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The Deadlock Protocol: Protea Feedback Megathread

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Posted (edited)

The idea is to make warframes good enough... Protea is a lot of fun but it just needs a little boost. All the things I writte here are based in my gameplay reactions using her against high enough lvl enemies (100-165). Considering that Protea is not a "META" frame but a good enough one to face arbitrations or sorties with no struggle.

There is a lot of feedback in this Megathread... despite that I really hope you get to read mine, I already put 6 forma in Protea and tried a lot of builds (including arcanes) concluding with these few points:

1) Passive: Amazing as it is.

2) First skill: Granade Fan

Context:

  • Shield constant recharge is great but it´s just shield at the end, it doesn´t gain more dmg reduction than it´s intended 25%.
  • 10 seconds is more than enough for the CC provided by the granades but not for satelittes, feels really awkward having to cast every x few seconds in the middle of a mission just to survive when there is a lot of frames that can do a better job killing and surviving against middle-high lvl content.
  • There is an actual "Synergy" with arcane aegis but it´s so random and situational (Protea is so dependent of this arcane for her to survive 100+ enemies)
  • The Crowd Control is pretty good (1 tap key mode) but it´s inconsistent because of the granades´spread and its base average range.
  • It takes a lot of time to cast a skill that´s meant to be spammable.

Suggestions:

  • Add damage reduction to the satellite mode and allow this to ONLY be applied to SHIELDS because of its low energy cost.
    • 30% base damage reduction should be enough, affected by power strenght with a cap of 60%. (This will give her enough survivability)
  • Increase base duration for the satellite mode, 20 seconds seems pretty fair for a 25 energy cost, in my opinion.
  • Increase base range for both modes, 30-50% extra base range should be allright.
  • Increase casting speed, please... it´s dreadfull (Natural talent shouldn´t be a mandatory mod considering it´s not even an exilus mod)

3) Second skill: Blaze Artillery

Context:

  • It doesn´t deal enough damage against middle-high lvl content, dmg is starting to drop at lvls 60+ even with a 254% power strenght build. Again, our weapons do a better job than this skill.

Suggestions:

  • Make its dmg scale with enemy lvl (like vauban´s "orbital strike" or "flechette orb").
    • (Plus) Add more AoE to the Artillery so it can hit more enemies per shot and gain more combo (damage multiplier) easily .

4) Third skill: Dispensary 

  • I find it fine as it is but like a few people mentioned, maybe you could add a synergy between this one and another hability of her kit.

5) Fourth skill: Temporal Anchor

Context:

  • Considering you can´t cast more than 3 blaze artillery at the time there is no point in using this hability.
  • I find the returning animation to the place where you casted the hability really annoying, makes me don´t want to use it.
  • Implosion mechanic is useless and situational, our weapons can deal far more damage.

Suggestions:

  • (BLAZE ARTILLERY SYNERGY) While Temporal Anchor is activated,  you get an UNLIMITED number of artillery (no cap) and a 50% EXTRA SHOTS (from 6 to 9) so you can spend all your energy in it before it´s refilled when the the duration of the temporal anchor runs out.
  • If you die while Temporal Anchor is active, you COME BACK INSTANTLY to the place where you casted it instead of the long animation that feels really awkward.
  • Instead of an IMPLOSION, make the dealt damage be converted to EXTRA DAMAGE for Protea and its weapons for "x" seconds (20 seconds would be nice/scales with duration).

From all these suggestions I´d take priority in her first skill because she really lacks in survivability and depends from arcane aegis to survive middle-high lvl content. Hope you get to read my feedback. I really see a lot of potential in Protea so she can be as good and enjoyable as Gauss for example.

