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The Deadlock Protocol: Protea Feedback Megathread

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All DE need to do is to apply the enemy level scaling damage multiplier to Protea’s 1 and 2. It worked wonders for Grendel and Vauban without making them “just another Saryn”. 
 

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8 hours ago, ZukeZima said:

Big Nerf in Base Damage and use Primary Weapon as Stat Sticker

This is a problem. Stat sticks are not good design. If anything, Blaze Artillery should be have a separate modding slot and come with a few polarities. 

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Posted (edited)

Overall Protea does not play very well, her frame abilities don't synergize well with her other abilities or Warframe (the game in general).

Warframe is about always moving and progressing forward - for extermination, rescue, sabotage, capture, disruption, excavation, survival

The a limited amount of modes that really lets us make use of her Dispensary and Temporal Anchor like Interception, Defense and mobile defense.

 

  • PASSIVE - Every 4th Ability cast is granted +100% Ability Strength. 
    • Passive is good, makes me keep an eye out to maximize dispensary or temporal anchor
  • GRENADE FAN - Activate to throw a cluster of shrapnel grenades, damaging and staggering nearby enemies. Hold to emit sticky shield grenades that latch onto allies and restore a large amount of shields. 
    • The ability needs to be a 1-hand ability so we can reload our weapons while spamming 1. At the moment you are forced to choose between using your gun, or spamming this ability. In most cases, my gun is definitely better than Protea's 1 - for damage, aoe, and speed. I'm unable to find the advantage of using Grenade Fan over our normal weapons, except for the shield recovery - but shields still run into the issue with scaling so that limits how useful it is.
    • The ability needs a range buff/duration buff to make it more effective, as a CC/mob clearing
  • BLAZE ARTILLERY - Place a temporary rapid-fire turret that automatically targets enemies. Each successful hit increases its damage, causing projectiles to pierce enemies and hit multiple foes with a single shot. 
    • There are a few issues with blaze artillery
      • The duration is far too short for it to even fire all of the bullets it has
      • This ability has the same issue as Grenade fan - do I spam this ability, or do I use my gun? - this needs to be a 1-hand animation so we can reload/shoot guns while spamming the ability
    • Maybe revamp it to a channeling / cast + duration ability? The turret is part of her butt armor, it doesn't make sense for her to summon so many - it would make more sense to have a really strong turret to accompany her as she moves around
  • DISPENSARY - Deploy a cycling supply cache that can generate Health, Ammo and Energy pickups periodically.
    • The dispenser delay between each drop is too long to make a huge difference in normal gameplay
      • Each drop is about 4s with a chance to drop extra - if you could set-up multiple dispensary that would make it useful, but unfortunately we can only place 1 which really limits the effectiveness of this item outside of defense missions
  • TEMPORAL ANCHOR - Activate to drop an anchor point that records Protea’s state. Any damage dealt to Protea during the Ability will be emitted back to your foes upon deactivation. Deactivating Temporal Anchor will rewind Protea back to the activation point restoring all ammo, energy, shields and health. If Protea is downed while Temporal Anchor is active, Protea will automatically rewind to safety! 
    • Fundamentally useless - Warframe is built around mobility and moving forward in a tileset, an ability that moves you backwards only distances you from the rest of your team. The ability needs to be able to re-wind to a certain point from when you use it, instead of setting a timestamp.
      • For example, if you got hit pretty hard - you can hold onto 4 to revert time back based on how long you hold onto to the ability
      • The ability also needs to work without any cast animation, if you're on the floor after being knocked back, so you can have more flexibility on how to make use of this ability

 

Protea feels extremely out of place, and needs a lot of major tweaks to become fun to play.

At the moment her best strategy seems to be just using temporal anchor and spamming all her abilities then rewind and reset the anchor to repeat until she runs out of energy.

 

It's not really fun interactive gameplay

 

Spam is fun if it's rewarding, but at the moment Protea just has me spamming 1 and 2 in every part of the room to get the most coverage; it's not really fun.

