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Taiepii

Multiple Forma idea

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Posted (edited)

We progressively got multiple update that lead me to a new idea how Forma should work in the game. That could improve a word DE keep bragging about, "Variety" in Warframe.

 

Here is an example of the problem :

 

I for multiple reason decide to build my Frame with multiple Madurai forma so that I can test her game play with lots of Strength.

unknown.png

I have fun an all but once I decide to go something different. Like being more tank. Here is the result. Just not possible to use  ( -10/74 capacity ) .

unknown.png

And we have this problem with MANY frame.

The only solution at the moment is to build a 2nd Frame independently.

 

Moreover recently we saw our self with the possibility to do up to 6 configuration of our Frame. But how can we do 6 different build if we are highly limited on the forma polarity already ?

In the end those 6 configuration are closely same one with only a tiny change each time.

 

So how we could improve that ? Has it already been though of ?

We know it been though of since we got the Aura forma, which consume us 4 regular forma but give that opportunity to use whichever polarity mod.

We also had the Stance forma for melee weapon. That act the same way as the Aura forma.

But when it come to regular slot, I'm asking myself "How we would deal with Umbra forma" ?

 

So here is my solution that I would call fair. And would help new player in their mistake as much as it would please endgame player that love to do multiple testing on their frame.

 

So thing is simple. We put Forma like we always do and get the forma on the slot we need

Here is my slot with Madurai forma.

Forma.png

And when if come to change it. Instead of changing it, each Forma would be added on side of previous one.

Here is my slot with Madurai AND Naramon forma

Forma_Multiple.png

This way it will open up a way greater "variety" of choice in term of our build.

 

And it add multiple advantage :
 -Lower cost since we will apply only the necessary amount of Forma instead of a full 4 forma each time, when we will barely use the 4 of them ( Never saw anyone using Zenurik polarity over the Aura "Brief Respite" ).

-It will reduce the frustration of new player once they realize they choose the wrong forma. Cause at least they might use the polarity back someday.

-Umbra Forma will work the same. And so it close the problem to the question if we want to do a build without using Umbra mod. And or the question to "Should we include umbra to a universal polarity mod ?"

-It will give endgame player the full access to an immense variety of build choice without heavily investing in a complete different Frame and maybe extra load out. And honestly THAT will be a new game experience.

-Dev wont have to create a new unique resource and/or mission to access to a new "Universal Forma"

-And it wont be broken as we will still have to farm for those Forma ( 1 a day ).

-It open up new variety of build as well for Weapon since we are limited on capacity too. Especially since Exilus slot been added.

 

And I honestly don't see disadvantage in this system.

 

Thank for reading. Hopefully DE will have a though on this

Edited by Taiepii
Update screenshot link
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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't mind something like this. I'll edit this post in like an hour with screenshots, but my Nova prime looks similar to your example above. I have an aura forma and umbral forma on her for my slowva. However the other two builds have incorrect polarities. They fit, but still slightly bothers me. 

My Nova already has 70 forma on (I'm bored so I'm slowly doing 100 forma). I would happily use more forma to do what you showed.

 

Edit: So I forgot to post when I logged in. Realistically an exilus forma would be the most useful to me in this example especially considering there's 3 different polarities across 3 builds. At least more useful than stance forma ever will be. 

My main, which is what I revolved my forma around. 

8LkVu7P.png

My second build, kind of for portals, usually used for a change to go a little faster.

Mg5E4We.png

Speed build kind... Don't really use but I messed around seeing what it would be like.

IGdI316.png

Edited by --Brandt--
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Thank for the support.

Nice logo over the config

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I have to agree, the more you forma a frame or weapon, generally, the less versatile it becomes. I would like to see a change to allow for more versatility.

However, I believe that allowing a player to simply add another polarity to an already polarized slot would outclass the Aura Forma immediately, costing significantly less to polarize your aura slots for all possible auras than it's current cost. 

I believe that the Aura Forma should be changed to simply be a Universal Forma (excluding Umbra polarity), allowing it to be used on any and all slots. Universal Forma would allow for MANY new builds to be made.

The cost of currently creating an Aura Forma (four Forma, one Argon Crystal, ten Nitain Extract, and 100,000 Credits) is enough to balance this change being implemented.

In regards to the Umbra polarity, I believe your concept of adding a polarity to an existing one could be used here. This would allow for an Umbra Forma to polarize a slot with the Umbra symbol, while also having the option of polarizing it with another one of the base polarity or the universal polarity.

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This is a great idea and would be especially awesome on weapons since all elemental mods arnt the same polarity and sometimes can be difficult to keep the hierarchy working and switch out builds. 

