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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


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Just now, Mara said:

Damage values : untouched. Actually made a bit better due to a falloff reduction.
Range : still absurdly large compared to other launchers.
Ammo changes irrelevant. Ammo capacity has always had ways to be circumvented, even before exilus slots made it a complete non-issue.

This community : kUvA brAMMa iS dEAd

... I don't know what I expected from you guys.

You never know these days.

Don't worry. If my 4 years on this forum have taught me anything, it's that people will find any reason to complain.

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Posted (edited)

OK let's recap : no self dmg + bramma = havoc and mayem and we all can agree on that.

The thing is...3/4 yrs ago when tonkor dealt no self dmg, we faced the same situation and you guys at DE HQ decided to give tonkor self dmg to put an end to mindless kamikaze spam in ever damn mission...you also changed simulor due to the interaction with mirage for the same reason.

Years later you remove self dmg and replace it with a staggering counterpart that 1/3 of the frames can ignore due to augments and abilities and the other 2/3 can work around with primed sure footed.

You brought back the same thing you wanted to get rid of, or tone down years ago with the aforementioned changes, plain and simple.

No offence but it just makes me laugh.

You should have kept self dmg on explosive launcher weapons only, for balance purposes and remove it from weapons like Komorex etc, and i don't really see why guns like cyanex and company had to have that stagger effect in the first place.

In a way you're the cause of this "evil" bramma thing, and in 2020 you just went back to square one aka the days tonkor and simulor mirage were some of the most cancerous spammy things to have in a mission.

You can nerf the bramma all you want, the core issue that led to this mindless bramma spam is the removal of self dmg end of story.

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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Stats wise this feels a bit of an overkill. Heres an idea: instead of fall-off, bramma gets a ramp-up, its optimal damage is from a far away distance; basically like exodia contagion. This way the bramma fans will get to play the sharpshooter way but also need to keep moving to not get damaged.

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8 minutes ago, -TSA-KenSasaki said:

List of stuff DE killed:

Zenistar, Catchmoon, Nearly all Shootguns, Amps, Arcanes, Statuses like Gas, and now Bramma.
Whats next?

Catchmoon,Shotguns and arcanes are far from dead and honestly, I doubt these changes will kill the Bramma

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Excellent change. Reduces the Bramma spam, without reducing its effectiveness. Reduces the visual clutter, without reducing the damage (too much). Good players will hardly notice any loss in effectiveness. 

Great change. Can't wait for the rivers of salt though.

 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

I think I would have rather seen an increase in draw speed then to hit it from every angle but that. A slower rate of fire would have allowed it to retain its feeling of power, fit its aesthetic and bring down its DPS.

The reduced visual clutter will be nice for what it is worth but I am not sure these changes really fit the Bramma.

Edited by xRufus7x
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17 minutes ago, (XB1)Avant Solace said:

I'll be honest. All this sounds good, except the ammo cut. All it really does is just strongarm people into using Carrier to make up the difference. Damage and AoE reduction is fine, but making people scramble for a single ammo drop is a bit much.

I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling that way to be completely honest with you!

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:

Save some for me, Zim. I wanna get in on these tears as soon as possible. 

We will all share in this bounty!

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2 minutes ago, xRufus7x said:

Catchmoon,Shotguns and arcanes are far from dead and honestly, I doubt these changes will kill the Bramma

Haha, surely you must know by now, if anything is nerfed in any way, it's completely and 100% dead.

Even if the nerf is totally justified and makes the thing in question an actual relevant power level. (FWIW as well, shotguns were not really nerfed in terms of practicality either, almost all of them function better than before)

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Shhhhh.

be quiet cut it out GIF

They're fully aware of it. Which is they they keep buffing melee every few updates to more and more, but since there is a S#&$load of broken melee weapons now (Range, melee combo and have fun destroying everything easier than any Bramma could do), people gets to pick which one they like so there is not a really popular weapon by landslide.

Instead of buffing other weapons to make them more competitive compared to Bramma (which would require more efforts) yet again they pick the LAZIEST option and the most mediocre one while we are at it to just nerf the popular thingy.

Why make other Archwing more useful when you can just nerf Blink, why make other defensive frames as good as Limbos when you can simply nerf Limbo and so on, it has been Dev's mindset since this game exists and it #*!%ing sucks.

 

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@[DE]RebeccaWhat about lengthening the refire time (longer draw and reload times) on the Bramma to be more in line with that of other single-shot launchers like the Tonkor? The issue with the Bramma is not just the amount of damage it does but the speed at which it does this damage. A longer refire time would encourage players to be more judicious with their use of the weapon more so than a reduced ammo pool would, since ammo mutation mods negate the pressure of a small ammo pool and fit in the exilus slot. Mods that affect refire time, however, do not fit in the exilus slot and therefore must displace damage mods, forcing players to make a tradeoff between speed and damage.

