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Why does everyone want better rewards for hard mode?


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2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

My opinion is.. Why shouldn't I bring Glaxion Vandal or Braton Prime into Extreme Face Punch Mode ? I like those weapons ? why am I being punished for having a Preference ?

Glaxion Vandal is a pretty decent weapon when paired with the right frame.

I got it recently from Baro and can already see it being strong with Banshee's Sonar and the freeze effect, no Forma so far, but that will definitely be my next focus.

With a Viral+Hunter Munitions build it should be endgame viable, sure there are better options for endgame, but imo. it got the stats to handle that content, maybe with some difficulties compared to other meta options but still, its crit chance is decent for a held fire weapon, its status chance is also really good and adding Primed Cryo rounds is just like increasing its base damage without interfering much with its status types.

I don't see why it couldn't be used in Hard mode, unless DE decides to make enemies immune to status or something like that.

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1 minute ago, General-Pacman said:

I feel like some people are asumming that the rewards in hardmode are going to be some new thingy exclusive to that gamemode, and are already getting triggered for that, when we dont even know what rewards it will give, if any. I was assumming that the rewards will be just and increased amount of resource and credit drops, and that would be more than enough for me to play it.

That’s basically what I’m expecting as well. I don’t think most people are expecting some sort of exclusive mod sets tied specifically to hard mode. I expect relic drops to probably be radiant already, extra credits and resources. If they want to give a little decoration at the end for completing it then awesome. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)goonie4good said:

That’s basically what I’m expecting as well. I don’t think most people are expecting some sort of exclusive mod sets tied specifically to hard mode. I expect relic drops to probably be radiant already, extra credits and resources. If they want to give a little decoration at the end for completing it then awesome. 

Exactly.

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3 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

The rewards will never be good enough. 

pretty much. what do you give the player who has everything? I'm long past the point of needing most resources, I don't even want Rivens anymore, I have one for all of my favourite weapons and a few more besides. only something Ludicrous like Umbra Forma Bundles would get my eyebrows to raise, but we all know DE would never be that generous. there's always the option of exclusive cosmetics, but then you get people complaining about those too.

Edited by (PS4)robotwars7
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2 minutes ago, General-Pacman said:

I feel like some people are asumming that the rewards in hardmode are going to be some new thingy exclusive to that gamemode, and are already getting triggered for that, when we dont even know what rewards it will give, if any. I was assumming that the rewards will be just an increased amount of resource and credit drops, and that would be more than enough for me to play it.

This. If theres any reward changes, increased quantity and chance is I want it to be. No new content gated behind it, just more stuff so those of us who are probably already sick of grinding will have to do just a little less of it. Theres plenty of other time gates in the game already anyway, so it's not like theres any big issue there, it just takes out some of the hassle. 

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)goonie4good said:

That’s basically what I’m expecting as well. I don’t think most people are expecting some sort of exclusive mod sets tied specifically to hard mode. I expect relic drops to probably be radiant already, extra credits and resources. If they want to give a little decoration at the end for completing it then awesome. 

I would be fine with rewards like clear the starchart in hard mode get spiffy syandanas/skins.

Or badges to give to a vendor for useful items.

Otherwise most people have no reason to bother.

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8 minutes ago, General-Pacman said:

I feel like some people are asumming that the rewards in hardmode are going to be some new thingy exclusive to that gamemode, and are already getting triggered for that, when we dont even know what rewards it will give, if any. I was assumming that the rewards will be just an increased amount of resource and credit drops, and that would be more than enough for me to play it.

IMO The rewards for hard mode should be exactly the same as if you stayed in a 'normal' mission until the level reached equivalent to hard mode or ultra hard mode. Except for perhaps some sort of emblem/decoration if when you complete every node in hard/ultra hard mode. 

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4 hours ago, MacKerris said:

Do you work, as in have a job? Do you get paid for your time? Do you get paid the same for two days of work as you do for one?

 

Part of playing a game at the prize at the end. The expected reward for greater effort is a better prize.

Player camping for 18-24hours don't get any better rewards than just running the regular mission. Drop rates don't change because you stay in longer.😉

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

Otherwise most people have no reason to bother.

