Banshee, the most outdated Warframe of all with only one ability that is worth using; Sonar

[Tiltskillet]

41 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Savage Silence makes her 3 incredible

I mean, a 3 second finisher that you have to reset by getting enemies out of your range... I really don't know how you can consider that incredible, Excalibur can do that in a single flash, stun enemies longer and finish them as long as the blind last.

The finishers are good and potentially great.  But the lynchpin of the augment for me is that stunned enemies are subject to the stealth melee damage bonus with regular attacks.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

I agree that Banshee could use more synergy and that her 1 and 4 should apply status effects. However she is far from outdated. It really comes down to how you go about playing her and what mission you are doing. Survival isn't the only endless mission.

The 1 and 3 work well together, the 1 with the augment is great against anyone with armor. The 4 is great in Defense, disruption, interception and excavation with a team. Without a team then slap on the augment. The 3 on short duration can lock down a map the 3 and 4 (with augment) will lock down a map. 

Relentless Zen's video was just one option and he states that. Also the game is based around more than just the warframes, with the operator and arcanes that they just enhance what she can already do. 

With that being said as I stated in the beginning if her abilities applied the status effects (and they should) it would increase her survivability, as well as the use of the abilities. Banshee's 1 would have a increased recovery time because of the impact proc and the 4 would make her very hard to target because the stacking blast damage would remove the enemies accuracy that with her 3 active makes her almost untargetable.

However that's just my opinion, I'm not saying that anyone is wrong in their opinion just that I play her quite successfully and don't agree that she is outdated or useless. Like I said I believe her abilities should apply the status effect that's it (maybe have her 1 and 4 synergies with her 2 just a thought).

Also I forgot to add that her 1 and 4 are great in defections as well. So is she the best no but she is far from useless and those abilities have there place in more situations than they or she are given credit for. Quality of life fixes as I have mentioned is all she requires if anything.

Edited June 11, 2020 by (PS4)Zero-0-P
Just forgot a point

[Leuca]

Would like to see sonic boom have some additional utility and have the CC be more controlled/predictable.

Silence isn't even used the way it was originally designed to be, which is kind of laughable; it's basically just a gimmick for free damage. It should silence all weapons within its range for you and allies, and make enemies unable to be alerted by any sounds that would emanate from or reach its ability range.

Soundquake is just demonstrably bad after level 30-50.

Her passive could be completely changed if Silence made sense.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

5 hours ago, Leuca said:

Would like to see sonic boom have some additional utility and have the CC be more controlled/predictable.

Silence isn't even used the way it was originally designed to be, which is kind of laughable; it's basically just a gimmick for free damage. It should silence all weapons within its range for you and allies, and make enemies unable to be alerted by any sounds that would emanate from or reach its ability range.

Soundquake is just demonstrably bad after level 30-50.

Her passive could be completely changed if Silence made sense.

That is exactly what silence does though. Don't take my word for it, grab a gun put range and duration on Banshee and try it. I have shot enemies and didn't kill them and because they didn't physically see me not only did they not react but on the second shot that killed them I was still given the stealth kill. 

[SmokinDice]

I didn't even need to read.. I just came to leave a like and agree

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I appreciate you taking the time to show awareness about some issues that some warframes have, I`m going to try and come up with some solutions to address the issues some of these warframes have. Just to ask, do you think that Ash has any issues? if so will you do a post about him?

As for this post, I really like the concept of banshee but unfortunately her abilities are not a big deal and I only play here for her looks. I see her as a stealth frame and has the potential to be a good one without have invisibility but her abilities don`t really reflect that.

Here is a rework of Banshee I came up with, tell me what you think.

Banshee

Spoiler

NEW Passive: Depending on the level of noise in the environment will determine the weapons and abilities performance.

·       There is a sound indicator showing the volume level of noise.

·       If there is no sound, weapons will be silenced.

·       If there is noise in the environment, her ability strength will increase based on the level of noise.

·       Sounds that Banshee makes does not add to the volume gauge.

 

1^st ability:

·       Enemies hit will receive a 30% slower knockdown recovery.

·       Enemies that hit a hard surface will take more damage.

·       It can reflect projectile weapons back at enemies.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Can break breakable objects.

 

2^nd ability:

·       Can be used on the move.

·       (Synergy) Enemies affected take increase damage from her 1^st and 4^th ability.

 

3^rd ability:

·       Enemies will notice you within a 10m of their vision.

