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The Deadlock Protocol: Protea Feedback Megathread

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- Limited ammo. 

- Limited duration.

- Limited number of active turrets. 

- Lmited firing arc .  

- All of the above being unmoddable.  

This is ridiculous. I understand that DE dont want the game to play itself (then why does Saryn still exist?). But just pick some of the above, not all of them.  

Turrets dont even last long enough to fire off all of its ammo.  

Turret number cap is barely relevant because turret dissapear really fast anyway.   

Even while the turret is active theres a solid chance it does nothing because theres nothing in its tiny firing arc.   

The base duration is so low that even if you mod for maximum duration it wont even pass 10 seconds in duration.  

Protea is so damn close to being a good warframe. Just add like 2 extra seconds of duration to her 2, or make it affectdd by mods, and she would be a good warframe.  

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6 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

according to someone else in a different thread, the turrets are actually quite strong, they can apparently shred through lvl 160ish enemies,  its just against heavily armored units that the turrets have issues.   so about 90% of the enemies you will face in a general starchart mission will be cleaned up by 4 turrets 

 

 

There's plenty of discussions elsewhere about Protea's other abilities. I'm less interested in discussing her 1 and 2 abilities because ultimately it's just a matter of numbers. DE can and should adjust the numbers (and add any necessary scaling). That said, I've seen those threads and discussions and I'm not convinced: they all seemed to be using ideal conditions only possible in the Simulacrum. 

Here I'd like to focus on her fourth. This ability is great on defence maps, but terrible in exterminate, sabotage, capture, or any other map that requires constant forward movement. My proposed change would make the ability usable in all maps. This is not a question of numbers, but of design. 

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1 hour ago, CerealPlayer said:

Here I'd like to focus on her fourth. This ability is great on defence maps, but terrible in exterminate, sabotage, capture, or any other map that requires constant forward movement. My proposed change would make the ability usable in all maps. This is not a question of numbers, but of design. 

But have you ever thought that this is a limitation of this ability? It is useful everywhere, but it imposes a restriction on you, therefore you cannot use it all the time.

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

But have you ever thought that this is a limitation of this ability? It is useful everywhere, but it imposes a restriction on you, therefore you cannot use it all the time.

Well, of course it's a limitation. The question is: is it a good limitation?

 

I argue it isn't. One of the central design features behind Warframe is player choice. I strongly believe this limitation reduces, rather than increases choice. Ask yourself:  Would making this change make Protea so overpowered that she'd be the obvious choice for any content? Or rather, would making this change allow Protea to be a viable choice for more mission-types? Does the change increase, or reduce, choice?

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On 2020-06-14 at 9:49 AM, Talaiar said:

Protea's Temporal Anchor needs a hotfix:

 

How it currently works is a mere shadow of what it could be. How Temporal Anchor should work is that you Tap 4 to reverse 'back in time' a few seconds, or Hold 4 to continue reversing through time until either your duration ends, or your Energy runs out.


- Imagine running into a Bombard's rocket, or a Scorpion's Grapple - you tap Temporal Anchor and rewind a second before you got hit.

- Imagine running into a Corpus Laser Door, you cast Temporal Anchor and rewind to before it triggered, resetting the alarm.

- Imagine running into a room full of enemies on a Spy Mission, you cast Temporal Anchor and rewind to before they spotted you, resetting the Alert Level.

- Imagine stealthily breaking into a Spy Vault, hacking the node, then holding Temporal Anchor and watching yourself parkour out of the room in reverse until you are standing outside the entrance door.


You should be able to choose 'how far' you go back in time with Temporal Anchor. It is not only thematically more fun, but it gives much-needed flexibility and capability for Protea to pull off the fantasy of Time Travel.


What this change would fix:
- you would no longer need to "hold 4" to cancel Temporal Anchor when you realize you don't need to go 'back in time'. This would prevent the player from feeling like they wasted the ability (which happens quite a lot).

- you can choose how far you go back in time, which makes the play-experience feel much more free, and plays into the fantasy of Time Travel.

