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[DE]Connor

Riven Disposition Procedure for New Weapons

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On 2020-06-08 at 11:00 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Greetings Tenno!

With the upcoming release of The Deadlock Protocol, we wanted to outline some further changes we are making to the Riven disposition process in response to player feedback.

When we introduced separate dispositions for each weapon variant back in November 2019, we planned to give new weapons a disposition of 1 (the “average”), or matching the lowest member of the weapon family if it already had a disposition lower than 1. Unfortunately, this meant that powerful new weapons (like the Kuva Lich collection) might have Rivens that start too strong, forcing reductions in accordance with our balance methodology.

In order to prevent this situation, we will be changing this policy: going forward, all new weapons will be released with the minimum Riven disposition of 0.5. For The Deadlock Protocol, this includes the dispositions on newly added primary kitguns, in addition to regular weapons (secondary kitgun dispositions will remain as-is.)

This more conservative approach will give us a fair chance to see how powerful and popular a weapon is on its own, before giving them access to potentially game-changing Rivens with higher dispositions. We may have an idea of how popular certain weapons will be, but under this new system, waiting a few months for players to integrate the weapon into their arsenals will give us a much clearer picture, without ever having to start high and backtrack.

This change leads us directly to another common piece of player feedback: weapons with very low dispositions are sometimes not worth equipping unless you get a very good roll, and if a weapon is way off of where it should be disposition-wise, it can take several waves of changes for it to reach an appropriate power level. 

That’s why we’re also revising another aspect of our process: In the past, we’ve only changed Riven dispositions by up to 0.2 at a time. Since new weapons are starting from the very bottom, Prime Access balance passes will increase dispositions on newer weapons by larger values, when warranted. Disposition decreases will still be limited to small incremental changes, but with these new procedures, decreases should be far less common.

Thanks to everyone for understanding, as we make changes to help make the Riven balancing procedure a more positive experience - literally!

 

On 2020-06-08 at 11:00 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Greetings Tenno!

With the upcoming release of The Deadlock Protocol, we wanted to outline some further changes we are making to the Riven disposition process in response to player feedback.

When we introduced separate dispositions for each weapon variant back in November 2019, we planned to give new weapons a disposition of 1 (the “average”), or matching the lowest member of the weapon family if it already had a disposition lower than 1. Unfortunately, this meant that powerful new weapons (like the Kuva Lich collection) might have Rivens that start too strong, forcing reductions in accordance with our balance methodology.

In order to prevent this situation, we will be changing this policy: going forward, all new weapons will be released with the minimum Riven disposition of 0.5. For The Deadlock Protocol, this includes the dispositions on newly added primary kitguns, in addition to regular weapons (secondary kitgun dispositions will remain as-is.)

This more conservative approach will give us a fair chance to see how powerful and popular a weapon is on its own, before giving them access to potentially game-changing Rivens with higher dispositions. We may have an idea of how popular certain weapons will be, but under this new system, waiting a few months for players to integrate the weapon into their arsenals will give us a much clearer picture, without ever having to start high and backtrack.

This change leads us directly to another common piece of player feedback: weapons with very low dispositions are sometimes not worth equipping unless you get a very good roll, and if a weapon is way off of where it should be disposition-wise, it can take several waves of changes for it to reach an appropriate power level. 

That’s why we’re also revising another aspect of our process: In the past, we’ve only changed Riven dispositions by up to 0.2 at a time. Since new weapons are starting from the very bottom, Prime Access balance passes will increase dispositions on newer weapons by larger values, when warranted. Disposition decreases will still be limited to small incremental changes, but with these new procedures, decreases should be far less common.

Thanks to everyone for understanding, as we make changes to help make the Riven balancing procedure a more positive experience - literally!

 

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On 2020-06-19 at 5:58 PM, JohnnyMeta said:

It's kind of absurd that Kohm has a ridiculously high status chance and other weapons don't even come close

I agree with most you have to say, I just want to point out that arsenal status chance of Kohm is just for the first shot.

The status chance per pellet at full spool of base Kohm is 6.25% and Kuva kohm is 7.5%.

Interestingly enough, Kohmak and Twin Kohmak have the highest status chance per pellet of the entire Kohm family at 13.8% which helps with their damage over time.

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Kind of glad Folrun and Co stopped working on their bot when they did. This wonderful bit of info would probably send the Crew into a coma.

