The Deadlock Protocol: Re-Imagined Corpus Tileset Feedback Megathread

[Colyeses]

Granum voids are balanced for mesa. Halve the required kills per rank.

[Domaik]

The new tileset rework is amazing but there need to be MORE nodes with these tilesets. It's  a shame to see so little and barely be able to find a mission of the type that you'd like in the new tilset.

For example spy: there's only one in pluto with the new tileset. I love seeing the new vaults but I hate seeing the amazing rework and pipe systems and everything just to have them permanently closed and unusable because the node is too high level. previously low level spy nodes had all ways open and it was cool to see these things. now all the work is for nothing, most people will miss half of the reworked areas because there aren't enough tilesets to experience them at all the possible level ranges

[EinheriarJudith]

i like the revamped tileset even more than jupiters revamp.what i dont like is the bad spawn rate of enemies in survival. these new rooms are quite large and have many pathways. spawn mechanic on these new tilesets need an overhaul.

[Krilexis]

Love the new tileset 🙂 

The only thing Ive found so far is the cameras having an insane detection range when in front. Its around 20 meters maybe more.

New somachords for the music would be awesome Ive identified at least 2 musics but not sure.

[Laxativus]

The new tileset is really nice. Really cool to navigate them and feel that they are somehow familiar yet new.
My only grievance is how many cameras there are. This is umpteenth time that I say to myself that DE really need to learn the difference between challenging and annoying/obnoxious. (Grendel missions jump out instantly as a particular example, but I'd also put nullifiers and some very poor sorties in here - like killing Lephantis with only bow.) Do having so many cameras add anything - either challenge or entertainment?
But otherwise, truly, it's a lovely design that looks really great.

[Frendh]

The new spy missions are much too easy for me. I would be glad if you scaled it with levels. For instance, increasing laser barrier speed with higher levels like in Sorties.

The base difficulty should be at least what it was before. Was still easy with the old tileset.

[Wret]

Everything is very pretty, especially that big fountain pyramid thing, but I also feel like everything went too temple-like and the feel of the original tileset is a bit too distant. I kind of want some tiles that are more cramped cargo hauler in there, tiles that are primarily the narrow maintenance type tiles. It might be nice to have a set for smaller, dinky Corpus ships, and the flagships are the temples. That said I did notice that the tiles may be based less on the old Corpus ship and more on the Infested Corpus ship. I really don't want cramped spaces to vanish completely, nice as the new larger ones are.

I was also very happy to see the ship exploding return to Sabotage, and the ability to turn off all the power. My first experience in the game was the old sea urchin reactor sabotage with the lights going out and the timer and it made an impression.

Others have mentioned the Treasurers are kind of annoying, and that it's partly because of the damage gating mechanic that's never mentioned anywhere in the game. You really need to codify as the only people who know about it and which enemies have it are those who check the wiki religiously, or hear about it by chance(Or whine in Region I guess). Perhaps some sort of indication on the health bar.

Also the Granum Void things...they're not hard, but sometimes when you're in there with 3 people, there's just not enough specters or time drops. So you just lose because the game wasn't feeling up to it. There's also not alot of variety between the 3 tiers, they could use some spicing. Also something to make the side objective more appealing to people who have everything, like a mission-long buff.

 

I think the captured Solaris randomly strewn throughout the tileset are meant for people who have already grinded the Granum Void and have no more use for the crowns, but it is kind of sad and weird there's no other way to get them down than this thing you can only get one of a mission. "Hey buddy controls are over RIGHT THERE, YOU CAN TOTALLY JUST HIT A BUTTON well they're gone"

It's just a slight downer

[Nyekomimi]

I absolutely love this new tileset. Only got two things to point out.

One, the Captured Solaris. Please, please give them something more than just standing. As someone noticed, Sunny Pobber is as valuable as Solaris if you spend cheap coin... Maybe make them give you single Debt Bond or piece of common Orb Vallis resource? Something symbolic to show gratitude.

