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The Deadlock Protocol: Protea Feedback Megathread

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So here's two suggestions that I think would really work for Protea:

Passive - Added functionality: When activated, it sets power efficiency to 200%, removing energy costs for the next cast.

This is just to improve her spammability, simultaneously offsetting her lowered energy reserves and bolstering the value of the energy trickle provided by Dispensary.

Temporal Anchor - Removed functionality: No longer implodes for 25% damage at the end. 
Added functionality: Damage dealt is translated into a power duration increase which lasts until the rewind begins.

This would be a much more interesting and engaging effect than having an implosion go off on a location that you won't be able to engage with due to being pulled back. It would also partly fix the issues people have with her 1 and 2 by potentially massively upping their durations.

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My 2 cents for changes;

Lower the scaling on Blaze Artillery, but raise the base damage and duration significantly. 2 seconds base duration is pathetic and forcing us into insane duration builds just to make her feel functional is terrible. More than half the shots it fires are awful until it gets the damage multiplier, and it has a terrible habit of targetting enemies through walls and wasting shots. Better duration and damage but a lower multiplier effect would be much more satisfying and consistent.

Make Dispensary more reactive to the situation. If I'm on full health and ammo, don't make me stand around and wait for 20-30 seconds for energy orbs which at that point still only returns the energy spent on it. A 75 energy cost ability should at least have energy orbs with higher values like her health orbs.

Temporal Anchor. Honestly I really despise this ability. It takes damage dealt and quarters it, and deals it in a mediocre damage type. Aside from that the rewind is just awful. PLEASE keep the rewind on the duration expiring and being downed, but on manual cast have the after-images rush forwards to Protea and restore her stats without taking her 30+ seconds back in the level which MOST of the time is a bad thing. PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO FIX THIS ABILITY WITH AUGMENTS WHEN THE BASE EFFECT IS POOR. Also, being rewound to having almost 0 health and knocked down is more often than not a death sentence anyway, really should raise that health closer to 50% max than 5%.

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Protea's Satellite Shield needs to hover way above from where it is hovering now on Excavators. This way we can know when it is active on the Excavators (since the ability has a ridiculously low duration, we have to recast it on a constant basis).
The way it is doing now we can barely know if Sattelite Shield is active on a given Excavator if we are more than 3 meters away from it, because the grenade just hovers on foot level, when it is not clipping on the mesh.

Protea.png

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Posted (edited)

I actually quite like Temporal Anchor in that it is what makes Protea unique. On linear missions when speed is of the essence is isn't very helpful, of course, but at other times it is nice that it rewards forward planning as, when thoughtfully placed, it can be a very useful repositioning device or recall point. (My current lich is probably well sick of it by now!) Running lich missions and not getting anyone join - as is sadly too often the case - I also found it great for marking a safe point, diving into a particularly dangerous room then winding back. It has great synergy with the Twin Basolk's rift strike too - either for in-and-out strikes or, if timed correctly, preventing relocation due to rewind. Perhaps some options on cast; say, tap to have echoes catch up as per anarchy753's suggestion above and hold to rewind after the duration as per current?

For a time manipulation frame, however, I would prefer her other abilities to be more time-y rather than Vauban 2.0. At the moment she seems to have a rather confused identity. Working with them as they are, however:

Her 1 is difficult to aim and, while the alternate shield option is very handy, it would be less clunky if it were applied directly to the squad rather than having to be picked up (plus wondering if the desired type registered correctly). The damage option isn't that strong, either.

Her 2 is a decent idea but needs serious buffing in terms of damage and duration.

Her 3 is OK - but still outclassed by Wisp's 1, so very mediocre for a 3rd ability with the associated energy cost.

 

Alternatively go for 3 more time-y abilities, e.g. one could be something like 'borrowed time' - release an outward wave that slows enemies and accelerates allies caught in its radius (or as an aura following Protea), either wholly or partially such as fire-rate, so it sits neatly between Volt, Nova and Wisp's similar abilities while maintaining its on distinctiveness.

Or if you wanted to do something really cool, give her one 'time travel' type ability - such as her current 4 - then make 3 other time-y abilities that have their own effect, but when used in conjunction with the 'time travel' ability gain additional effects based on common time-travel concepts, e.g. chrono-cloning, paradox damage. The more abilities (and which ones) you combine during your 'time travel' duration, the crazier the added effects. Also because the additional effects would be delayed, the player would have to plan ahead, making a frame that is tricky to master but powerful when you do (and probably suited more to higher-level missions where enemies aren't already dead from squad-mates) - or just give the added effects immediately, a bit like Gauss. If power-limitation is needed, the player could take self-damage/self-stun from the paradox caused by combining too much too much while time travelling.