While "continue reversing" seems interesting I don't think interacting with other objects is doable (or at least not in good way). Doing a mission alone would be fine but what about your team squad? Imagine someone pick/mark ayatan and you reverse your (plural) time.

  

On 2020-06-15 at 11:15 AM, Mitranim said:

 

4. Haven't found great uses for the rewind. But what if this was replay instead of rewind? Imagine if this ability recorded Protea's movement, attacks, and ability use, and replayed them all!

I don't think it would be great. In static mission you would redo your abilities but attacks (melee or guns) would be hit or miss. It had to be "intelligent" enough to attack enemies... and I don't see that coming. In less-static mission it would be even worse.

__________________________________________________________

Her 1-3 abilities seems to be not connected to her whole theme.
Her 4th seems interesting, I think we can develop a few interesting game-styles. I've found, for example, infinite heavy attack style. Not perfect, but interesting. And it doesn't require you a lot of mods/focus school.

__________________________________________________________

Custom movement: it seems looks great. It's fast. However it's still rolling. I mean, when you roll you are in ~90% touching the ground. On the other hand, when you use Protea's roll animation you are not touching ground but you still get stuck on a certain element of landscape. You should "jump" over it instead.
---------------------------------------

Dispenser: After some time it's still visible but it won't give you anything. It should give something after it disappear.

---------------------------------------
Artillery: It doesn't shoot some things, like the Nullifier and people inside. It should shoot all things: enemies, cameras, turrets (corpus thing), the Nullifiers. Barrels and such... I'm not sure.
-------------------------------------
Anchor: The rewinding time doesn't work in many cases. It should rewind you when you touch the Nullifier's bubble (e.g. Corpus guys) or when another Corpus guy disables your ability (maybe, because s/he is showing it, so you can escape). When they kill you it should return to the anchor point with the same stats your saved.

(1)Press to put an anchor AND (2)hold to rewind seems the most reasonable option. Doing (1 - press) you would be a tactician. Planning what to do next, maybe spamming some abilities. Doing (2 - hold) would be more flexible and and it could rescue you from sudden situations.

"Hold to rewind time" seems interesting. You would hold 4 to rewind time up to 0 energy. It, however, creates another issue(s). Visually you would make a map full of your copies. It should be somehow reduced (e.g. every 2 seconds). And you shouldn't delete its copies because you should know where to go.

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1 hour ago, CerealPlayer said:

Well, of course it's a limitation. The question is: is it a good limitation?

Speaking in a global sense, I think there is very little meaning in this ability, because everything that gives an anchor, you can get with the first three abilities more easily. It all depends on what Pablo's goal was. But I think the only thing they could do easily is to make sure that the frame doesn't recall the operator when the anchor time runs out.

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DE can you please buff Protea she isn't that strong and then she should be playable then.

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I've been playing a bit with Protea, and I think she is pretty fun.  She needs a few changes, but otherwise she is a fun frame.

I really enjoy the "activate your rewind and spam all of your abilities" play style, so please keep that around.

Honestly, the only real problem I have with her is scaling (or lack thereof), and with the slow pace of the dispenser.  If you were to add level scaling to the grenades, add level scaling and increase the number of turrets that can be out at a time, and have the dispenser pop out its supplies faster (or all at once), I think she would be just about perfect.

Given that you spend so much time casting (and recasting) turrets during your rewind, they need to do enough damage to be worth that time.  Otherwise, why not just shoot your guns instead?

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13 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Eons better than forcing you to sacrifice and lock you to a weapon to boost the ability. Stat sticks are bad and were the reason moddable Exalted Weapons came to be. Besides, Exalted Weapons rank up fast and rarely need much Forma 

is a skill, not a weapon who you equipe, imagine imput forma for ever ability in the game (mod for octavia's mallet, wukong's Celestial Twin, Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm, etc), i get, u dont like stat stick but u no even need change nothing in u weapon if the skill need exaty the same mods... is just a mode to influence the damage type and if u not equipe dat like a exalted (like hildrin do) I no see anypoint to add another forma eater to the game.

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Her shrapnel grenades are useless against anything with armour.

- No damage.

