Jump to content

Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Maganar said:

Actually, this was one of the most widely-requested ways of nerfing the weapon, as it reduces its ability to spam and fill the map with eye-bleed projectiles and encourages smart use rather than flailing it at even solo enemies where it takes overkill to a completely surreal level - and yet does all of this without reducing the weapon's stopping power, thus allowing the fun factor of a one-shot, bomb-launching bow to remain intact.

This was both a shrewdly considered balancing choice and a widely-requested adjustment by the community.  Also... what exactly where you putting in the exilus slot - which can't take damage mods anyway - other than Vigilante Supplies already?  It boosts DPS indirectly with 5% crit enhancement and even at 15 arrows, a mutation mod was an obvious choice.  This just made an obvious choice even more obvious and you're complaining about that?

They increased the AoE, which of course you whine isn't large enough on the next line, so that AoE remains intact.  There is a completely different reason for reducing cluster projectiles that you are completely failing to grasp - status effect application.  Every individual projectile can apply status independently, leading to excessively high numbers of Viral + Slash procs from the rather obvious Viral + Hunter Munitions build that was apparent for this weapon the moment its stats were revealed.  This leads to it being far, far more effective at instantly erasing heavy targets than AoE weapons should - since they are generally focused more on clearing area of the trash mobs and softening up the big bois.

They make a buff to compensate, but your hate train demands that you categorically disapprove of every choice they make, so you make a wildly excessive suggestion to try and make it look like they are only throwing you a bone rather than actually taking players desiring AoE into account.  This isn't an effective argument.  Your suggestion comes across more like a spoof of a critique than an actual critique at this point with how far you have ventured into the realm of hyperbole.

You claim it's "walled behind a massive grind" ...accurately, I might even add.  And yet it's over three times more popular than the next weapon on the charts, but you don't take this as a sign that this massive grind is an insufficient deterrent for less ambitious players to settle for less with another launcher or even weapons of another type entirely?  Kuva Bramma has been such a wildly devastating and over-the-top weapon since release, only exacerbated by the removal of self-damage, that even that massive grind is a small price to pay for players to have the only weapon that seemed to be worth having.  Open your eyes.  Regardless of how spited you may feel, this isn't a choice made out of spite.  This is choice made because things were spiraling out of control.

Again, open your eyes.  Your viewpoint is not the only one in the community.  Just because you only care that the mission is done doesn't mean that everyone else wants to be forced to be spectator to a fireworks display.  If you really feel the game is about killing stuff, then why do you find it so hard to understand that players who don't care for Kuva Bramma might want the chance to actually kill stuff in their public missions?  This is also completely ignoring the legitimate detriments of this weapon being spammed in a mission, like nonstop eye-bleed detonations from 7 cluster bombs and cacophony of explosions with each shot fired with the second-fastest draw time of any bow that has no ammo issues to speak of since everyone is using Vigilante Armaments.

And based on the fact that DE chose to implement the widely-requested suggestion to nerf the ammo pool rather than the damage, preserving the feel of the weapon while reducing its spammability, yeah, I'd say they were definitely listening to feedback.  But since you refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of any claims other than your own, despite the abundance of detractors to your stance, it's obviously going to look like DE have closed all the lines of communication and are ignoring you.  That's because you're ignoring the conversation and just ranting that your precious baby might be touched by a hint of game balance, so you're not following the discussion going on.  DE is, and they are acting based on that feedback.

Don't humiliate yourself like this by making a long list of line-by-line breakdowns of the dev post, ranting and raving with accusations that are easily dismissed and a general failure to understand the reasoning of the people whose opinions you oppose.  Even if you don't agree with the change, you should be able to understand the logic behind reducing firing-spam without slowing the draw time by instead targeting the ammo pool, or reducing single-target damage without reducing mob clear by decreasing the number of projectiles that provide an abundance of overlapping Viral+Slash procs, but maintaining the damage numbers to still nuke the trash mobs.  If you can't even see the logic behind such changes, your complaints accomplish nothing other than revealing the narrow breadth of your mind rather than persuading anyone to take your side.  DE doesn't need to pretend about anything.  Their actions speak for themselves in their commitment to delivering a quality product despite mistakes such as pushing the bow live in such a blatantly oppressive (and visually/aurally distracting) state.

I still don't see how the eye bleed problem needs to result in a damage and ammo reduction though and why that took so long to be addressed when it was clearly such a huge issue. With respect to smart use: I have no issue with trying to stop the indiscriminate usage (even though I feel that there are worse problems that need to be dealt with first as outlined throughout this thread), but the few runs I had with it, I used it more like a secondary than a primary and that to me doesn't make sense. At the moment the ammo work around sure feels like a deterrent, and that to me is just as unhealthy for the community as over-usage. 

I really I feel this game is about nuking hoards and collecting loot, and players will always find the way to most efficiently do that; that's just a hallmark of the game imo. Especially with RNG being so tough sometimes, after repeating the same mission 50 times and no drop, I think this is one of the reasons that pushes the base in that direction; people will naturally gravitate to what they think will shave some time off of that regardless of it is in fact the best solution.

