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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


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seems a bit overkill, though I feel its mostly cuz I dont want what happened to the Lenz, to happen to this weapon..... perhaps with the Kuva Brama, and Lenz, keep the "Self damage" bit, and let them be super strong, so it forces people to aim, and it ends up as a very high risk, high reword tool

 

the Lenz could 100% use a buff as well >_>

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Colossal_PR said:

I will never understand why in a PVE game weapons get so many nerfs. Are the corpus complaining alot? Like Jesusss Christ, test something before you release it! There is a reason why people are using it alot. Maybe because it's a fun weapon. It's like take away all the fun of a funless game. It's a PVE game! 

DE nerfs by popularity, and by what weapons players want nerfed. Next will be the Kuva Nukor, just watch. 

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Posted (edited)

Maybe you guys should review explosive weapons as a whole after the self-damage removal instead of just going "AH LET'S NERF IT". These changes could be for the better, who knows, but the reason people use the Bramma is because it doesn't have absolute garbage AoE post-self-damage patch. If the other explosives were looked at and had their explosive radii increased or had the minimum damage reduced by quite a bit in some cases, people wouldn't feel like they'd have to use the Bramma to have a decent explosive weapon.

 

For instance, the Lenz just has awful damage scaling now; you're required to get a direct hit, but even then the damage is mediocre; I don't know what happened to it post self-damage but it feels way weaker than it used to; tack on the fact that it has a detonation time where enemies get even further from the center and it has just been really hurt; I honestly feel like the Lenz took the largest hit, specifically because of the detonation time; perhaps it's time for a Lenz augment, if nothing else.

Edited by Prince_El-Ahrairah
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@Prince_El-Ahrairah defenitly.... though I feel weapons like Bramma, and Lenz have an excuse to 1) have self damage 2) be super strong. I mean think about it, what happens if your in the middle of an explosion? you DONT just get knocked down.... so imo the Lenz should be a similar strength to the Bramma, and due to them having innate explosive damage they SHOULD have self damage.... aka make them strong as hell, and risky as hell to use... either blow yourself up, or your enemys up 🙂

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6 minutes ago, Sion-Forgeblast said:

@Prince_El-Ahrairah defenitly.... though I feel weapons like Bramma, and Lenz have an excuse to 1) have self damage 2) be super strong. I mean think about it, what happens if your in the middle of an explosion? you DONT just get knocked down.... so imo the Lenz should be a similar strength to the Bramma, and due to them having innate explosive damage they SHOULD have self damage.... aka make them strong as hell, and risky as hell to use... either blow yourself up, or your enemys up 🙂

It would be weird if just some explosive weapons had self-damage; I prefer the consistency of all have it or none have it; I do prefer this way more than how it used to be, but that being said the damage numbers away from the center definitely need to be extensively looked at for the explosive weapons, aside from Bramma. The entire purpose of these is to not have to aim well, yet you deal so little damage now that it's really not worth it when you could use a powerful rifle or something instead, at least to me. I am not saying explosive weapons aren't powerful and still good, but they're severely limited by the strict damage falloff numbers that they currently have. Perhaps the problem with the lenz is the Blast effect being wonky after the status changes which is causing the lower damage. Either way, the explosive numbers definitely need to be looked at and tweaked.

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As a non founder mr 28, I have seen many many many meta, so i'm kinda immune to nerfing KEKW

As for this meta, everytime I get any primary weapon riven I will ask myself "Even with this riven, even with this 5/5 riven disposition, even with ultimately god roll, can it even exceed kuva bramma?" and then I put that riven back because the answer is no. 

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6 hours ago, -TSA-KenSasaki said:

Again: its a PvE game... cant understand why we need so balance changes. Bramma is good how it is, yes it does tons of dmg and now? I saw other weapons that u can brake with riven so hard, the bramma is a joke to this but there comes 0 changes.
First the S#&$ with the Zenistar that no one plays now cause its #*!%ign annoying, now the bramma, whats next? rly, its just stupid...

Now i wait for the Shildeg nerf...

I agree. I have other weapons that do way more damage. It’s sad they nerf popular and keep unpopular trash. The unpopular stuff is boring which is way I put more time into other games now. Painting a car in a few racing games I play is more rewarding. 

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

I am gonna have to play with these changes to sew how it works, but it sounds like less of a nerf and more a redistribution of where the damage is applied and removing the brammas ability to reroll for status application.

 

I want to believe this will be a good change bevause i like the bram!a, it suits me and the fact i quite literally am almost blind so it is a good took to have when 'sod it everything is blending into everything else bring out the artillery piece.'

I get it though, bringing out a weapon with the highest base damage in the game coupled with high ceit, second fast draw in the game, and high crit is something everyone is geavitating towards.

 

Hoping the changes to how liches and low mr work gently nudge away players who are getting carried until they have their very own cluster bomb on a srick weapon.

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Posted (edited)

When i feel something is too good and probably will be nerfed - i turn out to be right in almost every case. My friend is going to be upset...

The proposed changes seem to be good on paper. They adress the issues with the weapon on multiple levels - the trigger finger spam, the insane AOE, the visual disturbance and FPS drops... Without actually touching the weapon's crit or damage stats. That's very good.