 

Edited by xXMadneXDXx

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You don't have to make it portable. You can leave it stationary, but add installation time. For example, when using the ability, a "workpiece" will appear, after which you will need to approach and clamp the interaction button until the turret unfolds. If the process takes, for example, seconds 5, then this will prevent its use on missions such as sweep or capture, where you need to constantly move.
To reduce the effectiveness of missions such as defense and interception, you can remove the increase in damage from hits and reduce the overall damage, but add an increase in damage depending on the level of enemies.
As a result, a unique ability is obtained, sharpened exclusively for assistance in the defense of objects or passages. It will not slow down gameplay (due to installation time) on fast missions and will not be able to destroy enemies alone without the help of the player (due to low damage), but will be able to steadily weaken enemies at least 9 at least 9999 levels

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1 hour ago, Miradocus said:

You don't have to make it portable. You can leave it stationary, but add installation time. For example, when using the ability, a "workpiece" will appear, after which you will need to approach and clamp the interaction button until the turret unfolds. If the process takes, for example, seconds 5, then this will prevent its use on missions such as sweep or capture, where you need to constantly move.
To reduce the effectiveness of missions such as defense and interception, you can remove the increase in damage from hits and reduce the overall damage, but add an increase in damage depending on the level of enemies.
As a result, a unique ability is obtained, sharpened exclusively for assistance in the defense of objects or passages. It will not slow down gameplay (due to installation time) on fast missions and will not be able to destroy enemies alone without the help of the player (due to low damage), but will be able to steadily weaken enemies at least 9 at least 9999 levels

Creating an installation time dramatically slows down gameplay be it on defense, interception, or on more mobile missions, and if it still has a limited duration it just makes the entire ability worse.

Not to mention even with its current attempts at damage it fails pretty hard starting at mid level content. Nerfing its damage further on top of having to manually setup just kills the ability. You would be better off just dropping air support turrets.

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Posted (edited)

Ok...just finished playing in a defense mission with a bunch of equinoxs and I find it odd how with her in a way having the same mechanics as maim with Temporal Anchor except equinox having a damage type that matters(slash) compared to Proteas blast damage which is arguably a very bad element choice has LoS AND a time frame in which to build up said damage whereas Equinox can build up her damage forever.

So...  I suggest...either make maim have LoS(which it probably should have been anyway) or take LoS away from Proteas Temporal Anchor. It makes no sense to have two arguably similar abilities where one has restrictions and one doesnt. 

Edited by rawr1254
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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Rawbeard said:

every Protea gripe is new

Yea but the currents gipes have all been about duration...

Edited by rawr1254

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Posted (edited)

I'd say anything that has AoE capabilities should utilize LoS, but this should come with improved level design.

Edited by Xaero
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Here are some recommendations or tweaks for Protea's abilities to be more user-friendly and encourage usage.

Grenade Fan

  • Shield Satellites

    • Add a timer of remaining duration on the UI indicating the shield recharge rate on the top right corner.

      • When another cast of Grenade Fan, the timer changes to the most current cast therefore the timer to show the Shield Satellite attached is lost and cannot be kept on track.

    • When throwing three Shield Satellites, one will automatically attach onto Protea herself.

      • It always happens that all allies are so near you that all three Shield Satellites attached to others, leaving yourself none. In tight situations, you will get killed easily just because all the satellites went to others. Also when jumping in mid-air, you have wait till you land on ground to get the shield regeneration.

Blaze Artillery 

  • Make the plasma turret a modable exalted weapon.

    • Blaze Artillery must have the power and capability to compete with weapons so that players are willing to spend 50 energy instead of shooting another bullet.

    • Due to the damage, ammo limitation, line of sight, as well as requiring energy and cast time, it will never be overpowered even if it is an auto-aiming turret.

  • Increase the ammo to 10 which scales with power duration and remove the time limit.

    • Having both ammo limitation and time duration is way too restrictive. The forte of this ability is the combo counter yet it stays too short, especially when considering it needs to spend energy to cast. It does not need to be this short for game balancing.

Dispensary 

  • Increase the energy orbs to 2(regenerating 50 energy instead of 25)

    • There is a time delay for pickups to be generated, not to mention it rotates between 3 types, while the ability itself costs 75 energy. It needs to give more to compete with consumable items.

 

Temporal Anchor

  • Reduce the energy cost from 100 to 75.

    • As an ability that reduces cost on ammo and energy, the price to pay is too high. This ability to reduce energy is in fact the most energy taxing.

  • Increase the explosion damage from 25% recorded damage to 100% of the recorded damage.

    • The damage needs active playing from the players and time for preparation as after the ability ends. It is not an overpowered strong nuking ability that could clear the whole map of enemies. Therefore there is no reason to limit the damage to merely 25%.

  • When anchored in time, increase the movement speed and casting speed of Protea by 50% respectively.

