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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


[DE]Rebecca

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Just now, kwlingo said:

Im so happy the usage rate has fallen down. I can finally see the enemies now. Im surprised Im not blind and have gone deaf.

Relish the moment of reprieve you have before all the people who spammed this weapon who have stopping using it out of spite or uninstalled the game because this change has "gone too far" come back and realize its still better than 90% of weapons.

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12 minutes ago, Kayll said:

Yes they have,they've decided it is still too strong and will be removing all explosive properties from the weapon. 🙂

I mean take a look at how the Simulor functions now. They increased damage but reduced number of allow orbs. Which is a balance to the damage but doesn't compare to Bramma damage.

The Bramma is still the one shot queen. Id be okay if they only gave a passive to the explosives on head shots only. If not, random firing should do a half damage and explosive radius.

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4 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

I mean take a look at how the Simulor functions now. They increased damage but reduced number of allow orbs. Which is a balance to the damage but doesn't compare to Bramma damage.

The Bramma is still the one shot queen. Id be okay if they only gave a passive to the explosives on head shots only. If not, random firing should do a half damage and explosive radius.

An Augment already exist that does precisely that for Ivara, and I'm pretty sure if they did that there would be an even bigger stink claiming it was unusable,personally id love something like that since I like when you are rewarded for hitting headshots.

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2 minutes ago, Kayll said:

An Augment already exist that does precisely that for Ivara, and I'm pretty sure if they did that there would be an even bigger stink claiming it was unusable,personally id love something like that since I like when you are rewarded for hitting headshots.

Yes like the passive on kuva chakkhurr. Benefit with skill. Same as how they implemented head shots to shield gating.

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I’m so upset because of such an attitude towards the majority because of the minority, that is, I understand correctly that any nerfed can be either surrendered or rebalanced, this policy of the developers doesn’t suit me at all, especially the PVE game, I spent so much time mining bramma kuva and forms and riven and now what can I count on in this game?

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Fatheless:

I’m so upset because of such an attitude towards the majority because of the minority, that is, I understand correctly that any nerfed can be either surrendered or rebalanced, this policy of the developers doesn’t suit me at all, especially the PVE game, I spent so much time mining bramma kuva and forms and riven and now what can I count on in this game?

Mmhh playing a primary tombfinger 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Svenx13 said:

Mmhh playing a primary tombfinger 

Don't count on it, with DE mentality it will get nerfed soon.

Kuva Bramma is still an utter failure on DE side to understand how the game plays and what we want.

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10 hours ago, Fatheless said:

I’m so upset because of such an attitude towards the majority because of the minority, that is, I understand correctly that any nerfed can be either surrendered or rebalanced, this policy of the developers doesn’t suit me at all, especially the PVE game, I spent so much time mining bramma kuva and forms and riven and now what can I count on in this game?

Exactly how I feel, and it's not the 1st time (ogris, staticor etc). So shall I spend timy time and money to create a new weapon myself waiting when will it be nerfed? No, thanks.

11 hours ago, kwlingo said:

I mean take a look at how the Simulor functions now. They increased damage but reduced number of allow orbs. Which is a balance to the damage but doesn't compare to Bramma damage.

The Bramma is still the one shot queen. Id be okay if they only gave a passive to the explosives on head shots only. If not, random firing should do a half damage and explosive radius.

In small rooms, yes, but u still struggle finding ammo, even with ammo mutation, without it, forget the weapon. But in open world, where the bramma rly shined, just forget the weapon completely. And don't forget, it's just the beginning of the nerf wave, there'll be another patch in one or two weeks, and the weapon is going to lose the damage as well, with slower projectile speed, or aiming.

It's nothing to do with balance. What balance? Where is the balance in this game?
Oh, and if it is so disturbing visually, why don't they do anything with limbo, why was operation scarlet is a annoyance for the eyes? I'm not mushroom, I don't like the darkness and stuff.

DE, show us the statistics! I don't want to use popular weapons again, waiting for ur next so called "balance".

By the way balance? Doesnt bother u at all, dear developer team, that u put the pure RNG and slot machine system called riven card, what people sell and buy for 10k plats? Where is the balance in the riven mechanics?

On 2020-06-14 at 3:44 PM, VeraElena said:
  1. It is not a single player PVE game.
    When 3 people run around with the Bramma (or nuke frames like Saryn) on a Neo Interception , the best thing you can do is go afk. There is nothing for anyone to do anymore when everyone runs around with incredibly overpowered room clearers. Where is the fun in sitting around and waiting?
    "If you do not like what others play, do not spoil their joy. They don’t touch you, you don’t touch them." is simply not true.
    You 'having fun' ruins the fun of the other people in the party. (and don't say "just play solo", that is just stupid.)
  2. Weapon variety is important.
    Everyone using the same stuff is just simply boring. People get tired of it, eventually leaving the game due to boredom.
    Hell, even the Bramma users are eventually going to be bored because the game is too easy.
    Just look at Scarlet Spear and all the people complaining about how boring it was when they themselves were the ones that made it boring by abusing a Limbo specifically built for the mission. You can not trust that type of player to downgrade themselves in order for them or the rest of the team to have fun.