- Stagger CC, so it staggers them out of the CC range after a few staggers - which makes it useless for CC.

 

Her turret is totally F'd right now, and needs to see some serious changes.

- Her turret needs to see it's duration removed or greatly extended. If you use Duration to help stack the damage buff, her turret runs out before it can even consume all the ammo. The turret fires far too slowly to match the tiny duration.

- Her turret can't shoot crowded enemies. Her damage stack on the turret per shot is greatly benefited by shooting groups of enemies, because it stacks a higher multiplier per shot (and if she doesn't stack that multiplier quickly the turret runs out of duration before it can even do any decent damage to anything). However, the auto-aim on the turret just bugs out if enemies are too close (for example if you use Magus Anomaly or Zenurik to group enemies together) - which means you can't make use of this boon. Instead the turret stops firing completely and doesn't shoot anything at all.

- Base damage needs a buff. Max Strength / Duration + crowding enemies (but not too close) is the only way to make this thing do damage - and that limits its range greatly, kills her 1 and 4 and her 3 remains just as mediocre / useless as always.

 

Her 3 is utterly awful.

- It's slow to dispense. Really slow.

- It's static, which means you have to keep going back to it for the drops - which makes it useless for fast-paced modes that have you going all over the place (which is 75% of the game).

- The drops are shared, which means if one person picks it up, it disappears for the whole team.

- It literally serves no purpose in an age where we can craft 100 Pizzas in a minute. It needs to see something done to it that makes it at least remotely worthwhile - don't forget this is an ability that costs 75 ENERGY at base efficiency.

 

Her 4... dependant on the strength of all of the above and her weapons. And it's Blast damage, so unless you're stacking upwards of 500k damage in those few seconds, you won't even tickle an armoured enemy.

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Before skill feedback; BUG: Gara's wall and Frost's bubble stops the rewind. For reference, I was playing a Defense arbitration as client.

I bought Protea and aside from Sorties have been playing her exclusively since her release. She needs some tweaks and synergies to her skills. Also her cast animations need to be quicker.

Grenade Fan:

  • Double base duration and range of shield satellites. I play mostly pubs and it's tough to keep the shields up on teammates because of the small range and short duration. Thanks for adding the orbiting shield visual around allies too. I like playing supports but outside of Wisp- it can seem like my teammates don't feel the support i give, even though it may be true through the numbers. The shield visual around them let's them know they are getting additional shields from Protea, just like Wisp's motes

Blaze Artillery:

  • Slight damage buff. I feel like the skill currently doesn't really add much value to the team. It doesn't need to out-DPS Mesa, just help... better.
  • Make the shots hitscan instead of projectiles with travel time. I don't really mind the timer since the time is based on unloading the full ammo clip. I was helping a friend in Granum Void and by the time her projectiles flew to the spectres, they had floated away. So no damage was dealt, the multiplier didn't increase, and I didn't really help 😞 It really felt like wasted energy...

Dispensary:

  • Make the drop rate be affected by duration mods. Higher duration = quicker drops
  • Add a range to the Dispensary.
    • Artillery in range will consume ammo drops to modify the round. Enemies shot by the modified round are also tethered, slowed and drawn together. Sort of like a thrown Ferrox with some slowing effect thrown in 
    • Shield satellites also block status effects when in range of the Dispensary
  • Right now, the drops are shared among all teammates. So if one ally picks one up, no one else gets the benefit. Seems a bit harsh since I can only have one Dispensary and the drop rate is rather slow... but I am unsure if this is intended or bug.

Temporal Anchor:

  • Make the rewind animation faster
  • Dropping a Dispenser moves the rewind anchor point. Sometimes I don't want to go back. If I have enough energy after spamming skills to cast Dispensary, it seems like a fair cost to move the anchor point. And i will have a new "base". 
  • For flavour, how bout doubling sprint speed while Temporal Anchor is active? She is a time frame... and i can move around quicker to spam skills.
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Posted (edited)

So after playing with Protea I think she needs, a little umpfh, she just needs a few buffs.  I think I have a few ideas for it.

Passive is fine.