Edited by Cyba_Zero
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I've been playing with Protea these last few days (like everyone else), and I have the impression that she is underperforming the way she is now.

- Her passive : ok for me, not great, not terrible. Because of the low duration on most of her kit, we have to recast abilities all the time, and because of that I end up losing many +strength windows.

- Grenade Fan: underperforming a lot because of extremely low base duration.  We have to make crazy duration builds to make it almost usable, but even then they don't last for a decent ammount of time. The base duration must be buffed, and not by a band-aid augment. The fact that unused Sattelite Shields lose the same duration as if it was on use already doesn't help either. The "hop" animation Protea does when casting it is horrible though, it makes aiming where we want Shrapnel Vortex a living hell.

- Blaze Artillery: I really don't get why this ability is so short lived. It has very limited ammo, and it disappears when the shots are not used. To me, the range is ok-ish, but the low duration is atrocious. The damage should scale with enemy level though. Compare this with Vauban's Flechette Orb, which has a much higher duration, infinite ammo and scales with enemy level (and before someone says it has very limited range, Vauban has more than one way of dragging enemies to face his Flechette Orbs, Protea can't do the same with Blaze Artillery).
I mean, I know the whole "the game isn't supposed to play itself" thing, but neither Vauban (Flechette Orb) nor Wukong (Celestial Twin, which is a turret on steroids if you give him a good weapon) break the game with their abilities, why is this one so absurdely short lived?

- Dispensary: ok for me, but it should give itens based on what the player needs, not random things. We end up with tons of useless ammo pickups on the ground while waiting for the RNG bless of an energy pickup.

- Temporal Anchor : I'm seeing this more as a "Leeroy Jenkins mode with safety measures (kinda)" than of a way to deal damage with the explosion. the damage at the end is bad, and of a bad damage type (Blast). The fact that if we die we get teleported back to where we started with 5% health and our bums facing up for the enemies to shoot at makes it a death sentence either way though.

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I do like the idea to tie Dispensary closer to the rest of her kit than just having it supply the spam.

  • Aim and cast 1 on the cache to have the grenades directly pop out from it in the triangle formation.
  • Put 2 near the cache to have it prolong duration (only disappear when the cache does). Ammo packs are used to resupply empty turrets at 3 ammo per pack.
  • Cast 4 then 3 to move the anchor to the cache, a great idea by another forum member.

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Posted (edited)

The big problem with protea is the duration of skill 1 and 2 and turrets needs some reworks...its too fast, low damage and liimited angle.

shield need to be minimum 30 seconds....with primed continuity go for 12 seconds of duration...its nothing!

Edited by Luciole77

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Posted (edited)

The camera movement should not be locked when rewinding the Temporal Anchor. If you move your mouse during the rewind animation, you have to lift and reposition it in its natural center position when the animation ends.

It's generally a good idea to have as little things as possible throwing muscular memory off like that. 

Edited by lukaself

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Not sure if this is a bug - Blaze Artillery seems to not fire at enemies impaled by Nezha's Divine Spears. Kind of weird, they just sit there and do nothing.

On a separate note regarding Temporal Anchor - I am finding the screen colour drain/desaturation to be excessive - especially in lighter areas or with various effects going off all over the place. Especially for an ability that you are encouraged to stay in often for various reasons - it becomes annoying to be seeing everything in this desaturated, almost sepia-like dullness for extended periods of time.

Would be nice if this effect could be reduced or changed in some way so the game's vibrant colours can be better enjoyed - still providing the player with a visual cue that they are in Temporal Anchor, but without draining all the colour from the screen. Eg, maybe the effect could be more of a vignette with this colour fade into the edges of the screen, but normal colours towards the centre.

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Protea's 1 and 3 are neat abilities but they needs meatier abilities to back them up and neither turret nor rewind do that.

  • Turret does way too little damage. I'm not bothered by the duration and I do understand where it being so low comes from. But right now I could instead of casting it just fire my weapons during that time and get more done. It simply isnt worth the casting time. I suggest letting it scale off mods, ideally secondary mods.
  • Her rewind is pretty pointless and has pretty much no synergy with anything she does. Normally it would invite to spamming abilities but none of her other abilities are spammable. On top of that having to place an anchor ruins all quick 'get out of danger' applications. Now how do I think it could be improved? 