1. Dude, is it our fault, that u don't use useful warframes? No it isn't, neither is our fault that u couldn't have useful warframes and weapons, and u praise the new weaps, because thats the only thing u can play with. The player who never goes above lvl50, doesn't need anything in this game, even spitting on the mobs can kill them, so how could u form a relevant judgement when u never been in high tier

2. Ruining the weapons cause the same effect, much much quicker. And to add something to your scarlet comment, they were complaining because grinding is boring. And scarlet spear, it was a annoyance to the eyes, as well as limbo, what is visually disturbing and annoying as well, but they wont touch it, no way they would ever. Who created the effects? May that be the players who played the game?

I don't care about the bramma, I care about my energy, money and time I spent in it, and where is the guarantee, it won't happen again? It happened several time in this game, with lots of weapons I liked and used, and I'm fed with it. I could make a bet with u, I give u 2 years (if u have the persistence, what I sincerely doubt), and you'll be on the same page with me 😎 It's not balance, it's just short-sighted thinking.

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Remember that basically nothing in any online game belongs to you, don't be foolish, DE could take everything from you account for any reason whatsoever, or no reason at all.
The game is their personal space and you are allowed to participate in it,but don't get it twisted and say anything in it belongs to you because it doesn't.
 

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1 hour ago, slindagor said:

dear developer team, that u put the pure RNG and slot machine system called riven card, what people sell and buy for 10k plats? Where is the balance in the riven mechanics?

Well if someone spent 10k plat on a riven, more than likely they used play to purchase a Kuva Bramma at 60% also. No one told players to buy Rivens. The same issue over and over again. If you are planning on buying expensive Rivens, always be prepared that the usability may change at any given moment.

Buy at your own risk.

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the amount of QQ over a small nerf for a weapon that was/is clearly overtuned is hilarious.

it needs to be nerfed a tad more, ngl. less clusters already means less total damage potential but its still a straight zarr upgrade and trivializes more weapons than just zarr...hell if it was just zarr that wouldnt mean much anymore.

also balance wise its always a bad idea to copy/paste a weapon with simply better stats, because thats what bramma is: copy/paste zarr with better stats made a bow.

its literally zarr 2.0 for no reason. is it that difficult to create weapons with interesting new gimmicks ? i really wonder because there are so many ways to make weapons unique but then we get overtuned copies of older weapons instead....

nerf it until its "balanced" but either bramma will be the overused sillyness it was/is or it will be on zarrs level of power and noone will really use it because then its literally a zarr variant instead of an upgrade.

if a weapon gets a gimmick then pls give it a unique gimmick and not copy/paste from another one. thats not healthy for balance, nor is it interesting to be like "oh...so its basically a zarr made good rn, i see ! thanks !"

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On 2020-06-12 at 7:22 AM, djdnqn said:

all the changes to meta weaponds are bad, we formed we give our love to this weapond.... feel like loose our time and efford everytime DE see what people use and really like to players, come on guys! ear the community and dedicated players whit high MR and hours played on the game. peace

Any strong or over power weapons are bound to be needed you should know this when investing into them that’s just how this game works

On 2020-06-08 at 10:04 PM, Umbranoir said:

Another one bites the dust.

{KILLER QUEEN} Bites za dusto                         {Kuva   Bramma} Bites the dust

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2 hours ago, Bandileros said:

If all people felt this, then the game would be abandoned.
They abandoned, trampled and spat on her cold corpse.

I played various MMOs for a long time, but I never came across so obvious mockery.
Developers sometimes made soft changes. Not enough to make a weapon beloved by many completely useless.

This is already too much. Go through all the red lines. Absolute neglect of the community of players.

I consider the things on the account to be mine. They are obtained through my work. My money. Of my time. So the developer decided. Therefore, if he manages the things that people received, having spent a lot of energy on them, this is disastrous.

In many MMOs, things can be sold for real money. Doesn't that make them a digital value? Like cryptocurrency?

In some MMOs, when a developer needs a nerf, he creates an additional version of a game item. And players cannot get the old version. Players with an old version of the item simply leave the game. With time. Those who remain - 0.01% of the total number of owners of an unspoiled item. And they no longer affect anything.

This is called a humane, cultural, civilized attitude towards the community of players.

Nerfing an item to a state of complete abandonment by most players is disgusting.

If the developer does not want to show his neglect of the players - he should not do so.
Make a change - yes. "balance" the item to the state of garbage - no.

