Why Are Gms Allowed To Conduct Themselves In An Insulting And Dismissive Manner?

[A_MALLARD_DUCK]

Please see the following reddit topic and screenshots for some context, it's not me that was involved in this, but I can understand where this individual is coming from and it is honestly bothering me, as someone who put a lot of time and money into this game:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1oev0v/bronco_prime_barrel_still_not_in_the_drop_tables/

http://imgur.com/a/BiqAM

 

Why are GMs allowed to act in such a rude and dismissive fashion? This was a legitimate concern of a player, this part does not appear to be fixed on the drop tables, and it was pushed completely off the table in those conversations. I admit, maybe not the best time to push for an answer, but the only thing that needed to be said was "We're not here to discuss drop tables at the moment, we're working on solutions for that". Instead, they are very aggressive, and trying to imply that we are stealing (?) because we have some knowledge of the drop tables? What sort of community management is that? I don't see how this helps in any way. None of us are thieves, we just want to know where to look for things so as to not waste our time.

 

I'm highly disillusioned by what I've seen here. I wish I didn't support this team financially. In the interest of discussion though, I would like to start with a few prompts to get us talking in a constructive way:

 

1) Do you think that this sort of attitude is acceptable from the context of community outreach? Why or why not? Would it be acceptable internally to have these thoughts?

2) Do you believe these statements are insulting of the player base in general, as I do, or do you feel it is an overreaction from the player's side, DE's side, or both?

3) Do you believe the idea that anyone who wants to reverse engineer drop tables is a thief? Why or why not? If you do believe that this person is a thief, have you ever used any datamined information on the wiki?

 

PLEASE READ IF YOU ARE A TROLL/FLAMER: I am not interested in witchhunting these individuals, nor am I whining and trying to get my way. I am merely pointing out something that has bothered me from conversation I have seen, and wish to make others aware of it and bring a discussion to the table. If you are not interested in addressing any of the above prompts, or have other relevant information to share, I will not be replying to you or acknowledging your (lack of) contribution.

 

Cheers all, thanks for reading and considering.

[Rafikus]

Because like in many other F2P games, GMs don't care about player base.

[Arlayn]

I stand by DEs decisions to prevent people from Data mining... I feel its cheating. Not in a strategy guide that you paid for way, or in the way where its passed around by word of mouth from experience like the good ol NES days, but the kind where you take a game tear it apart and figure out all the codes. Its not right to do. It is receiving stolen goods if you did look at he data mined info. I have never looked at it. I have always asked around. We should do more looking and talking, rather then using various methods to tear open the system and look into it.

 

edit: I get the feeling many members of DE are ticked beyond reason about the data mining... hence why some are extremely edgy when asked about it and explode... Plus the reasoning behind encryption possible due to arguing, and upset employees.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Arlayn

[Rafikus]

Data mining isn't stealing or cheating in my opinion. Customizing .ini files for your advantage is.

[CasuLL]

was there even people from DE with this names?..never seen em before..

[Arlayn]

Data mining isn't stealing or cheating in my opinion. Customizing .ini files for your advantage is.

That's like saying police breaking into your house without a warrant is ok...

[A_MALLARD_DUCK]

I stand by DEs decisions to prevent people from Data mining... I feel its cheating. Not in a strategy guide that you paid for way, or in the way where its passed around by word of mouth from experience like the good ol NES days, but the kind where you take a game tear it apart and figure out all the codes. Its not right to do. It is receiving stolen goods if you did look at he data mined info. I have never looked at it. I have always asked around. We should do more looking and talking, rather then using various methods to tear open the system and look into it.

 

edit: I get the feeling many members of DE are ticked beyond reason about the data mining... hence why some are extremely edgy when asked about it and explode... Plus the reasoning behind encryption possible due to arguing, and upset employees.

 

Thank you for a response from the other side of the spectrum. I'd like to ask you though, do you feel this system is respectful of your time, or the time of others? Do you feel this is acceptable system moving forward with the PS4 launch, or for new players in general? All I feel like is that this lack of information wastes my time and makes me not want to play.

