Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.

[Bandileros]

I was thinking. Your nerf's problem is that the weapons in the game are too easy to get.

 Therefore, anyone who spends a little time killing a lich (a little compared to how much time we spend in the game) can get powerful weapons.

Powerful weapons in the game need, need like air. After all, this is exactly what we are striving for. Players play to become better than others. Farm. They pay money.

If you remove it ...

You know, people work for money. They want to buy something good for themselves - an expensive car, a beautiful house, and so on. If they were told that all the houses are the same, all the cars are the same, reduced to "balance", then any interest in working would be lost.

If there is no difference - why pay more?
Do you want money?

For what?

This is the point in games to have a powerful weapon. It makes people strive to receive it. If you remove the reward - the motivation will also disappear. And then the desire to work will disappear.

I conclude that for balance it is necessary not to reduce the attractiveness of the award, but to increase the difficulty of receiving it.

Your game is VERY VERY out of balance.
Because most weapons can be copied in a clan, or bought in a store, or easily knocked out from the right relics. Which are very cheap.

The abyss merchant, again, with his prime mods, the night wave, it all comes out too easily. And so you unbalanced your game.

And now trying to create some kind of balance - spoil the weapon, that is, the reward, because the balance between the difficulty of obtaining and the value of the reward has been violated.

This is the MOST balance that should be in any PvE!

Not a balance between weapons. Not a balance between players. This game is about farming. Hard work and rewards.

You did the most wrong of all - you decided to ruin the reward. Which offended those who already received it, and spoiled the mood for those who wanted to receive it.

No need to talk about the balance between the players - in this game, loot and experience is shared between all players.
 No need to talk about too powerful weapons - in this game there is a more powerful weapon. No need to talk about the overwhelming AOE - compared to some warframe capabilities - this is a weak AOE.

You have broken the balance between the difficulty of obtaining and the value of the reward. This is the first. And instead of changing the basis - making it difficult to get powerful weapons, you decided to spoil the content that really pleased the players.

I will insist that you should reconsider your approach. To return a very powerful and effective weapon of lychees and complicate their killing by 10-20 times so that only those players who spend a lot of time on it play with it. And not by chance, by mistake, received.

Let's say ... Make not 3 mod on parason, but 6.
Increase the number of requiem mods from 8 to 64.

Then get a lich weapon - it will be a real ACHIEVEMENT. And it will be a truly valuable REWARD.

This is exactly what you need to do to improve your balance.

[addamrobin2]

at this point just delete the whole kuva lich and kuva weapons since you don't even understand how or what your game rules are

it's a painfully broken RNG grind system, you release a broken weapon and left it for months and then act surprised when people actually use them, and then proceed to punish players that worked so hard with the broken RNG grind

[Bandileros]

2 минуты назад, addamrobin2 сказал:

at this point just delete the whole kuva lich and kuva weapons

it's a painfully broken RNG grind system, you release a broken weapon and left it for months and then act surprised when people actually use them, and then proceed to punish players that worked so hard with the broken RNG grind

No, you need to increase the complexity of the lich.
Make it very difficult.

A lich weapon is an endgame weapon, it must be very strong. Otherwise, it makes no sense to create any new endgame content - if its rewards are the same as everything you can buy in the store.
It will not make sense to create anything at all if you strive to remove the difference.

The balance between weapons is needed only in PvP. So that the players fought using the maximum of their skill, but were equal in their chances.

Like in chess.

This game is like a job. The higher your position, the more you can receive as a reward. If there is no reward, there will be no point in trying.

The game will lose its meaning.

The complexity of the lich must be proportional to the power of the weapon, but the weapon must be powerful. So much so that all endgame players should use only it.
I’m talking about all the weapons of the lich, and not some specific one.

Players buy their first weapon in a store.
Then they copy the drawings in the clan dojo.

And in the end, they get to the most complex Endgame content and get the MOST powerful weapon in the game with lychee.

The developer who created the update with kuva lichs made a conceptual mistake. This weapon should be better than usual in everything.
This weapon must be obtained with a huge expenditure of energy.

Like prime, only much more powerful.
Each of these weapons must be unique, with unique visual effects and unique damage effects.
It must be a real Endgame, so difficult to obtain that to get all the Kuva-weapons, you need to spend more than a year of playing the warframe all the time. So that getting each weapon requires at least 300 game hours.