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38 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

So the changes are:

1: 1/3 ammo reserves (ammo mutation should still make it viable)

2: -58% cluster bombs

3: +29% cluster bomb explosion range PER bomb, increasing the total radius by +87%

4: Wait, so they had the potential of doing NO damage at the edges, but now the minimum is 50%? Wow, nice.

As other tenno said, the main part of the damage comes from the main explosion, and the rest is more of bonus. The actual total damage of the cluster bombs may be smaller at direct impact, but have the potential of doing more damage if it only grazes the mobs. Hm...

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Gerade eben schrieb The-Almighty:

They're fully aware of it. Which is they they keep buffing melee every few updates to more and more, but since there is a S#&$load of broken melee weapons now (Range, melee combo and have fun destroying everything easier than any Bramma could do), people gets to pick which one they like so there is not a really popular weapon by landslide.

Instead of buffing other weapons to make them more competitive compared to Bramma (which would require more efforts) yet again they pick the LAZIEST option and the most mediocre one while we are at it to just nerf the popular thingy.

Why make other Archwing more useful when you can just nerf Blink, why make other defensive frames as good as Limbos when you can simply nerf Limbo and so on, it has been Dev's mindset since this game exists and it #*!%ing sucks.

 

I didn't think I'd get a serious response since i figured it was pretty clear I wasn't serious either.

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Posted (edited)

The weapon was inefficient to begin with so this changes nothing, all i'm sad is that the weapon is now visually inferior to what it was, i like warframe when all my screen is just effects.

Edited by KIREEK
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I really don't see how this is going to change anything at all. Ok, maybe now you have to slap ammo mutation in the exilus slot.

The clusters are less but each one covers a bigger area and deals MORE damage. If anything outside of the ammo change it's a buff/sidegrade.

This is still going to be far and beyond stronger than any weapon should be and these changes won't do anything to touch that.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, (XB1)LostSpark13 said:

Grey has a point, why instead of nerfing the most used wouldn't you work on buffing/reworking the least used weapons?

Because:

1) Weapons already got a balance pass in 2018 with their overall damage being tied to the expected damage ballpark of their MR bracket. They are already where DE want them.

2) Outliers are the ones to be reigned in to fit in with the power of the rest based on the weapon's MR bracket. Doing the opposite by bringing the rest to outlier levels results in the rest of the game (Including enemies) needing to be rebalanced around the outliers, effectively nerfing the entire game as a whole when enemies are buffed as a result of everything but the outlier getting adjusted. You can hear this straight from Pablo's mouth at this timestamp in which he presents the example of the implication of, for example, raising the Rubico to the level of the Bramma and what the Rubico's buffs would need to entail so it can compete against the Bramma.

3) Least used weapons, if they are low MR weapons, are expected to remain in low usage because an MR1 weapon MUST NOT compete with an MR15 weapon. This is true for every single stats-based game from Final Fantasy to Diablo to Borderlands to Nioh.

Edited by Jarriaga
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bramma has been a "Go to" weapon suggested by everyone and it getting too much attention....glad this nerf is a thing althought it abit too much nerf, but then again...it still a powerful bow as far as this nerf goes.

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Seems a bit overkill imo, yes it needs a nerf but not this heavy, The amount of cluster projectiles I can understand, then there is less AOE damage so you can't nuke like half the map but the only part of this nerf I would change is the ammo capacity to 10, it doesn't make sense for the ammo cap to be nerfed massively when the AOE is getting a nerf at the same time. Balancing in this game hasn't worked for a long time. If a weapon has a high usage (even without a riven) then it gets nerfed to the point of where it is practically useless, Synoid Simular is one example. Every time there is a weapon favoured with the community, some nerf will come to it where the usage drops massively, I feel like it will always be that way. Instead of nerfing practically every aspect of weapons that have a high usage, nerf parts of it. Do it gradually, nerf one part, see the statistics, nerf again if needed and so on.

 

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42 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are doing a comprehensive review of this issue that players are raising to see what the next steps are. 

Can we just tie the lichs to a later quest (Chains of Harrow maybe) and to completing all the nodes in the Kuva Fortress.  Give some space to make it so the lichs are more of a response than just instant thing.  

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7 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

The weapon was inefficient to begin with

you are either trolling or a noob. sorry, but Bramma was not at all inefficient.

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