The reason from what I remember people wanted hard mode because DE hated Simulacrum youtube content creators only showcasing the gray room instead of the artwork developer's made in game. Making new players think this is all Warframe offered. While player argued give us higher level to run our weapons instead of that gray room. Instead of farming Endo and ranking weapons on one or two missions, player can choose any mission to get the same affinity and focus farming.

Edited by kwlingo
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For some, getting better loot is fun. For others, playing something challenging is fun.

However, I'd like to add that better loot should be coupled with a harder challenge. In Warframe, I think Eidolon hunting is a good example because it offers a decent challenge while offering useful rewards that can be also be traded for plat.

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6 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Player were asking for more challenging not better rewards. Or was challenge a reason to tie to rewards?

There is a large portion of the playerbase that is frustrated by the small elite of the playerbase.

Warframe is a game that lets smart, suave players get incredible amounts of power and be nigh unkillable or do nigh infinite amounts of damage.

The larger weaker portion of the player base gets really upset when an elite joins the mission and carries them.

By making the hard mode have better rewards, (They need to make it THE most efficient way to get materials, better drop rates for mods, and just make it a loot heaven.) the elite players will leave the low level areas so noobs don't complain anymore.

Think of it like this. World of Warcraft has expansions that come out every year. A level 96 player needs something, and farms this item from a low level dungeon to make it quick. The level 23 players in that dungeon with him complain that the level 96 player is overpowered.

Warframe is that example exactly.

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If hard mode locks important (e.g. MR) content behind it, that you can't get anywhere else, then it's not really hard mode but just a high-level extension of normal mode. If people want locking content from others, instead of just wanting a harder difficulty, then it's really not about difficulty. It's about griefing others and feeling superior to them.

Since Warframe is based on cooperation, that'd be a big red flag for a lot of people. Me included.

Red Flag Lori GIF by ABC Network

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21 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

Since Warframe is based on cooperation, that'd be a big red flag for a lot of people. Me included.

I think it's the other way around. Having rewards tied to harder content would be an excellent reason to put that cooperation to work. Im not sure what you mean with cooperation, but right now, the amount of content in Warframe that can't be played and won alone is close to zero.
Again, as i said earlier, i don't expect hardmode to give us anything more than just an increased amount of normal resources and credits, that would be enough for me. But I wouldn't mind having content exclusive to it either, even if it's hidden behind a level of difficulty that I couldn't handle right now. If I feel like it, I would take the time and effort to improve and overcome it; if not, I would just ignore it, simple as that.

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6 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Difficulty can improve the player's experience, absolutely. I've seen enough people ask for "hard mode" to know as much. It depends on the person, however, and I can tell you from experience that difficulty can drastically degrade a player's experience, as well. Over-rewarding Hard Mode shifts status quo and teaches players that they're "supposed" to play Hard Mode whether they enjoy it or not. A lot of people will, as a result burning themselves on it. I personally prefer to make that a choice. If you want high difficulty, run high difficulty. If you don't want high difficulty, you can still run standard content without feeling like you're missing out. Again, everybody wins.

And if a player finds themselves wanting rewards quickly but not wanting to go through the slower pace of difficult content - I'd argue that player doesn't actually enjoy difficult content. That player has, in all likelihood, been conditioned to expect higher rewards from difficult content because "that's how loot-based games work" and isn't making decisions from the perspective of entertainment value at all. Maybe I'm jaded from playing MMOs for too long, but the rat race isn't worth it. In any of 'em.

 

I agree with all you said too.

 

Also, I already deal with toxic people offline and elitists, I don't want it in the game i play to escape that either. I'm just a casual player who has most stuff but I play at my own pace. I don't like a lot of the popular frames except Nova and Wisp and I don't really like any of the popular weapons. There's so many to choose from I switch stuff up quite a bit. I don't even bother with youtube guides or anything. I just experiment and play to have fun.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

There is a large portion of the playerbase that is frustrated by the small elite of the playerbase.

Warframe is a game that lets smart, suave players get incredible amounts of power and be nigh unkillable or do nigh infinite amounts of damage.

The larger weaker portion of the player base gets really upset when an elite joins the mission and carries them.

By making the hard mode have better rewards, (They need to make it THE most efficient way to get materials, better drop rates for mods, and just make it a loot heaven.) the elite players will leave the low level areas so noobs don't complain anymore.

