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The Jackal 2.0 a great start for the next generation


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3 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

So the first boss of the star chart will now be one of the most needlessly drawn out ones?

Second.

We also actually don't know 100% where they'll be. All the demos have placed it at much higher levels - this trailer appears to be from a Sortie, and the original devstream put it at level 50. So it might have been placed later down the line.

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1 hour ago, akrid45 said:

Honestly sometimes it really feels like this community want Bosses to be like the sergeant just so the grind gets easier 

Bosses are interpreted by few developers as enemies with thicker shell resistant to certain attacks. Other developers simply think about those as target practice with a red target saying shoot here. I've seen video games where the game itself doesn't tell you where to hit the boss. Good designed bosses are very hard to find in the industry. Fromsoft understood quite well how to make them. 

 

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If you guys don't know this masterpiece of a Dark Sector trailer killing a Pre-Jackal with a head stab-hack, you should watch it. I consider the Jackal revamp a direct reference to this video.  (Warning, it's the first early premises of Warframe, 2005. It's old, might hurt your eye, but warm you heart)



I think the use of Parazon as invulnerability-phase/interactive-cutscene is a great move instead of having just one of them (invul phase from lech kril, or interactive cut scene from exploiter orb)

Also ; remember the Jovian Concord. The update was quite stable from the new maps, new challenges (parkour), and new ennemies, but the Ropalolyst had a bunch of bugs. Jackal might be a bug fest too, hence the 7 days Jackal-Sortie to test it thouroughly.

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9 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

That's still 12 out of 43 (Including Protea).

For profti taker: Solo chroma

For exploiter orb: Solo amesha

For speedruns: Wukong

For long survivals nekros/khora

Why you still talking about eidolon balance, when you actually compared to the other "endgame" content in the game have much, much more options

You can use 3 amps, 12 warframes as dps ..

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2 hours ago, akrid45 said:

Honestly sometimes it really feels like this community want Bosses to be like the sergeant just so the grind gets easier 

Honestly the problem is, Warframe doesn't know how to design their bosses. They are just seeing what works, the new jackal looks nice, yes. But like what Volty said it lacks the free form of Combat. DOING what you want to the boss, and having the boss reward you for it is how you make boss fights. The Jackal rework is a big example of a rework that is one step forward 3 steps back. Finishers work in games like God of War, because its a story based game. Warframe isn't so when you are spamming a mission over and over again the cut-scenes become old and repetitive. Nero from DMC has finishers but you have the option to do so. The keyword here is option, when you remove options you are forcing a player to do something, and not what you want to do because then you have folks here that complain that the fight is drawn out. Thats why DMC is infinitely re playable because of choice. As much as I like the animations for the jackal boss fight, I dislike having my hand removed from the game.

Profit-Taker is the best example of this, you fight her you clear her shields, she rewards you by getting to the next stage you whip out your archgun and you do damage to her legs, it doesn't remove player control. Exploiter is the worst case of this because not only does she not really put up a fight like Profit-Taker, her minions don't do anything. Her is the worst fight after the Sergeant because she isn't a fight. You are telling me fighting exploiter is better than profit-taker when you can do this?
Get your head out of that orange juice you're chucking at her, DE wasted her potential.

And then don't even get me started on the fact that, the jackal node isn't even a co-op mission with this rework, just another rush to the boss and kill it. DE, doesn't learn.

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1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

If you guys don't know this masterpiece of a Dark Sector trailer killing a Pre-Jackal with a head stab-hack, you should watch it. I consider the Jackal revamp a direct reference to this video.  (Warning, it's the first early premises of Warframe, 2005. It's old, might hurt your eye, but warm you heart)



I think the use of Parazon as invulnerability-phase/interactive-cutscene is a great move instead of having just one of them (invul phase from lech kril, or interactive cut scene from exploiter orb)

Also ; remember the Jovian Concord. The update was quite stable from the new maps, new challenges (parkour), and new ennemies, but the Ropalolyst had a bunch of bugs. Jackal might be a bug fest too, hence the 7 days Jackal-Sortie to test it thouroughly.

Hnh. When I first saw it unveiled on a devstream, I was actually reminded of: 
 

 

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16 minutes ago, _Behemot said:

Honestly the problem is, Warframe doesn't know how to design their bosses. They are just seeing what works, the new jackal looks nice, yes. But like what Volty said it lacks the free form of Combat. DOING what you want to the boss, and having the boss reward you for it is how you make boss fights. The Jackal rework is a big example of a rework that is one step forward 3 steps back. Finishers work in games like God of War, because its a story based game. Warframe isn't so when you are spamming a mission over and over again the cut-scenes become old and repetitive. Nero from DMC has finishers but you have the option to do so. The keyword here is option, when you remove options you are forcing a player to do something, and not what you want to do because then you have folks here that complain that the fight is drawn out. Thats why DMC is infinitely re playable because of choice. As much as I like the animations for the jackal boss fight, I dislike having my hand removed from the game.

Profit-Taker is the best example of this, you fight her you clear her shields, she rewards you by getting to the next stage you whip out your archgun and you do damage to her legs, it doesn't remove player control. Exploiter is the worst case of this because not only does she not really put up a fight like Profit-Taker, her minions don't do anything. Her is the worst fight after the Sergeant because she isn't a fight. You are telling me fighting exploiter is better than profit-taker when you can do this?
Get your head out of that orange juice you're chucking at her, DE wasted her potential.

