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Why does everyone want better rewards for hard mode?


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1 hour ago, BRZZAFK said:

Logically:
Higher level enemy ≠ Harder difficulty 

so

Higher level enemy ≠ Better rewards 

Oh, so apparently getting oneshot or sorry, twoshot because shield gating isn't harder than being able to infinitely facetank with inaros? Or enemies taking longer to kill (granted it's not as severe as before the hp scaling changes but then again nobody asked for it..but it still scales) 

Please refrain from misusing the term "logically". And besides, nobody said that DE couldn't add in more spice than just higher enemy levels. 

Edited by IceColdHawk
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Sure, people want better reward for harder content (that's what they said), but the question is, what is the better reward for warframe? Try defining it first because nothing is more annoying than people that complain over something they asked in the first place

Let's ask some questions for that

- More resource drop : What is the big need of getting more resources on top of millions in your inventory? Do you really need to add a thousand more on millions you already have, collecting dust?

- More mods : Similar to resource, what's the point of getting two mods that you already have? I would understand if you need it to share with newbies you're teaching but what else other than that?

Also, exclusive mods will be a source of crying, as usual

- Better weapons or armor : Well, warframe doesn't have the basic MMO rarity system so what's going to be the better weapon or armor? If it's far stronger we would see the "power creep" complain and when the weapons make the hard content easy, we will see people complain having the mode too easy and ask for more, being the mainstream game of infinite grinding for more power like many games out there

And surely if the weapon is locked behind the hard mode exclusively, we'll see people crying for many reasons

If I have to say, what people actually want is probably :

- Kuva

Let hard mode gives more kuva as the reward, and possibly having small amount of kuva on enemy kill so it becomes a kuva hunting ground for those kuva addicts for whatever their need

- Cosmetics

No power creep, no exclusive gear that halts your progression, only a badge of honor to show that you've done it as bragging right

- Reusable consumables blueprints

For this, simply just for laughs and giggles (I want this), maybe modular starburst blueprint (fireworks in warframe) or something that doesn't affect the gameplay or progression at all, just resource sink for laugh

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34 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Please refrain from misusing the term "logically". And besides, nobody said that DE couldn't add in more spice than just higher enemy levels. 

Eidolons get harder with higher levels more then just one shot potential.

Theoretically they could do it right. Realistically they will just add higher starting levels so veterans have far better rewards.

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41分钟前 , IceColdHawk 说:

Oh, so apparently getting oneshot or sorry, twoshot because shield gating isn't harder than being able to infinitely facetank with inaros? Or enemies taking longer to kill (granted it's not as severe as before the hp scaling changes but then again nobody asked for it..but it still scales) 

Please refrain from misusing the term "logically". And besides, nobody said that DE couldn't add in more spice than just higher enemy levels. 

If they make hard mode start at level 500 than it fit the situation you said. Even than the game mode wont be that difficult it's just different because you run stealth frame or warfarme that can immune hit instand of tank frame.

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25 minutes ago, 844448 said:

- More resource drop : What is the big need of getting more resources on top of millions in your inventory? Do you really need to add a thousand more on millions you already have, collecting dust?

Honestly, better resource drops would actually be kinda nice.

Not sure if you have a dojo, or anything. But having a higher resource chance, especially for some certain resources like polymer bundles, to mutagen samples would be kinda nice since most farms of them are lacking.

Otherwise more endo, more kuva, would be just fine.

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Why would rewards be source of crying? do you cry that in every mmo/rpg ever you get better loot from harder/higher-level mobs and dungeons? And not like there could be anything gamebreaking. just like Arbys rewards are decent, some exclusives even - but they are totally optional - so no one cares about them, easy-mode player ignore Arbys and no one complains, its a non issue.

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Honestly, better resource drops would actually be kinda nice.

Not sure if you have a dojo, or anything. But having a higher resource chance, especially for some certain resources like polymer bundles, to mutagen samples would be kinda nice since most farms of them are lacking.

Otherwise more endo, more kuva, would be just fine.

My old trick is camping at extraction in Ophelia, Uranus with hydroid and nekros or looting every polymer case for polymer bundle on every mission run

Mutagen? Loot every crate and locker, they're just waiting there

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2 minutes ago, 844448 said:

My old trick is camping at extraction in Ophelia, Uranus with hydroid and nekros or looting every polymer case for polymer bundle on every mission run

Mutagen? Loot every crate and locker, they're just waiting there

Hema dojo unlock says hello.

Clan is made of a bunch of old friends. Did most of the research myself. 50,000 mutagen samples when they don't drop in large amounts is quite the hassle. If hard modes give resource boosters, just another reason to do them.

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There's a lot of people that simply want the best of in game items,  and higher level experiences without having to work for them.

You're playing an MMO, they are supposed to be played for more than 6 months, heck even more than a year. 

It's not uncommon for people to play live service games for 2 to 5 years even.

If you want something in a video game, you either work for it by grinding the games content with other players in Hopes for things called "drops", or you use this stuff called "money" to accelerate your progression through the game.

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10 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Imagine fighting lvl 100+ enemies and get the same amount of XP and/or loot from lvl 30 enemies.

Imagine getting Kuva Bramma, the strongest weapon in the game, as early as MR5 cuz "we dont want rewards tied to difficulty or progression"

Imagine actually wanting an endgame.