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On 2020-06-19 at 9:58 AM, JohnnyMeta said:

Ideally, all weapons should be left at a disposition of 1 and remove the riven disposition level, from 1 to 5.
Make ALL weapons more attractive, improve status chance (It's kind of absurd that Kohm has a ridiculously high status chance and other weapons don't even come close), create a critical chance standard, change multi-shot mods, introduce new prime mods critical probability or critical damage or fire rate.

 

This doesn't make all weapons attractive, this makes one weapon better than the others 100% of the time in whatever that situation may be.
Homogenization doesn't bring weapon diversity either, people will pick the strongest weapon because its the strongest,not every weapon should have high crit chance and not every weapon should have high status chance, that's what makes them different.
Variety of weaponry is a big deal in Warframe and i'm sure people don't want weapons to be all the same functionally only different visually.

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I like this change and think it will do a lot of good with regards to balancing things in a way that won't let a small number of people charge outrageous prices for rivens. I'm personally a fan of removing them, though I have quite a few. But this is a good first step.

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Posted (edited)

Could we please stop having console riven dispositions ruined by pc playerbase utilizations. 
Pc players have access to auto fire/rapid fire macros That maker certain weapons far more easily utilized on pc than on console leading to unessesarily low riven dispositions for weapons with niche console usage.

Edited by (NSW)Nadlug

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i'm very scheptical on this new approach, it seems just a measure from DE to avoid the backlash from eccessive nerfing.

I really don't see them actually raising these new riven dispositions enough to make these mods relevant.

When can we expected to se prime weapons that got their disposition nuked from orbit re-evaluated?

I still find outrageous that with the latest changes some crap weapons reach better stats than their prime version with the same build and riven.

Considering the multiple layers of RNg involved in rolling a decent riven for a specific gun this shouldn't be the case.

Crap weapons with low mastery rank will still be utter crap even with a riven disposition of 10 simply because they are not interesting/fun to play.

Meanwhile prime weapons that have been already surpassed by newest ones are still relegated to abysmal disposition.

If a mod requires 18 points of capacity, disposition 1 or lower is completely unacceptable.

With the impending launch of Hard-mode starchart i'd very much apreciate if this issue was reviewed, otherwise i've got no idea what we'll fight with considering the eccessive reliance of DE on nerfs as of late

Also i'm still firmly of the idea that the entire riven system needs to lose a lot of its RNG, as it is it's akin to gambling, with most of the players losing.

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Posted (edited)

Well, my 2 cents here....

To be very honest, and I dont want to appear disrespectful, this change of riven dispos to 0.5 has a pretty sour taste to it.

You, DE, changed this "in case any new weapon turns out more powerful than intended".

This implies that you actually don´t take your time to properly test the weapons with a "meta setup", you seem to just throw them into the game and see what the playerbase makes of them.

If you DID test AND balance any new weapons beforehand, there should be absolutely no problem to let those weapons have a 3/5 (1.0) riven disposition. Which would actually allow us to use rivens for it, which -at least for me- is a main fun factor of the late game.

Also nerfing any weapons shortly after releasing them IS a slap in the face for everyone who has invested money into them. I talk about weapon slots, catalysts, numerous formas - which can easily ramp up to 100+ Platinum for a single weapon. If you also factor in the time investment and maybe even bought affinity or resource boosters, rushed building times etc., this would even go up much higher. I am not even talking about people who just buy the weapons with plat from the market.

You should really, REALLY test and balance new stuff BEFORE releasing it.

Edited by IamLoco
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Le 18/06/2020 à 04:15, -Damocles- a dit :

0.5 dispo is really weak. So weak that often another mod will always beat it. If it's weaker than existing mods, why would I use it for 18 or 9 drain?

You don't. That's the whole point of it.

Its to deter players from ever buying the riven with plat.

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Kuva bramma nerf was a blatant case of bait and switch.

Considering that to get the mastery for it you need to shell out 5 formas and the relative levelling grind (ignoring for the moment the crap that's the lich system), it would have been honest on DE side to refund all formas used in the weapon.

Besides all launchers balancing done after removing self damage was crap

 

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0.5 means  the riven  is  90% chance  worse than a gold mod, even  2pos1neg riven is not better than gold mods.

maybe you should think about this: how low is acceptable for a riven?

I don't think powerful popular weapons doesn't deserve a riven  to choose from.

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think about Staticor / Pyrana  / CatchMoon 

think about Ignis / Fulmin

think about Orthos / Atterax

hey,   they are almost disappeared!!!

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