I think the argument "well they have a right to take away anything.... it says so in the..." and "Well no-one forced you so spend 10000 platinum on..." or "that's just how this game works" really shows a lack of depth of understanding of the whole issue. The Because I Can argument is one from a position of ignorance and typically a default from anyone incapable of a salient rebuttal. Of course, they can, of course that's how it is now; but none of that precludes improvement and discussions around it. 

Its not unreasonable that someone will get bored after 100 runs of repeating the same thing, so why keeping doing the same thing over and over? For many this game is about collecting. And why not? There are so many items to be had. Over the years I would dare say that many users have been given a legitimate expectation that devoting time and money into acquisition of content would give the player the satisfaction of having and using that content in a manner they see fit. This is exacerbated when the content is of a higher level and harder (or more laborious) to acquire. Based on the amount of times this has happened in the past and the amount of threads like this, its quite clear that DE does not do a good job of informing this to its customers. Some players (mostly new ones) actually feel like they have been duped and then after, defecated on by the users who come to say "oh well its your own fault". One step further, after this toxic cycle has played out itself, they still don't do a good job of neutralizing the corrosiveness it has created in the community (to the point where it feels like they are condoning it). The result of this is many players quietly leaving and no matter which lens you focus on this issue though, that is bad for business. 

 

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20 minutes ago, -Sandman said:

I think the argument "well they have a right to take away anything.... it says so in the..." and "Well no-one forced you so spend 10000 platinum on..." or "that's just how this game works" really shows a lack of depth of understanding of the whole issue. The Because I Can argument is one from a position of ignorance and typically a default from anyone incapable of a salient rebuttal. Of course, they can, of course that's how it is now; but none of that precludes improvement and discussions around it. 

The reason I give this argument because there is nothing else you can offer to something who says "this is my weapon,no one can touch it because its mine".
Any discussion about the whys and the reasons for such changes is swiftly relegated to their brains trashcan,no consideration done about what was said at all.
Arguing with them is completely futile cause they stand on a statement that is irrational,so all you can say at the end of the day is that they are entitled to nothing here and that's just the truth of the matter.

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5 minutes ago, Kayll said:

The reason I give this argument because there is nothing else you can offer to something who says "this is my weapon,no one can touch it because its mine".
Any discussion about the whys and the reasons for such changes is swiftly relegated to their brains trashcan,no consideration done about what was said at all.
Arguing with them is completely futile cause they stand on a statement that is irrational,so all you can say at the end of the day is that they are entitled to nothing here and that's just the truth of the matter.

This actually only makes it worse in my experience. Using this big stick approach as a persuasive argument is never effective. Even the most seemingly unmovable characters can be convinced if your suasion is clever enough. 

I think in any event, the vast majority of the posters here are well aware of the obvious and never implied that DE was acting ultra vires; so saying they have no right to express dissatisfaction by virtue of DE being master is not a very powerful argument.   

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On 2020-06-15 at 9:41 PM, -Sandman said:

This actually only makes it worse in my experience. Using this big stick approach as a persuasive argument is never effective. Even the most seemingly unmovable characters can be convinced if your suasion is clever enough. 

I think in any event, the vast majority of the posters here are well aware of the obvious and never implied that DE was acting ultra vires; so saying they have no right to express dissatisfaction by virtue of DE being master is not a very powerful argument.   

I think we should formulate our requirements for DE.
 To regain what was taken from us.

Requirements must be realistic, non-toxic to other players, feasible, correct.

I suggest this:

1. Return the old version of the weapon to those who had it BEFORE the nerf.
2. Nerf visual effects if they interfere.
3. Stop listening to those who are unhappy with random teammates. And the fact that strangers do not adapt to his playing style.

On 2020-06-08 at 10:01 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno -

Until then, Tenno! 

It seems you did not understand what you did. The weapon that I considered mine was ruined. Without sufficient rationale.

Let’s take me as an example.

I did not play with the bromma with BRIGHT EFFECTS, which some complain about.
I did not have an advantage in damage when playing with a brahma. (And in sarin almost always)
I did not play with random teammates.

I had a voice chat to coordinate with other players.

In general, I and my friends who played together with me had absolutely no problems with weapons. But then we found out that some people were complaining and saying that the brahma was too strong.

Nobody prevented them from making such an assembly with which they would be interested in playing. Nobody prevented them from coordinating their activities with teammates.

Why did they come out and complain to you, and then demanded that they nerf their weapons?

This is not PvE with 100 player cards.
This is not PvP.
This is a cooperative.

I think the problem of those who complained about the “TOO STRONG” brama is not in the brama, but that they did not know how to coordinate their actions.
And also selfishness. They decided that they were the main ones, that strangers should adapt their playing style to them.