Although the ammo nerf from 15 to 5 might be just a little bit too much. Arrow ammo drops are not that common - i would often run out of ammo on it even with 15 arrows and it would stay that way for good 20 killed enemies with lockers and containers broken in-between. It was something to think about before, but now it makes ammo transmutator in exilus slot mandatory.
Is it possible to start from a less radical number? Like 10 or 9?

I also think that maybe you could sliiiighly nerf the charge speed, since its another contributor as to why people could just spam it. A very slight fire rate nerf of ~10% feels about right.

Edited by Artekkor
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Sounds like a buff honestly. at least a sidegrade. I mean, i already have ammo mutation on mine, not an issue at all.

The most commonly suggested nerf ive been seeing is to increase drawtime. Right now Bramma is one of the fastest bows by default, thats kinda crazy. Lenz is a more well balanced bow in that regard.

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Personally these changes hardly seem like a nerf, most like an adjustment to the visual clutter the weapon is capable of,which I am grateful for, also glad to know how over bearing this weapons prominence was "about 3 times more popular than anything else" is quite absurd.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Just a reminder: if a Bramma main gets angry as if they weren't expecting something like this, that's on them. 

Any time a new weapon comes out that I fall in love with I get worried lol. Kuva Brakk for example, used the crap out of that gun when it came out. Like 3 weeks later they put out a chart of Secondary Weapon usage sorted by MR, and it was like... all MR28's using Kuva Brakk lol. My first thought was, "Yay, I'm a statistic!" which was followed swiftly by the thought, "Oh god... they know!!!"

Edited by notbydesign
no swears? dang
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Low ammo means nothing for vets.

Reduced fall off and increased range is pure AoE gain.

And no increase to firing time still makes Lenz a pales in comparison.

In short, with the change you may have nerfed the visual chaos, but Bramma will remain the broken weapon after this change.
 

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bloody nuke on a stick bow making lots of bother for people who actually enjoy fighting enemies properly. In missions I be just running through like a proper ninja stealthing and cleanly taking out dudes and assasinating thralls, then an MR 7 or so Saryn with a bramma just comes in and starts blowing the map to hell. :V and I find people who've been taught how to lich poorly trying to run their max level lich with trinity and bramma that deals no damage to it cause they don't understand it's got elemental resistances. That person was getting a nukor no less.

Definitely need to lock out liches a bit better like checking MR requirements on the player genning a lich then giving them only random weapon selections on the potential new lich that they can actually get.

Bramma could probably be dialed back to like 8 shots?. have it's shot charge time be like a second or atleast 0.75 secs. knock it's crit down just a smidge or tune down damage to 75%. have your secondary bombs change as you have it and probably knock range down by 1 or 1.5? that might be a bit more tame. so it's not quite a nuke on a stick, just a high explosive grenade on a stick.

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9 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

Low ammo means nothing for vets.

Reduced fall off and increased range is pure AoE gain.

And no increase to firing time still makes Lenz a pales in comparison.

In short, with the change you may have nerfed the visual chaos, but Bramma will remain the broken weapon after this change.
 

Lenz has the innate ammo mutation, I guess you could say the bramma looses out due to having less ammo and no innate ammo mutation. then again, as a kuva weapon it has no problems at all with modding capacity and with the addition of exilus mods it might as well not be an issue in that respect either.

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Please increase Kuva Bramma's charge time, it should be slower than Daikyu. 
It doesn't make sense why grenade bow charging faster than Daikyu, while Daikyu can only pick enemy one by one (multiple enemies with its punchthrough) Kuva Bramma can decimate a group of enemies easily.

 

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Woot! Though I would have been fine with about half that and instead the ability to completely turn off ALL effects of other peoples weapons and frames... or way town down the explosions. < Feels Justified 

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Posted (edited)
11 минут назад, Vesterbro сказал:

Please increase Kuva Bramma's charge time, it should be slower than Daikyu. 
It doesn't make sense why grenade bow charging faster than Daikyu, while Daikyu can only pick enemy one by one (multiple enemies with its punchthrough) Kuva Bramma can decimate a group of enemies easily.

 

Slower than daikyu would be a goddamn overkill. Daikyu is unusable without Vile Acceleration. If anything its daikyu who needs a buff. Slow-draw bows are a historical heresy anyway...

But yes, draw speed is unreasonably fast. A sligtht nerf so it would take at least a full second would make sense.

Edited by Artekkor
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36 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

Low ammo means nothing for vets.

Its mostly to cut back the lower lvl players usage of it. It will be interesting to see if it works since this method they are using for the Bramma is not trying to nerf it outright so to speak. Also start saving up Arrow Mutations to sell. They just got a lot more valuable. 

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The kuva bramma like every other powerfull weapons (like the acceltra,ignis,fulmin,old catchmoon) weapon in the game is acessable really easily through low mr that is why peaple cannot exprience the other weapons .For me the best way to balance weapons is to make them at very high mr (like mr 25 for exemple)and acessable throw harder ways (like lichs past lvl 5).I am mr 17 now and i have no reason to go past that (i can do that verry easily if i want)so i think there must be reason past that.

 

Long story short TOP tier weapons should not be accesable very easily and you must accept the fact not all the weapons are at the same tier(like every MMO RPG game)

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