    • Again this ability costs too expensive (100 energy) while providing too little benefits to encourage players to actively use it.

    • Since energy will be refunded and damage will be recorded as in an explosion, this means it encourages using abilities and moving around during the ability. The increase in movement speed and casting speed not only suits the concept but also creates synergy among abilities.

  • When downed during Temporal Anchor, 5% shield points will also be restored alongside 5% health points.

    • With only 5% health and suffering a knockdown. this calls for enemies to shoot you just once more to get you killed. This makes the surviving aspect of this ability meaningless.

    • Giving a small amount of shield points could 1) resist one more hit, and 2) activate shield gating. This truly gives a "last stand survival chance".

I truly hope this feedback will be read and Protea will become an even more interesting Warframe, with all abilities favored by player and none will be wasted nor unused by anyone.

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Posted (edited)

I think what even DE does not get, MOST of the time Warframe is a game where you MOVE FORWARD.. Having a stationary turret ALREADY IS A DOWNSIDE to have arguably.. so the WHOLE argument about it being and afk thing is SO rediciulous to me..

 I just want my best boy turret friend I can place down whenever I feel like it and hold down and area.. thats what I and many others wish for.. if you remove the concept of her beeing a turret frame she instantly loses all her flavor and becomes a whole other warframe which would make me extrremely sad.. dont change her.. just fix her.

Edited by SmokinDice

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  • PASSIVE - Every 4th Ability cast is granted +100% Ability Strength. - Its great. Keep it.
  • GRENADE FAN - Activate to throw a cluster of shrapnel grenades, damaging and staggering nearby enemies. Hold to emit sticky shield grenades that latch onto allies and restore a large amount of shields. - Doesn't scale well, shields are useful. Maybe make the grenades scale off weapon damage or make them like Vauban's mines. Otherwise its just half an ability, maybe even adjust range, duration and even the spread, would be nice to be able to control the spread somewhat.
  • BLAZE ARTILLERY - Place a temporary rapid-fire turret that automatically targets enemies. Each successful hit increases its damage, causing projectiles to pierce enemies and hit multiple foes with a single shot. - I've made it work so it scales, but it uses up ALL of my energy (without 4) to kill level 145 gunners. It would be cool if they could become stationary without needed enemies present so it can be used defensively not as offensively. Conversely could make it so placing multiple could fuse them? Just an idea.
  • DISPENSARY - Deploy a cycling supply cache that can generate Health, Ammo and Energy pickups periodically. - Keep it. Love it in a pinch.
  • TEMPORAL ANCHOR - Activate to drop an anchor point that records Protea’s state. Any damage dealt to Protea during the Ability will be emitted back to your foes upon deactivation. Deactivating Temporal Anchor will rewind Protea back to the activation point restoring all ammo, energy, shields and health. If Protea is downed while Temporal Anchor is active, Protea will automatically rewind to safety! - Visually nauseating sometimes, also I get some bug where if I activate it early it sometimes cancels the whole ability and you lose everything you've expended still, somewhat annoying I haven't checked if it was mentioned in the ability description though. I can see it becoming relatively damaging to the game if her other abilities are buffed though so you can spam them without many disadvantages using her 4, so possibly increasing the base cost would be good but increasing base duration would be a nice trade-off, stops people spamming abilities so much without repercussions only IF her 1 and 2 are buffed and lets them actually use weapons more instead of just whamming grenades and turrets.

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Posted (edited)

ideas

her 1(shielding),2 and 3 shouldn't have a timer imo

the strength of all of her abilities should be at least double..... her passive doesnt feel like 100%,100%,100%,200% strength but more like 50%,50%,50%,100%
what is the reason behind the jump lock on her 2,3 and 4

1 should drop both grenade types at once
i dont get why her 1 is split up in 2 abilities ._. it wouldnt break her if it's cast would apply the shield buff to everyone  while throwing her slash grenades... i'd love to see the shield drone have 2 stacks + recastability, so you can just safely recast after the first drone is destroyed ._. and again, why is there a timer?
swap it with her 4 maybe

2 shouldn't even have a limited ammo pool
maybe inate volt shields on the senrtries with its transistor augment for the sentries and her current 4

3 Should drop all possible drops at once, at any times. it's so tedious just sticking to the flower waiting for the energy orb to drop ._. its sad, that even this selfpunishment is more reliable than getting energy from killing enemies (fast).
or at least let us spam a few flowers more that just one ._. 

