to be fair it also got me worried for a moment, but in the end it's all about making a welcoming place for absolutely everyone.

Perhaps I can try to answer a few questions here.

[sitfesz]

1 minute ago, LascarCapable said:

Wait and see.

No one wants to see extremists spewing up some outright disgusting nonsense both in game and in the forums. Reinforcing the rules on that point isn't necessarily a bad idea. If this is done the right way, then the amount of in game toxicity should drop by a fair amount. Every single of these issues will be thoroughly reviewed on a case by case scenario in order to avoid unfair bans. We definitely don't want to go absolutely berzerk because some user said something vaguely controversial.

I know this is some scary news, and to be fair it also got me worried for a moment, but in the end it's all about making a welcoming place for absolutely everyone.

Perhaps I can try to answer a few questions here.

I mean, people are getting automatically chat banned for having the words "nezha" and "trap" in the same paragraph.

What you wrote now is outright not true.

[IllogicalLogic420]

2 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

Wait and see.

No one wants to see people spewing up some outright disgusting nonsense both in game and in the forums. Reinforcing the rules on that point isn't necessarily a bad idea. If this is done the right way, then the amount of in game toxicity should drop by a fair amount. Every single of these issues will be thoroughly reviewed on a case by case scenario in order to avoid unfair bans. We definitely don't want to go absolutely berzerk because some user said something vaguely controversial.

I know this is some scary news, and to be fair it also got me worried for a moment, but in the end it's all about making a welcoming place for absolutely everyone.

Perhaps I can try to answer a few questions here.

I agree. I don't want to see it either. The term "zero tolerance" is what concerns me. "Wait and see" isn't a bad idea. At least it seems like most of us agree on a friendlier community and gameplay experience, which is awesome 🙂

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I honestly don’t get the point either. I never see region chat devolve into people spewing racial slurs. So being more authoritative in chat when there’s no reason to feels like it’s bound to bite them in the butt instead actually doing something beneficial.

[Xaero]

Keep in mind that something like this:

might also happen.

So, to be completely safe, I've turned off all possible chat channels.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I mean it just says zero tolerance to hate speech and racism, just have to 

9 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

Wait and see.

 

[LascarCapable]

6 minutes ago, sitfesz said:

I mean, people are getting automatically chat banned for having the words "nezha" and "trap" in the same paragraph.

What you wrote now is outright not true.

There's a whole history to that whole meme that lead DE to literally hardcode an instant 7 days ban into kickbot for this one. I don't think I'm allowed to bring back the whole story behind it, but consider that the word "trap" is often considered as a slur to designate male to female transpeople. I'm afraid it's all I can say. If it's a slur, it probably needs to not be said to begin with.

It still sucks to see people tricking new players into saying these two words together though.

[Pinegulf]

Yeah.. Who's to say what constitutes racism/hate speech?

Oh well, worst case scenario just means that the game does not have chat option. -> off to Discord. 

[Melanholic7]

2 минуты назад, Xaero сказал:

Keep in mind that something like this:

might also happen.

So, to be completely safe, I've turned off all possible chat channels.

thats weird to do this in mmo game 😄 definitely something wrong with game system, if players are doing this..lol

[vanaukas]

3 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

Perhaps I can try to answer a few questions here.

What's wrong with the alias "anachoretic"? It seems to be off topic, but if a zero tolerance policy arrives, when right now we don't even know if we are using "a bad word" (because for some reason it's seems to be cool to leave to open interpretations the things that triggers soft and hard bans), how many people will be banned without don't even understand it? I'm asking based on a thread I made (I can link it to give context but I don't want to derail this). How we can now what we could say and what not? Roght now we get chat bans for days for saying "this streamer of tenno emissions is boring", you can't even say his name on chat. I don't trust a zero tolerance policy on hands of people with clesr abusive behaviour with the power they have being moderators. Cool thing is we can't even send a ticket for that bad behaviour because,  surprise! The same people works on support. This is a terrible joke.

[LascarCapable]

1 minute ago, Pinegulf said:

Yeah.. Who's to say what constitutes racism/hate speech?

I'm pretty sure DE will write down their own definition of hate speech once they will put these rules in place.

[Pinegulf]

Just now, LascarCapable said:

I'm pretty sure DE will write down their own definition of hate speech once they will put these rules in place.

That would be great. Looking forward to those. 

[LascarCapable]

9 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

What's wrong with the alias "anachoretic"? 

No bloody clue. Have you asked that to support ? They might provide answer.

9 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

It seems to be off topic, but if a zero tolerance policy arrives, when right now we don't even know if we are using "a bad word" (because for some reason it's seems to be cool to leave to open interpretations the things that triggers soft and hard bans), how many people will be banned without don't even understand it?