What prevented you from creating a new weapon and replacing it with a brahma? To change weapons smoothly. So that the players who invested a lot of real money in this weapon and the hours and days of their lives do not feel cheated?

This is PvE, this is a 4-player Co-op, like Borderlands or L4D, and not a full-fledged mass game in which more than 70 players fight on one map at a time.

If I interfered with someone - they could tell about it.

I did not notice the advantage in damage. Playing on Sarina, I applied much more than with a brahma, easily.

I played many MMO games, I came across many cases of nerf.

When the developer made a mistake and playing with too strong weapons became uninteresting.
When players killed all the mobs on the map and others did not get experience and loot because of this.
When playing PvP and players who received too powerful weapons did not leave others even a chance of resistance.

There was not a single similar case.

Your game is based on receiving rewards. Farm Grind. Donation. And the reward.

After this incident, I lost confidence in the game as a whole. I no longer feel that I want to get something - because everything can be ruined.

You must understand that the weapons in the single player game, which is obtained in the course of the plot and what is in your game, is a big difference. But this is bad. Especially if you want to maintain a good attitude of the person from whom you took something.

I ask you to change your mind. Make a version of the new bramma, say, MK2 bramma, with 5 rounds, but return the one that was earlier to the one who had it.

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The game developer simply does not want to understand that it is gradually turning a fun game with a company into a boring and uninteresting thing. This game was clearly different from others and attracted attention with its unusualness and lore. As a result, we get instead of pleasure the complication of one of the most difficult genres of games, moreover, according to the complaint of players who do not know how to play. It is easy for them to destroy the weak enemy, and they are not able to kill the strong. They never rose above 500 lvl mobs and do not know that a brahma is useless on these lvl without a carefully selected group.

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I agree with you by 1000%.

I’ve been trying to get one of the developers to pay attention to me and answer for the third day. So they explain to me - like in PvE, where all the loot and experience are common, can one player “steal” a kill from another?

This is not WoW, where the loot belongs to the one who killed and to no one else.

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If one weapon dominates 66% plus of all players using it (and its relatively simple to acquire) then that needs to be resolved as it makes for a boring experience.

Diversity is one of the strong points of this game and different frames/weapons is important to keep people interested 'oh that looks cool ill go get one of them'

I'd advocate bringing all weapons up to that power level or close or just 'nice alternatives' but I it seems the easier 'lets nerf the outlier' was chosen instead sadly.

 

 

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Buffing stuff up to the strongest weapon is a mistake, especially if that weapon is an outlier, because then every weapon becomes functionally the same. Furthermore, if something stronger comes out and we keep buffing stuff up to the strongest weapon, power creep just gets more and more insane. It's already really stupid.

What makes more sense is for DE to consider a power level they want players to be at, and then build stuff around that. Bring stuff up to that level, and nerf anything above it (and more importantly, don't release stuff that will need nerfing in the future).

The fact that Warframe has so many interesting weapons but it's all about AoE explosions and long-range melees is already a massive failure, let's not make it worse.

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5 часов назад, Evsknight сказал:

If one weapon dominates 66% plus of all players using it (and its relatively simple to acquire) then that needs to be resolved as it makes for a boring experience.

Diversity is one of the strong points of this game and different frames/weapons is important to keep people interested 'oh that looks cool ill go get one of them'

I'd advocate bringing all weapons up to that power level or close or just 'nice alternatives' but I it seems the easier 'lets nerf the outlier' was chosen instead sadly.

 

 

I said earlier: you need to reduce the rate of fire. The brahma is too big.

But of course, instead of solving the problem, it’s easier to make problematic weapons non-usable.

 

This is the problem.

For some, playing with a weapon is boring because it is strong.
For others it’s fun because it’s strong.

Warframe is not a hardcore game. In the end, people have mods - everyone could customize their weapons the way he wanted them to be pleased.

Users have already convincingly proven that there are many weapons in the warframe that are more powerful than brahms. So one cannot say that the brahma is too powerful - if someone does not like too much damage - no one forced them to make such a powerful weapon.

This is half-cheat.

Do you understand?

Those who have fun playing with a half-cheat can play with it.

Those who are not having fun can play without it.
There are still mods.

To say that players interfere with others is absurd. The developer initially solved this problem. Synthesis and loot get everything. A player, even if he plays with Godmode and endless ammunition, could not prevent others.

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On 2020-06-16 at 11:49 AM, Evsknight said:

If one weapon dominates 66% plus of all players using it (and its relatively simple to acquire) then that needs to be resolved as it makes for a boring experience.

Well, thats your opinion/experience. 😉

It made me always smile when I wasn't the only bramminator in the team.

Nerfing Bramma just means for me back to melee only. 

Nerfed Bramma is the real boring. But I will still keep it and try to spam now as much as possible showing "respect" for this "great" Nerf. 😛

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