I think the stats can be misleading as purely looking at a overall percentage usage doesn't accurately capture the diversity of the game and as you rightly pointed out has lead to problems in the past. This leads me to believe that DE is true in saying that the changes are based on popularity, but I don't think this is the whole story with respect to why, and that there is a whole other economic dimension behind it which obviously they won't share. 

With respect to the quality comment, the fact that the first 5 attempts at the Jackal had to be aborted due to it remaining perpetually spinning invulnerably and my operator still calmly walking in space after exploding crewship tells me otherwise. Maybe the commitment is there but the delivery is something else. With respect to calling the release of the bow a mistake, I think that's being a bit naive when this has happened many times in the past and will happen again in future. 

Edited by -Sandman
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 7 Minuten schrieb Bandileros:

 

Problem: rate of fire is too large, allowing players to spam attacks.
Solution: reduce ammunition so that the weapons are simply no longer used.

Is it logical?

 

Sure it is logical.

Because the problem is:  high ammunition capacity/availability allowing the players to sustain a ridiculously rate of fire.

You are very stubborn or simpleminded if you only look at part of the problem and then think "I have the only solution"

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Sure it is logical.

Because the problem is:  high ammunition capacity/availability allowing the players to sustain a ridiculously rate of fire.

You are very stubborn or simpleminded if you only look at part of the problem and then think "I have the only solution"

I think if someone really wanted to spam the rate the of fire they still would. To deal with the rate of fire by not changing the rate of fire to me is illogical. This is akin to an automaker saying their vehicle is not able to be slowed down effectively so instead of tweaking the braking system or limiting acceleration/speed they decide to reduce the fuel tank size. The fact that it could work doesn't make it a smart solution. 

Edited by -Sandman
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 минут назад, -Sandman сказал:

I think if someone really wanted to spam the rate the of fire they still would. To deal with the rate of fire by not changing the rate of fire to me is illogical. This is akin to an automaker saying their vehicle is not able to be slowed down effectively so instead of tweaking the braking system or limiting acceleration/speed they decide to reduce the fuel tank size. The fact that it could work doesn't make it a smart solution. 

And then we set with an interval of 2.5 seconds 3 tablets to replenish ammunition, and 30 seconds can shoot from Brumm more often than before.

Or we increase the selection of ammunition using abilities and mods, and again spam.

This is the most illogical solution to the problem of a too high rate of fire that I could imagine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 12 Minuten schrieb -Sandman:

I think if someone really wanted to spam the rate the of fire they still would. To deal with the rate of fire by not changing the rate of fire to me is illogical. This is akin to an automaker saying their vehicle is not able to be slowed down effectively so instead of tweaking the braking system or limiting acceleration/speed they decide to reduce the fuel tank size. The fact that it could work doesn't make it a smart solution. 

It may be illogical for you, but it works. 

Example acceltra

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I stated before:

this mess with Kuva Bramma is entirely DE fault.

Why? Because they went and addressed the wrong problems!

- Self damage with its issues:

  > Oneshotting oneself when enemies need 5+shots to die = disproportionate punishment to benefit ratio;

  > Getting downed due to selfdamage because someone  bulletjumped in the way and then left you there to rot;

  > Getting oneshot because an NPC, pet (own or other's), crossed over at the wrong moment;

  > Enemies being unaffected by selfdamage;

All of the above, excluded the last point, was substantially solved by shieldgating and improvements in explosive weapons trigger mechanics, removing selfdamage was unneeded.

As it was stupid adding self stagger and damage falloff on weapons that were already mediocre.

(Lenz in particular was doubly screwed due to both explosion falloff - on an implosion bow - and changes in status procs - now its innate cold proc doesn't keep enemies in explosion range anymore)

- Kuva Bramma topping all usage charts, only due to DE lack of foretought:

  > low MR players are able to access and use it before its intended MR, they have no reason to use anything else after getting it except for mastery ranking;

  > MR 5 players being able to obtain what should be an MR 20+ weapon, it trivializes the entire star chart then

  > no selfdamage or downsides on a AoE weapon with huge radius and better draw speed than most bows -> top tier weapon, obvious from the drawing board

Kuva Bramma would have been balanced better by a lower draw speed or by having only the option of manually airbursting its arrows (like a penta), while cutting back a bit on visual effects (Mirage EXISTS and people is unable of toning down annoying color combinations).

All of this stinks.

Why? Because these changes have been done AFTER  all potential interest and hype about Kuva Lich system died out (due to being a boring grindfest).

This leads to think that it was the usual "bait and swithc" again.

I have jet to try my Bramma with its new limitations, probably the changes (except the ammo one) won't be too bad, still it's how it's being done that irks me: bad decisions doubling up on lack of foretought and a stupid, mulish perseverance in not doubling back and redo things right!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 6 Minuten schrieb Bandileros:

And then we set with an interval of 2.5 seconds 3 tablets to replenish ammunition, and 30 seconds can shoot from Brumm more often than before.

