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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


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4 minutes ago, Vajet said:

Bow playable?!?! Nerf it to the ground! Bow useless again.

I mean I know the drill and don't really care because I can always adapt. I'd like to know the intention though. Balancing in this game is obviously weird. There are dozens of useless weapons in this game. So there will always be a few favorites. Just looking at the numbers of weapons used and nerfing them will not stop this from happening. I'd rather see new strong weapons or buffed existing weapons every now and then to keep it interesting instead of nerfing whatever pops up as popular on your data sheets. There are too many other games where developers follow that path (Path of Exile being a prime example).

All prime versions of all bows and the Daikyu are perfectly playable and scale to pretty high levels, please tone down the drama.

The weapon did deserve a nerf, of course not one as big as this. But the post itself mentions that they are looking at feedback to adjust the changes in accordance to what they players feel confortable with. 

People have already addessed some of the other problems with the Kuva Weapons, in easy accessibility to players that shouldn't have enough level to even breathe the same air as these weapons are located at.

PLease, more constructive criticism and more ideas on how to adjust the proposal.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

This accomplishes nothing. Now people will go back to their Nuke Frames and Ignis to experience the same thing the old bramma does. Will people cry about that next? Find out next time on Dragon Ball Z!
 

More reason for a matchmaking preference.

 

Ignis doesn't nearly do as much raw damage in the higher tier missions, and nuke frames require an entire warframe change, instead of a single primary weapon change. The bramma is  both flexible and viable while demanding less than the setups you mentioned. But you're right, I doubt the nerfs will change that much, as the weapon still seems pretty strong. 

Edited by Hallowieners
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3 minutes ago, gundamaster said:

for me ammunition is the least of the problems, the rest is worrying...  every time they deal with weapon damage to make it unusable, like what happened in the synoid that remains ruined today, even with its buff, it doesn't even come close to what it was ..

 

Yeah! It feels like they're going too far with this. ALL Kuva weapons should be on the same level: close to, or AT the top of the tier, because of how hard they are to get. I predict we'll see way less Bramma usage after this, and also a lot less people doing Liches because the best Kuva weapon is being nerfed so hard. The least they could do is give the Bramma something new to balance all the nerfing...

Otherwise it'll end up looking less like an awesome weapon used by an enemy resurrected to kill specifically YOU and more like this.Nerf N-Strike Stratobow Bow

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The ammo nerf is a bit much..I'd have gone down to 7 (half-way split dropping the 0.5 remainder).
The rest is...fair.
The Boom bow WAS overpowered.  Seriously! and this is from someone who used it in a number of missions (though not as a main go-to).
I may not totally like the nerf hammer, but it is understandable on THIS particular weapon and I am surprised it took this long to actually get whumped by said hammer of nerfing.

So... as long as you are ballancing the ammo reserve and clusters with wider area of effect per boom... I will hold off on the salt. 😎

Look forwards to snagging the Deadlock Protocol launched weapons.  Papa needs a new gunblade.🤘😁🤘

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3 minutes ago, CodeVauban said:

And Lenz reigns superior once again.

Sorry but even with the aforementioned changes Kuva Bramma will still be powerful as heck. More powerful than Lenz at least. 

Anyway I talked a lot about people complaining time to offer my advice, 

If you want to go with these changes I suggest 4 instead of 3 bomblets and to add the Lenz ammo conversion mechanic to it. The rest sounds ok, the weapon could clear rooms before, that was really over done, let people have more focused damage in compensation for the loss in range.

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Mastery rank doesn't represent much in the terms of players being prepared or not for enemies; if someone hates seeing folk trying to make frugal use of their starting platinum and slots, maybe they should be playing private instead of public. That said, if a player is capable of beating their lich with mk-1 gear, they are obviously able to handle it, even if that handling it is by running in teams either willing to run with them and cover for their starter gear, or unwilling to run missions without public backup themselves. As far as the weapon itself, its a crowd clearer, and is currently (before these stated nerfs) doing that. It doesn't have the innate ammo mutation of the Lenz, or the higher ammo maxes of some other weapons; this is the same deals that happened with the Kulstar in the past and the Zarr after that.

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"With the Bramma now dead, what weapon will the community cry about next? Find out in the next Forum post!" 

I don't care about the changes, it was a matter of time. But the amount of joy and cheers over a nerf as if this was THAT important is sad 🤣

I have to say tho, the now smaller reserve ammo pool is just annoying, doesn't really change anything about how the weapon is use and we have melee weapon that are miles better than any other weapon and don't cost anything to use. 