 

Gauss is fun, i use 4 and 2 to boost/buff myself and make controlled speed bursts in specific directions using his 1 ability

Edited by Noobverest
spelling edit
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Posted (edited)

Does not scale over enemy level, has limited bullets, has limited duration that scales with the time needed to fire all bullets so it can easily expire without shooting half of the shots, has limited arc that is unmoddable, has limited range, bonus damage per hit is unmoddable, you can only have 4 turrets at any time.

I forgot to add that it's not accurate too.

Edited by giovanniluca
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2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

This is a problem. Stat sticks are not good design. If anything, Blaze Artillery should be have a separate modding slot and come with a few polarities. 

another forma eater is not a good design

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Protea is a fun frame and shines in lower levels, but later on her 1st and 2nd become pointless.  

Grenades

Some suggestions - Make Hunter Recovery -> Slash damage heals companions instead of just meele. 

This way her 1st ability will have nice synergy with hunter deck. 

Make her Grenades damage scale based on meele counter or something. 

Turret

Turret has a lot of downsides, while its fine in close quarters combat it will miss often in range. What makes it worse it is only builds combo if it hits. 

So essentially it is a "Ranged" ability that does poorly at range. Does Poor Damage. It may not even kill 1 target at highest combo levels.

Maybe having some sort of "Power Meter" system where her grenades build up damage for her turret or something, cause turrets really need a lot of love.

Dispensory

Probably one of the most useless abilities. It has a Duration + static + and takes time to drop 1.... item. 

Recommended Change:  When you "Deploy" Dispensary a "Kill counter" appears similar to Harrow skills. The more you kill during the period of time the more "Dispensory" items are dropped. Once the kill timer finishes the dispensary disperses the items like a "loot explosion" 

 

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Posted (edited)

you guys make no sense. Grineer is not the only faction in this game. blaze artillery completely destroys non armor up to and past level 160. the highest level star chart sees is 120 because of liches. if they buff it by increasing duration it just becomes AFK, if they buff it by scaling with enemy level it becomes completely unbalanced. how about you use your other weapons along side it?

there is nothing wrong with its duration. you can spam turrets for the very small amount of 70 energy just by pressing 4 first. Protea is not a caster DPS frame she is an all rounder support frame. 

Edited by EinheriarJudith

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17 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you guys make no sense. Grineer is not the only faction in this game. blaze artillery completely destroys non armor up to and past level 160. the highest level star chart sees is 120 because of liches. if they buff it by increasing duration it just becomes AFK, if they buff it by scaling with enemy level it becomes completely unbalanced. how about you use your other weapons along side it?

there is nothing wrong with its duration. you can spam turrets for the very small amount of 70 energy just by pressing 4 first. Protea is not a caster DPS frame she is an all rounder support frame. 

Its duration is so horrible, and the ability is filled with so many deficits that it should never have been implemented in the first place. An actual time related ability could have been put in its place or a better engineer related ability.

If she is meant to be a support frame then the duration being as atrocious as it is makes it fail even harder. As then it would mean the heat procs are meant to provide support to strip armor, too bad the turret does not last long enough to even do this nor does it have aoe to spread the procs around to make such a use worthwhile.

Even against unarmored targets the ability fails pretty hard, again due to its garbage duration and lack of damage for its cost. Even against mid level enemies. You have to really spam it to get the most out of it.

It would be more cost effective to run Vauban. He provides far better all rounder support and the dispenser can be replaced with squad restores. His grenades and drones are capable of far more then what protea's entire kit offers.

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10 hours ago, ZukeZima said:

another forma eater is not a good design

Eons better than forcing you to sacrifice and lock you to a weapon to boost the ability. Stat sticks are bad and were the reason moddable Exalted Weapons came to be. Besides, Exalted Weapons rank up fast and rarely need much Forma 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, TankHunter678 said:

Its duration is so horrible, and the ability is filled with so many deficits that it should never have been implemented in the first place. An actual time related ability could have been put in its place or a better engineer related ability.