    - Remove the need to place an anchor, whenever you activate it, it should just rewind you a set amount of time. This should also rewind duration of all her abilities but keep the damage multiplier her turrets already gained.

    - Reduce the amount of time it rewinds but in turn, whenever she rewinds, send out a phantom version of Protea that does all combat actions you did before hitting rewind. So if i melee strike something, place a turret, shoot my gun and then hit rewind, I'm back to where i rewinded but a phantom version of myself does all those actions again. I then would move the explosion that happens on rewind currently the the end point of the phantom doing the actions, with the damage depending on the damage you dealt originally and the damage the phantom did. This would move the rewind to be much more combat oriented. I would set the rewind duration to something like 4 seconds.

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There have been a lot of replies based on balance of her abilities, but I just wanted so say my piece about how the frame actually feels to play: She feels incredible. 

Every aspect of her kits feels good to use.

The slight upward momentum you get when casting her 1 feels smooth and wonderful. It allows you to aim glide above the battlefield, spamming grenades and maintaining flight for a good while, and in practice this feels great. 

Her 2 feels powerful and is quick to deploy. Dropping it and seeing it immediately start blasting with those nice animations is just butter smooth. It really does feel like a 'delete button' for a small group of enemies.

The audio tech used on her 4 is also very nice. Seeing yourself rewind is incredibly satisfying.

If nothing else, the designers did a fantastic job of making Protea feel fun to play. 

Balance wise, honestly, I think the change that would be the most helpful would just be to make her 2 stick around until it runs out of ammo, and modding for duration increases the amount of shots. Still keep it capped at 3. This way, you could drop one in a hallway, and know that (at least for a tiny bit) that area would be covered. This would maintain its distance from the 'no auto turrets' design decision DE wants to stick to, since it would only be around for a few seconds once it starts firing. 

 

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Really surprised to see so many people say this kit is terrible, just wondering if its not their cup of tea. Overall loving the frame but it definitely needs the tiniest of buffs. The damage output should be stronger. I look at Wisp and see a very strong support frame that also deals massive damage in her 3 and 4.

 

  1. Grenade Fan 
    • Shrapnel Vortex - Fine as is.
    • Shield Satellites
      • Problem: Hard to apply to allies even when spamming 4-5 times in a row
      • Problem: Breaks when your shield breaks leaving you defenseless in your most critical moments
      • Problem: Multiple steps to acquire shield boost (hold delay, animation delay, landing animation delay, then finally you can pick them up)
      • Suggested Fix: Make the Shield Satellites not a pickup but rather auto apply in affinity range
      • Suggested Fix: Shield satellites are disabled while your shield is broken, but kick in again once your shield regenerates on its own
  2. Blaze Artillery
    • Problem: These do amazing damage once the multiplier is high enough, but once they reach 9-10x they're already done
    • Suggested Fix: Have +strength increase the starting modifier (+x strength would have it start at 6x for instance)
  3. Dispensary
    • Problem: Extremely easy to lose where it is on the map, allies won't even know its there
    • Suggested Fix: Make it larger visually, and aesthetically it should match the frame better (what is it??)
  4. Temporal Anchor
    • Problem: The "cherry on top" damage it deals at the end is very useless in both the amount of damage done and how it would be used
    • Solution: Change the damage type, or mark enemies with a debuff that makes them take increased damage for the duration you were rewinding
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I'm enjoying Protea.  She does a lot of damage for the content I play.  I've taken her into sorties, railjack, ESO, and requiem fissures.  And she has kept up fun, if not exceeded others.

 

For her 1, I wish it could cast more fluidly.  The little hop is fun at first, but messes with movement and momentum.  It's hard to aim, and it's hard to time.  I get a lot of ABILITY IN USE messages, even when I'm being careful.

 

For her 4, it's so much fun.  It's even useful in missions where it might seem like a hindrance, like capture and extraction.  I use it as my "Oh, someone found an ayatan" button.  I save my place, head back to get it, then rewind to where I saved.  I've posted about its rewind getting blocked by allied wall abilities.  Also, the damage it deals when triggered is easy to miss.  I wonder how it would work if it also dealt that damage to anything near her entire path.  Would that be broken?

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So, apparently you can't refresh the shield pickup duration if you have it active already. Many times I've thrown the grenades on the ground thinking that I had picked it, since it refreshes the duration that the grenades stay on the ground, just to see that I had no more shields and the three grenades on the ground... I know it gives you a big amount of shields when you first pick it up, so you guys could make it so that when you would pick it up again, it just replenishes the duration of your active shield satellite. It would be a big QoL improvement.