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3 minutes ago, SanguineTheJester said:

 

Yeah! It feels like they're going too far with this. ALL Kuva weapons should be on the same level: close to, or AT the top of the tier, because of how hard they are to get. I predict we'll see way less Bramma usage after this, and also a lot less people doing Liches because the best Kuva weapon is being nerfed so hard. The least they could do is give the Bramma something new to balance all the nerfing...

Otherwise it'll end up looking less like an awesome weapon used by an enemy resurrected to kill specifically YOU and more like this.Nerf N-Strike Stratobow Bow

no, it will still be very strong, and they will nerf it, besides making his riven unusable until it is also useless ...

 

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Thanks a lot. Ive been in many missions being the only one without a Bramma x). When I hear the sound I know this is a Bramma and I try to get as far away as possible in general.

Maybe these changes may need a tweak later, lets wait for feedback.

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1 hour ago, -TSA-KenSasaki said:

We Farm a heavy Grind from Liches to get this Weapon, its not like *here the BP und build it* no we need to farm for it and for what?

Liches aren't a massive grind anymore (never were tbh).

You can pick the Kuva Weapon you want and it comes pre-built for you.

You instantly get a kuva weapon after playing for ~3h.

Most weapons have a 12h-24h crafting time.

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1 hour ago, Amazerath said:

Self damage used to take care of that just fine and encourage more skillful gameplay. Now we'll have to nerf things around a bad decision.

Strongly agree. I was extremely against self-damage going away because this was the inevitable outcome, and here we are. I'm hoping some middle ground can be found after the new Bramma gets some gameplay, because I feel like this nerf went too far. But still, it is the definite fallout of removing self damage.

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14 minutes ago, Hallowieners said:

Ignis doesn't nearly do as much raw damage in the higher tier missions, and nuke frames require an entire warframe change, instead of a single primary weapon change

The reason I mentioned Ignis and it's variant is because it accomplishes what bramma excels at. Large AoE. Ignis has high status potential to counter that low base damage.

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il y a 13 minutes, SanguineTheJester a dit :

the best Kuva weapon is being nerfed so hard.

Didn't see the mention of a Kuva Drakgoon nerf.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-06-08 at 11:51 PM, anarchy753 said:

I really don't see how this is going to change anything at all. Ok, maybe now you have to slap ammo mutation in the exilus slot.

The clusters are less but each one covers a bigger area and deals MORE damage. If anything outside of the ammo change it's a buff/sidegrade.

This is still going to be far and beyond stronger than any weapon should be and these changes won't do anything to touch that.

When something gets nerfed and given compensation buffs at the same time then it's neither a buff or a nerf, it's an adjustment.

Trying to be as non biased as possible. These changes don't completely overkill the weapon nor break it even further, it just tones down the effortlessly spam usage. The main damage comes from the main explosion crit, which seems to be left untouched.
The cluster bombs did way less damage and are the main cause of annoyance in staggers, and the only way to prevent those are limited to using warframes you might not enjoy (or simply don't like aesthetics, I personally use some warframes just by how they look and not what they do because I can carry my weight with weapons) or a mod that's locked behind a minimum 400 days reward that you can't speed farm. They are only really useful when you're doing high level missions and enemies somehow don't instantly die, so more cluster bombs means more chances of applying hunter munitions bleed. If they reduce the amount of cluster bombs, that's gonna be better for the average bramma spammer (I must admit I've been using it lately because it's actually fun).
The ammo part might seem like they overkilled it, but we can counter this by using exilus mod for ammo converter or a carrier. I've seen people in this thread complaining that all it does is force people to use these instead of other pets but, isn't it the philosophy of warframe's power creep anyway? you sacrifice things to be able to use stronger ones. Like warframe builds. Rarely a warframe gets to have a balanced build without sacrificing stats. You want more range? you sacrifice power. You want more power to counter the range sacrifice? you sacrifice efficiency, and so on. This is not different, considering how powerful the Bramma is, having to sacrifice something for it doesn't sound so bad.

We will have to wait for the changes to actually judge the weapon, because everyone knows change is scary for most people and they panic on announces. And if you have the means to work around the changes to still be powerful, then we're blowing things out of proportion here.

Edited by (PS4)lumen2ne1
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First Catchmoon, now Kuva Bramma. I think the one who design weapons' usage need to think like a player, play test it etc. If this mindset continues, there will be more such cases to follow. For all we know, I have a feeling it will happen to one of the Primary Kitguns... 