If she is meant to be a support frame then the duration being as atrocious as it is makes it fail even harder. As then it would mean the heat procs are meant to provide support to strip armor, too bad the turret does not last long enough to even do this nor does it have aoe to spread the procs around to make such a use worthwhile.

Even against unarmored targets the ability fails pretty hard, again due to its garbage duration and lack of damage for its cost. Even against mid level enemies. You have to really spam it to get the most out of it.

It would be more cost effective to run Vauban. He provides far better all rounder support and the dispenser can be replaced with squad restores. His grenades and drones are capable of far more then what protea's entire kit offers.

like what are you even talking about? blaze turrets shots turn into AOE after the first shot. it has no problem spreading fire panic. and also can stack enough heat procs to deal disgusting damage. i could go on to say that this is what fireball for ember should have been.

the duration is fine. i like both protea and vauban, and i like that both have very different playstyle. any boost to blazing artillery will make it unbalanced for every other non armor faction. there is no point in doing that. flechette orb needs that enemy damage scale because it has RNG shooting (which is further limited by LoS) and only deals puncture damage. Heat > Puncture. thats a statement of fact. nasty damage for 35 energy? you are being very silly here. with my 200% STR the 4th turret is psycho on ALL unarmored enemies. as i said previously max level of star chart is 120 because of liches. everything not in the grineer faction turns to ashes. 

she quite easily hands out overshield, and health and energy orbs and ammo. her ult makes all of her ability casts after it just the one time cost of 70 energy because it takes a snapshot of your stats before you used it.

the only issue i have with this frame is that grenade fan suffers the same collision problem zephyr does with airburst, and im not to fond of that hop that she does which plays into the collision problem.

 

Edited by EinheriarJudith

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19 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

like what are you even talking about? blaze turrets shots turn into AOE after the first shot. it has no problem spreading fire panic. and also can stack enough heat procs to deal disgusting damage. i could go on to say that this is what fireball for ember should have been.

the duration is fine. i like both protea and vauban, and i like that both have very different playstyle. any boost to blazing artillery will make it unbalanced for every other non armor faction. there is no point in doing that. flechette orb needs that enemy damage scale because it has RNG shooting (which is further limited by LoS) and only deals puncture damage. Heat > Puncture. thats a statement of fact. nasty damage for 35 energy? you are being very silly here. with my 200% STR the 4th turret is psycho on ALL unarmored enemies. as i said previously max level of star chart is 120 because of liches. everything not in the grineer faction turns to ashes. 

she quite easily hands out overshield, and health and energy orbs and ammo. her ult makes all of her ability casts after it just the one time cost of 70 energy because it takes a snapshot of your stats before you used it.

the only issue i have with this frame is that grenade fan suffers the same collision problem zephyr does with airburst, and im not to fond of that hop that she does which plays into the collision problem.

 

knowing this about the turrets makes me very happy now, i was scared that the turrrets were not going to be a good power. then i learned that we can place more than one, and now i learn that against most enemy types, they shred them to pieces and than burn the remains to ashes.  now im even more hyped for her to arrive on console

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

knowing this about the turrets makes me very happy now, i was scared that the turrrets were not going to be a good power. then i learned that we can place more than one, and now i learn that against most enemy types, they shred them to pieces and than burn the remains to ashes.  now im even more hyped for her to arrive on console

youll absolutely love the mobile playstyle she has. she is also able to make use of mods that go off of health and energy orbs like Equilibrium, health conversion, energy conversion ect.

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26 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

youll absolutely love the mobile playstyle she has. she is also able to make use of mods that go off of health and energy orbs like Equilibrium, health conversion, energy conversion ect.

i actually plan on using arcane pulse and energize with her.  i have a build in mind that most likely wont use those mods, but its only a work in progress cause well... she's not on console yet lol.

 

what i had in mind was the three umbral mods (mainly for the power strength boost, i kinda want those turrets to do a decent amount of damage) prime continuity, prime flow, maybe stretch and the drift mod that increases range as well in the exilus slot.  not sure what to put in the last two slots though.

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I just want it to have infinite duration with ammo limit as it is. Doesn't even have to be good. I'd place it in some empty tiny room near the spawn just to get rid of 2 baguettes hanging on my sides. 