·       Enemies will have a slower reaction time when noticing you (if you stand in front of them it will take them 3 seconds until they react to your presents)

·       If you hold the ability, you can control how far the ability reaches based on how much range it has.

·       Show the radius of the ability.

·       Put an indicator above enemies’ head to show how quickly they will be alerted by seeing you. (like stealth games)

·       If enemies are alerted, casting this ability will revert them back to being un-alerted however they will still be alerted if the alarms are on or if you are in their sights.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Remove muffled sound and instead increase the volume of the noises that enemies make, making her aware of enemies’ position (wearing headphones will increase the usefulness of this ability).

·       (Synergy) If you use after casting the 2nd ability, you can see enemies through walls. It will also give you 4.0 punch-through on weapons. (can be increased by strength mods)

 

4^th Ability:

·       Increase cast speed.

·       Enemies will be suspended in the air.

·       After being cast, you can now move around while active.

·       It drains 6 energy a second.

·       After deactivation, enemies will have their damage reduced by 80%.

·       Can break breakable objects.

·       (Synergy) because this makes continues noise, the volume gauge will be at its highest as long as the ability is active.

 

[Mados.sys]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I appreciate you taking the time to show awareness about some issues that some warframes have, I`m going to try and come up with some solutions to address the issues some of these warframes have. Just to ask, do you think that Ash has any issues? if so will you do a post about him?

Indeed I'll do a post about Ash someday, I like criticizing frames when I don't have anything else to do, and so far I made 3 of the 4 IMO worst warframes in the game, the last would be Inaros but people are already talking about it so making a topic about Ash would be better.

I personally enjoy playing as Ash more than I should but even with his massive amount of damage his flaws are pretty notorious, the main one would be that Bladestorm overshadows his whole kit, and I'm not even kidding with that sentence, whoever plays Ash would know very well that Bladestorm is literally a direct upgrade of Shuriken and Teleport, and it cost half the energy, (1/4 invisible) and damn, no one uses Smoke screen when Arcane Trickery is way better in any way, though I think I shouldn't take arcanes on consideration when it comes to criticizing a frame, this is an exception.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

As for this post, I really like the concept of banshee but unfortunately her abilities are not a big deal and I only play here for her looks. I see her as a stealth frame and has the potential to be a good one without have invisibility but her abilities don`t really reflect that.

Here is a rework of Banshee I came up with, tell me what you think.

Banshee

  Hide contents

NEW Passive: Depending on the level of noise in the environment will determine the weapons and abilities performance.

·       There is a sound indicator showing the volume level of noise.

·       If there is no sound, weapons will be silenced.

·       If there is noise in the environment, her ability strength will increase based on the level of noise.

·       Sounds that Banshee makes does not add to the volume gauge.

 

1^st ability:

·       Enemies hit will receive a 30% slower knockdown recovery.

·       Enemies that hit a hard surface will take more damage.

·       It can reflect projectile weapons back at enemies.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Can break breakable objects.

 

2^nd ability:

·       Can be used on the move.

·       (Synergy) Enemies affected take increase damage from her 1^st and 4^th ability.

 

3^rd ability:

·       Enemies will notice you within a 10m of their vision.

·       Enemies will have a slower reaction time when noticing you (if you stand in front of them it will take them 3 seconds until they react to your presents)

·       If you hold the ability, you can control how far the ability reaches based on how much range it has.

·       Show the radius of the ability.

·       Put an indicator above enemies’ head to show how quickly they will be alerted by seeing you. (like stealth games)

·       If enemies are alerted, casting this ability will revert them back to being un-alerted however they will still be alerted if the alarms are on or if you are in their sights.

·       Can be used on the move.

·       Remove muffled sound and instead increase the volume of the noises that enemies make, making her aware of enemies’ position (wearing headphones will increase the usefulness of this ability).

·       (Synergy) If you use after casting the 2nd ability, you can see enemies through walls. It will also give you 4.0 punch-through on weapons. (can be increased by strength mods)

 

4^th Ability:

·       Increase cast speed.

·       Enemies will be suspended in the air.

·       After being cast, you can now move around while active.

·       It drains 6 energy a second.

·       After deactivation, enemies will have their damage reduced by 80%.

·       Can break breakable objects.

·       (Synergy) because this makes continues noise, the volume gauge will be at its highest as long as the ability is active.