Think of it like this. World of Warcraft has expansions that come out every year. A level 96 player needs something, and farms this item from a low level dungeon to make it quick. The level 23 players in that dungeon with him complain that the level 96 player is overpowered.

Warframe is that example exactly.

This is a pretty good way of putting it. Though, I wouldnt say nigh unkillable. Literally immortal gods of infinite power would better describe it I'd think =P... But joking aside, I remember when I was a newbro, I hated when some banshee or equinox would show up and just delete every enemy in the entire map leaving me with literally nothing to do. I dump on and report AFKers all the time in any game I play, and these people made me feel like one because there was nothing for me to do but stand around. And now I'm that guy that can make everyone else moot. The reason I started maining Wisp (besides that booty) was to give buffs and let others still run around and feel like they're doing things, and still be helpful and effective in any scenario myself. 

the flip side of this coin though is that these hard mode missions will also likely only (at least hopefully) have geared players in them, so when I am trying to make a challenge of things by sticking around for frankly too long, at least everyone else will be more likely able to keep up. 

10 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

If hard mode locks important (e.g. MR) content behind it, that you can't get anywhere else, then it's not really hard mode but just a high-level extension of normal mode. If people want locking content from others, instead of just wanting a harder difficulty, then it's really not about difficulty. It's about griefing others and feeling superior to them.

Since Warframe is based on cooperation, that'd be a big red flag for a lot of people. Me included.

Red Flag Lori GIF by ABC Network

As some one who wants increased rewards, I'll iterate again that I do not want special rewards like new gear/mods/weapons (except maybe small cosmetics, a glyph or trophy you can slap in your orbiter to say "I dun the thing!", just an increased rate and quantity of things that would otherwise normally drop. I dont feel like this would be any kind of a gate, but a reward for those who want to play more difficult maps. And it really is a small one too. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Think of it like this. World of Warcraft has expansions that come out every year. A level 96 player needs something, and farms this item from a low level dungeon to make it quick. The level 23 players in that dungeon with him complain that the level 96 player is overpowered.

Warframe is that example exactly.

True but wow doesnt specifically work  that way. If i am max level and i  want a low level mog or a rare mount drop from a low level dungeon. Im running it solo.

The gear mechanically is worthless.

Well leveling running a dungeon you are matched with people in your level range.

A max player soloing a dungeon for a newbie is not effective. The low level players gains less exp. They benefit more using lfg and running the dungeon with fellow at level pugs.

And when it comes to wow everything before level cap is irrelevant. The faster you can get through it the better.

Keep in mind wows present expac is a utter failure. The nexts release date is stil unkown.

The average player wants to benefit from their actiond. If hard mode rewards suck. People won't run it.

Edited by (PS4)Kakurine2
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i just dont want players that are addicted to getting rewards fast and easy to feel "forced" to play Hard mode and then start complaining about it being hard. 

I want hard mode to stay hard and for DE to be able to say "if you think its too hard, just dont play it. its optional". If they lock too many rewards behind Hardmode, they'll eventually have to turn it into "everyone wins"" mode to quell the tears. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Just now, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

True but wow doesnt specifically that way.

And it doesn't matter if WoW works that way.

In Warframe any player doing any mission as long as they are on public gets paired with any other player doing that mission.

A Master Rank 0 volt could join my squad fresh with a mk-1 braton. Meanwhile I have weapons min-maxed to take on enemies regardless of level.

I have done literal billions of damage in a single shot, killed level 9,999 enemies. Most noobies are going to complain that they see a level 30 warframe killing everything with easy while they tried their hardest just to kill an infested charger.

(An ancient healer was keeping that charger alive mind you.)

So yes, its very much like a max level wow player doing a dungeon with low level wow players. The low level players in either scenario both feel the same way. "This sucks."

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Bro. I don't even understand the fact that this question exists. LOL. You seriously want to run missions on a higher difficulty for the same rewards you get in hard mode? Like... what's the point in that? Where's the motivation?

Fun? Ye hell ye im having fun until i realize sooner or later that i've put more effort into something that won't pay that much effort and time back. Ye i'd have a lot of fun playing on a harder level aaand... and that's it. And then i just get bored with it. Do you think it's good this way?