Gernade Fan - The Shrapnel grenade feels, weak, petty.  The crowd control is great, but Gara is much better for area of denial, and the damage is, not so great.  I have two ideas for it. (For the held grenade, I think you should throw out one rotating orb that anyone who gets within range can pick up, she throws out 3, Pubs come in groups of 4 plus companions can pick up an orb, just have one that circles with a large range that anyone close by can get like Wisp's motes, and the duration doesn't kick in till they move away, like Wisp's motes.  Remains based on duration as is.)

1) Shrapnel grenade should scale with enemy level much like Vauban's Flechette orb. 

2) Keep the slash proc the same, but every second the grenade emits an AoE blast proc that scales to enemy level and knocks enemies down. 

the first idea for the fix would probably take less effort to implement and feel much better with use, my idea for the second one isn't to change how the grenade deals damage, but make it feel better for overall damage and for better area of denial, keeping them in the radius of the cutting shrapnel. 

Blaze Artillery - Could use some tweaking, I got two ideas but I think they should both be added to Blaze Artillery.  So first, I think the first turret should not be held to the time limit.  It should have infinite duration until it shoot's it's clip.  The other Blaze Artillery are held to the duration.  At the 4th  cast of it the first turret gets a time limit as the new one becomes the primary (Also it fits in with her passive).  I think it should do this so you always got something to rely on, to fall back to, Plus with their fire rate they can burn the clip pretty quick, it would be good for something rounding the corner or if your digging in. 

My second idea for Blaze Artillery is... I'd like the damage to scale, and ontop of that, with the scaling, I think we as players should be able to mod it, like an Exalted Weapon, or let it feed off our main guns.  To give us more control over how the Blaze Artillery behaves.  While the Turret is nice I feel like it lacks overall power or control and forces people to build for Duration to get any sort of real use out of it.

Dispensary - Is fine, no complaints.

Temporal Anchor - Overall it's fine, my only suggestion is, maybe the big detonation is where Protea is standing and maybe smaller chain detonation at each of her recorded 'ghost' points, like a chain of destruction leading back to where she started?

 

Hope this helps!

 

Edited by Frost_King

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Ok, so, no changes this week. Guess we'll have to wait for the next one.

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Posted (edited)

Just finished building her yesterday and formaed her a couple times during the affinity buff. 

I agree with what a lot of other people have already said. 

For her 1: A lot of visual pollution from the damage version if you spam it. Maybe better damage scaling but then limit how many you can have out? Alternatively, maybe just have the grenades float there and only activate their shrapnel animation if there's enemies in range in order to reduce the visuals. Or maybe if they land in the same general area, just refresh the duration of the ones already there and maybe increase their damage up to X stacks in the same spot?

Her 2 is awkward to use. Even with a high duration build they don't last long and you effectively have to spam them to really make use of the ability. Spamming it constantly does fit into her passive I suppose, but it's not great gameplay. The ammo thing is kind of pointless since they just last the same duration regardless of if they fire or not. I think you should increase their base duration and then cap how many you can have at once to get rid of the horrible spam gameplay the current design of this ability encourages. Maybe cap them at 4 and a base duration of like 10 seconds? Cap the multiplier too if you need to, though a longer duration with the current multiplier mechanic could make them scale into higher level enemies better. Currently they do ok up to low 100s, but the limited duration and power scaling likely makes them weak compared to infinite scaling abilities.

edit: if you want to leave this as extremely short duration, I'd at least buff their base range so they at least are more likely to be able to make full use of their limited existence on a wider variety of maps. 

Her 3 is fine.

Her 4 definitely needs something. There's suggestions all over the place and I'm not really sure what the best one is. My issues with it are that in a high duration build, if you aren't paying attention to it it can send you back pretty far and the rewind takes too long. The AoE nuke on rewind is often wasted. Having it active feels like the only real benefit you gain is the death protection proc, which is strong, but that's pretty much the only reason I'd bother to cast it, making it useless/pointless in any content where I'm not at any risk of dying anyway. In a high duration build if you're running around the same area there's also a lot of visual pollution from all the little copies of you along your path. I think it should only show the image of you where you're going to rewind to, not the entire path.  