 

Now this... THIS IS A REWORK, I love it, this is definitely what would actually make Banshee a more updated and tactical Warframe, I think back in the super beta days Banshee could also see enemies through walls right? I completely forgot but if she could, the synergy with Sonar and Silence would bring that back and it's perfect, that makes perfect use of punch through to hit enemies and kill them before they can reach you.

Banshee's defense is probably one of the worst and with that change this could change notoriously since you'll be able to predict enemies and kill them before they spot you, the change to sonic boom is also excellent since it's kind of like a combination between Baruuk's Serene storm and Nova's 4th, deflect enemy bullets and slow them down, it's an excellent panic button for her and a really good CC and defensive ability.

With Sound Quake I'm imagining a suspension similar to Rhino Stomp while dealing constant damage for the quakes (since that's what she do now) and that's also excellent, Rhino has one of the best CC abilities straight up locking enemies on place, the problem with the current Sound quake is that it just stumbles enemies around, it doesn't really control them that well and they can get out of the Quake's range and attack you while you're locked on place, completely vulnerable.

The Silence changes also sounds really, but really damn well, I'm not sure if the punch through would make too much sense though but it would be excellent when you can spot enemies through walls so if it makes sense or not, it's still a perfect synergy, and the detection I think that's a thing that everyone needs. Currently Railjack has this indicator were it fills if the Railjack is in front of the ships, I don't know why the devs haven't implemented that in the base game since that would fix a lot of the broken detection that some enemies have and would allow for a more fluid stealth gameplay. (Since now at days the only way to do stealth without alerting the whole ships is playing as an invisible warframe)

I completely agree with everything you suggested and I wish this was the way Banshee was reworked.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-06-12 at 8:49 PM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

-snip-

I`m glad you like it that, I see Banshee as a stealth warframe of sound so their would have to be played tactical, one of the issues with her is that she`s better played in a team then solo (the opposite of Ash) with this rework, she is good in public and solo play. The synergy with her 2 & 3 makes sense in a sense that she use sound to detect enemies location, she can`t see then through walls but can hear them but how do you show that in a game but just to show them through walls but to give her an advantage, only she get this synergy no one else gets it.

I like her 1st ability and even through ppl say it should go I disagree so I just vastly improved it.

I`ll explain the sound is so strong that it suspends them in the air dealing continues damage plus other noises on the environment coz of the passive will increases it further. One thing this can do in a game-play situation, if their are enemies outside her 4th Banshee can deal with them while her 4th is active being in two places at once. In high-levels if they can`t be killed when deactivated they will deal less damage to you due to dizziness and loss of hearing.

I added it to make the synergy more useful and just to say as much as I keep saying "it make sense" i`m not like other ppl when they say it, I only say it if it also make the gameplay experience fun or useful which brings me to Ash.

On paper him marking enemies makes sense (coz he`s a ninja assassin marking his targets) but in practise it`s crap, it`s slow, difficult to use and OTHER PPL CAN TAKE HIS KILLS, take him to a level 6 mission, go public, use bs and see how that works out for you. Like you I also enjoy Ash despite his issues (the inconsistency of not opening enemies to finishers), yes his bs does to a certain extent overshadow his 1. I also agree that when talking about a warframes abilities, you should not include arcanes or augments but everybody that defences Ash keeps talking about ss, firstly it`s only good in high-level missions and secondly a warframe`s ability should be good without it`s augments and the augement should be an added bonus by change how the ability works or is used. I await your post about Ash.

 

 

[Mados.sys]

I completely agree that currently Banshee only works on teams mostly since well, all she has is Sonar after all, that benefits way more the other warframes and makes things way faster, instead with your changes as you mentioned, it's still a perfect damage support frame, but her potential is expanded way further and isn't just limited to spamming 2.

I also think that enemies being visible through walls would work pretty well because not everyone has a good hearing or even the headphones might not be as good as the most optimal, which are both my case in a partial way. (It's also kind of the reason why Disruption before marked the Demolysts once they got close enough, I don't know what happened now that the game doesn't even mark them even if they are like 5m in front of you, but even with my headphones, not seeing the enemies is a huge problem)

On 2020-06-15 at 2:31 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I`ll explain the sound is so strong that it suspends them in the air dealing continues damage plus other noises on the environment coz of the passive will increases it further. One thing this can do in a game-play situation, if their are enemies outside her 4th Banshee can deal with them while her 4th is active being in two places at once. In high-levels if they can`t be killed when deactivated they will deal less damage to you due to dizziness and loss of hearing.