At first they made weapons too affordable.
Then ALL began to receive it, not even reaching rank 20.
Then they decided to make a balance.

It's like breaking one leg, for balance, breaking yourself the other. Instead of curing the first.

And then they wonder why some players are unhappy ...

[Evsknight]

3 hours ago, sorcer3r said:

It made me always smile when I wasn't the only bramminator in the team.

I'm surprised your face muscles aren't aching from smiling in every team 😂

[ZaGameboy]

Buff the weapon back to its original. Make it harder to acquire. Not borderline impossible as it was with that harrow part but just 30% harder of what it is now.

[Bandileros]

24 минуты назад, ZaGameboy сказал:

Buff the weapon back to its original. Make it harder to acquire. Not borderline impossible as it was with that harrow part but just 30% harder of what it is now.

I suggest changing the approach a bit.
Then it turns out that the old owners of the brahma will be in an advantageous position compared to the new ones.

We need to return the old weapons.
Remove elemental damage.
Making the acquisition of new weapons (for merging) is much more difficult.

To bring the brahma to high elemental damage, the old owners will have to exert almost as much power as the new ones.

It will be fair. In relation to the old players with the drama. In relation to new players.

And because of the high complexity, they will not receive it simply “for the collection”.

[Kayll]

The thing is that everyone with a brain is just using Vigilante Supplies now (they were before),the people complaining will just get the nerfed switched to another aspect of the weapon that you can't recoup,aka fire rate,or pure damage,then we will have a whole other wave of complaints demanding they change it back.

All you have to do is put one mod on that sits in the least intrusive slot on your weapon and the worst or the nerf is negated.

[Bandileros]

4 минуты назад, Kayll сказал:

The thing is that everyone with a brain is just using Vigilante Supplies now (they were before),the people complaining will just get the nerfed switched to another aspect of the weapon that you can't recoup,aka fire rate,or pure damage,then we will have a whole other wave of complaints demanding they change it back.

All you have to do is put one mod on that sits in the least intrusive slot on your weapon and the worst or the nerf is negated.

No. The nerf remains and is still very annoying. Even with 9 rounds. Even with a mod for creating ammunition.

[StarGeezerTim]

3 hours ago, Kayll said:

The thing is that everyone with a brain is just using Vigilante Supplies now (they were before),the people complaining will just get the nerfed switched to another aspect of the weapon that you can't recoup,aka fire rate,or pure damage,then we will have a whole other wave of complaints demanding they change it back.

All you have to do is put one mod on that sits in the least intrusive slot on your weapon and the worst or the nerf is negated.

But it's not really the same, is it? And as an aside, your condescension ("...everyone with a brain...") is really unbecoming. 

I was onboard with a balancing fix. Limiting the number of bomblettes, I get. Limiting the number of maximum rounds, I get (although I think they may have been a touch aggressive, but I'll concede that for now for the sake of argument.) Limiting the amount of ammo returned, regardless of how many methods you have stacked, is a bridge too far. So taking Carrier with a maxed Ammo Case, an ammo mutation mod, all return one round regardless of how many rounds you actually collect. How is that fair? The only real remedy is dropping ammo pizzas constantly, and while it's not a huge financial burden in game to do so, it's a practicality burden than users of other primaries don't have to endure for the most part.

Bramma is now basically a broken weapon, a mere shell of its former self. I've long since reached a point in life where I approach games to have fun. If a game, or an aspect of a game, ceases being fun then I cease playing that aspect of the game (or the game in its entirety.) For now, the Bramma sits unused in my inventory. Until/unless DE makes a change in ammo pickup returns, it'll either stay there indefinitely or I'll just eventually trash it for the weapon slot. It's effectively useless as a primary anymore. I get way more use out of my Nukor and Shildeg, and I'm already concerned one or both of them will eventually be similarly "balanced." This doesn't exactly fill players like me with confidence, that you can grind for a weapon, grind even more to level it, and at any point have it "adjusted" at whim regardless of the time investment (to say nothing of plat if the truly obsessed players hunted down and obtained riven mods on the open market.) 