Sorry for grammar mistakes if there are any.

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10 hours ago, p_silveira said:

Excavators

And Defense targets.

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hace 2 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

As we pass our 7 day mark since the launch of The Deadlock Protocol on PC, our hands are busy at work making changes based on great player feedback! We hope to provide Protea with both visual improvements as well as touching on some Ability mechanic improvements. We’re aiming to slip this in before Console Cert as well so our Console Tenno can enjoy an improved version of Protea!


Grenade Fan

  • Increased Duration of both grenades by 3 seconds.
  • Increased Range of both grenades at max rank from 4 to 5 meters.
    • For Shield Satellite, this applies to the grenade pickup Range.
  • Increased Shield Satellite grenade count from 3 to 4 to accommodate max Squad sizes.
  • Increased visibility FX on available Shield Satellite grenades to aid in differentiating between the two grenades.
  • Doubled the Damage of the Shrapnel Vortex grenade.
  • Fixed Protea's Grenade Fan/ Shield Satellites appearing giant while using Archwing.

Our goal here is to improve efficacy, usability, and logic of Grenade Fan! 

Blaze Artillery

  • Increased Duration of Blaze Artillery by 1 second, and doubled the Damage multiplier to compete against higher level enemies. Duration will now show in Arsenal stats instead of the maximum number of shots.
  • Protea’s Blaze Artillery will now shoot through Volt’s Shield, but won't benefit from its buffs.
  • Fixed Protea’s Blaze Artillery not targeting ragdolled enemies. 

Our goal here is to keep the spirit of the rapid fire Artillery alive, with just a bit more punch. We will monitor for feedback after this change as well. 

Dispensary

  • Protea’s Dispensary location is now displayed on the minimap in the form of the Ability icon.
    • Similar to Wisp’s Reservoirs! 

Temporal Anchor

  • Protea is now invulnerable for the first 3 seconds of Temporal Anchor (i.e on cast, to prevent casting animation deaths).

This invulnerability window is an important add based on all the ways players have used Temporal Anchor thus far - that key survivability reaction should include invulnerability. 

We look forward to your feedback on these changes after they are live! 

So, turret will still suck. Simply put, even if the ability is good - which it'll probably be with the damage boost - having an ability that you need to constantly refresh every 4 seconds is bad game designing. Worst if you have to do it 3 times every 4 seconds. Hell, even if it's a godlike ability, the constant button mashing is not worth it.

Player comfort is a a thing that influences ability usage whether you like it or not. Many times I found myself not using an ability of certain frames simply because it's too clunky or too annoying to use. Take Wisps 4 for example. It's a good ability, deals decent damage, and I even have a dedicated cookie-cutter build for it, but I simply don't use it because it's too clunky. The VFX is annoying, the sound is annoying, it obstructs vision, you can't jump, you can't use other abilities or weapons. A low-duration turret is just more of the same. Might have great numbers, might even devastate the enemy, but if it's not comfortable to use, it's not worth it. 

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Thanks for Protea. She's really good. But a few changes could make her great:

- scaling angle with ability range for her 2nd;

- individual drops for her 3 (not 1 sphere for all squad members);

- more range or more damage (or both) for her 4th explosion;

- and what I'd like more is some synergy like Gauss, Gara or Visp have. For example turrets deals more damage if used when 4th is active, or activating Anchor in some area around despensary restores all energy, or more damage from 4th explosion (or/and from turrets) for enemies with fire or/and slash statuses or activating abilities again for free while moving back to anchor or whatever - there are so much options

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Tested after Update 28.0.5

Passive: It's ok. Not great but not bad. Only lacking in terms of creativity.

#1 Grenade Fan: I like the power. But there are some small problems with the shield version. It's almost impossible to target the grenades and you often end up giving the buff to a kubrow or kavat instead of a player or defense target.

#2 Blaze Artillery: It's a good power but it's really boring to use. The two things I don't like are the complete lack of interactivity and how spam-focused the power is. I understand you spam it because of her passive and fourth power, but there should at least be an option to allow the player to make one stronger turret with longer duration instead of three weaker ones. Spamming fire and forget powers is really boring and the the really short duration means you barely even see the power working.

#3 Dispensary: It's ok. Not the most exciting power ever but it does the job.

#4 Temporal Anchor: I love the idea and visuals on this power but I almost never use it. And that's because the effect this power has on gameplay is incredibly small for the amount of energy it costs and visual spectacle it provides. Hildryn's #4 makes her fly. Gauss' #4 supercharges his abilities and stats. But Protea's #4 doesn't really do anything until it ends. And that's just not exciting. The power needs to have a more direct effect on what is happening around you right when you cast it. It needs to have an impact.