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On 2020-06-10 at 6:49 AM, Taiepii said:

-snip-

I've been advocating this for years now!

Hell yes! I mean, if nothing else it means people might start putting dozens more forma into their frames and weapons, which means DE is going to make more money.

Side-note, I think with the scarcity of Umbral Forma, you should only need to use one Umbral Forma per warframe to make any copy/variant of that warframe be able to select more Umbral slots with normal forma. That way, players aren't punished by diversifying between different frames, particularly when one nerf/change or new enemy/mission type can render your New-War-ready warframe obsolete.

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This is awesome, I would really like to see this happen haha.

I have an idea as well where instead of putting forma on slots it will be instead like a reusable resource where we can add or remove whenever we wanted to. Like for example add 5 V polarity to the resource pool then you have a choice of using only 3 of them and not using the rest. This means you can add as many V or Dash polarity as you want and only use some of them for certain builds.

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On 2020-06-12 at 4:20 AM, Xarteros said:

Side-note, I think with the scarcity of Umbral Forma, you should only need to use one Umbral Forma per warframe to make any copy/variant of that warframe be able to select more Umbral slots with normal forma. That way, players aren't punished by diversifying between different frames, particularly when one nerf/change or new enemy/mission type can render your New-War-ready warframe obsolete.

And you far right.
Games should "reward" player for their time spend. So that they enjoy and appreciate spending more time on the game. So to see the word "punished" is actually really bad sign already.


And talking about META change frame is also a big deal when choosing which frame we would use an Umbra on.
I really know what you talking about cause I experienced this. Put myself umbra mod on my Chroma build as I was doing a lot of Eidolon Hunt with it. Sadly last "self-damage" nerf heavily changed Chroma efficiency in hunt. And now my Umbra felt as waste.

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On 2020-06-09 at 3:49 PM, Taiepii said:

We progressively got multiple update that lead me to a new idea how Forma should work in the game. That could improve a word DE keep bragging about, "Variety" in Warframe.

 

Here is an example of the problem :

 

I for multiple reason decide to build my Frame with multiple Madurai forma so that I can test her game play with lots of Strength.

unknown.png?width=1443&height=478

I have fun an all but once I decide to go something different. Like being more tank. Here is the result. Just not possible to use  ( -10/74 capacity ) .

unknown.png

And we have this problem with MANY frame.

The only solution at the moment is to build a 2nd Frame independently.

 

Moreover recently we saw our self with the possibility to do up to 6 configuration of our Frame. But how can we do 6 different build if we are highly limited on the forma polarity already ?

In the end those 6 configuration are closely same one with only a tiny change each time.

 

So how we could improve that ? Has it already been though of ?

We know it been though of since we got the Aura forma, which consume us 4 regular forma but give that opportunity to use whichever polarity mod.

We also had the Stance forma for melee weapon. That act the same way as the Aura forma.

But when it come to regular slot, I'm asking myself "How we would deal with Umbra forma" ?

 

So here is my solution that I would call fair. And would help new player in their mistake as much as it would please endgame player that love to do multiple testing on their frame.

 

So thing is simple. We put Forma like we always do and get the forma on the slot we need

Here is my slot with Madurai forma.

unknown.png

And when if come to change it. Instead of changing it, each Forma would be added on side of previous one.

Here is my slot with Madurai AND Naramon forma

Forma_Multiple.png

This way it will open up a way greater "variety" of choice in term of our build.

 

And it add multiple advantage :
 -Lower cost since we will apply only the necessary amount of Forma instead of a full 4 forma each time, when we will barely use the 4 of them ( Never saw anyone using Zenurik polarity over the Aura "Brief Respite" ).

-It will reduce the frustration of new player once they realize they choose the wrong forma. Cause at least they might use the polarity back someday.

-Umbra Forma will work the same. And so it close the problem to the question if we want to do a build without using Umbra mod. And or the question to "Should we include umbra to a universal polarity mod ?"

-It will give endgame player the full access to an immense variety of build choice without heavily investing in a complete different Frame and maybe extra load out. And honestly THAT will be a new game experience.

-Dev wont have to create a new unique resource and/or mission to access to a new "Universal Forma"

-And it wont be broken as we will still have to farm for those Forma ( 1 a day ).

-It open up new variety of build as well for Weapon since we are limited on capacity too. Especially since Exilus slot been added.

 

And I honestly don't see disadvantage in this system.

 

Thank for reading. Hopefully DE will have a though on this

Thats a great suggestion. What I think DE should also do instead of all these different types of Formas is do what they did to the Augment Mods, make them all the same polarity. Why cant all the Stance, Aura, Exilus mods have there own polarity. Also on the Warframe itself give us one slot for a Augment mod.