4... its just an extremly worse nuke equinox.... that should be her 1...
the dmg stacked up, ads damage bonus to the sentries and grenades
let us cancle the rewind at any time
energy left, after her 4 ended, should be always the higher value from before or after the cast

something to benefit her energy in general ._.

im sorry if i sound salty, but after the drought due to c-19 i just expected less chained down mastery fodder
it was frustrating, leveling her

Edited by Muzure

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 So far playing Protea I am quite underwhelmed to even Disappointed at how her kit was handled, her damage output is extremely overshadowed by all other frames given her grenades having such low damage, and the Burning Artillery's many factors working against it, ammo, 6 second duration that cannot be increased, low angle to target from. heres some of my ideas on tweaking them to be more usable.

  • Passive: fine for the most part but with rest of the kit currently hardly notice a difference.

 

  • Grenade Fan
  1.  remove the hop as it makes it inaccurate and gives an unneeded windup per throw.
  2.  make each proc from shrapnel grenades make next proc deal at least 10-20% more damage. 
  3. increase the duration from 10 seconds to 25 at max rank at least.
  4. Shield Satellite grenades just need duration buff. 
  5. alternatively give synergy with Temporal Anchor by having duration reset to where it was when Temporal anchor was started upon rewind.
  6.  maybe add a cycle for which grenades you wish to chuck down rather then hold/tap mechanic, lag can cause you to throw the wrong grenade type.
  7. cut back a bit on the effects given as other players have stated being blinded by the grenade spam, increase the range of the grenades and limit the number to 6 maybe?
  • Burning Artillery:
  1. please get rid of the ammo limit/duration for energy drain per shot. possibly 10 energy times the bonus damage of the shot its spent on shown on back so the cost increases the longer its fighting.
  2. make energy regen disable as if using an exalted weapon, only refillable by energy orbs, or upon rewind via Temporal Anchor
  3. regaining energy from Temporal anchor Returns the Burning Artillery's bonus damage back to where it was upon Temporal Anchor being originally cast, making the player juggle between damage output on the turret, and keeping it from firing off all of their energy. 
  4. limit the turret to one but give it full 360 targeting. 
  • Dispensary:
  1. fine for the most part, maybe speed up the drop rate of supplys slightly so wait time is lowered
  2.  or cycle casting to give allies one of three mini Dispensers they ask for to recharge on the go as it orbits them for the duration being ammo, energy, health, or the main unit which remains stationary. 
  • Temporal Anchor:
  1. increase the range of the blast when rewinding as others have said.
  2. synergies with the other abilities given the time rewind mechanic.

 those are my current ideas on fixing Protea's Kit, trying to keep her from becoming too overpowered but also getting her up to being more viable for all content like all other frames are, with some tweaks to make her abilities a bit easier to work with for players who have trouble with the tap/hold, or don't want to sit around in one spot waiting for what they need dispensed, when they have the various restores which are already stationary to begin with. currently though it feels like someone took the Nerf Fragor Prime to her knees right out the door unfortunately or that she tripped right over it on the way into the game. given she has trouble doing even level 30+ infested, which her two abilities are supposed to be strong against. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

To be honest, I find Protea to be fun, but very lackluster.

Good passive, except, she doesn't have any skills that are good enough for it to be worth it. Whenever I get a new warframe, I always rate it from a standpoint of "Why would  I use X over Y", or rather - does using this new frame have any benefits over using regular weapons/consumables/other frames? 

1) If I wanted to bring a frame that can top-up allies shields or energy, why would I bring Protea over EV/VampleechTrinity? I wouldn't, Protea's shield regen is clunkier to use and less powerful. On top of that, her DPS option for grenades falls off very, very quickly. 

2) If I wanted a frame to heal - Trinity, Oberon and Wisp offer better healing with better side bonuses too - damage reduction, armor boost and status immunity, speed boost and shock mote. Ammo and energy restores... Well, if you can't afford an ammo/energy pizza (or consumables are locked, like in ESO) it's probably an option, but not the best one.