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Not sure if this has been mentioned but I was thinking that if her turrets could crit then arcane avenger could be a nice additional end-game damage buffing option. They didn't seem to be affected by it in the simulacrum though.

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Posted (edited)

Apparently Sattelite Shield attatches itself to Saryn's Molt as well. Needless to mention how much this is useless / a loss of a useful grenade.

protea-2.png

Edited by p_silveira
Typos.

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12 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

  I wonder how it would work if it also dealt that damage to anything near her entire path.  Would that be broken?

Nice idea. Whole "path" idea seems to "fix" not able to see a damage. You could also stagger enemies. It would be something like trap.

I have been thinking about something else. Something more fit for her theme. I think it was bug. When I rewinded I saw enemies frozen... but I could still hear their voices. I think when I start to shoot, they started moving. If her 4th rewinding could case enemies near the path (e.g. 2 m) to be frozen till someone shoot... or interact with them, then it would be interesting. It the path, after you rewinded to the anchor, should last not too long. I guess 2-5, 1 second per every 5 seconds rewinding. Plus 1 second... to make it "ok".

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-06-17 at 10:35 PM, BurningPenguin6 said:

Yeah, this! As someone who's rather sensitive to sounds, that "Drum" beat sound is ungodly annoying.
Protea requires a lot of Ability Spam, and the "Drum" sound quickly starts to feel like someone is smacking me on the sides of the head.
It's enough that I can't stand to play her for more than a mission or two at a time, and is honestly making me question whether or not I want to keep playing her at all.

I think I figured it out.

Protea has the 1-2-3-4 battery passive, and you can only have limited artillery out at once...

 

...she's meant to be Octavia's drummer! xD Tapping out the beat with her Blaze Artillery, while Octavia brings the tunes.

 

(joking though, I still don't like it and hope to see it changed)

Edited by Sailears

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I have read about half the player feedback, and a large number of people already articulate my views better than I would so I will keep this short.

The bottom line is, once the hype is gone, I think players will simply never use Protea (except maybe at low to mid MR levels). She incorporates a lot of good ideas but she does not do anything particularly well and her abilities are underwhelming. Data will be there to prove me right or wrong eventually...

Passive - Realistically, players will likely just ignore it most of the time while spamming her abilities. I have seen suggestions that could make sense in this thread, though I do not think this makes or breaks the frame.
Grenade Fan - In my opinion, perhaps the more useable ability, with Shield Satellites in particular, even if some fine tuning could also make sense (e.g. the jump and pick-up).
Blaze Artillery - I like the idea but I think the ability is absolutely useless as currently implemented for any content relevant to a high-ish MR player.
Dispensary - In need of a buff too.
Temporal Anchor - I believe the ability does not fit the game as currently implemented. Not sure how feasible a rewind upon activation would be but that's the only way I think it could have some use while still fitting the lore and quest.

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23 hours ago, Vaizrin said:

Suggested Fix: Have +strength increase the starting modifier (+x strength would have it start at 6x for instance)

Good idea.

Or have the Bonus Damage Duration Scale with Ability Duration, like a combo meter. If you keep casting Guns, the combo keeps going and the damage multiplier stays at a higher number. 

Or, Turrets do Slash and Heat Procs when target is in Shrapnel Grenade. 

Or, Bonus Damage number never goes down during Temporal Anchor.

 

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1 hour ago, Snowpoint-Prime said:

Good idea.

Or have the Bonus Damage Duration Scale with Ability Duration, like a combo meter. If you keep casting Guns, the combo keeps going and the damage multiplier stays at a higher number. 

Or, Turrets do Slash and Heat Procs when target is in Shrapnel Grenade. 

Or, Bonus Damage number never goes down during Temporal Anchor.

 

Those are definitely options as well. There's many ways to fix the turret without changing its  core.

Even with the changes coming that we know of, the wind-up time on the guns will still be a little too long. I'd love to see some kind of higher starting multiplier, especially if you're investing in strength (would enable max strength builds to be viable).

The last idea, bonus damage number doesn't go down during temporal anchor is seriously brilliant though. It adds synergy between skills, would directly buff the 4, fits the theme of the frame and skill, and would also directly buff the 2. My only question becomes - is this multiplier capped or will you just end up doing broken amounts of damage because of it? lol

Add that in, and make the grenades deploy and effective faster, and the frame really comes together.

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