Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.

[Upright1]

These changes sound great! Thank you for taking feedback.

[(PSN)Oracle-Raven]

Zero fun allowed. As per usual.

Why am I not surprised.

[DeeDeetheSpy]

The audio and visual noise of this weapon is annoying.

[GreyEnneract]

9 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

It wouldn't reign supreme if the other explosives got the buffs they needed in the first place
Most explosive weapons were already in a bad spot.
The falloff changes even hit weapons that didn't do self-damage.
They even hit some Warframe abilities that went unlisted.

Stug for example became an even bigger joke than before.
Even after these nerfs, Bramma will still be the best explosive weapon in every scenario.

Nothing in practice will have changed.
What a mess these past explosive weapon changes have been. 

[Upright1]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Oracle-Raven said:

Zero fun allowed. As per usual.

Why am I not surprised.

Yes, you have to use your brain now. How terrifying that you cannot delete everything.

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Tenno -

If you’ve been plugged into the community discourse since the self damage changes, you’ll have seen a lot of discussions about the Kuva Bramma. 

What makes this formerly self-damaging weapon so much more dominant than the others?

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

You will see these changes in Update 28: The Deadlock Protocol, and we can discuss feedback once they are in your hands.

Until then, Tenno! 

Please do solve the actual problem of ally effect intensity in our face. The problem people have with the bramma and why mirage gets weapons nerfed is highly disruptive visual and sound effects. We NEED an option to turn down ally effect specifically.

On the the bramma itself: Melee weapons always have and still outclass bramma in its current form. It was one of the few weapons that was almost able to compete with melee weapons. Other primaries just suck and even more importantly have no place to use them. There are almost no enemies to warrant single target damage, so why should anyone care about weapons like the stradavar or the sybaris. Buff the other AoE primaries and secondaries so they can atleast pretend to compete with melee weapons.

Again you are just nerfing the most popular thing without looking at reasons why they are popular or what could be a constructive change.

[Takkov]

When will I be able to kill myself with explosive weapons again, it was one of the best things in the game?

[mikakor]

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options.

i think you meant "we don't feel good about a launcher weapon being used widely" . here, fixed for you.

 

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups -

unnecessary.  that's just a nerf for the sake of nerfing, this one. ammo doesn't fix damage or anything. now you just make mutation mod mandatory for it.

 

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3

so actual AoE not authorized? the point of being a cluster bomb bow is finally not a cluster bow anymore? be nicer and make it 5. not three.

 

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m

put this to 6 meters, then we'll talk. cause one meter ain't gonna change crap. and you damn well know it... it's just sad that you pretend it's gonna change anything.

 

overall, a GOOD explosive launcher, AoE, walled behind a massive grind, the lich, is popular and strong, and gets nerfed. alright. i see you've learned nothing. that's literally all in all a nerf out of SPITE. that's pretty much it.

ho, and...

29 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We will be monitoring feedback after these changes go live to ensure we’ve struck a better balance of having a powerful weapon - but not one that overshadows everything else in the game to the detriment of your squadmates.

first, there is no "to the detriment of your squadmates". the game is about killing stuff. people are whining like crybabies cause they can't have pretty numbers. second, you always say that you will be monitoring feedback, yet you never actually do it seriously. just look what what you did to vazarin. you gutted it out of the game.

 

do you ACTUALLY plan on listening to feedback, or will you PRETEND to do so just to not have the community on your back?

[DeeDeetheSpy]

Just now, Takkov said:

When will I be able to kill myself with explosive weapons again, it was one of the best things in the game?

I miss being able to "jump" using the Tonkor. I mean sure, we have bullet jumping, but something fun about launching yourself with an explosive. Hell, even if it was only self inflicted and super powerful, would be awesome.

[Czin]

So again a Tonkor/Synoid Gammacor debacle? While not my favorite weapon types I can already see the fuming player rage incoming..

[(PSN)Astralwanderung]

How to bring yet another weapon from most used to dumped and forgotten 101.

I didn't like Bramma too much (especially when annoying players were spamming it everywhere and made my screen look like a ship in a tempest with a rave party full on) and didn't use it much after bringing it to 40, but it was somewhat fun.

Now it'll just be another useless grenade laucher in the list.

[Zelmen]

18 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5)

With carrier's ability to convert ammo, changes like this one are pointless. All you have done is force Bramma players to require it and take away from the fun of using other pets. I would have rather seen a cool-down between shots or increased draw time before shooting.

I would also love to see a perk mod bring back self-damage for a damage buff. Risk vs reward for skilled players.

[(XBOX)satidex]

its not like everyone could see this weapon was getting nerfed. also when will gas do toxin procs again?  

[ForcestormX]

I mean, it really doesn't seem like a massive nerf overall, and it did need to be brought into line at least a bit. You have rationale for the changes and I'm willing to give them a try.

[Arkennstar]

So this is the Catchmoon fiasco all over again...

I just need to ask.. how does this happen again and again. Weapon is released so blatantly powerful that everyone and their mother is using it. Usage statistics spike. Weapon is nerfed to the ground (Bramma is still not nerfed enough in my opinion, but we'll see). All the people who invested time and resources into these obviously broken weapons are disappointed.