 

I would like to caution that I do not intend for this to be a discussion about the drop tables themselves. It's pretty clear what side I'm on regarding that. I'm more interested in comments about the actions the DE has taken community-wise.

[Rafikus]

That's like saying police breaking into your house without a warrant is ok...

Not really, since when aquiring data about in-game stuff is cheating?

[Mak_Gohae]

Thank you for a response from the other side of the spectrum. I'd like to ask you though, do you feel this system is respectful of your time, or the time of others? Do you feel this is acceptable system moving forward with the PS4 launch, or for new players in general? All I feel like is that this lack of information wastes my time and makes me not want to play.

 

I would like to caution that I do not intend for this to be a discussion about the drop tables themselves. It's pretty clear what side I'm on regarding that. I'm more interested in comments about the actions the DE has taken community-wise.

 

If you dont have the time to play a video game ..... why are you playing a video game?

[Lady_Khaos]

Thank you for a response from the other side of the spectrum. I'd like to ask you though, do you feel this system is respectful of your time, or the time of others? Do you feel this is acceptable system moving forward with the PS4 launch, or for new players in general? All I feel like is that this lack of information wastes my time and makes me not want to play.

 

I would like to caution that I do not intend for this to be a discussion about the drop tables themselves. It's pretty clear what side I'm on regarding that. I'm more interested in comments about the actions the DE has taken community-wise.

 

In response to your comment about new players, Steve has stated time and time again that he is aware that new players have essentially zero information going into the game, with no in game way to find out. They either have to go to other players or to the wiki. This is a fundamental flaw in the entire game. No game should ever require an outside resource to know how to play it.

[Arlayn]

Thank you for a response from the other side of the spectrum. I'd like to ask you though, do you feel this system is respectful of your time, or the time of others? Do you feel this is acceptable system moving forward with the PS4 launch, or for new players in general? All I feel like is that this lack of information wastes my time and makes me not want to play.

 

I would like to caution that I do not intend for this to be a discussion about the drop tables themselves. It's pretty clear what side I'm on regarding that. I'm more interested in comments about the actions the DE has taken community-wise.

That's being spoiled to be honest. I don't know of a single online game that gives as much info as DE does... I REALLY DON'T and I have played over hundreds... and when I talk to them I get that Halo 4 Representative talk like what happened to Angry Joe. I get the political run around... DE doesn't do that. They are extremely honest, they take our words to heart, they even take our suggestions and use them in the game. They have been very kind with many players answering questions in a timely reason. Tons of bugs have been fixed. They have managed multiple teams to release multiple content to entertain all forms of players.

 

They have opened their game base for everyone. Collectors, rare hunters, PVP, PVE, random madness killing, space ninja fans, full armor fans(Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, Karas), Sci-fi, Gun Nuts, Melee nuts. They have done it all and its very pleasing. They hear us and they release all manner of interesting things. Even a giant mech is hinted at in one of the PVP arenas just like we all wanted. Several various new weapons, and bosses are being worked on as we speak as seen in the Design Council.

 

They work with us, and I am happy with the job they do. I am not content, I am satisfied beyond reason. DE has done a good job in making the forums more friendly, adding fun features, fixing certain bugs with posting pictures. They have fixed many of our weapons such as colors. They have buffed, and nerfed accordingly to how we begged for it. They gave us glaive when we asked for it. They gave us dojos when we asked for it. They have given us all manner of fun, and enjoyable things so far in the game.

 

I personally find it hard to complain. This game is almost exactly every I ever wanted in my entire life time. There has never once been a game this epic before in the past. Finally something came... and is leading the way for a vast, and epic Sci-fi genre explosion that will take the gaming community by force.

[A_MALLARD_DUCK]

If you dont have the time to play a video game ..... why are you playing a video game?

