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Kuva Bramma Changes: Explanation and Timeline.


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5 minutes ago, Kouden said:

the day will come when players had enough with the nerfs and then quit in masses bcs they wont take this crap anymore. and then DE will go down and blame themselfes for it and wish they had not done it at all. mark my words tenno... it will happen

No it won't... People have been saying the like for years (and in some cases they make it sound like a threat) but in fact it is what is keeping this game alive.

Every change, addition, new quest, will make at least part of this game fresh, and therefor a reason to return to it.

If warframe were to be "finished" 3 years ago, we wouldn't have a game left to play today.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

4. Reduce fall off - So people won't use it as much...the goal of this nerf

Do you realize that Fall Off at 100% is actually bad? Reducing it to 50% means that at the max distance it deals 50% of damage instead of... zero.

Yes, same as 3 that's actually a buff.

So, you got change to ammo reserves which could be easily amended with an exilus mod and largely forgotten. You also get less than a half bombles which looks like a huge nerf, but they are dealing damage in a larger area and their damage is higher at a distance which is a good counter-buff.

Edited by lainverse
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54 minutes ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

When something gets nerfed and given compensation buffs at the same time then it's neither a buff or a nerf, it's an adjustment.

Trying to be as non biased as possible. These change's don't completely overkill the weapon nor break it even further, it just tones down the effortlessly spam usage. The main damage comes from the main explosion crit, which seems to be left untouched.
The cluster bombs did way less damage and are the main cause of annoyance in staggers, and the only way to prevent those are limited to using warframes you might not enjoy (or simply don't like aesthetics, I personally use some warframes just by how they look and not what they do because I can carry my weight with weapons) or a mod that's locked behind a minimum 400 days reward that you can't speed farm. They are only really useful when you're doing high level missions and enemies somehow don't instantly die, so more cluster bombs means more chances of applying hunter munitions bleed. If they reduce the amount of cluster bombs, that's gonna be better for the average bramma spammer (I must admit I've been using it lately because it's actually fun).
The ammo part might seem like they overkilled it, but we can counter this by using exilus mod for ammo converter or a carrier. I've seen people in this thread complaining that all it does is force people to use these instead of other pets but, isn't it the philosophy of warframe's power creep anyway? you sacrifice things to be able to use stronger ones. Like warframe builds. Rarely a warframe gets to have a balanced build without sacrificing stats. You want more range? you sacrifice power. You want more power to counter the range sacrifice? you sacrifice efficiency, and so on. This is not different, considering how powerful the Bramma is, having to sacrifice something for it doesn't sound so bad.

We will have to wait for the changes to actually judge the weapon, because everyone knows change is scary for most people and they panic on announces. And if you have the means to work around the changes to still be powerful, then we're blowing things out of proportion here.

Except that the mod you have to "sacrifice" things for fits neatly in the slot where almost nothing of value goes anyway.

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Thanks so much for the changes, Hopefully the Bramma isn't as overbearing as it once was. (if there ever wasn't 1 of them in a mission it was 2 or even 3 instead)
Here's to hoping to more improvements are made to the self-damage/self-stagger situation which I feel plays a huge role in the strength that the Bramma had,since it effected a lot more than just explosive weapons.

 

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Honestly my only real issue with this is twofold: one, why does DE balance stuff based on the number of players using the weapon? If the players use your weapon, doesn't that mean you succeeded in making a fun, rewarding weapon? Why does having too many players use a new weapon constitute a problem? And at what point is the number of players using a weapon deemed "acceptable"? That's my biggest issue, it's like the Catchmoon, sure it was strong, but the reason it got nerfed was because too many people used it. That doesn't make sense. If I enjoy the Bramma after the nerf, and many other people do too, are you just going to nerf it again? 

The second issue is, while I've already stated earlier that I think the nerf won't kill the weapon, I still don't understand why guns in this game are not allowed to be as strong as melee weapons. The reason Bramma was so popular was that it was a gunplay alternative to using melee to quickly murder everything. But now that ability has been somewhat diminished. Why? Why aren't guns allowed to have strong AOE in a game all about killing mass amounts of enemies? There's a reason melee reigns supreme and that's the big reason, high damage in a decent area of effect.

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Now can we get a removal on the stupid flip backwards mechanic from the staticor? it never did self damage before and that mechanic makes it dam near unsable with how just annoying it is

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Increase the charge time for the bow so that you have to deliberately aim it at a group of enemies and can't just quickly fire off a shot. Fits the philosophy of the new design pretty well, and would make it more comparable to something like the Lenz.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Reduces the overwhelming AOE potential somewhat but also makes the Bramma less visually busy. Players have said that the many many explosions produced by Bramma are hard to see through.