If someone cannot do the job properly, it's time someone else take over.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups

I think you guys should consider doing the ammo reduction first and see how that starts to trend before limiting arrow pickups.

I think the other changes are good! They seem to balance out well, meaning minor overall change in efficacy (though it is a little downward), but with the bonus of better game performance. But limiting the ammo that much runs the risk of a hard-to-acquire weapon being so kneecapped that it's barely used.

On a related note, regarding nerfs in general: I think it looks and works better to take things incrementally and explain the plan going forward if the first solution doesn't work. For example, you could say "our plan is to limit the ammo max, and if it's still super used, then we'll lower ammo pickups and see if that works, and if that doesn't work, we'll go back to the drawing board". What something like that does is demonstrate forethought. To me, it says that you recognize people have fun with the weapon, but there's also a problem that needs to be addressed - it sucks, but it happens. You want to minimize the impact on people while finding a solution, so you take it step by step. And you give people time to adjust and prepare, mentally and emotionally, if worse comes to worse.

You don't have to wait a long while for data to come in, either. If you're aiming for a particular usage stat goal and the numbers aren't trending in that direction (especially off the bat, because numbers will likely dip faster on-release and slow down or come up a few weeks after!), it can indicate it needs more to it. Again: if you demonstrate that planning and explain that metric, people then know. Transparency helps.

For buffs, it's a pleasant surprise to get bonuses hot-dropped on our favourite goodies all at once. But for nerfs, players need time to adjust, and if you take nerfs piecemeal, you can give them that time to adjust and find the sweet spot without breaking so many hearts - metaphorically speaking. IMO, that just looks better. It makes it look like you care about player investments, even if hard choices still have to be made.

TL;DR: Dump buffs on us all at once, go nuts on those because surprise buffs are fun, but take nerfs slower, step-by-step, and outline plans.

Edited by Tyreaus
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I'm a little 'eh' on the ammo thing, mostly because Vigilante Supplies says 'hi'.  Maybe knock it to six arrows instead, or seven (which would put it on par with the Lenz).  The rest of this I can agree with.

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Why is the draw time untouched? If it took twice as long to charge each shot, then we wouldn't be seeing nearly as much of a problem, without invalidating kuva bramma machinegun gauss builds.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are doing a comprehensive review of this issue that players are raising to see what the next steps are. 

I hope it does get fixed, but I hope not in the way of "Mastery Locking" it.

My Fiancee, new to PC gaming, Mastery Rank 8 with Ivara Prime, Paris Prime, Kuva Nukor, and Skiatati can handle Kuva Lichs no problem, and sees it as an alternative end-game to just "leveling up." I think people tend to forget how fast Warframe can actually be run through. 

Seeing how she actually really enjoys farming Lich's and has no issues with it, I'd hate to see some Mastery Lock be added so she can no longer access it. It just isn't the answer.

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LOL it was only a matter of time. I had a feeling this would happen.

I only just returned 3 weeks ago from a major case of burnout and got a 58% toxin bramma, and ill admit ITS WAY TOO OP! Sorties eazy, arby drones 1-2 shot, its quite disgusting how strong the kuva bramma is.

As for the changes i agree with all of them and players can easily adjust to the changes.

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are changing it so that:

- It has a smaller reserve ammo (15 to 5), and gains fewer arrows from ammo pickups - This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere
- Fewer cluster bombs are produced on impact (from 7 to 3) - Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.
- Increased cluster projectile radial attack size from 2.7m to 3.5m
- Reduced cluster projectile fall off from 100% to 50% - Fewer explosive fragments, but they cover more area and generally do more damage

1st change is great. as of the current state of the bramma i never run out of ammo and can spam explosions everywhere. like you said "This is to encourage players to aim the bow deliberately at crowds of enemies and not fire it wildly everywhere" As for ammo ether run carrier for use the exlius mod slot for vigilante supply's or arrow mutation and just be more mindful ammo issue solved.

For the other changes these are good they may need some testing tho. but the implementation is good, and coincides with the first change well. with the lower ammo count your going to be more focused on groups of enemys which will mean you'l have the same dps as before.

also the reduced clusters will be good for performance. i play on a older laptop that can be a bit laggy at time and i did feel small lag spikes from the bramma's current explosions. also switch players will be have the same effect and their consoles wont have to render as much increasing the performance as well.

Over all i feel like these are good changes for someone who is one of the many that uses this weapon. 

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