Some have suggested making it more like a Tracer (from Overwatch) rewind where you just tap it and instantly rewind. I think that could work, but if you did that I'd limit it to 5 seconds that doesn't scale with duration. Maybe to keep duration scaling, have an auto proc if you take fatal damage with a cooldown and have the cooldown scale with duration? 

The suggestion another player had about using another ability like dispenser to change the anchor point could be interesting as well, particularly in long duration builds. If you didn't want to change it as much from the current iteration I think that would be a nice change. It could change your physical position anchor but still restore your energy and what not to whatever it was when you triggered it. Having some other secondary effects while it's up would make pressing the button feel more worthwhile when you're not at risk of dying also. Maybe while it's active it amplifies your other abilities in some way (more damage, faster dispensing) or gives you a speed buff or something? 

Edited by Borg1611
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Posted (edited)

yeah after the math and reading the other posts on her she is simply not worth  the grind or credits

Edited by Orcais
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1 minute ago, Orcais said:

yeah after the math and reading the other posts on her she is simply not worth  the grind 

No, do not be fooled by the amount of feedback. If you look at it a bit more closely you will see thst the common sentiment isnt that she "suck", but that she is "almost good". I heavily recommend trying her out.  

She's extremely fun. Her kit is great. Her gameplay loop is very engaging. She has the potential to be a very good warframe. The main problem is that she's just undertuned.  Protea's identity is a Warframe with somewhat weak abilities but are all highly spammable, and her 4 support that spam. But even then her abilities are too weak right now.  

Shes just need a little bit more of everything. A bit more damage on her 1. A bit more duration and increased turret cap on her 2. A bit faster dispensing on her 3. A bit more radius on her 4 and have it hit through wall.  Altogheter and Protea can become a solid warframe.  

I

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hace 29 minutos, Bakaguya-sama dijo:

No, do not be fooled by the amount of feedback. If you look at it a bit more closely you will see thst the common sentiment isnt that she "suck", but that she is "almost good". I heavily recommend trying her out.  

She's extremely fun. Her kit is great. Her gameplay loop is very engaging. She has the potential to be a very good warframe. The main problem is that she's just undertuned.  Protea's identity is a Warframe with somewhat weak abilities but are all highly spammable, and her 4 support that spam. But even then her abilities are too weak right now.  

Shes just need a little bit more of everything. A bit more damage on her 1. A bit more duration and increased turret cap on her 2. A bit faster dispensing on her 3. A bit more radius on her 4 and have it hit through wall.  Altogheter and Protea can become a solid warframe.  

I

This is very much it. She isn't outright worthless, just almost worth it but...

So, all she needs are some minor number tweaks. 

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1- Better animation, more duration

2- Remove duration, let you drop it far from you in someway, make it faster to have 3 turrets at once in some one.

3- Make it drop all loot in first spawn, put a cooldown on it if you are afraid of people cheesing it for a lot of energy. This would make it better on missions that you don't stay in place.

4- Always recording time (like last 5 sec), can remove negate death.

People complaining about turret damage against low level enemies are just building her wrong, do some QoL for her turrets first.

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On 2020-06-13 at 3:14 PM, Sailears said:

Blaze Artillery - INITIAL CAST AUDIO effect, sounds like someone tapping a drum, which for an ability that has to be spammed personally becomes quite annoying. It would be nice if this initial percussive effect was reduced or changed. The remainder of the audio for this skill is fantastic and I love the sound of the turret firing.

Yeah, this! As someone who's rather sensitive to sounds, that "Drum" beat sound is ungodly annoying.
Protea requires a lot of Ability Spam, and the "Drum" sound quickly starts to feel like someone is smacking me on the sides of the head.
It's enough that I can't stand to play her for more than a mission or two at a time, and is honestly making me question whether or not I want to keep playing her at all.

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Posted (edited)

List of my Suggestions

 

Passive:

No Suggestions

 

1st Ability : Shrapnel/Shield Grenades

Increase Base Duration?