???

i have not really noticed this even when i detonate a bramma on my face let alone when i use it for actual game play

this seems like a problem that exists on a significant number of warframe abilitys already

something something using exceedingly bright colours  can make just about anything with particles blinding

from memory bastile/vortex is one of the worse offenders

 

honestly this just feels like you want to nerf the weapon because it is used to much and will just continue till it sees no usage like you did with the tonkor

(removed it bouncing allies - okay this one was fair)

(removed it bouncing the user - this was part of the identity of the release weapon)

(reduced it's clip from 2 to 1)

(nerfed it's damage)

(from memory it's damage was nerfed a second time)

(given full self damage - not doing this was part of the weapons identity on release)

(given an arming range that makes it truly unusable - worst part about the arming range is that + projectile speed makes it worse)

(removal of it's unique targeting system - admittedly it was not a very accurate system but it was cool for it to have it)

 

speaking of explosive weapons can we remove their arming distance on the few that have it please

from memory this is only the tonkor and the corinth secondary fire

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4 minutes ago, lesstalkmorerokk said:

Increase the charge time for the bow so that you have to deliberately aim it at a group of enemies and can't just quickly fire off a shot. Fits the philosophy of the new design pretty well, and would make it more comparable to something like the Lenz.

Hell no! What if I want to slap 3 arrows at the same target? Longer charge will reduce my fire rate for no reason and beside that anything with charge over 0.5s is absolutely awful to use unless you have to aim for a headshot... and Kuva Bramma is not a weapon for dealing headshots, is it?

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(Idc about the bramma, but this nerfing everything that has potential in any aspect in the game is meh...)
WHY THE HEKK, C'MON DE.............. Warframe is  P V E  game, the nerf of a weapon that actually fun to use makes no sense why are u killing your own game in the last few years? Nerfing must be stopped, I don't mind finetunes, but holly S#&$ you are doing this same mistake again and again make something insanely good, fun and powerful and then letting the players invest time and effort and resources, THEN BOOOOOOM SLAPPING them in the face. If its too good because of its power, give it a higher mastery cap maybe? Oh, no that's horrible all of the new players will kill themself bc of the slow boring no fun allowed progression and that's bad for you bc your entire community slowly leave your slowly doomed game. The grind is high and the fun is lower and lower cuz you killing every aspects of it... Can u f.... decide finally if u want to make a diablo like killing machine game or a  simple shooter? Do u know what should you do if something is fun and good? Make more of those weapons, that actually fun, and if its powerful give it high mr cap. + normal matchmaking system for those crying players who don't like playing with nuke frame/weapons in their team and boom everybody happy. You could also make a smaller mr version of bramma with these new stats with smaller dmg, and keep the old for higher mr-s. I don't even know why it isn't a thing in warframe, same mechanic weapons but different stats... less effective in lower mr-s, so they could try out some good and fun thing, and maybe they wouldn't be bored by playing&lvling the 58th braton  like simple weapon.
I liked this game, bc of the mods weapons/frames gives the freedom to find your style and play it, be powerful after your grind your mind away, and that would be insanly cool if we could decide how we would want to play our mission, like some game option to play without ability punishing enemies and mechanics(at least if u make something punishing give us something that can counter it if we are smart or skilled enough, like snipers/bows can shot trough nullfiers, energy drain eximus line of sight maybe refund the energy on kill? )... I don't care if this doesn't give any resource or rewards but god i miss the old Warframe where you were a demi-god and not a S#&$ty tin-can that has no power on some enemies, and in the worst case scenario: nerfed to the ground... I know you wanted to make us something challenge, but these are more annoying and not hard, no fun.

I also miss the old events, where you tried to actually kill us with insane mission conditions( like capped max energy, high enemy starting lvl, only manic spawn), instead of annoying ability preventing mechanics to give us something challenging, forcing us to make special event build for that.
Nowadays every part of every event is monkey proof.....
Make more fun weapons, not nerf the ones that actually has potential. & buff already existing ones like Harpak, Buzlok, etc. those weapons that has something interesting in them...

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Just now, lainverse said:

Hell no! What if I want to slap 3 arrows at the same target? Longer charge will reduce my fire rate for no reason and beside that anything with charge over 0.5s is absolutely awful to use unless you have to aim for a headshot... and Kuva Bramma is not a weapon for dealing headshots, is it?

If you're intending to put 3 arrows in the same target, you might be using the Bramma wrong.

Also, "for no reason"? The "reason" is that the Bramma is grossly overpowered and this is largely owed to its huge damage and its insanely quick chargeup time. The alternative is a damage nerf which feels even worse.