 

Of course I have time to play video games, don't be ridiculous. I wouldn't bother making the topic if I didn't play this game. I'm not interested in taking shots in the dark regarding where mods drop, nor do I believe any community to be any good at all regarding group-compiling of statistics. I don't believe that total RNG is interesting or fun, or a good way to draw new people in.

[ChaoticVice777]

I stand by DEs decisions to prevent people from Data mining... I feel its cheating. Not in a strategy guide that you paid for way, or in the way where its passed around by word of mouth from experience like the good ol NES days, but the kind where you take a game tear it apart and figure out all the codes. Its not right to do. It is receiving stolen goods if you did look at he data mined info. I have never looked at it. I have always asked around. We should do more looking and talking, rather then using various methods to tear open the system and look into it.

 

edit: I get the feeling many members of DE are ticked beyond reason about the data mining... hence why some are extremely edgy when asked about it and explode... Plus the reasoning behind encryption possible due to arguing, and upset employees.

 

Word of mouth? Asking around? The reason people even answer in consensus, beyond playing, is the datamining tables. More looking and talking is fine, but not when we're basically forced to start from scratch every few updates, where chances will be changed.

[A_MALLARD_DUCK]

That's being spoiled to be honest. I don't know of a single online game that gives as much info as DE does... I REALLY DON'T and I have played over hundreds... and when I talk to them I get that Halo 4 Representative talk like what happened to Angry Joe. I get the political run around... DE doesn't do that. They are extremely honest, they take our words to heart, they even take our suggestions and use them in the game. They have been very kind with many players answering questions in a timely reason. Tons of bugs have been fixed. They have managed multiple teams to release multiple content to entertain all forms of players.

 

They have opened their game base for everyone. Collectors, rare hunters, PVP, PVE, random madness killing, space ninja fans, full armor fans(Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, Karas), Sci-fi, Gun Nuts, Melee nuts. They have done it all and its very pleasing. They hear us and they release all manner of interesting things. Even a giant mech is hinted at in one of the PVP arenas just like we all wanted. Several various new weapons, and bosses are being worked on as we speak as seen in the Design Council.

 

They work with us, and I am happy with the job they do. I am not content, I am satisfied beyond reason. DE has done a good job in making the forums more friendly, adding fun features, fixing certain bugs with posting pictures. They have fixed many of our weapons such as colors. They have buffed, and nerfed accordingly to how we begged for it. They gave us glaive when we asked for it. They gave us dojos when we asked for it. They have given us all manner of fun, and enjoyable things so far in the game.

 

I personally find it hard to complain. This game is almost exactly every I ever wanted in my entire life time. There has never once been a game this epic before in the past. Finally something came... and is leading the way for a vast, and epic Sci-fi genre explosion that will take the gaming community by force.

 

I'm going to be honest, I'm having a bit of a hard time taking you seriously. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and trying to have a constructive conversation. It's now (very) apparent that you have no interest in have a discussion, and instead want to promote only happy times and good thoughts. I'll leave you to polish the knobs around here, I'm trying to create discussion to make the game better.

[CompositeGNFNR]

They have said they are working on a way to show us loot tables in-game/thread.

[Arlayn]

In response to your comment about new players, Steve has stated time and time again that he is aware that new players have essentially zero information going into the game, with no in game way to find out. They either have to go to other players or to the wiki. This is a fundamental flaw in the entire game. No game should ever require an outside resource to know how to play it.

Guessing you don't watch animal planet... or saw the movie 300. Of course in reality humans with a general set of knowledge, and mature enough can easily be thrown out in the wild to fend for themselves... Its not like we lack the ability to. We came from the wild, and we can go back to it. Animals are thrown into these scenarios are survive... Plus who hasn't played Mario? Play Mario and you have no idea wtf is going on... you just run, and jump on stuff... Makes sense? No... Games should really push someone. They give a good Tutorial. Plus people can learn from trial and error, or from having played other games in the past. Boss? Boss must drop something... past experience with other games requires the player to keep fighting them till they drop something. Oh they drop BPs for said warframe. Should take note of such info. Now they will go back to get more BPs from said location. They will move on. They will learn. They will try random button combinations. Stuff happens... Its like buying a used street fighter game, or any fighting game for that manner. I always try the down forward, forward up, or down forward up as its a common combo on tons of games.