I'm not sure if the damage debuff would make too much sense, I was actually thinking about accuracy reduction since the massive sound quake not only would absolutely mess with their hearing but the dizziness would in reality make aiming a complete hell, I'm not sure if it's just me but Nyx with her passive accuracy reduction can survive a lot, I have adaptation and redirection on her, and she can survive way more than most of my other HP focused frames, so I can only think that Banshee with accuracy reduction on her abilities will greatly improve her survival, even if people doubt it.

 

On 2020-06-15 at 2:31 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I added it to make the synergy more useful and just to say as much as I keep saying "it make sense" i`m not like other ppl when they say it, I only say it if it also make the gameplay experience fun or useful which brings me to Ash.

On paper him marking enemies makes sense (coz he`s a ninja assassin marking his targets) but in practise it`s crap, it`s slow, difficult to use and OTHER PPL CAN TAKE HIS KILLS, take him to a level 6 mission, go public, use bs and see how that works out for you. Like you I also enjoy Ash despite his issues (the inconsistency of not opening enemies to finishers), yes his bs does to a certain extent overshadow his 1. I also agree that when talking about a warframes abilities, you should not include arcanes or augments but everybody that defences Ash keeps talking about ss, firstly it`s only good in high-level missions and secondly a warframe`s ability should be good without it`s augments and the augement should be an added bonus by change how the ability works or is used. I await your post about Ash.

I think exactly the same, if people start defending a Warframe with the argument of "X ability is useful because it has Y augment" then that speaks for itself, it that ability only works with an augment then without it, it just doesn't work at all.

How many people have you seen using Slash Dash or Radial Javelin with Excalibur without the augments? Ash's Shurikes and Teleport as well, maybe using Hydroid with 0 augments, or the Warframe of this topic, people using Banshee and not for Sonar? and yet they still think that they are somehow right.

I really want Ash to improve his Ninja playstyle and actually make him a good warframe, he currently has the same problem that Excalibur always had, people only using them because of their 4th ability, Bladestorm and Exalted blade, luckily (I guess) Ash doesn't have a massive amount of fanboys like Excalibur so criticizing him and making people realize that he's not in a good state might be way easier.

Also what I do to make the marking faster is just zigzag my crossair on groups of enemies, I think it takes around a second or more to mark enemies in your crossair, but if you zigzag it, it marks them instantly every time you aim at them, so I can mark entire groups of enemies with 3 marks on less than 1 second, it's just one of the things that I enjoy when I play as Ash, I might not be able to kill faster than other because of the slow finishers, but at least I can guarantee some kills for now.

[Aldain]

On 2020-06-10 at 10:51 PM, NoLazyShadow said:

One word: Valkyr.

One more word: Hydroid.

...Also Nyx.

...And Nekros for anything other than being a lootbot.

Oh and 2/4ths of Chroma.

So the good news is that DE has several rework opportunities, the bad news is that DE has several rework opportunities.

[Mados.sys]

On 2020-06-16 at 3:38 AM, Aldain said:

One more word: Hydroid.

...Also Nyx.

...And Nekros for anything other than being a lootbot.

Oh and 2/4ths of Chroma.

So the good news is that DE has several rework opportunities, the bad news is that DE has several rework opportunities.

The good news is that DE has several rework opportunities and lots of warframes that can be upgraded and given great potential or cool new features.

The bad news is that it's DE.

I'm sorry for being negative but let's be honest, they never listen to criticism unless it's a huge partner that manages to change people's opinion, and even then it's still 50/50 chance, a partner managed to speak about Chroma just being buffs and DE has said absolutely nothing about it, I always make these posts being completely hopeless.

There are lots of warframes that go from outdated to bad or mediocre; Excalibur, Inaros, Hydroid, Nyx, Valkyr, Nekros, Chroma, Ash, Banshee, I can keep going but the rest I think are subjective, like Limbo, Loki, Ivara and Gara. (I personally think they are bad for some reasons but they aren't as bad as the previously mentioned, except Loki).

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-06-16 at 12:41 AM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

-snip-

Actually accuracy reduction on his 4th make sense, do you mind If I change my idea for his 4th and add that?

And that`s the issue, why should you have to zigzag the damn screen just to get kills? it`s sickly to do so (for some ppl). I have some ideas to improve Ash but I`ll wait for you to do a post on Ash post before I do so.