Other, the Steles... dear lord the Steles. Amazing concept, until I hit the shrine again and see... 1000 credits. Please, please let us have duplicates. It doesn't need to be new lore, just make it roll for random duplicate if you have complete set. The game already gave two "Bury The Past" in row in two concurrent runs, so it's not like it's binary 0-1 for how many tablets you own... Giving us more than one would let people make their own shrine rooms as well as keep set for themselves while donating to clan - this is what pains me most, because I'd love to donate to clan, but I simply can't because it'd mean I'd lose this content forever.

[Lazarow]

About Granum Void mission T3:

The Mortuus Shoulder Guard is an okay cosmetic, but I keep getting it over and over again and its basically a wasted reward. Make it so when the player has the armor already they cant get it again and instead the reward gets rerolled to be any other reward from the pool

[Nyekomimi]

One more thing I forgot to mention in above post - Please, either increase drop rate of decorative coins or let us trade them.

[akots]

I just had a kuva flood sabotage on the new tile and the siphon was placed well past the reactor half way to extraction. It was still possible to make it before blowout but it was a close call with 15 seconds left. Not a bug but please reconsider placing caches and siphons similar to syndicate medallions before the reactor checkpoint.

[EinheriarJudith]

56 minutes ago, akots said:

I just had a kuva flood sabotage on the new tile and the siphon was placed well past the reactor half way to extraction. It was still possible to make it before blowout but it was a close call with 15 seconds left. Not a bug but please reconsider placing caches and siphons similar to syndicate medallions before the reactor checkpoint.

you can find all these things before even starting the reactor meltdown. i used sabo to farm protea since with survival you dont even get the choice to prevent any kind of countdown. all i did was get to the reactor area and wait for the treasurer. 

[Vicidomini]

One thing about Spy missions that I enjoyed was that there was always a way to avoid hacking all the doors on the way in to the target. But that appears to have been removed in the spy mission shaped like a n with two long hallways of lasers. It's just a single route with no secret passages.

Other than that, some of my usual routes are blocked, but I don't really mind them cause there's still a way in without hacking for the rest of them most of the time.

In addition, a bunch of doors no longer unlock after the final hack, making the walk back a bit bothersome. 

[Aurora3500]

Overall I really like this update. The new corpus ships feel more big and it feels less cramped as a result ontop of really feeling futuristic. I've been enjoying this tileset alongside Jupiter that it actually makes me reluctant to go back to corpus ice planet or outpost tilesets. The new Corpus enemies are interesting and spice things up. Especially the Elite Crewman carrying Supras and there being several versions of Moas.

I also enjoy how it expands a bit more on Fortuna and the Solaris which is currently one of my favorite player friendly factions in the game. Fortuna is still my favorite update to have experienced in Warframe and it feels like the Jovian Concord and now the Deadlock Protocol have helped to expand on that.

The Granum Void is an interesting new mission type, but I think it could use some improvements. The time limit feels strict compared to how many kills are needed to get the tier 3 rewards where it makes only using a few Warframes viable. In addition the Xoris mechanic is difficult to use to free Solaris prisoners where you need to kill the specters. It is also difficult to kill with the Xoris since the specters are floating off the ground. I imagine it will be worked out in the coming weeks to be smoother overall.

For the Treasurers it would be better if they could spawn sooner. In capture missions especially, it feels strange needing to wait near the exit until the treasurer will spawn.

On the lore Parvos Granum is a very interesting character and it was fun to play the new ship to learn more about the origins of the Corpus. I enjoy the way we had to unlock the lore by donating crowns and would like to see similar methods used to obtain lore in future reworks or new tilesets and factions.

It feels like this was a great update overall. It has been the most interesting recent one and has helped get me back into the game after a small hiatus. Corpus have been getting a lot of love and it has been great for fleshing out the faction to have a similar amount of depth that the Grineer does in terms of enemies, tilesets, and the open worlds. The past few updates including Railjack and Scarlet Spear didn't get me as excited. I hope to see more tileset reworks like this if not new planets/space stations. Now I'm eager to see Hard Mode come soon. It will also help a lot for experiencing the new ships a lot.