 

Its just common sense when you have played hundreds of games. Use commonly known combos cause it works on every game. Use commonly known button systems such as holding run, or jump buttons for special actions. Its been done in tons of games, and hard to miss.

[Arlayn]

Word of mouth? Asking around? The reason people even answer in consensus, beyond playing, is the datamining tables. More looking and talking is fine, but not when we're basically forced to start from scratch every few updates, where chances will be changed.

Its open beta. The game is subject to change along with their policy, and agreements between you and them. They have no obligation to you, but they are nice enough to give you fun exclusives if you have been around during the closed beta, and open beta phases you were lucky enough to get strun wraith, snipertron, vandal series... things like that. Even now the founders from disciple, and hunter are getting head bands, and master, and grand master are getting headbands, and T-Shirts that's HUGE... They didn't have to go that far for us, but they did.

[Creovex]

LOL.. The reason he got offended is simple...

 

Bronco Prime = Sucks

Bronco = Sucks

Dual Broncos = Suck

 

Why would anyone want to waste time on that gun???

 

Seriously though, I think they are just tired of the data miners slamming every mistake they make.  I would be to if I was in their shoes.

[Rafikus]

This topic(especially point 5) pretty sums up recent events https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119809-why-im-not-happy-when-playing-warframe/

[Krovakon]

That's being spoiled to be honest. I don't know of a single online game that gives as much info as DE does

Payday 2.

[CompositeGNFNR]

Payday 2.

Team fortress 2.

[NalkorRN]

I stand by DEs decisions to prevent people from Data mining... I feel its cheating. Not in a strategy guide that you paid for way, or in the way where its passed around by word of mouth from experience like the good ol NES days, but the kind where you take a game tear it apart and figure out all the codes. Its not right to do. It is receiving stolen goods if you did look at he data mined info. I have never looked at it. I have always asked around. We should do more looking and talking, rather then using various methods to tear open the system and look into it.

 

edit: I get the feeling many members of DE are ticked beyond reason about the data mining... hence why some are extremely edgy when asked about it and explode... Plus the reasoning behind encryption possible due to arguing, and upset employees.

We're pissed because without data-mining, it's impossible to tell what drops where, or if at all, and that DE can now pull shady stunts and we won't be able to call them out on it.

[Arlayn]

Payday 2.

Never heard of it... or hear anything from them not even announcements... Even Halo 4 who told you nothing, and Fable who told absolute lies, or even Hideo Kojima who lies to throw you off into lala land are bigger, more well known, and their announcements are heard far and wide... they gave tons of info not as much as DE.

[VorteX135]

If you dont have the time to play a video game ..... why are you playing a video game?

 

So you have the time to farm for 0.67% Chance prime pieces in the void because of FUBAR'd drop tables? 

 

If DE could make a drop table, with NO ERRORS, no pieces missing, no >1% chance parts, and then left the tables alone for updates to come, then I wouldn't need the dataminers anymore. But in the current system of drop tables CONSTANTLY being changed, there is no reason to even try gathering data from players for the wiki or anything of the sorts, because as soon as we think we get it figured out, DE will go and remove half the S#&$ from the drop table and give us credit caches instead.

Edited October 14, 2013 by VorteX135

[Arlayn]

We're &!$$ed because without data-mining, it's impossible to tell what drops where, or if at all, and that DE can now pull shady stunts and we won't be able to call them out on it.

Common sense says a boss will drop something eventually... Most players just know lets go kill it for something... Plus I think some of the members of DE will go on strike if they hear one more complaint from data mined info instead of something they released publicly... If they were easily coaxed into exploding on one person from a simple question then its obvious some of them are on short fuses because of it.