[Mados.sys]

I personally like bladestorm but the complains that people have are absolutely justified, so me just liking it will not mean that I'll pick my sword and shield and defend Ash's pride until the end of days, and I wish more people thought that way.

On 2020-06-16 at 2:12 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Actually accuracy reduction on his 4th make sense, do you mind If I change my idea for his 4th and add that?

Not at all, you can change that if you want, it's important to get the best out of the abilities so if someday a partner saw this suggestion, at least they will have all the good and polished ideas to talk about, but that's in the best case scenario.

On 2020-06-16 at 2:12 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

And that`s the issue, why should you have to zigzag the damn screen just to get kills? it`s sickly to do so (for some ppl). I have some ideas to improve Ash but I`ll wait for you to do a post on Ash post before I do so.

Exactly, I might like marking enemies quickly but this can be absolutely improved, a marking mechanic makes sense, but the current one can be "exploited" that way and not everyone would like it, I think that something like what Garuda makes would be better, marking everyone with a special sight, but we'll see about that when I make the topic.

[Xzorn]

Banshee's 4th ability was dead on arrival. Seriously people would just slot that skill for leveling her then never use it since a still Banshee is a dead one.

Not sure why anyone wouldn't use her 1st ability. It's a very useful part of her kit when the stun duration of Silence is in question.

Besides updating frames doesn't really help them half the time. Chroma, Nyx and Vauban have been worse off for it. You think DE isn't going to rip Sonar apart if you give them the chance? All those years of people asking for a Chroma rework. Well ya got it? 1/2 the eHP and pretty much nothing anyone asked for.

[Leqesai]

I feel that generally speaking Banshee's kit is fine but some QOL tweaks would make her much more useful.

Her 1 being a one handed ability makes good sense

add a guaranteed knockdown to this and it would be pretty useful (can't remember if is guaranteed KD right now or not. I don't think it is)

Her 2 is essentially fine as is
Her 3's stun should permanently apply a 'deaf' status or something to enemies so they do not react to noise even if they move outside its radius. 

Her 4 isn't bad as is but I've always felt that it should not do any real damage but the sustain cost should be significantly lower. Frames like Hildryn have much more powerful CC options than Banshee with a negligible drain. It has been a longstanding issue as a low to midgame nuke ability and this is what should be changed. The fact that it makes her completely immobile is also a hinderance. I would like to see it adjusted so the ability causes a duration-based sound quake that extends from the cast point (affected by LOS) in waves that knockdown or stagger targets (a high-cost, high CC version of her 1). 

[HAYABU5A]

just some more random 2cents - ive mained banshee since 2013, still use her to this day - still enjoy her full kit except i guess soundquake

lots of different builds for different styles, she can easily use 3 augments at once, her 1 2 3 are extremely useful although the aug for silence could do with improvement (increase other dmg sources or make other dmg types count as finisher type dmg like bleeds)

soundquake has gone from op to garbage to op to ok for low level derping over the years but we cant really expect all 4 skills of a frame to be top meta good, its better sometimes the most expensive ability to cast is the worst for higher level content

ive always liked how clean and simple she is to play, everything is direct & its completely up to you to get the most out of it

i wouldnt mind if she had some tweaks or changes but id be very afraid of BAD CHANGES that ruin her

recent additions have made her better in terms of survivability and ease of use come to think of it, shes in her best place that she is ever been in (nuke map quake spam was a disgrace that should be memory holed)

[Xzorn]

On 2020-06-17 at 1:07 AM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Reb is a huge fangirl of Banshee for some reason, just like Nyx, I doubt they'll rip Sonar apart since it's literally her only useful ability and the reason for Banshee to be the best damage increase for any team, the only thing that they would reasonably take away is that weak spots can stack on each other indefinitely, since that can easily make you deal millions on damage with little to no effort, if they take that away or put a limit, it would be reasonable.

The bad side: Reb is a huge fangirl of Banshee (again), with the amount of time she spent on Banshee and the fact that she hasn't even realized that Banshee is terrible might mean that Banshee will forever stay as an absolutely outdated old lady-warframe.

 

For being a fan I've hardly seen her play either in a long time. Where as I had around 900 in-mission hours playing Nyx before her rework.

Either way, Fan doesn't qualify knowing what's good for a frame's design as Nyx has pretty much been made pointless.

 

On 2020-06-17 at 1:07 AM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Updating them helps, are you going to seriously ignore all the good reworks most Warframes got? I'm not gonna count Chroma, Nyx and Titania since those were just lazy tweaks.