[CthuluIsSpy]

Can you please make the Granum void mission end when you reach the max number of kills? Having to wait 30 seconds doing nothing after killing everything you need to is kind of boring.

Also, it feels like the difficulty is too high for the reward. Having to kill 150 enemies in one minute for a small chance to get the weapon / frame part you need is pretty exhausting.

I also noticed that the sabotage timer doesn't stop when you are in the void, which directly contradicts the main questline.

[Buff00n]

I like the remastered Spy vaults.  However, two of them in particular seem to have bugs with which vents/floors are open at which levels.

• The one with the two hallways full of lasers seems to be on easy mode regardless of the level.  Even in Sorties the floor on the second hallways is always closed.
• The one with the glass cage in the middle of the room is also always on easy mode.  In Sorties the grates in the back stairwell that allow you to bypass the lasers around the door are always breakable, allowing you to waltz straight through this vault.

I have another thread with more details and screenshots:

A third vault has issues with the doors unlocking after the vault is completed.  It's the one with two basic paths depending on whether the door on the left or the door on the right at the beginning is open.  More details in this thread:

I should also add that the camera in this vault in the left-side room on the ceiling will spot you through pillars, and it will also see you very far down the vent on the left.  This camera is a jerk.

Otherwise I quite enjoy the new vaults.  They are the same basic feel but roomier.

[Randomeer]

The time drops in Granum Void are rather difficult to see among the sea of similarly colored stuff, please mark them. Especially when similarly functioning pickups like Life Support drops are marked.

[Kainosh]

On 2020-06-10 at 1:10 AM, [DE]Bear said:

We would like to know what you think about the new layouts, how different game modes work out, and the overall design.

 

1) Defense. Mode where you fight tough, perilous waves in order to protect Objective from quick and painful decimation, right?

Doesn't feel like defense.  Especially when map is big and enemies scarce.....it feels empty, boring...you literally wait for it to end.   And rewards are not really worth it.

   Remove that "5 second wave delay" from rewardless waves.  Make that "objective elevator" move during waves (I don't know why its even there tbh...doesn't do sht to actual gameplay)

       Add Demolyst enemies and other "objective destroyers". 

         Make some aerial paths. Drones will fly there while dropping bombs on the Objective. Like a Drone highway.   High speed. Hard to hit. Nice

          Some wave variation.  There are 5 per reward. Spawn 400 moas on 1st, and 2nd will be Drone swarm + 2 Demo units. Just example.

 

What was that fuss about "objective healing" even?   No enemy can damage objective consistently enough to even consider this sht....   and no unit can "penetrate" Tenno defenses if we go a bit serious...

 

 2) Spy.  Mode where you avoid traps, alarms and enemies in order to steal info.    

Level design is the most important part here...not laser color or panel shape.   I totally expected some improvement to these Old vaults...a bit harder laser grids, some more routes added...

Instead, you made lasers slow and easily avoidable because hiding spots are HUGE now.  Its much easier now while still OLD. That's nothing to be happy about.

[limernest]

I'm generally happy with the rework. Aesthetically, the new Corpus Ship fits the Orb Vallis base aesthetic more, which is nice. Given both were tied to Nef Anyo that may make more sense. Although, lorewise, does this mean the entire Corpus fleet from Venus to Pluto belongs to Anyo now? Seems odd given how different planets are tied to different Corpus board members, but I digress. When enemies are unalerted, they interact with machines, they use consoles, they sit and relax. Makes it feel like an actual place where Corpus Crewmen actually live and work, which makes sense given the whole Megacorp theme of the corpus overall. The invulnerable Corpus treasurers using consoles in their glass boxes is also nice, although I find it odd that they don't seem to react to us or all the mayhem that's going on around them. The new Corpus fighters that appear in some rooms also seem to hint at future Corpus railjack enemies as well.

Gameplay wise, overall tiles seem much bigger and straighter with no more annoying elevators, which is good for easy navigation. No more breakable glass windows is also nice. The tileset variety seems to have gone down a lot though, I see the same corridors and main rooms a lot more now. Number of containers and lockers has also gone down which is unfortunate for loot hunters as well.