3) If I wanted a DPS frame - not even a contest. Her turret can't hold a candle to any of the meta DPS frames and doesn't bring any noticeable side benefits and her 4... Let's just say, Antimatter Drop exists. 

4) If I wanted a frame that can survive in a pinch OR have a "cheat death" option/oh shi- button - well, Tracer's Protea's "ultimate ability" is fun to use, but not as effective as the toolkit available to Nidus, Oberon (Phoenix Renewal), Harrow, Wukong... 

 

TL;DR: For Protea to shine, she needs to excel at something in a way no other frame can or bring unique, powerful utility to the group. Right now, she doesn't, she's just a gimmick frame that sorely needs to find her identity. 

Edited by Reifnir

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Posted (edited)

Hi, Protea looks like Gauss in laucher, just need a little love to make this frame fun and well used

my review and sugestions:

___________________________________

PassiveReview: A well Design Passive, clap clap, clap!
___________________________________

Grenade Fan
  Radius 4 > 6
  Can be cast while doing another action (as some frames already do it in other Abilities, like Saryn Spores)

Review: Fair first ability, nothing absurd, very good for survival but performance coupled in the Shield Gating mechanics, if this mechanics is nerfed, this frame will be nerfed together.

Blaze Artillery
  3 > 5 (limit of active turrets)
  Duration Removed
  Add Base Ammo 18 Shots
  Duration Mods Add Ammo
  Big Nerf in Base Damage and use Primary Weapon as Stat Sticker
  Add Base CC and Status Chance (10 and 10, Base CC and SC Scale by Augment)
  Can be cast while doing another action (as some frames already do it in other Abilities, like Saryn Spores)

    Augments Sugestion:
      Rook Turret
      Add Base CC and SC based on Ability Strength, if u Hold, Cancel any existing turrets and Deploy a Turret with a double duration who follow Protea.
 

Review: Fun Ability, it is kind of strong by itself, but it is not good enough, these adjustments I believe have left the skill strong without disfiguring the initial design and the mechanics of those who already like the skill, but it allows players to influence in a custom way the attributes (as already done with some abilities of others, frames, Khora, Atlas, etc.).

Dispensary
  Duration Removed
  Works Just like Wisp Reservoirs
  Add Extra Charge (2 can depoy in same time, like Wisp)

Review: What makes Wisp's Reservoirs a good Ability is that it makes this skill kinda lame right now, only that would make the skill be interesting.

Temporal Anchor
  Can be cast while doing another action (as some frames already do it in other Abilities, like Saryn Spores)

Review: Signature Ability, nothing more to say right now, XD.

___________________________________


Final thoughts: Well done, this update is a great experience, the new lore makes all very intense! I hope we can save the prisoners of Fortuna with Credits in the future, I feel bad about leaving them behind when I don't have any coins left 😞. The "stop to cast" mechanics is what make She and Frames like Hydroid/Vaulban suffer (and the cast time... in the words of the famous philosopher, Morty: "Jeez!!!"), but this is another topic, remove this and make the 1, 2, and 4 flow smoothly.

Cheers!

*** I use Google Translator, if anything looks odd, pleasy, tell me in coments.

Edited by ZukeZima
An observation in case of grammatical and translation errors
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On 2020-06-09 at 6:55 PM, [DE]Bear said:

In this Megathread, we want to hear your feedback on Protea and her swathe of new abilities!

  • PASSIVE - Every 4th Ability cast is granted +100% Ability Strength. 
  • GRENADE FAN - Activate to throw a cluster of shrapnel grenades, damaging and staggering nearby enemies. Hold to emit sticky shield grenades that latch onto allies and restore a large amount of shields. 
  • BLAZE ARTILLERY - Place a temporary rapid-fire turret that automatically targets enemies. Each successful hit increases its damage, causing projectiles to pierce enemies and hit multiple foes with a single shot. 
  • DISPENSARY - Deploy a cycling supply cache that can generate Health, Ammo and Energy pickups periodically.
  • TEMPORAL ANCHOR - Activate to drop an anchor point that records Protea’s state. Any damage dealt to Protea during the Ability will be emitted back to your foes upon deactivation. Deactivating Temporal Anchor will rewind Protea back to the activation point restoring all ammo, energy, shields and health. If Protea is downed while Temporal Anchor is active, Protea will automatically rewind to safety! 