And for now, if I want to get my boom on, I've been using the new Stahlta. Ironically, the particle effects in that weapon are on par or slightly worse than the Bramma. So what have they actually accomplished? If I really want to be obnoxious (I'm not usually, but I'm good at when I need to be), I can always make the effects some really over-the-top bright yellow/orange and have people who have their bloom turned up too high suddenly start screaming they can't see anything. What can I say, I'm easily amused. 😜

[Kayll]

18 minutes ago, StarGeezerTim said:

And for now, if I want to get my boom on, I've been using the new Stahlta. Ironically, the particle effects in that weapon are on par or slightly worse than the Bramma. So what have they actually accomplished? If I really want to be obnoxious (I'm not usually, but I'm good at when I need to be), I can always make the effects some really over-the-top bright yellow/orange and have people who have their bloom turned up too high suddenly start screaming they can't see anything. What can I say, I'm easily amused. 😜

Stahlta fires one explosion after a 1.6 second charge.
Bramma fired one explosion plus 7 more after a .4 seconds charge.
That's kind of a big difference no?

[Bandileros]

30 минут назад, StarGeezerTim сказал:

But it's not really the same, is it? And as an aside, your condescension ("...everyone with a brain...") is really unbecoming. 
And for now, if I want to get my boom on, I've been using the new Stahlta. Ironically, the particle effects in that weapon are on par or slightly worse than the Bramma. So what have they actually accomplished? If I really want to be obnoxious (I'm not usually, but I'm good at when I need to be), I can always make the effects some really over-the-top bright yellow/orange and have people who have their bloom turned up too high suddenly start screaming they can't see anything. What can I say, I'm easily amused. 😜

What do you think, maybe you should try to reach out to the developers? Explain to them that this is a bad way for the nerf, and if they do not want to offend many players with their decisions - do you need to change the balance?

I already wrote above. In PvE, there is no balance between the players, nor between the player and the mob, if the mob levels can rise endlessly. In PvE, there must be a balance between the difficulty of obtaining weapons and the value of the reward. To reward really pleased.
Heavy duty weapons are logical and correct, because they are endgame content.

One could simply complicate the receipt of the brahma, and all the weapons of the lich. So that players spend 100-300 hours to get it, and not 10-20. This will weed out 80% of those who do not need this weapon.

It used to be the funniest weapon in the game. It was fun to play. But after the nerf ...

You should not treat players like that. Increase the difficulty of the quest - yes, nerf the reward - no. It's like breaking one leg, breaking another. This is a bad, wrong balance.

I will return to the warframe only after the warframe returns my bramma to me.

[StarGeezerTim]

1 hour ago, Kayll said:

Stahlta fires one explosion after a 1.6 second charge.
Bramma fired one explosion plus 7 more after a .4 seconds charge.
That's kind of a big difference no?

It seems there are more particles with the Stahlta, and they tend to linger a bit longer (this may be subjective, it just seems it from my perspective.) For the record, I never had any problem with the Bramma slogging my rig, and I don't have the most cutting edge graphics card running either. The folks who likely were having issues are running Ultra on everything, have bloom turned up to max, etc. Heck, a 2080 TI is gonna chug a bit under those circumstances. 

[Turbo_Trotldyt_R-Zone_64]

Well, with such low ammo, Bramma is now yet another mr fodder. Why waste our time like that? Always with something new.
I really would like to start an investigation who in glob's name asks for all these nerfs. As nobody ever asks for my opinion.
Might as well reduce all frames and weapons into generic, nerf frame abilities to zero, so in the end WF would be a generic, boring shooter like CS, with nothing unique, except broken hopes.

[twirlandswirl]

I was very frustrated at first, but honestly, I put on Ammo Drum, of all things (took out fire rate, since that only exacerbated the problems) and really, it's not bad. The only real peeve I still have - and I don't know if this is intentional or a bug - but Vigilante Supplies doesn't not convert ammo unless my Bramma is out. Like, if I'm using my secondary or meleeing, my reserve ammo will not refill.

[Kayll]

19 minutes ago, twirlandswirl said:

I was very frustrated at first, but honestly, I put on Ammo Drum, of all things (took out fire rate, since that only exacerbated the problems) and really, it's not bad. The only real peeve I still have - and I don't know if this is intentional or a bug - but Vigilante Supplies doesn't not convert ammo unless my Bramma is out. Like, if I'm using my secondary or meleeing, my reserve ammo will not refill.

That is how Vigilante Supplies works, the Primary weapon musted be equiped and unless your secondary is full then it wont convert the secondary ammo into primary

[twirlandswirl]

Huh, guess I just never noticed. Don't usually run things with such a small reserve.