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40 minutes ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

i actually plan on using arcane pulse and energize with her.  i have a build in mind that most likely wont use those mods, but its only a work in progress cause well... she's not on console yet lol.

 

what i had in mind was the three umbral mods (mainly for the power strength boost, i kinda want those turrets to do a decent amount of damage) prime continuity, prime flow, maybe stretch and the drift mod that increases range as well in the exilus slot.  not sure what to put in the last two slots though.

energy conversion gives you ability strength on the next cast after you pick up an energy orb. her kit is heavily based on ability strength and duration.

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7 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

energy conversion gives you ability strength on the next cast after you pick up an energy orb. her kit is heavily based on ability strength and duration.

hmm... i'll add that to my build, and im lucky we just hit a new nightwave, so i will have an umbral forma for her, otherwise i wont be able to fit all 3 umbral mods on her no matter how i build her

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11 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

The main problem with protea is....very low duration skills....need to recast each 15 seconds....ugh. And the turret...very weak in duration/damage.

according to someone else in a different thread, the turrets are actually quite strong, they can apparently shred through lvl 160ish enemies,  its just against heavily armored units that the turrets have issues.   so about 90% of the enemies you will face in a general starchart mission will be cleaned up by 4 turrets 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

Grineer is not the only faction in this game.

yes they are.. because they are the current endgame we face. infested and corpus are a joke by design. they die if you blow air at them...

armored targets are the targets we need to worry about, and nothing else.

 

but thats not even the main issue with protea.. its that her power fantasy and roll fantasy are not fullfilled.. its not about "is this warframe useful" its about "does this warframe feels rewarding to play and is it unique in its design and has stuff you want to play around with"

if all you care for is overshield thats fine, but there are other frames that do that too.. if you care for dispensary thats fine, its an AWESOME ability to use, but what do you even do with all that energy?? exactly.. nothing much meaningfull really..

 

her 4 although with a extremely cool and unique idea has no real purpose in 90% of the cases.. energy saving should not be its main attrraction, when again, her energy spenders aren't even that effective in the first place. its needs to change slightly to make it more usable as described in many other threads.

 

so why do people want to play her? easy.. because she has a freakin turrets my man! The turret playstyle is a HUGE draw in for attention for so many people that love its playstyle, me included, and that is exactly WHY we are so frustrated at how bad it is implemented.

it is probably the worst iteration of a turret in any video game ever made, and thats horrible to say, coming from DE that is SO GOOD at designing cool stuff.

how can you even defend against that argument? the damage I dont even give two damns about.. but if I want to play a turret best girl, I want to place it down and just looking at it Fing things up.. the playstyle we have instead is a super hectic 222222222 look left 22222222 look right 22222222222, or 4!!!2222222221122222222222222222122222222222 she is way to spammy for a turret style warframe which is not want you want when palying her.

thats not the rewarding gameplay I want from a warframe with this design, and most people agree and you just have to accept that.. also why would you be mad about a change? it NEEDS a duration increase in any form what so ever to be a fun and enjoyable warframe in the way its fantasy is suppose to be felt through her eyes.

Edited by SmokinDice
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12 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Yeah the latter is not gonna happen, look at the new Corpus Ship Tileset (and e.g. the Draco Ceres Defense map redesign urgh),
stuffed full of dead angles and obstacles and multiple layers and a partridge and a pear tree, breaking line of sight a dozen times over.

On the other hand, they made an ok Uranus defense tileset after numerous complaints about the original one.

That's basically how it works: DE start looking at something when there are tons of complaints from players. And there aren't many about defense tileset layouts currently because we have a crutch in form of unrestricted AoE. Take it out, and the forums will be flooded. I doubt DE could keep ignoring it.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Xaero said:

On the other hand, they made an ok Uranus defense tileset after numerous complaints about the original one.

Yet they still kept the old one 😛

6 minutes ago, Xaero said:

defense tileset layouts

Mind, my point wasn't specifically for Defense missions, but the whole game.