 

Shrapnel Grenades:

No ideas

Shield Grenades:

You should drop 2 Shield Grenades in front of you instead of 3, and the "3rd" grenade is automatically applied onto your Protea. This would mean  you wouldn't have to find where u threw it.

 

2nd Ability : That Turret Thing

Make Damage Scale with enemy level or some sort of positive to casting this? Idk

 

3rd Ability : Dispenser

The ONLY change I can think of is make the drops per person. So my friends dont keep robbing energy I need.

 

4th Ability : Temporal Anchor

[1] Make it so when rewinding, Protea doesn't pick up drops. This would allow you to combine your 3 and 4 easily. As of right now, if you have a cat or a sentinel with vacuum/fetch, you pick up energy before the temporal anchor resets, meaning by time you get back to your 3 you have no energy. This may not make sense but I use my 3 and 4 in the same place, but it makes it hard for me to do so when I run out of duration the energy is reset due to vacuum picking up my Dispensers energy before the 4 can properly deactivate.

[2] Make it so instead of turning your 4 OFF when your HOLD the ability, it instead moves the anchor. For example I HOLD 4, and my anchor is now in the position I held my 4th ability. This would allow for people to make better plays whilst in a game.

[3] This is probably bad, but when entering a nullifier, you should return to your anchors location, instead of the ability just turning off. Cool QOL but not necessary

[4] Make it so you can rewind faster or slower on command. For example whilst rewinding hold shift and it speeds up, let go to slow down

Edited by -LOF-.XinesMC
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As i see, you guys (DE) don't wanna make big changes on Protea, and it is fair enought...

That been the case, i just tasted again after the update, and my conclusion is, second skil just need to be a little bit better...

 

Also, i would enjoy her much more if her 4 didn't have drawn backs on death. Premature interruption is enought and more alined to the lore, loose HP and knock down is too much, it make the skill almost worthless.

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For Blaze Artillery, a way to focus down on an enemy (aim with reticle then cast to place turret) would be great. Let us select an enemy at the far end of a crowd to maximize hits per shot.

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Posted (edited)

Protea buffs and/or reworks when?

 


1's tap effect is OKAY for CC, but is useless for much else beyond lvl.50... Shield gate effect of the held 1 is more useful than the recharge, doesn't really help her or others SURVIVE at levels where enemies can rip it off in an instant... If anything is to be done, I'd say double the base range and duration of her tap-1...

And make her held-1's range higher to allow easier pickings from allies bouncing around the map. Furthermore, making them last for longer on the ground and ONLY starting to count down the buff timer upon being picked up would be nice, since otherwise using them is pretty minimal in effect when tossed in front of herself in solo. Even in a team, since folks don't typically coordinate for such a minor buff...

It's pretty worthless, as it'll at most give them a slight overshield before running out, totally negated the shield-gate benefits.

Furthermore, the hop animation for casting? No one likes it. The ability is low-cost, low-potency... Make it easier to spam.
Only give us that hop animation if cast mid-air, please. It's terribly delayed even with a mod to cut down on it.

 


2 is garbage still, the radius is limited AND the reach is affected heavily by negatives applied such as the commonly-used "Narrow Minded". A lil bit of range via mods help but... The damage is terrible even after stacking four of them at once. Doesn't scale and after lvl.120, it starts to have trouble taking down ANY heavy unit.
Also, why bother giving it "ammo" if it's just gonna be a passively-draining DURation bar?
If Protea is going to use her 2 to lock down tight angles and positions, AT LEAST make it so that it'll only drain said ammo while shooting!

It already has a limit of what, 4 total not-turrets that you can place at a time, right? To give it such a limitation on placement totals, while also claiming it has ammo AND it having a set fire-rate is absurd and redundant, all the worse as not only does it not scale, the maximum possible DURation it can achieve is so bad I can't even LAUGH. it's sheerly depressing.

 


3 is okay, about the most simply handy item in her kit... If she had ANY real reason to use it? Like, what point is there in gaining energy orbs if the powers she can use are all mediocre or worse?