I do have several complaints though.

1. Please make cameras appear nearer to the relevant laser doors. Previously, cameras appeared directly above the doors, making it easy to see if the lasers were on even before you passed through. Now, it seems much harder to predict whether lasers are on or off (and hence whether you can run through safely or roll through). Range of cameras seems way too high now as well.
2. Please remove the forced mission fail timer for sabotage on meltdown mode, especially on missions with side objectives like Kuva Siphons, or make the Siphons spawn before the reactor room every time.
3. Please open up more of the secret passage vents in Rescue and Spy. Currently at the max level, almost all the fastest routes that were previously available are all closed off, forcing players to do the obvious frontal route which is often way more risky. Seems counterproductive.
4. Enemy variety is often inconsistent. Juno Corpus are meant to be the main enemies on ships, but if you join an invasion or a mission on Jupiter you'll see regular Corpus or Vapos Corpus spawning in. This seems to happen more often in the Sabotage reactor room.
5. Health, Shield and EHP values seem to vary wildly among different Corpus "types". Why are Juno Corpus so much tankier than regular Corpus? Please look through and standardize the health and shield values for equivalent Corpus units. For example, a regular Tech has different health and shields than a Vapos Tech, a  Vapos Tech Ranger, a Juno Tech, Terra Crewmen etc. Same goes for Nullifiers, Snipers, all Crewmen types.

On a side note, please remove friendship doors from all missions, or make them able to be bypassed solo by hacking both consoles or something. They are an annoying hard stop to mission flow and I sincerely hope they are gone sooner rather than later.

[Aquebus]

Limbo isn't very useful in the new tile sets. The hazards hurt you when you're inside the rift, unsure if this is a bug or on purpose. Either way as an avid user of limbo, I want to bypass hazards without dying.

[Chu-Chu]

Rescuing the fortuna captives more often than not is not worth spending any manner of coin. The standing reward is too little.

Removing the cost and(perhaps) hiding them better in the tiles for the keen eye/the dedicated fortuna supporter would feel more rewarding to do.

And on this note, could syndicate operatives receive similar treatment? Have allied(or even enemy) syndicate operatives locked away behind locked doors in secret areas, and upon releasing them they help you in the mission/ you can eliminate them and receive standing for it. It would help make syndicates feel more involved and organic.

 

[Zaiben]

DE, that thing you did where you took a perfectly fine and well beloved tileset and removed it from the game? Don't ever do that crap again.

I'm actually impressed at how much I hate the replacement. The new tileset itself is ok, a little mediocre, but a Far cry from the old. Call me biased, but the old corpus ship was my second favorite tileset in the game, so I was wary but this is definitely no Jupiter rework. For that matter, I think it would have been ok as a tileset for a specific planet or for new corpus ship nodes, but instead it took a well established design (that frankly was better) and in trying to replace it ended up missing some points of what made it great in the first place.

For me, the old tileset was crisp, clean, uniform, with high visibility, incredibly intuitive, and quick to maneuver around. Rooms had some vertical space but mostly flat flooring so the space gave way for defensive acrobatics when you stay but you can leave in a hurry if need be. The consistency and cleanness of its appearance made it rather quick to pick up and learn, and it generally only had a few flaws like the broken window lockdowns.

But this? Let's start with the design: it's bipolar and can't decide what color to be. One room the primary lighting and color is blue, then the next room is orange, then the next is blue, then orange, then blue with a Bright orange spot. Yes, you can have more than one color for a map, but don't change it every room. The orange rooms make it feel like they were made as part of some Jupiter tiles when most are expecting that crisp blue consistency that the ships have always maintained. In addition, I don't know if this is the exact graphical thing, might be from lighting, but half the rooms seem to have some sort of faint fog to them which kills a lot of the clarity that the old tiles had. There's really not a reason I shouldn't be able to see clearly from one end of the room to the other. I know some people probably wanted to go fancy with some new light rendering toys but it's really not working out well here, probably best to save that for the open world areas.