Overly complicated Tilesets like the new Corpus Ship or e.g. Kuva Fortress are nice to explore in Solo maybe,
but for a horde shooter where you want to rack up lotsa kills fast, it just doesn't work all that well.

Edited by NinjaZeku

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, SmokinDice said:

~snip~

im not mad about changes but those changes do not take into account that Grineer is not the only faction just like you admittedly are refusing to accept this fact. we do have end game corpus. they are in orb valis. level 65+ is equivalent to corpus at 130+ level. i play Protea because she is fun to play and brings a smooth mix of both gunplay and power usage. i got kuva nukor just yesterday and used her to farm murmurs and kill the lich. grineer were at 75-90 when i vanquished it, and i had no issues. power fantasy? you are barking up the wrong tree friend. Protea is an all rounder support, and not a DPS frame. you want a DPS power spamming frame? go play one of the other ones. we have many.

Edited by EinheriarJudith

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4 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

like what are you even talking about? blaze turrets shots turn into AOE after the first shot. it has no problem spreading fire panic. and also can stack enough heat procs to deal disgusting damage. i could go on to say that this is what fireball for ember should have been.

the duration is fine. i like both protea and vauban, and i like that both have very different playstyle. any boost to blazing artillery will make it unbalanced for every other non armor faction. there is no point in doing that. flechette orb needs that enemy damage scale because it has RNG shooting (which is further limited by LoS) and only deals puncture damage. Heat > Puncture. thats a statement of fact. nasty damage for 35 energy? you are being very silly here. with my 200% STR the 4th turret is psycho on ALL unarmored enemies. as i said previously max level of star chart is 120 because of liches. everything not in the grineer faction turns to ashes. 

she quite easily hands out overshield, and health and energy orbs and ammo. her ult makes all of her ability casts after it just the one time cost of 70 energy because it takes a snapshot of your stats before you used it.

the only issue i have with this frame is that grenade fan suffers the same collision problem zephyr does with airburst, and im not to fond of that hop that she does which plays into the collision problem.

 

My experience has been deploying turrets only for them to struggle with groups and that is with investing in power strength, duration, and efficiency so I can spam them. If they do have an AoE then its probably only of use against infested with how they clump due to being dominated by melee units. As against everything else the turret may kill a couple mobs out of the pack but not much else.

The duration is the big thing holding it back, it's so bad that everyone I know just... does not use it. Even with stacking on duration and efficiency. One shot with an Arca Plasmor does more then dumping energy on turrets. Better off spamming the grenade fan to create a stagger field and keep overshields on everyone.

Meanwhile Vauban just throws flechette orbs around and anything that enters their radius just dies, and the orbs last so long that it takes ancient disruptors to actually allow things through the flechette field.

I was interested in the frame because of the turrets. They wound up being the most disappointing thing on a frame with a very lacking kit design that does not mesh with itself. Majorly engineer and then tries to be time mage... where the time mage aspect is only for spamming very lackluster skills.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 you are barking up the wrong tree friend. Protea is an all rounder support, and not a DPS frame. you want a DPS power spamming frame? go play one of the other ones. we have many.

did I not specifically mentioned I do not even care about the damage? are you even reading what other peoples write? with ignorance there is no tree to bark at.

 

grineer is the only faction in the game that is important in your gearing decission, and if you dont see that then you are just a white knight.. bring a corrosive and heat weapon to ANY content in the game and you will shred, all infested, all corpus, and all grineer... now try that with a magnetic weapon, try to effectivly kill grineers with that.. good luck. grineer are supiroir in their defenses to both other races. And I am not even starting about sentients as they are irrelevant again for now.