If you have feedback to leave on the subject of Protea or her abilities, then please do so in this thread. Please remember that you should keep your feedback constructive and civil. If you like an aspect of Protea, tell us what you like. If you do not like an aspect, then tell us why, and what you would change to make it better!

Please bear in mind this is not a place to leave bugs you discover while playing. If you do need to report a bug, please use The Deadlock Protocol: Bug Report Megathread

Thank you!
 

Hi, Protea looks like Gauss in laucher, just need a little love to make this frame fun and well used

my review and sugestions:

___________________________________

Passive Review: A well Design Passive, clap clap, clap!
___________________________________

Grenade Fan
  Radius 4 > 6
  Can be cast while doing another action (as some frames already do it in other Abilities, like Saryn Spores)

Review: Fair first ability, nothing absurd, very good for survival but performance coupled in the Shield Gating mechanics, if this mechanics is nerfed, this frame will be nerfed together.

Blaze Artillery
  3 > 5 (limit of active turrets)
  Duration Removed
  Add Base Ammo 18 Shots
  Duration Mods Add Ammo
  Big Nerf in Base Damage and use Primary Weapon as Stat Sticker
  Add Base CC and Status Chance (10 and 10, Base CC and SC Scale by Augment)
  Can be cast while doing another action (as some frames already do it in other Abilities, like Saryn Spores)

    Augments Sugestion:
      Rook Turret
      Add Base CC and SC based on Ability Strength, if u Hold, Cancel any existing turrets and Deploy a Turret with a double duration who follow Protea.
 

Review: Fun Ability, it is kind of strong by itself, but it is not good enough, these adjustments I believe have left the skill strong without disfiguring the initial design and the mechanics of those who already like the skill, but it allows players to influence in a custom way the attributes (as already done with some abilities of others, frames, Khora, Atlas, etc.).

Dispensary
  Duration Removed
  Works Just like Wisp Reservoirs
  Add Extra Charge (2 can depoy in same time, like Wisp)

Review: What makes Wisp's Reservoirs a good Ability is that it makes this skill kinda lame right now, only that would make the skill be interesting.

Temporal Anchor
  Can be cast while doing another action (as some frames already do it in other Abilities, like Saryn Spores)

Review: Signature Ability, nothing more to say right now, XD.

___________________________________


Final thoughts: Well done, this update is a great experience, the new lore makes all very intense! I hope we can save the prisoners of Fortuna with Credits in the future, I feel bad about leaving them behind when I don't have any coins left 😞. The "stop to cast" mechanics is what make She and Frames like Hydroid/Vaulban suffer (and the cast time... in the words of the famous philosopher, Morty: "Jeez!!!"), but this is another topic, remove this and make the 1, 2, and 4 flow smoothly.

Cheers!

*** I use Google Translator, if anything looks odd, pleasy, tell me in coments.

~~I ended up doing a post about it, I hadn't seen your post because I'm not used to the forum yet, sorry, if you think it's necessary, you can delete the other post.~~

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ZukeZima said:

Hi, Protea looks like Gauss in laucher, just need a little love to make this frame fun and well used

yes, just this.. went from a playable mess into my favorite warframe, and honestly Protea will hopefully sooner then later become the same.

This is mandatory:

1. all we really need is a major duration buff to please everyone, on her 2 and her shield grenade at least.. for her turrets either through straight up duration, OR a huge ammo increase and a total removal of duration

THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED! on the BASE Warframe. NOT, I repeat, NOT with an augment....

 

This would be a nice and welcomed addition:

2. IF you want to give the turret scaling damage then, thats fine with me, even if we only can have 3 or 2 or even just 1 turret out then.. (although I love multiple!)

3. redesign her anchor a bit to give it more use/synergies. THE best Idea I have seen so far: make it a toggle ability that always records your last 5 seconds of movement. on second button press you revert back to that location restoring any lost health, energy and ammo to you and your turret. or hold to just end it early without rewinding. easy fix!

this would make it actually useful to get out of harms way in tricky situations AND would give it some synergy with her turrets also. and I would not worry for the possibility to while toggled on amassing millions of damage, since due to its damage type it wont do any harm to armoured enemys anyway..

 

Dispensary is perfect and the ONLY amazing reason to play her right now.