The general scale also seems off. While it may have been the intent to make the rooms feel larger, instead it just feels like the player is smaller, and slower as a result since we're not able to speed through those corridors quite as quickly. This being compounded when some rooms have pointless overhangs that an overzealous jump might clear, only to find yourself wedged between a window and a walkway, so you sigh and jump out before continuing on. There are some nice open spaces in some rooms but then with walkways and tunnels hidden below, now navigating some of them feels like a chore, trying to find a way through a maze compared to what was once two bullet jumps at most to reach a clearly visible door. Many of the rooms are line-of-sight nightmares where a player would almost rather bring a nuke frame to not have to deal with hunting enemies weaving between crates that are two walkways down. Do you want people to play more nuke frames? Because that's how you encourage nuke frames.

One result of these things (among others) is there feels to be a lot of visual noise with the designs. I would say the increasing visual noise has been a growing problem with the newer corpus designs in general as of late, but it feels like it's reached a peak with this tileset. The weariness of frustrating navigation, the confused color design, the lack of clarity, it just adds up and makes the experience as a whole unpleasant. Had it stuck with a more orange color, it could easily pass as corpus ship missions strictly for Jupiter and I'd say would be alright to replace those and leave the rest untouched, but that wasn't the case.

It's getting late so I need to cut this short here. I've been rather patient with the last year's back to back blunders, but I'm at a point where I've been evaluating whether or not it's worth dropping any further money. The only thing I've every really disliked is Nightwave turning the game into a second job (the second Intermission lasting all those days was the best thing to have happened for my interest in the game), but then this? This is unacceptable. I know it's likely to not come back, but I would add myself to those asking to bring back the old tileset atleast in some form or fashion. But I will say this. If the corpus snow mountain tileset gets the same treatment as the ship tileset, I'm done with this game. That tileset is perfect and needs to remain untouched.

[DeltaPangaea]

As for the tileset rework itself? I like it. It looks pretty. Could do with some variety so not every corpus ship in the sector belongs to Nef and is kitted out with his face and exultations to Granum, but y'know.

My biggest beef though? The Solaris captives. I love the dialogue on them, stuff like yelling threats at thin air, or musing on the metal their restraints are made of... but come the hell on. This is set up to make you feel bad in the most exploitative way. You can get ONE crown at most per level. You can quite easily get two or even three Solari captives. So even if you WERE going to spend all your crowns freeing them (And thus cast any hope of the Granum Void to the winds) even THEN you're gonna have to walk away from a bunch.

Why do these restraints need Crowns to open in the first place? Why does Solaris U care what type of Crown I used when the thing they care about is 'person came home'? And why do they give so LITTLE? Oh yes, you freed a loving husband from certain death, we now appreciate you more equivalent to saving a rat on the Vallis.

Crowns honestly feel like the kind of thing we could just fork over to SU for bargaining chips, give 'em to Ticker like debt bonds, while Solaris captives in missions we should just be able to save at no cost. 100 each you find at no cost would be nice and I wouldn't have to leave the poor #*!%s alone to die. Sorry cove, I'd love to save you, but I'm trying for the Void. Or I already spent my crowns and I literally cannot get more without finding more of you to not save.

Please do something about this state of affairs.

[DrivaMain]

On 2020-06-17 at 2:13 PM, Zaiben said:

DE, that thing you did where you took a perfectly fine and well beloved tileset and removed it from the game? Don't ever do that crap again.

I'm actually impressed at how much I hate the replacement. The new tileset itself is ok, a little mediocre, but a Far cry from the old. Call me biased, but the old corpus ship was my second favorite tileset in the game, so I was wary but this is definitely no Jupiter rework. For that matter, I think it would have been ok as a tileset for a specific planet or for new corpus ship nodes, but instead it took a well established design (that frankly was better) and in trying to replace it ended up missing some points of what made it great in the first place.