That's exactly why we want to review these posts on a case by case scenario. No ban will be the decision of a single user, and we definitely to pay attention to this. Differences of culture, language barrier and overall knowledge are all very important factors to take into consideration.

Quote

I'm asking based on a thread I made (I can link it to give context but I don't want to derail this). How we can now what we could say and what not?

It's a safe bet DE will post a proper definition of what they consider as hate speech so we can base ourselves on that.

Quote

Roght now we get chat bans for days for saying "this streamer of tenno emissions is boring", you can't even say his name on chat. I don't trust a zero tolerance policy on hands of people with clesr abusive behaviour with the power they have being moderators. Cool thing is we can't even send a ticket for that bad behaviour because,  surprise! The same people works on support. This is a terrible joke.

I see who you are talking about but I'm afraid it wouldn't be wise to voice my own opinion on that matter. All I can say is that these new rules would also apply to content creators.

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

No bloody clue. Have you asked that to support ? They might provide answer.
 

That's exactly why we want to review these posts on a case by case scenario. No ban will be the decision of a single user, and we definitely to pay attention to this. Differences of culture, language barrier and overall knowledge are all very important factors to take into consideration.

 

Isn't stopping/blocking free speech illegal?, As far I recall, I am pretty sure it is?, or am I thinking of something different? 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Circle_of_Psi

[vanaukas]

5 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

No bloody clue. Have you asked that to support ? They might provide answer.
 

That's exactly why we want to review these posts on a case by case scenario. No ban will be the decision of a single user, and we definitely to pay attention to this. Differences of culture, language barrier and overall knowledge are all very important factors to take into consideration.

 

I had to send a ticket because I even asked for mod help to understand what's wrong with that name *and no one helped... And i really want to believe your words and I'm not trying to blame you or every mod, but I swear for the void that some mods have real problems with power... I wish we could talk more openly for this but I fear a bsn or warn for name and shame...

Edited June 5, 2020 by xHeretic

[sitfesz]

10 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

There's a whole history to that whole meme that lead DE to literally hardcode an instant 7 days ban into kickbot for this one. I don't think I'm allowed to bring back the whole story behind it, but consider that the word "trap" is often considered as a slur to designate male to female transpeople. I'm afraid it's all I can say. If it's a slur, it probably needs to not be said to begin with.

It still sucks to see people tricking new players into saying these two words together though.

Exactly what I meant. They want these rules more strict while this is already ridiculous?

[LascarCapable]

4 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Isn't stopping/blocking free speech illegal?, As far I recall, I am pretty sure it is?, or am I thinking of something different? 

Freedom speech isn't freedom of consequences. If you talk in a way that makes some users feel very unwelcome, DE has legal right to act as far as I am aware of. There is something about that in the community rules or in the EULA as far as I know.

 

[Gabbynaru]

You do know that most people playing Warframe are here to actually PLAY Warframe, rather than waste their time in chat, right? The people who get caught in the crossfire probably deserved it, and for most people, it won't have any effects, cause they are actually PLAYING the game. Chat bans will literally not kill the game, period. Cause the game is not about chatting.

[Kaotyke]

4 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Isn't stopping/blocking free speech illegal?, As far I recall, I am pretty sure it is?, or am I thinking of something different? 

You are thinking something different.

Free Speech doesnt apply here since the Forums and Game are a owned by a private company so they are free to say what is and what is not allowed to be said in their game.

[Reifnir]

Zero Tolerance in a world where new words are blacklisted on almost weekly basis because some special snowflake of some sub-group somewhere decided that it is *somehow* offensive? Might as well just stop using public chats at all, else someone will get offended by something!

This is NOT a healthy approach. At all. It's blanket censorship and death of free speech, that's what it is. 

12 minutes ago, LascarCapable said:

I don't think I'm allowed to bring back the whole story behind it, but consider that the word "trap" is often considered as a slur to designate male to female transpeople.

Back in the day it used to mean a cross-dresser at worst. Give it time, and we'll see those bots auto-banning Tenno for using the word "straight", "white" and "male". Because, probably offensive too. 

[taiiat]

5 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Isn't stopping/blocking free speech illegal?, As far I recall, I am pretty sure it is?, or am I thinking of something different? 

doesn't apply inside of Businesses (as far as US Law is concerned). the property of a Business similarly applies. inside of a Business' property almost all rights are waived and discretion is left to the Business.

the only exception to that is Public Forums (RE: this does not necessarily mean a Message Board Forum, similar terms but not the same). in Public Forums the waiving is itself waived on the basis that a Platform that exists for people to share/express opinions and ideas are exceptioned to having normal protections as it is considered the same thing as a Public Park.