 

EDIT: as for OP's suggestions regarding animations, Cast animations as I said in my own thread and earlier before are wonderfully designed lately, and it should definitly not be a one handed action, the animations are SO nice and they definitly should stay, the little hop on the grenade throw looks awesome and I would never want to get rid of it. even IF it feels a bit clunky, this is the ONE good kind of clunkyness where it adds SO MUCH flavour and attitude to the warframe, it makes the ability more meaningful! NOW it only really needs to be meaningful ofcourse.. which is not entirely the case rigth now..

Edited by SmokinDice
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Posted (edited)

This warframe needs some adjusts....

skill 1 and 2 are very....uselles -.-

Edited by Luciole77

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

So...  I suggest...either make maim have LoS(which it probably should have been anyway)

How about NO? Leave Equinox alone.

 

That being said. Protea needs buffs. She feels intentionally weak to appease all the people who love asking for nerfs (of which TC unironically is another one of those) or those who complain about power creep before anything is even launched. So they nerfed her before she even arrived in the game. I guess, one reaps what one sows. Hate power, get powerless new warframes. 

Edited by Xepthrichros
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I guess tomorrow with the hotfix, we'll know if Protea is worth keeping or not. DE rarely devotes much thought to Warframes that don't become a hit during the first month of release. 

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If I may: a small change that would greatly increase Protea's usability is  the following.

Currently, "holding temporal anchor while it's active will cancel the ability entirely without the rewind, implosion or energy refund."

I suggest changing it to: "holding temporal anchor while it's active will cancel the ability's rewind entirely but keep the implosion and energy refund."
 

Why? Warframe is a fast-paced game. Modulo a small set of mission-types, rewinding to a previous location is too big a price to pay for the ability: leaving you far behind your comrades-in-arms, and forcing you to play catch-up for the rest of the mission.

This very minimal change would extend the ability's usefulness beyond defense-type missions.

An even better, albeit more complicated change would be the following: 

"tapping temporal anchor while it's active will cancel the ability's rewind entirely but keep the implosion and energy refund."

"holding temporal anchor while it's active will rewind Protea as long as the button is held, and then create the implosion and energy refund."


This latter change is such an obvious quality-of-life improvement to the ability that I would be surprised if DE hadn't thought of it already. I suspect they've been saving it for an augment mod. I implore you DE to not do that, and instead bake-in this functionality into the base ability.

 

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Posted (edited)

There are plenty of discussions elsewhere about Protea's other abilities and ways to improve them. I want to focus here on her fourth ability.

If I may: a small change that would greatly increase Protea's usability is  the following.

Currently, "holding temporal anchor while it's active will cancel the ability entirely without the rewind, implosion or energy refund."

I suggest changing it to: "holding temporal anchor while it's active will cancel the ability's rewind entirely but keep the implosion and energy refund."

 

Why? Warframe is a fast-paced game. Modulo a small set of mission-types, rewinding to a previous location is too big a price to pay for the ability: leaving you far behind your comrades-in-arms, and forcing you to play catch-up for the rest of the mission.

This very minimal change would extend the ability's usefulness beyond defense-type missions.

An even better, albeit more complicated change would be the following: 

"tapping temporal anchor while it's active will cancel the ability's rewind entirely but keep the implosion and energy refund."

"holding temporal anchor while it's active will rewind Protea as long as the button is held, and then create the implosion and energy refund."


This latter change is such an obvious quality-of-life improvement to the ability that I would be surprised if DE hadn't thought of it already. I suspect they've been saving it for an augment mod. I implore you DE to not do that, and instead bake-in this functionality into the base ability.

Edited by CerealPlayer
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The main problem with protea is....very low duration skills....need to recast each 15 seconds....ugh. And the turret...very weak in duration/damage.

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9 hours ago, Xaero said:

I'd say anything that has AoE capabilities should utilize LoS, but this should come with improved level design.

Yeah the latter is not gonna happen, look at the new Corpus Ship Tileset (and e.g. the Draco Ceres Defense map redesign urgh),
stuffed full of dead angles and obstacles and multiple layers and a partridge and a pear tree, breaking line of sight a dozen times over.

Taking away all abilities that ignore LOS would make the game way more frustrating / tedious in a lot of places.