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On 2020-06-09 at 4:30 PM, --Brandt-- said:

I wouldn't mind something like this. I'll edit this post in like an hour with screenshots, but my Nova prime looks similar to your example above. I have an aura forma and umbral forma on her for my slowva. However the other two builds have incorrect polarities. They fit, but still slightly bothers me. 

My Nova already has 70 forma on (I'm bored so I'm slowly doing 100 forma). I would happily use more forma to do what you showed.

 

Edit: So I forgot to post when I logged in. Realistically an exilus forma would be the most useful to me in this example especially considering there's 3 different polarities across 3 builds. At least more useful than stance forma ever will be. 

My main, which is what I revolved my forma around. 

8LkVu7P.png

My second build, kind of for portals, usually used for a change to go a little faster.

Mg5E4We.png

Speed build kind... Don't really use but I messed around seeing what it would be like.

IGdI316.png

Im just wondering why someone would polarize anything in the game more than 8 times and that's if you had messed up on polarizing, but 71 times I just don't understand. Its not like it will make the frame or weapon more powerful. Just seems like a lot of waited time and Formas. If there is a benefit to doing that please let me know.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)Lord_Kuku said:

Im just wondering why someone would polarize anything in the game more than 8 times and that's if you had messed up on polarizing, but 71 times I just don't understand. Its not like it will make the frame or weapon more powerful. Just seems like a lot of waited time and Formas. If there is a benefit to doing that please let me know.

It's something to do, that's the only reason why I am doing it and there is zero benefit. I just chose Nova for it since she's the frame I use the most. I'll probably chose another frame after I finish Nova to do it to. Forma isn't much of a concern since I run fissures all the time and I'm crafting them every 23 hours.

yGCz2Lz.png

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Somewhat related:

 

It would be nice If all my mods stayed in place when I used a Forma. If there is not enough capacity, The mods would then be activated in order of Top Right to left and then bottom right to left as the weapon levels up.

Thsi would make it easier to level weapons in long endless missions, as your mods and damage would gradually rise as you gain XP.

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21 hours ago, --Brandt-- said:

It's something to do, that's the only reason why I am doing it and there is zero benefit. I just chose Nova for it since she's the frame I use the most. I'll probably chose another frame after I finish Nova to do it to. Forma isn't much of a concern since I run fissures all the time and I'm crafting them every 23 hours.

yGCz2Lz.png

Thanx for the info, I saw a lot of people putting anywhere between 50 to 100 formas on one frame. So I was thinking I missed something and it would buff the frame by polarizing them so many times..

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On 2020-06-14 at 5:48 PM, Snowpoint-Prime said:

Somewhat related:

 

It would be nice If all my mods stayed in place when I used a Forma. If there is not enough capacity, The mods would then be activated in order of Top Right to left and then bottom right to left as the weapon levels up.

Thsi would make it easier to level weapons in long endless missions, as your mods and damage would gradually rise as you gain XP.

There is similar system already implemented in the game. 

 

If you happen to sell your aura mod that was equipped on your frame you will lose all the capacity that it offert. 

However all your equipped mod wont go away. You will simply go in negative capacity. 

And if you start a mission with the build. You will simply get some of the mod deactivate ( to fit capacity ).

It is nice as you dont have to re-build everything. And the game will calculate for you what mod should be considere or not. 

 

So I dont know why it doesn't work the same way when putting a forma. But I guess it is just not to confuse player on how capacity work. 

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Forma is t just a double capacity item, it’s meant to be both a help and a hindrance. This is not the first time universal forma or alike has been asked, and it’s a dumb idea. It just ruins the whole forma system.

What’s next? Orokin reactor stacking? Halving all mod caoacity costs? Making every Warframe and weapon like the Paracesis?

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19 hours ago, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

Forma is t just a double capacity item, it’s meant to be both a help and a hindrance. This is not the first time universal forma or alike has been asked, and it’s a dumb idea. It just ruins the whole forma system.

What’s next? Orokin reactor stacking? Halving all mod caoacity costs? Making every Warframe and weapon like the Paracesis?

What DE needs to do is what they did with the Augment Mods, make them all the same Polarity. Make all the Aura Mods, Stance Mods and Exilus Mods and give them all a new type of polarity for that category of Mods. As for all are Warframes Im sure DE can just change the Aura, Stance and Exilus slots polarity to the new type of polarity on everyone's account. Makes its so we don't have some any dang formas, also we should get an Augment Slot to place at least one Augment on a frame without having to mess up the rest of the build.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah the primary, secondary, and melee element mods have heat, toxin, and electricity naramon but cold is vazarin, having mutiple polarities each mod slot or universal polarity on each mod slot would help players to see which build of the weapons is the best without wasting extra formas for it. but the status+ elemental mods are all madurai.   