 

Volt and they hardly touched him thankfully. What else? Most frame updates haven't been good for anyone who liked the way Warframe used to be played which leads into your next statement about Vauban. I could easily hold teams together single handedly with his CC long as we picked a room and stuck with it. Now what's he good for? Seriously, what is that frame good at which I can't just pick another frame and do better? Used to be CC much like Nyx. Not anymore. 

Loki is the last surviving CC frame in this eHP + DPS, hold left click speed runner game.

Warframe as a game has just streamlined itself into dull where effort is not rewarded not required.

All frames look the same to me these days. "Thematic Damage skill" "Thematic Mitigation / Avoidance Skill" "Thematic crappy CC Skill" They're all the same formula because DE has destroyed most play styles like stealth and when you can actually build specialized team comps this game has no hope at all of entertaining it's players.

[Mados.sys]

48 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Volt and they hardly touched him thankfully. What else? Most frame updates haven't been good for anyone who liked the way Warframe used to be played which leads into your next statement about Vauban. I could easily hold teams together single handedly with his CC long as we picked a room and stuck with it. Now what's he good for? Seriously, what is that frame good at which I can't just pick another frame and do better? Used to be CC much like Nyx. Not anymore.

Lemme see...

Super great and solid CC, permanent armor removal, easy and fun to use, can spam turrets with super damage and great precision, a super cool and damaging missile, a slight damage buff, constant electric procs, temporal armor buff... don't make me keep going, unlike before which just was a bounce, inconsistent electric procs, and pretty much just CC for Vortex and Bastilla, again you have to be absolutely blind to think that Vauban has gotten worse, that or you might have also loved playing as Wukong and Ember before their rework, and at that point you might also have a blast playing as Hydroid and Inaros now at days.

There are options that can be picked instead of Vauban but they would struggle trying to reach what he can do now, also should I remind you that this isn't a topic about Vauban but Banshee?

56 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Loki is the last surviving CC frame in this eHP + DPS, hold left click speed runner game.

Also Loki has Decoy and the switch teleport, 2 abilities that no Loki is going to be using because the Decoy dies instantly and the teleport is almost useless with the slow cast speed and limited to enemies / teammates.

 

58 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Warframe as a game has just streamlined itself into dull where effort is not rewarded not required.

All frames look the same to me these days. "Thematic Damage skill" "Thematic Mitigation / Avoidance Skill" "Thematic crappy CC Skill" They're all the same formula because DE has destroyed most play styles like stealth and when you can actually build specialized team comps this game has no hope at all of entertaining it's players.

I can agree on this in a way, I think that Warframe has little to no challenge that you have to put any effort on, it's mostly determined based on your weapons killing as fast as possible, and your warframe having 90% damage reduction, a survival ability like Iron Skin or Turbulence, or being invisible since enemies are terribly unbalanced, like it's unbelievable.

Though there's just so much you can do when it comes to abilities really, I seriously struggle when it comes to thinking about a fresh and new ability that isn't just the same as any other previously implemented.

There's no real challenge, it's just raising the numbers further and further.

[Mados.sys]

11 hours ago, HAYABU5A said:

just some more random 2cents - ive mained banshee since 2013, still use her to this day - still enjoy her full kit except i guess soundquake

lots of different builds for different styles, she can easily use 3 augments at once, her 1 2 3 are extremely useful although the aug for silence could do with improvement (increase other dmg sources or make other dmg types count as finisher type dmg like bleeds)

"easily"

You mean being forced to waste 3 / 4 slots for augments that she forcefully need to actually be useful? I've stated on the beginning of the topic that augments aren't taken on consideration because of this, Banshee's abilities beside Sonar only work with augments, you know how painful it is to make some space for an augment in most warframes? How about 2, or 3 like you're suggesting, that leaves you with such  limited options, options that Banshee needs because of how weak and almost useless she is.

Should I also note that Sonic Boom's augment not only is it uncomfortable to use but also it's pointless to remove Armors if Sonar can already make your weapons deal so much damage that is just like ignoring armor anyways? so even if  s o m e h o w  you could fit 3 augments, one is almost irrelevant, maybe the other one too because Sound quake's deals a terrible amount of damage and Silence only works with the stun.