[Evsknight]

Bramma was over represented/used.

On 2020-06-16 at 3:41 PM, Bandileros said:

<snip>

Huh? You quoted me and then agreed with what I said and went off on a complete tangent about half-cheat, hardcore gaming and synthesis/god mode. I'm confused on your point you are trying to make (or of it is even meant to be to me?)

DE stated that KB is over represented.

"It has quickly taken the place at the top of the usage charts - which is where it should be given its acquisition - but the degree of dominance (about 3 times more popular than anything else) is not something we feel is good for the primary weapon Arsenal options."

So you have to ask why? - but you know why - it's far better than anything else for general play.

Why is it better? Damage, aoe capability, spread, with a mod it practically had infinite ammo.  Ignoring the comments concerning on flashy lights, noise and so on, from a raw 'why do people use it' perspective - its because its powerful and pretty easy to obtain, making many other weapons which are far more difficult to attain pointless to gather other than MR fodder.

Yes there are weapons in other situations which are better but for the core part of the game, KB is the number 1 'go to' for most players who have one.

DE wanted to resolve that and while I do not agree with how they did it it certainly seems to have worked.

[_Miyagisan_]

OMG bad aim AOE spammers still crying over this? LOL 😂😂😂

[(PSN)The_AFKing]

Why didn't they just change the ridiculous charge time from 0.40 (which is 3 times faster than the Lenz) to a 1.50? 

Two mod slots required to get the charge rate a bit down and makes it so you use up those slots which otherwise would've had damage buffs. 

This fixes the spamming AND the insane damage. 

[Akimbo]

This "nerf" achieved nothing more than creating a minor inconvenience. If anything Bramma is stronger now with less aim required due to the improved fall off damage over a larger AoE.

[Talinthis]

18 minutes ago, Akimbo said:

This "nerf" achieved nothing more than creating a minor inconvenience. If anything Bramma is stronger now with less aim required due to the improved fall off damage over a larger AoE.

it achieved a nicer time for anyone else trying to play the game. i couldnt see #*!% all before and i notice a large difference now. this change is fantastic! the large amount of constant explosions made it extremely difficult if you used any weapon that required a modicum of aiming.

If self damage was here it wouldnt even be a problem. Funny how that happened.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

Even though I live the Lenz Life and loved seeing the Jat Kittag come down on the Bramma, I would love to see less nerfs on the weapon and more changes on Kuva Liches.

For the power that Kuva Weapons have, the Liches should be more powerful / threatening.

[Bandileros]

55 минут назад, (XB1)HollowCube987 сказал:

Even though I live the Lenz Life and loved seeing the Jat Kittag come down on the Bramma, I would love to see less nerfs on the weapon and more changes on Kuva Liches.

For the power that Kuva Weapons have, the Liches should be more powerful / threatening.

If serious. Kuva weapon was conceived as an endgame weapon, which would be difficult to receive and pump.

As a result, game designers have made it too easy to receive and improve.

Do not rejoice if the developer breaks his own game. Because if they decide to cut the tree on which they are sitting, sooner or later it will collapse with them.
It is only a matter of time, the process has already begun.

What is the point of spending so much power on the farm, if sooner or later, they get to the point that you want to get and get nerfed.

The game has become meaningless. It’s just that some will understand it later, but now they don’t understand yet. Too early.

[ThePolarTitan]

This has to be one of the worst nerfs I have seen to date. You want to nerf its ammo, ok. You want to nerf its damage, ok. You want to nerf its range, ok. You want to nerf its radial damage, ok. But don't nerf EVERYTHING. You literally made this practically useless. You did this with most of the secondaries now that the secondaries in the game do half or even less then half of their normal operating efficiency in terms of pure damage, status, crit, or any margin you have displayed. Why on earth do we want to use this weapon then other than xp at this point. 

[Nee4o]

В 19.06.2020 в 01:18, (XB1)HollowCube987 сказал:

Even though I live the Lenz Life and loved seeing the Jat Kittag come down on the Bramma, I would love to see less nerfs on the weapon and more changes on Kuva Liches.

For the power that Kuva Weapons have, the Liches should be more powerful / threatening.

Yeah, I completely agree with you. I wondered why EVERYONE has a bramma Kuva? Cuz it`s too easy to farm.