And then don't even get me started on the fact that, the jackal node isn't even a co-op mission with this rework, just another rush to the boss and kill it. DE, doesn't learn.

I definitely enjoy fighting Exploiter Orb because she comes with story, compared to Profit Orb which feels more sterile.

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It will be fun for the first time after that all it does is making Rhino grind worse.

And people will 100% complain the invulnerable stage.

It's just another Kela making what was once EZ a horrible grind hell.

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Just now, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

I definitely enjoy fighting Exploiter Orb because she comes with story, compared to Profit Orb which feels more sterile.

Story has nothing to do with how the fight plays out, you can have story and still have a good boss fight. If I was suppose to compare MHW Shara Ishvalda's story quest to Exploiter Orb, Shara ishvalda would win because it has both story and fighting aspects locked down. Profit-Taker has story, you just haven't looked for it through Little Ducks Codex entries and through  PT's missions prior to her boss fight.

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1 minute ago, _Behemot said:

Story has nothing to do with how the fight plays out, you can have story and still have a good boss fight. If I was suppose to compare MHW Shara Ishvalda's story quest to Exploiter Orb, Shara ishvalda would win because it has both story and fighting aspects locked down. Profit-Taker has story, you just haven't looked for it through Little Ducks Codex entries and through  PT's missions prior to her boss fight.

With Exploiter Orb, you get the story of what she did and what defeating the orb means to Rude Zuud and the people of Fortuna. I'll take that over the sterile Profit Orb. 
 

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15 hours ago, Voltage said:

A same with Kela De Thaym.

You really have a fetish for standing on floor switches and shooting things, don't you? 'Cause that's the entirety of Kela's bossfight. If you're doing it right, she's dead before she even stands up from her landing.

Tyl is just a matter of shooting a couple trash units then swatting and otherwise swatting him each time he pops up.

None of the starchart bosses are particularly interesting or fun to fight.

Ditto Exploiter.

Ditto Profit Taker.

Ditto eidolons.

Warframe doesn't have the mechanics to make for a good a bossfight, and there honestly wouldn't be much lost at all if their most useful maneuvers and attacks were plundered and spread out among their regular faction enemies and most of the bosses kicked down the road.

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il y a 1 minute, TheGrimCorsair a dit :

None of the starchart bosses are particularly interesting or fun to fight.

Ditto Exploiter.

Ditto Profit Taker.

Ditto eidolons.

Warframe doesn't have the mechanics to make for a good a bossfight

I find those bosses interesting, fun, and good. It's a point of view. It doesn't have to be shared, and you cannot suggest everybody should agree with your own opinion.

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That Dark Sector frame should make a comeback and be part of the game for Excalibur. We have to get it, of course with slight updates, but that skin is awesome with few teaks. 

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22 часа назад, (XB1)C11H22O11 сказал:

I'm glad the fight will require people to use the brain, bosses are supposed to be taken more seriously than a grineer lancer

New Jackal does not require brain, it is same old Jackal fight with new extra steps)

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22 minutes ago, (XB1)EPOSSTYLE said:

But does it move around... if not fail!!!!!

Doesn't seem so. Tactical Potato posted a video of the fight and, well, aside from hovering for an attack and moving to another room in a cutscene, he seems to stay stationary. 

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4 hours ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Doesn't seem so. Tactical Potato posted a video of the fight and, well, aside from hovering for an attack and moving to another room in a cutscene, he seems to stay stationary. 

Now that the next generation aired, the PS5 of course, DE should buckle up a bit and press harder on their delivery. Horizion Zero Dawn is a standard for boss fights. I'm perplexed that DE never got the time to delve into such game. Every encounter of large enemies there is almost a boss fight with micro management. I think a division of programmers and designers should review the boss fights in this game. 

Are they important once the player got what he wanted? Yes. This game is co op but is not team based. The boss fight is the opportunity to change that. 

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Just now, Felsagger said:

Now that the next generation aired, the PS5 of course, DE should buckle up a bit and press harder on their delivery. Horizion Zero Dawn is a standard for boss fights. I'm perplexed that DE never got the time to delve into such game. Every encounter of large enemies there is almost a boss fight with micro management. I think a division of programmers and designers should review the boss fights in this game. 

Are they important once the player got what he wanted? Yes. This game is co op but is not team based. The boss fight is the opportunity to change that. 

I think employees have played it, I think Danielle has played it before. As for the members who actually determine what gets added into a game, no idea if they've played it. Even if they have, maybe they're stuck in the mentality of their typical boss fights, or the engine can't handle more than what they've done already. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

I think employees have played it, I think Danielle has played it before. As for the members who actually determine what gets added into a game, no idea if they've played it. Even if they have, maybe they're stuck in the mentality of their typical boss fights, or the engine can't handle more than what they've done already. 

I'm not sure if their engine can sign a check they can't cash. But it seems that their engine is hurting them a bit on that area. I'm not a game designer, something that I'm trying to be in the future, but I honestly think that their engine IS NOT the problem. The problem here is the MINDSET. Guerrilla Games are not afraid of using the Mumakils from lord of the rings for a full fight: 

Horizon Zero 2: 

And Guerrilla Games understood that boss fights ARE the meat of their game:

Not one, but two furious bosses in a fight. 

This is a game that I have and play. The player should keep track in his mind the pursuit curve and the orientation of the robot. Otherwise the player is done. It is a chess mental game. 

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