Edited by TheNeonGod

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On 2020-06-26 at 7:38 AM, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

Forma is t just a double capacity item, it’s meant to be both a help and a hindrance. This is not the first time universal forma or alike has been asked, and it’s a dumb idea. It just ruins the whole forma system.

What’s next? Orokin reactor stacking? Halving all mod caoacity costs? Making every Warframe and weapon like the Paracesis?

I'm not asking for extra capacity. That wasn't the point of this idea.


Forma system is an old system that need an update. Why so ? Cause lot's of thing related to it evolved :
Starting with the very recent change of
Shield gating/ Armor/ Health/ Shield health/ Status ..., and so the way to build Frame and Weapon changed.
Moreover the quantity of mod is not the same compare to back then, we talking for at least twice more mods, especially with all the new "Set-mod" ( Augur, Vigilante, Hunter ... ).

The game content is far more superior than back to when they implemented Forma system.
Back then they were very few mission type were available. And so we only build our frame depending on our gameplay.

Now 1-3 "simple" build wont adapt to all the new content.

Let's take for instance Volt.

Volt was mainly use for "Speed" back in time.

Today we will use Volt for many purpose. (Full Speed / ESO nuke / Eidolon hunt DPS / Eidolon Hunt support / Buffer ) each time a very independent build with different polarity use. And each player with his own unique build that differ with other player. In reality you can't have all those build mix in 1 Volt. Or we will talk about half asset build.

 

My idea is to offer a more open variety of build.

Modding in Warframe is what make Warframe unique in a way. What dump in asking DE an alternative to a wider variety of build ? Especially when DE keep bragging about "Variety of choice" every time they nerf a popular weapon / frame / archwing ?

So imagine I did a full speed Volt for the fun of it and use Madurai forma. I can never play him in a tank mode because it use Vazarin polarity ?
Because this is how the game is at the moment.
Don't get me wrong in a way. I know there is alternative like build multi-frame. I did myself 2 Volt prime with their own forma polarity. And even with 2 Volt prime. The problem is too persistent ( Lack of variety ). When you think about all the possibility of build we talk about something over 65 536 ( I did a simple 4^8 calcul without even counting all mod accessible in the game cause the real number of possibility is way higher ).

 

Now when you an initiate to the game. You might not see and understand the point to this problem since there is plenty to do in the game.

When you are a veteran player that have everything, repeated every game mode thousand of time. What fun left to play the game ? Finding god roll riven ? Get rich ? Flex in front of other ?
To me build testing is what keep me in the game. And way too often I get limited on the Frame building.
I have over 3k hour of playtime ( in-game stat ) and after spending that much time in the game. I believe this forma option will expend the time interest of the game more than just making it easier.


And to come to Reactor stacking or base capacity of 40, whatever that boost capacity. That isn't dump as well.

Here is an example :

unknown.png

Look even with the perfect Forma I still don't have enough capacity to but a single exilus on this base 30 capacity weapon. Where a base 40 capacity like any Kuva weapon wouldn't have this problem. Where is the "variety of choice" that DE brag about every time they nerf a popular weapon / frame ? When they is a clear advantage in using certain weapon.

So if DE have a though of implementing a booster capacity like ( Aura or Stance ), this is far from being "dump". Expect if their words about "variety of choice" is pure talk.

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I agree with any idea that make multiple polarity for a slot possible.

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On 2020-06-27 at 9:40 PM, (PS4)Lord_Kuku said:

What DE needs to do is what they did with the Augment Mods, make them all the same Polarity. Make all the Aura Mods, Stance Mods and Exilus Mods and give them all a new type of polarity for that category of Mods

Um why? De already has aura forma (universal), stance firms and forma can redo the exiles mod. It’s not a big deal if it doesn’t fit properly, it’s only a loss of at most 7 capacity 

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6 hours ago, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

Um why? De already has aura forma (universal), stance firms and forma can redo the exiles mod. It’s not a big deal if it doesn’t fit properly, it’s only a loss of at most 7 capacity 

Warframe is the only game I play and have been sense the release of the PS4. To me Its common sense. All the Augment mods have the same polarity so you can polarize a slot on your warframe to that polarity and put any Augment mod in that location. The Aura mods and Stance mods should a be the same way having there own custom polarity. Those slots can be left blank, that way we have to use at least use 1 forma on those slots to make them the right polarity. That way we don't need to build Aura formas or stance formas using 4 normal formas to build just one forma for the Aura or Stance slots. Cretin mods should have there own polarity like the Augment mods, exsample all Aura mods, Stance mods and Exilus mods should all have there own custom polarity just like Augment mods.

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