 

and all the criticism I wrote after had literally nothing to do with that statement above. they were to seperate points. as they are again now

 

and what you dont also understand is that no one is arguing against her viability, of course she can do all the content in the game.. unmodded excalibur can do all content in the game.. because the game is a freaking joke if you want difficulty. thats NOT the point here.

this game is all about power fantasy and feeling GREAT while you slash and mash through hordes of enemys, and while doing this I want to choose one out of 45 available warframes that has a cool and unique playstyle offering me a new way to play..

her turrets are basically a modern first ability.. there is nothing special about them, they are poorly designed, with no real impact, and they FEEL bad to use over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.. the turrets are a spam fiesta deluxe..

and although the titel of this thread is a bit to harmful for my taste, and I rather see some changes instead of renaming it. it DOES bring up some important points.. it is not limited just by duration (which is the main issue) they were SO AFRAID to make it to good that they limited it in not only one but 10 diffrent ways to make it feels worse and worse to a point where it is just not fun to use.

just look at flachette orb and how EVERYONE was amazed at how brilliant it was and how it made vauban INSTANTLY popular and a good frame to use. and flachete orb is better then proteas turrets in EVERY way imaginable. I would use it over the turret in ANY situation and it would be more effective. Longer duration, better area denial, better damage (damage type doesnt matter when it actually does its job well enough) a better 360° angle which is SO MUCH more important in a game where enemys come from all side all the time.. it is just overall superior AND more fun to use and everybody agrees that its amazing. Besides looks, and this is the huge point of disapointment, we finally got a turret that actually looks like a turret but does not act like one or does the worst job of beeing a turret from all other skills that could be considered a turret.

 

and then we have the argument about that they are afraid that the turrets become a afk fire and forget.. yet we have stuff like wukong where he has functionally a literal WALKING turret with INFINITE duration, for LOWER energy cost, that does MILLIONS of damage and can carry me for days while I make myself a sandwitch.. HOW is the argument relevant then?

 

Portea suffers from the same problem right now as revenant has and why so many people dont like him currently.. YES he ticks all the boxes of beeing viable, same as protea does, he has protection he has a room clear, he HAS everything, protea does too.. but again its about the FANTASY behind it and the gameplay feeling.. the main attraction point for revenant is that he can take control of enemys.. yet the controlled enemys do almost nothing of value, do not befenit you in a meaningful way and it even has ANTI SYNERGY with his other abilitys killing them.. you can always just use 1 or 4, but never both.. and the "synergy" it is suppose to have with the rifts is a joke, why do I need rifts that do a little aoe damage when I just killed everything with my reaper from overwatch like skill DIE DIE DIE. when people play revenant they want to control enemys and for it to be worth it. and when people play protea they want to have a turret that actually is a turret and not a glorified fireball with 6 charges...

 

if you dont understand the concept of powerfantasy (which has nothing to do with damage numbers or dps what you like to call it) then you are playing the wrong game, because thats all it comes down to, warframes immensely enjoyable and diverse gameplay.

Edited by SmokinDice

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1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Mind, my point wasn't specifically for Defense missions, but the whole game.

Overly complicated Tilesets like the new Corpus Ship or e.g. Kuva Fortress are nice to explore in Solo maybe,
but for a horde shooter where you want to rack up lotsa kills fast, it just doesn't work all that well.

I can't say tileset layouts matter that much in any gamemode other than defense. It made a difference in Exterminate until DE upped spawns to be higher than required kill amount.

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5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

energy conversion gives you ability strength on the next cast after you pick up an energy orb. her kit is heavily based on ability strength and duration.

Energy conversion is a terrible mod to use on her. Her whole theme is spamming the heck out her abilities so why have a mod that ups str by 50% on a single cast when you can add a str mod that increases it by that much all the time. And the energy from the dispensary is not consistent enough to always have the str boost from it. So its a huge waste of a slot. And she benefits way more from str and range than str and duration. Having high duration just means you have small aoes from all of her abilities, especially Temporal Anchor which is practically equinoxs maim. So a 1million+ damage AoE with low range would be just poor modding.

But to the OP yes the turret is terrible and its better of firing your own weapons than using it at all. And this is true for any faction lvl 70+ I mean a lets say 1000 modded base dmg with a 5x multiplier from the hits is still only dealing 5000 damage! Whats the point of that?? I can dead upwards of like 50k+ from most meta weapons nowadays. I mean thats old school af damage numbers

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