How hard is it to see at the conception of a weapon that it is so stupidly overpowered and easy to use that it will no doubt end up in this situation? A weapon that does more damage than snipers, is massively AoE, has absolutely no drawbacks.. Isnt it time to look at weapon balance at release instead of a few months after? I mean it doesnt take a clairvoyant to see if a weapon is going to be so over the top that it makes every other weapon obsolete. 

[Caliboom]

Thank you DE!

[Jaysus41]

Fairly mild nerfs if you ask me. I think the ammo nerf is supposed to be the change with the most bite to it, but it's mostly negated with Vigilante Supplies in the Exilus slot which is already slotted on mine, and many others I'm sure, anyway. The main damage was always from the initial blast, the cluster bombs were just the cherry on top.

If you think about it, lowering the amount of bombs could be considered a sideways buff since there's less of a risk of staggering yourself after shooting your shot and quickly running in.

[Drachnyn]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Upright1:

Yes, you have to use your brain now. How terrifying that you cannot delete everything.

Yea how dare we use anything that isnt a melee weapon. Should've known better.

[Jarriaga]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)WretchedMoon said:

And the cycle continues, until nothing is fun. Thank you the fun police in the community. I don't even use it, but now you've made sure that I won't.

You're most welcome.

On topic: I saw this coming the day it was released. Same with Kuva Nukor, but I'm surprised it didn't take a hit. Maybe because it was overshadowed by the KB. Still, this is a good decision DE. When an outlier is so over the top broken that you feel handicapped when not using it, the outlier needs to be reigned in.

16 minutes ago, Casardis said:

Thank you for addressing the huge power spike that is the Bramma!

However, this doesn't change one important thing in regards to new player experience: Kuva Liches are accessed WAY too early in the game. As soon as you finish TWW, you can access it, which is as early as MR5. I've seen SO MANY low MR players that barely have 30 hours in the game, who probably got carried and bombrushed through the map to get to Sedna Junction, and then only focused on gaining Kuva weapons. They're running in lvl 100 Kuva lich missions with MK1 weapons, Taxion and a Kuva Bramma.

This huge power spike, even after Bramma nerf, will not change.

You need to address this by putting a much higher lock on Kuva Lich access, maybe tied to MR15 or something, because this is quite ridiculous. Note that MR on Kuva weapons does nothing, because they come prebuilt in the foundry which will ignore MR requirements.

Also this.

[(XBOX)LostSpark13]

2 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

It wouldn't reign supreme if the other explosives got the buffs they needed in the first place
Most explosive weapons were already in a bad spot.
The falloff changes even hit weapons that didn't do self-damage.
They even hit some Warframe abilities that went unlisted.

Stug for example became an even bigger joke than before.
Even after these nerfs, Bramma will still be the best explosive weapon in every scenario.

Nothing in practice will have changed.
What a mess these past explosive weapon changes have been. 

Grey has a point, why instead of nerfing the most used wouldn't you work on buffing/reworking the least used weapons?

I know it's more work but it would make the gameplay more fun and varied if we had more alternative options that are viable.
Right now it's mostly melee, primary/secondary that can aoe and are polyvalent, snipers against specific bosses.

[-KenSasaki90-]

So ppl have Problems with the effects from the Bramma? U ever playd Vauban or other frames with Massive AoE effekts and annoying colours? 
The Weapon does dmg and ppl have Problems with this but Play Mesa and other Weaposn that can Clear full Enemys Weaves?
We Farm a heavy Grind from Liches to get this Weapon, its not like *here the BP und build it* no we need to farm for it and for what? That it is now BullS#&$?
Why do ppl not play other Weapons? The Problem is not that the Bramma dies Tons of DMG and have nice AoE clear, the Problem is that there is nearly NO OTHER Weapon that can do this!
First Remove Self DMG Cause ppl cant play with it and no one would play bramma, now ppl play bramma cuase self dmg is gone and u wonder why so many ppl play this weapon?
Sryly?
I dont think u understand ur own game at the moment...

List of stuff DE killed:

Zenistar, Catchmoon, Nearly all Shootguns, Amps, Arcanes, Statuses like Gas, and now Bramma.
Whats next?

[---Swaggi---]

12 minutes ago, Amazerath said:

Self damage used to take care of that just fine and encourage more skillful gameplay. Now we'll have to nerf things around a bad decision.

Absoluetly right.

BRING BACK SELF DAMAGE!!!
 If you guys havent changed that little but very fundamental thing, we wouldnt really have this discusion now since now one would running around spamming bows like a fool because that would have killed you...

I dont understand why you removed it?!?!?!

Damn it... 

[Caliboom]

Nice to see that Kuva Bramma mains are all over this thread, makes me laugh.

[HunterDigi]

Not a fan of the cluster bombs, they're the main stagger cause... why not remove them and slightly increase the normal blast radius instead?

The clusters could give this weapon more difficulty in use if it had no direct impact explosion and instead was only spewing clusters. Could also be nice for secondary to split the arrow into clusters manually (maybe a half a second or so warmup for that so you don't instantly trigger it and make it a cluster shotgun).

But as-is with explosion and clusters is rather busy and I never see the clusters when getting close and inevitably staggered by them.

 

And I do wish the launcher(s) with sticky grenades would be more powerful, maybe they could gain damage the longer they sit stickied to surfaces so you actually use them for ambushes effectively.

[zurefox]

Nice, I think is is a big and good change, thanks for this!