For me, the old tileset was crisp, clean, uniform, with high visibility, incredibly intuitive, and quick to maneuver around. Rooms had some vertical space but mostly flat flooring so the space gave way for defensive acrobatics when you stay but you can leave in a hurry if need be. The consistency and cleanness of its appearance made it rather quick to pick up and learn, and it generally only had a few flaws like the broken window lockdowns.

But this? Let's start with the design: it's bipolar and can't decide what color to be. One room the primary lighting and color is blue, then the next room is orange, then the next is blue, then orange, then blue with a Bright orange spot. Yes, you can have more than one color for a map, but don't change it every room. The orange rooms make it feel like they were made as part of some Jupiter tiles when most are expecting that crisp blue consistency that the ships have always maintained. In addition, I don't know if this is the exact graphical thing, might be from lighting, but half the rooms seem to have some sort of faint fog to them which kills a lot of the clarity that the old tiles had. There's really not a reason I shouldn't be able to see clearly from one end of the room to the other. I know some people probably wanted to go fancy with some new light rendering toys but it's really not working out well here, probably best to save that for the open world areas.

The general scale also seems off. While it may have been the intent to make the rooms feel larger, instead it just feels like the player is smaller, and slower as a result since we're not able to speed through those corridors quite as quickly. This being compounded when some rooms have pointless overhangs that an overzealous jump might clear, only to find yourself wedged between a window and a walkway, so you sigh and jump out before continuing on. There are some nice open spaces in some rooms but then with walkways and tunnels hidden below, now navigating some of them feels like a chore, trying to find a way through a maze compared to what was once two bullet jumps at most to reach a clearly visible door. Many of the rooms are line-of-sight nightmares where a player would almost rather bring a nuke frame to not have to deal with hunting enemies weaving between crates that are two walkways down. Do you want people to play more nuke frames? Because that's how you encourage nuke frames.

One result of these things (among others) is there feels to be a lot of visual noise with the designs. I would say the increasing visual noise has been a growing problem with the newer corpus designs in general as of late, but it feels like it's reached a peak with this tileset. The weariness of frustrating navigation, the confused color design, the lack of clarity, it just adds up and makes the experience as a whole unpleasant. Had it stuck with a more orange color, it could easily pass as corpus ship missions strictly for Jupiter and I'd say would be alright to replace those and leave the rest untouched, but that wasn't the case.

It's getting late so I need to cut this short here. I've been rather patient with the last year's back to back blunders, but I'm at a point where I've been evaluating whether or not it's worth dropping any further money. The only thing I've every really disliked is Nightwave turning the game into a second job (the second Intermission lasting all those days was the best thing to have happened for my interest in the game), but then this? This is unacceptable. I know it's likely to not come back, but I would add myself to those asking to bring back the old tileset atleast in some form or fashion. But I will say this. If the corpus snow mountain tileset gets the same treatment as the ship tileset, I'm done with this game. That tileset is perfect and needs to remain untouched.

This is one huge unpopular opinion. But I suggest you consider quitting now. Corpus Outpost and Corpus Ice Planet is next on the rework list.

Regarding Granum Void. Please do not force me to bring the Xoris if I want to complete this with a warframe that is not MESA. Give us another way to free the captives and capture the specter particles that is not strictly exclusive to the Xoris.

[Kainosh]

On 2020-06-10 at 1:10 AM, [DE]Bear said:

how different game modes work out

I forgot to mention Extermination    

The only goal here is to kill.    Why are enemies so normal?   No increased Eximus spawns....No special units... 

This one gotta have much harder enemies than any other mission type.  Because its about killing. Killing is the focus here. It must feel awesome. It must be challenging.   

 

 Also, I like that crewmen now do various stuff when unalerted....But these animations conflict with Stealth finishers.   Some of us do Stealth runs, yes.

Drones still have no finisher animations btw.   That, and "key targets" like Capture target or that new "Coin guy" ….these have no stealth interactions too.  They "see" you even if whole level is unalerted and you never triggered any alarms.  You cant do a sneak attack on them for at least SOME damage.  They just Deny any stealth by default, not even with some special device or such...they just magically know that you are here and that's lame.