 


Protea's 4... Gods, I want to love it, but it's just so bad. Firstly, on its own:
It has a short DURation and much like the rest of her kit, requires you stuff as much DURation into her build as possible to make use of. It also has a VERY high cost, which seems to indicate it should be a very potent skill.
HOWEVER... Instead, it seems a very slightly beneficial ability, with several negative points both for itself AND the rest of her kit. If she drops to 0 HP while 4 is recording, it ends instantly and sends her back to the initial-use position with the energy cost of the skill drained AND a fraction of her HP so low she WILL die if hit by any enemy at lvl.80 in seconds. Worse, it knocks her down and basically makes it a guarantee that this will occur. All the energy orbs, health orbs and ammo she picks up while recording is also reverted to the initial state minus the cost of the 4's use itself.
IE: No matter what she picks up while running her 4, Protea will always have LESS resources than when she started using the ability.

Now, we get to the INVERSE-SYNERGY issue. Protea's 4, as mentioned, reverts ALL GAINS from pickups she grabbed while it was recording. This includes the drops her 3 generate.
And if you're running [Vacuum] on your floaty pal -Chances being you very likely do!- then you're extremely likely to pick up those drops while running around.
The point of this is to... What, spam her abilities and spend it? Keep in mind, her 2 is useless beyond low level mob-mop ups in a VERY limited angle of fire... And her 1 is low-cost to start with, while also doing basically nothing but CC or offering a very short-lived recharge buff with a side of slight shield-gate-duration-up.

Heck, even WHILE MID-REWIND, a state in which you can't use abilities or shoot, you STILL pick up any drop you pass on the way back to your initial cast position.
This means that Protea constantly grabs and eats up energy orbs, yet has no reason or worth in spending them while in her 4's active state beyond spam-tapping 1 for CC.
Worse, she'll end up with less energy by the time her 4 ends regardless of whether you set down her 3 or not.

If anything, it's a waste of time AND energy to use, as it'd be better to just spam-tap her 1 and pick up energy from her 3, rather than revert with less resources post-4.

As such, while her 4 is cool and fun in concept, the way it essentially negates HP/energy pickups after it rewinds is both detrimental on a singular-use level AND when it's applied as a concept of counter-synergy when glancing over how her 3 functions in its drops.
At best, her 4 is handy for Archgun ammo conservation via spam of said 'gun... But on the whole, Archguns SUCK when compared to almost any primary weapon. Even if one were to say "but rivens can make them better", the same can be said of primary weapons.

And at its worst... Protea's 4 delets potential resources from the map, reverts her to a worse energy-total state and if she dies while it's active -which will occur more often in higher-level content and the longer she's running it- it leaves her not with LESS HP, but almost none, while simultaneously leaving her on the ground waiting for the coup de grâce.

 

OH, right. I also forgot to mention, so I'll say it at the end: Protea's 4 doesn't work with the "Quick Thinking" mod. If she drops to 0, it'll end her 4 and kick her to a fraction of her health as usual.
And with the drained energy post-use... Well, needless to say it makes it much harder to extend the active lifespan of her already-questionable 4's use.

Edited by skullkid558
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Posted (edited)
On 2020-06-11 at 4:44 PM, ixidron92 said:

Anybody else who believes the turret should have a duration in seconds rather than shots fired raise your hands. 

Or ya know... Remove the duration-based drain, just let it have its ammo capacity as-written.

You can only place a set amount, anyways. Either you replace one or it runs out of ammo after firing into enemies that walk in front of it after a while and it vanishes on its own. The duration is totally unnecessary and counter-productive as the entire point of the ability is to lock down small zones within a limited angle of fire.

Basically, it's supposed to be a choke-point skill... But the passive "ammo drain" kills it.

 

That and the terrible damage scaling against high-level enemies and heavies, of course.

Edited by skullkid558

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Didn't realize before that there was a hard limit of 3 turrets on top of the ammo and duration. Seems like at least one of those things really should change. The combination of that many limitations seems redundant as others mentioned. Removing ammo and just making it a duration with a limit of 3 would let them get to a higher combo counter to scale better. Increasing the base duration would also let it scale higher. 

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