11 hours ago, HAYABU5A said:

soundquake has gone from op to garbage to op to ok for low level derping over the years but we cant really expect all 4 skills of a frame to be top meta good, its better sometimes the most expensive ability to cast is the worst for higher level content

That would be a lazy excuse to defend a terrible ability, there's no need for Soundquake to deal 9999999 damage per tic, it can be just as easy as keeping the CC more consistent, not locking Banshee on place since it makes the CC pointless unless you're on a squad, and maybe making it faster, the ability should still have some use on high level content otherwise is an absolutely useless ability that would only work on low levels, and for that there's always a Rhino that can nuke the whole map.

 

11 hours ago, HAYABU5A said:

i wouldnt mind if she had some tweaks or changes but id be very afraid of BAD CHANGES that ruin her

recent additions have made her better in terms of survivability and ease of use come to think of it, shes in her best place that she is ever been in (nuke map quake spam was a disgrace that should be memory holed)

It's literally impossible that a change would be bad for Banshee, she's already part of the worst Warframes in the whole game, any change that she get would be positive with how inconsistent her kit is, the only bad change that she can get would be related to Sonar, and even then what that would be is that Sonar would no longer stack an infinite damage multiplier which is only noticeable when you spam Sonar or you have the augment.

She went from surviving 1 shot to 2 shots, 3 with the shield gating invincibility...nah she's not in her best place, she's on the worst with again, a kit full of band aid augments, she's more like in her worst state.

The best place Banshee was is when Stealth was still a reliable option and enemies didn't went above level 30, for those times Silence was actually useful and Sound quake could at least do something compared to the enemies of now at days with way more armor and the average level being above 40 and around 70.

I was also being a Banshee main but I heavily regret it because of how terrible she is, sure there are ways in which you can enjoy her, but we cannot lie to each other, every second of using Banshee is a complete torture, is like Chroma but worse because at least Chroma is tankier.

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Also Loki has Decoy and the switch teleport, 2 abilities that no Loki is going to be using because the Decoy dies instantly and the teleport is almost useless with the slow cast speed and limited to enemies / teammates.

 

Decoy is used often by good Loki players because when properly placed along with enemies having no weapons it can cause a handy distraction esp in Defense situations where players need to be close to a target they're protecting and ideally enemies shouldn't be. This value is amplified with Radiation status giving a window where enemies run towards the Decoy instead of players before the next Rad Disarm is thrown out.

I use switch Teleport also. Mostly Solo. Not a lot but enough.

 

4 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

There are options that can be picked instead of Vauban but they would struggle trying to reach what he can do now, also should I remind you that this isn't a topic about Vauban but Banshee?

 

A mixture of qualities is pointless. That's the point I was trying to make.

This has had a very long term branding of "Oberon Syndrome" because for years he suffered from doing a lot; of nothing great.

Specialization is just about gone from Warframe. You will get hit now because things see through Invis. You will get hit because CC has become unreliable both by nerfing CC frames and making too many enemies immune to abilities. eHP and Damage are the only reliable play styles these days. Just pick the biggest brick with the highest weapon ramp damage and you win 90% of Warframe and DE forced us into that.

Play old Survival not this trash Arbitrations you'll see Banshee is still quite good if you're fast enough. It's Warframe that's gone in the wrong direction. I've always used every ability but Banshee's 4th now the game can't even scale high enough to challenge her damage amp anyways so I guess it doesn't matter either way.

Everything feels strong when they neuter enemy scaling to child-like portions.

[Mados.sys]

50 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Decoy is used often by good Loki players because when properly placed along with enemies having no weapons it can cause a handy distraction esp in Defense situations where players need to be close to a target they're protecting and ideally enemies shouldn't be. This value is amplified with Radiation status giving a window where enemies run towards the Decoy instead of players before the next Rad Disarm is thrown out.

I use switch Teleport also. Mostly Solo. Not a lot but enough.

Those 2 can still be changed, why giving a microscopic life to Loki's decoy and why not instead make it an actual hologram? something for distraction that is based on duration instead of strength, on that way ti would not be limited to the specific use of unarmed enemies and placing the decoy on a high ground, since someone is still going to snipe it one way or another, and come on, we can all agree that the teleport is not good, if it was an actual teleport that was way faster then it would actually be useful. (Like being able to teleport wherever you're pointing and with a faster casting speed, you can do the first part but it's limited to placing the decoy first, making it a 2 step inconvenience)

 

50 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

A mixture of qualities is pointless. That's the point I was trying to make.