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17 minutes ago, anarchy753 said:

Except that the mod you have to "sacrifice" things for fits neatly in the slot where almost nothing of value goes anyway.

primed sure footed?

one of the worse primed mods in existence imo

oh the 400 days reward is primed vigor and i don't see how that is relevant to this at all
though it is also a pretty meh primed mod mainly because it has shields to be honest though it might be decent on hildryn

or can you only get primed surefooted from the second reward that gives a primed mod with the new system

either way wasn't the problem with both surefooted and cautious shot that the stagger lasted about as long as the knockdown it replaced? if not longer

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Just now, .durandle. said:

primed sure footed?

one of the worse primed mods in existence imo

oh the 400 days reward is primed vigor and i don't see how that is relevant to this at all
though it is also a pretty meh primed mod mainly because it has shields to be honest though it might be decent on hildryn

or can you only get primed surefooted from the second reward that gives a primed mod with the new system

either way wasn't the problem with both surefooted and cautious shot that the stagger lasted about as long as the knockdown it replaced? if not longer

Ammo mutation.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, TheRealSpy23 said:

...

What is a point of a weapon which makes every other weapon in that category largely useless?

Of course it's easy to say: buff everything else!

But, consider this: They buff every other weapon in the game, but now enemies die way too fast! To fix this they'll buff every enemy in the game... and now we end up in the same situation as if we'd only nerf one single overpowered weapon, but we came to it in the most roundabout way. Besides, buffing everything else will likely go wrong since you can't just increase damage of every gun by 50% and expect them to perform 50% better due to various mechanics on these guns.

Edited by lainverse
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1 minute ago, anarchy753 said:

Ammo mutation.

i said one of the worst

probably just behind ammo mutation but there might be other that i am forgetting about

 

like faction damage mods

they are technically some of the best mods in the game but too annoying to bother with

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3 minutes ago, lainverse said:

What is a point of a weapon which makes every other weapon in that category largely useless?

Of course it's easy to say: buff everything else!

But, consider this: they buff every other weapon, but now enemies die way to fast from everything else. To fix this they'll buff every enemy in the game... and now we end up in the same situation as if we'd only nerf one single overpowered weapon, but we came to it in the most roundabout way.

pretty sure half the reason it is used so much is it is about the only usable explosive and most people like explosive weapons

and single target weapons don't feel very good to use in this game basically ever

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Yes,

You just marked changing it to 50% as a negative even though it's a buff. Only first two positions are nerfs and one of them is ridiculously easy to circumvent.

Beside that drop in usage may actually save current Bramma riven disposition. Otherwise it will drop from 0.8 to 0.5-0.6 in the next update.

Edited by lainverse
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, .durandle. said:

pretty sure half the reason it is used so much is it is about the only usable explosive and most people like explosive weapons

and single target weapons don't feel very good to use in this game basically ever

With these changes I actually expect it to remain useful explosive weapon. Just a bit less strong and less spammy. You don't even need to spam it everywhere to kill everything in the first palce.

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

...

DE should probably "buff" Lenz, though, by reducing delay before the explosion since with removal of self-damage it serves no purpose and only make it inconvenient to use. That's the main reason it can't compete with Bramma.

Edited by lainverse
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Posted (edited)

You don't nerf the weapon to the ground just because it's too OP, you buff the others so they can do what it does!

Or even maybe make a balance between the op weapon and other weapons, not nerf it so hard that no one wanna use it anymore.

This is wrong.

Edited by AnJetCat
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I personally like the change to the amount of explosions displayed on screen because often the emission colors from explosions especially in Mirages hands would be hard to see through.  
 

In any game there is an expectation of power when it comes to particular weapon types or categories such as snipers, rocket/explosive weapons, burst rifles, shotguns, pistols, etc. Some games lean on certain types more then others.  For example, some games may put a heavy emphasis on shotguns doing a ton of damage since the idea is that they a short range pellet based weapons while other games emphasizes on snipers being able to devastate their opponent since it requires a single well placed shot. I am one that thinks explosive weapons should have an advantage when it come to spreading damage. That does not necessarily mean I want all explosive weapons to one shot mobs.  
 

One possible way to counteract this I think is allowing enemy’s to have a chance to adapt on a per wave or spawn cycle basis.  When it comes to enemy spawning there could be a chance on a per wave basis that enemy’s have a chance of counteracting such as coming in heavily armored protecting them from X physical damage type/s such as explosive damage. Not complete immunity but rather increased resistance for that spawn group. Perhaps the same thing can apply to other style of attacks.  

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