Of course, you could rebalance everything, but ... it really would need to be EVERYTHING,
partial nerfs of currently useful Frames, with no appropriate trade-off, that's not okay.

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When I first heard about Protea and her 'techy' basis, I was interested to see how many things in common she'd have with Vauban. What I wasn't expecting was an almost total likeness... With 'old' Vauban. Both of her first abilities are undertuned and exceptionally hard to actually use; while it seems they're supposed to be 'tactical', in their current form they're raw RNG as to whether or not they're actually going to have an impact on enemies.

Grenade Fan

In it's current form, shrapnel mode is near useless. The jumping animation basically guarantees that grenades will not go where you intended and most of the time? They're going to bounce off of part of the level you weren't aiming at initially, but are very briefly at the apex of the hop. And now the grenades are offscreen. When the thing I threw them at is still in front of me. Even when they don't bounce to Void-Knows-Where, the fact that they seem to bounce once before activating means it's sheer luck as to whether or not they'll actually go NEAR an enemy- and I've found that more often than not once they do, the enemy gets staggered and wanders out of the shrapnel field before significant damage is done. The angle of the fan is far too wide and very often two out of three grenades might as well not be present as they are nowhere near anything their casting would require. The shield functionality is the only useful aspect here.

Suggestions to reduce pain points

Instead of three "AoE zoning devices" thrown in a fan so wide that the ability has a 'blind zone' comparable to how poor Chroma's 1 is at hitting anything at range, Grenade Fan should throw three much more tightly arranged and highly explosive (puncture/heat) grenades, and then have a slash AoE shrapnel cloud hang in the air for a few moments after the explosion. This would also make them feel a lot more like 'shrapnel grenade' actually sounds, currently they aren't so much 'grenades' as much as they are tiny slash vortexes that don't actually pull enemies into them. Scaling damage like Photon Strike to keep the ability relevant at higher levels also couldn't hurt. Ideally the delay between the grenade hitting something and activating would also be much shorter so there's less of a chance for enemies to simply walk outside the range of their effect before it happens.

Blaze Artillery

The range of and amount of time the turret is on the field are incredibly wanting. I can understand the desire for the game to "not play itself", but it's such a limited ability that I'm finding the only way to use it is to quickly drop 3-4 of these directly within a crowd of enemies, and even then after a certain point they just stop really taking damage due to low base damage on the turret itself, even with the scaling. I have routinely seen a turret deploy "within range" of an enemy only for it to do nothing for the entirety of its stay. This is wasted energy.

Suggestions to reduce pain points

Unfortunately, in it's current state I see only two possible improvements. It should be a much more static emplacement and limited to only one at a time in the world (ie. casting it again somewhere else withdraws the turret, hold-casting somewhere else redeploys it for a reduced energy cost) while greatly increasing its target range, maybe with a secondary state to make it a "Sentinel Venari" that orbits Protea at a comfortable range and acts as an additional set of guns that could be commanded to target things (ie. Venari). Base damage must absolutely be increased in either scenario. Treating it like a sentinel and having it be modded on it's own separately may also be helpful. As a destructible object that enemies could target, it wouldn't end up trivializing the game as smart placement may be needed in higher level content.

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Ill second the one saying that her first skill especially needs duration as right now its painfully short. The shield thing is good but needs to last a lot longer and having them boost damage resistance on the shield would be very nice at higher levels. Especially if knockdown immunity is added as well. The shrapnel grenades are passable but needs more damage even if they do make decent area denial as they are. But they too need a lot more duration to work well in that role.

The artillery is actually one I like as it is and id say it mainly needs more ammo. Since it increases its own damage per shot that will nicely buff it as well. However as far as ive noticed when playing this frame its that the damage of the turret isn't even close to as terrible as people make it out to be here on the forums unless its used against single enemies. If its changed to use mods then make it exalted as at least i would rather avoid having to bring a stat stick primary to make the most out of this. The turrets should also get a duration bump. Say like 30 seconds or so, then despawn when either the duration ends or they run out of ammo. 

Dispensary is fine and really handy whenever you stay in a general area for whatever reason.

The temporal anchor should be reversed when you hold the button to deactivate it so that it will rewind the frame without moving it backwards to make this more useful in more mobile missions. Longer range is needed on the nuke as well.

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