This has had a very long term branding of "Oberon Syndrome" (I guess you mean a jack of all trades) because for years he suffered from doing a lot; of nothing great.

Specialization is just about gone from Warframe. You will get hit now because things see through Invis. You will get hit because CC has become unreliable both by nerfing CC frames and making too many enemies immune to abilities. eHP and Damage are the only reliable play styles these days. Just pick the biggest brick with the highest weapon ramp damage and you win 90% of Warframe and DE forced us into that.

Now this is actually a fact that I can't deny, you can pretty much win the whole game with a Bramma and Rhino or any super tank that can at least defend.

 

54 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Play old Survival not this trash Arbitrations you'll see Banshee is still quite good if you're fast enough. It's Warframe that's gone in the wrong direction. I've always used every ability but Banshee's 4th now the game can't even scale high enough to challenge her damage amp anyways so I guess it doesn't matter either way.

Everything feels strong when they neuter enemy scaling to child-like portions.

The thing is that there's no point in playing those old survivals, and even then there are so stupidly overpowered warframes that can delete the whole map, Rhino with his stomp can kill almost anyone bellow level 30, and those are the "old times", or Saryn can infect and kill anyone eventually, sure Banshee can work on those old survivals, but so can anyone else, and even on those levels you can feel how bad Silence is since it's almost absolutely focused on Stealth, a gamemode that has been further gotten broken since this update because now somehow most enemies can immediately get alerted the moment they see you around the corner.

The reason why we play arbitration, fissures, requiems is because there are rewards that we can use almost endlessly and are beneficial for us, Kuva, Endo, Ducats, it's the closest thing to an endgame.

[Xzorn]

27 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Those 2 can still be changed, why giving a microscopic life to Loki's decoy and why not instead make it an actual hologram?

 

Used to be and it was duration based. It also used to have much higher aggro. DE didn't like that so they dumped on it.

They nerfed Saryn's Molt and Decoy around the same time and made the aggro very low. Recently they reverted the aggro on Molt but not Decoy. Saryn also used to be able to have more than one Molt at a time. DE makes these frames suck. Ember used to have that Mitigation buff and they took it away but now it's back again. It's all just tricks to make the majority move in their desired direction. Not the direction the player actually wants to play the game.

I would say fun is a reason to do things. Once you're sitting on 100k plat and have nothing to do you quickly realize how little of that is actually in the game. From a game play perspective Arbitrations are simply less challenging and more limited meta Survival missions. Well they were before DE made nothing scale but before that, 2 hours in Arbitrations was like lvl 200 while it was lvl 400 in a normal Survival.

You mention the AoE kill the map stuff power creep... Well that's what levels are for. Couldn't even guess how long it takes for enemies push back now. DE could have added a lvl 200-300 starting point mission and I'd probably still play the game but I'm done investing 3h+ just to test builds because everything else is a joke.

[Kaotis]

I agree she needs a rework, but i'm not a huge fan of your 4th proposal (yelow yes, red not so much) :😞

En 11/6/2020 a las 5:31, Deluxe-Chimera dijo:

 

4^th Ability:

·       Increase cast speed.

·       Enemies will be suspended in the air.

·       After being cast, you can now move around while active.

·       It drains 6 energy a second.

·       After deactivation, enemies will have their damage reduced by 80%.

·       Can break breakable objects.

·       (Synergy) because this makes continues noise, the volume gauge will be at its highest as long as the ability is active.

Feels 2 similar to rhino stomp what you are proposing tbh, i'd personaly opt for a insta damage system that flat out damges a room (or several ) . The damage type should be one or a mixture of: impact, blast (tecnicaly it should be a sound/shockwave themed thing)

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-06-16 at 10:02 PM, Deluxe-Chimera said:

-snip-

People are entitled to their opinion, someone could give ideas to rework every single one of his abilities, i`m not getting upset over an idea at the end of the day it`s DE that will decide what happens to the warframe.

Just to clarify, I love the concept, I just don`t like the marking mechanics, like I said before the marking mechanic should never be ties to damage EVER.

Ok I`ll change it, this change makes it good in high-level missions if her 4th can`t kill them, it will be a massive radius of de-buffing enemies` accuracy.

And yes I`ll admit, marking enemies "makes sense" (on paper) but in practise it`s terrible. If making it make sense make the ability bad or not fun then frig it making sense I`d choose illogical fun over logical boredom.

[IceColdHawk]

Most outdated, still one of the strongest.