Warframe is a looter game and having better rewards in a looter game on higher difficulties is just.... idk... don't you feel like it would be the obvious game design choice? What is warframe then? Just some powercreep jojo fantasy that you get bored with in months or even better, weeks? It's the reason why a lot of people abandons the game despite it being an online multiplayer game. It has no challenge anymore once you lived out your childish power fantasy and played god for enough time.

Who's gonna play hard mode if there's no better reward for it? A few people for sure, those that have nothing else to do anymore in the game. 

But seriously why make my job harder for the same amount of payment? I know i know "it's a game, we play games for fun". Well... guess what... a lot of games got abandoned and died because of broken loot systems that didn't make you feel rewarded for your efforts and thus, despite the enjoyable gameplay and amazing graphics of that game, rendered it unfun and it's playerbase either left fully or shrinked to hilariously little numbers. And anthem is just one example that everyone mentions but still, it's the best example. It's the best example to show how much a looter/rpg/sci fi game can dissapoint everyone that expected it to be something... not even better, but something that's just satisfying enough to play.

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3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i just dont want people addicted to getting rewards fast and easy to feel "forced" to play Hard mode and then start complaining about it being hard. 

I want hard mode to stay hard and for DE to be able to say "if you think its too hard, just dont play it. its optional". If they lock too many rewards behind Hardmode, they'll eventually have to turn it into "everyone wins"" mode to quell the tears. 

You can have easy universal rewards that aren't overkill.

Kuva, endo, forma, potatoes, cosmetics, etc.

Reward badges to trade to a vendor for stuff.

Even long time players can always use kuva and endo.

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I'd be satisfied with resource, affinity and cred boosters applied just like what staying in Defense missions already do. Would finally get around to building the Sibear and could always use more Orokin Cells that Prime weapons seem to inhale.

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4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i just dont want people addicted to getting rewards fast and easy to feel "forced" to play Hard mode and then start complaining about it being hard.

Git Guud, or find other players to help.

I can literally solo all of Warframe's content.

I would be more then happy to help new players get resources from hard mode to speed up their progression. I literally have nothing better to do. The only catch, is if those players get carried by me, they try their best.

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2 minutes ago, Samhel said:

Bro. I don't even understand the fact that this question exists. LOL. You seriously want to run missions on a higher difficulty for the same rewards you get in hard mode? Like... what's the point in that? Where's the motivation?

i do. I would run tougher missions now if i could. The motivation is fun. For many of us, the grind could be more enjoyable if it was more challenging. Sleepwalking through syndicate missions is boring. I'll gladly play a syndicate missions with lvl 100+ enemies for the exact same rewards. 

2 minutes ago, Samhel said:

Fun? Ye hell ye im having fun until i realize sooner or later that i've put more effort into something that won't pay that much effort and time back. Ye i'd have a lot of fun playing on a harder level aaand... and that's it. And then i just get bored with it. Do you think it's good this way?

Warframe is a looter game and having better rewards in a looter game on higher difficulties is just.... idk... don't you feel like it would be the obvious game design choice? What is warframe then? Just some powercreep jojo fantasy that you get bored with in months or even better, weeks? It's the reason why a lot of people abandons the game despite it being an online multiplayer game. It has no challenge anymore once you lived out your childish power fantasy and played god for enough time.

Who's gonna play hard mode if there's no better reward for it? A few people for sure, those that have nothing else to do anymore in the game. 

But seriously why make my job harder for the same amount of payment? I know i know "it's a game, we play games for fun". Well... guess what... a lot of games got abandoned and died because of broken loot systems that didn't make you feel rewarded for your efforts and thus, despite the enjoyable gameplay and amazing graphics of that game, rendered it unfun and it's playerbase either left fully or shrinked to hilariously little numbers. And anthem is just one example that everyone mentions but still, it's the best example. It's the best example to show how much a looter/rpg/sci fi game can dissapoint everyone that expected it to be something... not even better, but something that's just satisfying enough to play.

Hard mode shouldn't be for people that are too focused on rewards for their effort. The game already has a set grind. We dont need hardmode upsetting that balance. Im sure there are many players that will play hardmode just for the challenge. We already have people talking about nerfing themselves for fun.

The main reward for hardmode should be the satisfaction of playing hardmode. If you arent interested in "more effort for same rewards" then its optional. Hardmode shouldnt be for everyone. 

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