Or we increase the selection of ammunition using abilities and mods, and again spam.(2)

This is the most illogical solution to the problem of a too high rate of fire that I could imagine.(1)

1.Again you only look at a part of the problem.

2. Then we have no problems with nerf, or not.

3. Like I said, we can nerf rate of fire and ammunition capacity. I will still play that weapon

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 минут назад, (PS4)Svenx13 сказал:

It may be illogical for you, but it works. 

Example acceltra

No, this is not so. Instead of changing the weapon in such a way as to stop spam attacks, they changed it so that they ceased to use it at all.

This is not a solution to the problem, it is a way to get away from solving the problem - just make the weapon non-playable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (PS4)Rook117 said:

This I agree with.

 

It is also too easily accessible especially when ANYONE can just buy it without putting in any work.

 

Thats kinda cheap.

What do you mean? people still have to vanquish the lich they bought with the weapon. The only part they skipped was finding the weapon, and let's be honest, that doesn't require that much time nor huge effort, just run Cassini until it pops. I agree it was easily accessible but they should have fixed that way earlier with the MR requirement actually being put to use and not just for shows. People having access to "endgame"-strong weapons shortly after they join the game trivializing all the progress, when most new players struggle with regular loadouts during their first run of star chart.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

What do you mean? people still have to vanquish the lich they bought with the weapon. The only part they skipped was finding the weapon, and let's be honest, that doesn't require that much time nor huge effort, just run Cassini until it pops. I agree it was easily accessible but they should have fixed that way earlier with the MR requirement actually being put to use and not just for shows. People having access to "endgame"-strong weapons shortly after they join the game trivializing all the progress, when most new players struggle with regular loadouts during their first run of star chart.

Well the thing is people realize they can get their squad to kill the lich for them, and they just only have to go in for the finishers.

People be leeching.

Elementary my dear Watson.

Edited by (PS4)Rook117
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-06-09 at 5:10 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are doing a comprehensive review of this issue that players are raising to see what the next steps are. 

Well what if u alr hv kuva weapons but don’t reach the MR requirement can u keep it because I helped my friend get 5 kuva weapons and it would be a shame for him to lose them

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 минуты назад, TrueShinobi1335 сказал:

Well what if u alr hv kuva weapons but don’t reach the MR requirement can u keep it because I helped my friend get 5 kuva weapons and it would be a shame for him to lose them

Why now does he need this weapon? It does not cost the occupied slot of the main weapon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dissappointment. If they would give as good weapons, not so many player would use the Bramma. But you know what, for you guys it still wouldn't matter. You always nerf the few usable weapons, and think we might will use the tons of crappy ones what you offer instead. But nope. You introduced the pure RNG bullsh*t riven mods, what nothing else but pain in the *rse, and seeing how many player sells it for thousends of platinums its threatening. You onces said, don't want to put slot machin in the game, but somehow you still managed to find a place for them. Nice, moneyfriendly, pay 2 win environment, in a game what not even pvp focused. GJ

My suggestion, don't nerf the good weapons, but give us more alternatives what we could use!

Edited by slindagor
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-06-09 at 7:27 AM, (XB1)Avant Solace said:

I'll be honest. All this sounds good, except the ammo cut. All it really does is just strongarm people into using Carrier to make up the difference. Damage and AoE reduction is fine, but making people scramble for a single ammo drop is a bit much.

People *should* be using Vigilante Supplies in the bramma's exilus slot to enchance crits anyway if they want the most from their bramma... Ammo problems solved.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kuva weapons should be the useful endgame weapons, but still u need to use a magnifying glass to find good ones between them. After we lost bramma, u might need a microscope

If the reason would be only the visual effect, like u stated, u've only removed the visual effects. Nope, just admit it, the Russians took over, and you don't want to give us anything fun, especially not for free 😉

Edited by slindagor
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

I assure you despair knows no bounds

I wouldn't know, cuz after 2000 hours I still haven't gotten [Despair] 

edit:

Does it even exist? Is despair really a weapon? So many ironies in here. 

Edited by -Sandman
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, slindagor said:

Kuva weapons should be the useful endgame weapons, but still u need to use a magnifying glass to find good ones between them. After we lost bramma, u might need a microscope

If the reason would be only the visual effect, like u stated, u've only removed the visual effects. Nope, just admit it, the Russians took over, and you don't want to give us anything fun, especially not for free 😉

I would love to see DE publish the actual usage charts and Bramma related sales charts and see how it correlates to these changes. I will gladly remove my tin foil hat then. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 минут назад, -Sandman сказал:

I wouldn't know, cuz after 2000 hours I still haven't gotten [Despair] 

edit:

Does it even exist? Is despair really a weapon? So many ironies in here. 

What is the conversation about?
What is despair?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bandileros said:

What is the conversation about?
What is despair?

Is what you should feel God forbid you use the "F" word around here. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, -Sandman said:

I wouldn't know, cuz after 2000 hours I still haven't gotten [Despair] 

edit:

Does it even exist? Is despair really a weapon? So many ironies in here. 

Spoiler

Q74tjSk.png

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • [DE]Rebecca locked, unlocked and unpinned this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...