Imagine not getting burned out on content in 2 days because tougher content with good rewards incentivies people to get better and play more.

DE has been spoonfeeding their community for way too long to the point that endgame turned more of a "frowned upon" thing compared to years before when almost everyone was screaming for it.

You're right. This is probably the first game community I've seen that admitted their endgame was 165p skins and talking about a frames curves like it isn't sad.

I personally thought I'd see way more build and theory crafting with all these weapons, frames and mods. But I think the more in depth conversations are in private discords and clan chats. This forum is basically surface-level in a bad way. 

 

 

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Challenge needs to be rewarded, or else it becomes redundant.

The problem with WF is challenge and reward dynamic. It is missing on both ends not just one.

But I think hard mode is a start and a step towards the right path. Dev's can improve upon challenge and rewards along the way.

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10 hours ago, Crystles said:

As some one who wants increased rewards, I'll iterate again that I do not want special rewards like new gear/mods/weapons (except maybe small cosmetics, a glyph or trophy you can slap in your orbiter to say "I dun the thing!", just an increased rate and quantity of things that would otherwise normally drop. I dont feel like this would be any kind of a gate, but a reward for those who want to play more difficult maps. And it really is a small one too. 

A bit of clarification on this note. I'm not opposed to harder difficulty settings having higher rewards AT ALL. Predominantly what I'm opposed to is harder difficulty modes being the most efficient way to gain rewards. Generally speaking, I'm in favour of over-rewarding the median and under-rewarding the extremes. That's very hard AND very easy. Low difficulty settings ought to have disproportionately low rewards in order to encourage players to move to the median, while high difficulty settings ought to have higher rewards but not high enough to justify the increased time and difficulty as a pure efficiency calculation. That's so that players are NOT encouraged to move away from the median. They're given the option of going higher or lower, but the median is where the best reward efficiency is. I don't know what would count as "median" in Warframe, but the game seems to consider 40-60 to be about it, with 80-100 being high and 20-40 being low (with anything below 20 being "tutorial").

Generally, I disagree with the idea that a game's intended progression includes players slowly migrating towards the hardest difficulty setting available and that games should encourage this. Ideologically, I believe the exact opposite. Games should DISCOURAGE players from playing on the hardest difficulty settings available specifically so that said highest difficulty settings can be tailor-made for the few people who do actually enjoy them. Again - I've had this argument in game after game. People absolutely despise high difficulty settings, feel compelled to play them anyway, then come to the forums to complain. Look at Arbitrations. The point, I thought, was for those to be "hard mode." Yet because DE stuck a bunch of really powerful rare things in them, everyone and their grandma went to play Arbitrations, hated them, pushed for change and the mode was changed to excise some of its supposed core features.

Give higher rewards for higher difficulty, by all means. Just don't make those rewards higher by much and I'll be happy.

 

6 hours ago, Monolake said:

Why would rewards be source of crying? do you cry that in every mmo/rpg ever you get better loot from harder/higher-level mobs and dungeons? And not like there could be anything gamebreaking. just like Arbys rewards are decent, some exclusives even - but they are totally optional - so no one cares about them, easy-mode player ignore Arbys and no one complains, its a non issue.

This is objectively not true. When Arbitrations came out, there was a massive backlash against them. That's why enemy difficulty was changed numerous times and permadeath was made not-perma. Moreover, not a lot of people "ignore" arbitration rewards. A lot of us just buy them with real money instead of doing Arbitrations, because a major component of Warframe's experience is buying power. I don't know what went on in General Discussions, but General Feedback was FILLED with Arbitration complaints when they came out, and still occasionally is.

Now we've gone full circle and try-hard players are complaining that Arbitrations are too easy because DE "kowtowed" to the "casuals" and "ruined" the game mode. Which was obviously going to happen when you attach attractive rewards to unattractive gameplay. DE always make that mistake. For every content release, they try to get EVERYONE to play it. They don't seem to ever release niche content any more, and they really should.

Edited by Steel_Rook
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OK, op let me ask you THIS: WHY DOES DOCTORS MAKE MORE THAN FACTORY WORKERS? Because in your logic doctors should make exactly the same about than factory workers.

On another note I Think hard mode should reward 1-2 unique weapons and unique mods only available in hard mode and ultra hard should do the same:reward 1-2 unique things to the payer who completes the mode along with the rewards of Forma, radiant relics,and increased rare resources drop chance.it does not matter if some of the payerbase complaints Saying things like"I dont want a second job" or "hard mode is just a gear check" well the response to them is simple:GIT GUD  since most weapons when modded proprely can haddle lvl 100+ ,EVEN the MK-1s can (according to lezargaming or however you spell his name) plus you still accomplish a lit of things by playing Warframe 1 hour a day.5 hours a week and I wanna ask does doing something fun for 5 hour a week looks like a second job? Heck I even thing that the new plains of divuri should be in hard mode and super hard only to create kinda of a heigh lvl lobby and let the lower player learn the game.

Warframe's progression should be like a staircase you play to get stuff, use that stuff to climb the ladder when you can't climb anymore,get better stuff and climb higher,repeat until you have reached the end.

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19 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Player were asking for more challenging not better rewards. Or was challenge a reason to tie to rewards?

In theory no one will play a mode with any kind of challenge if there is no extremely great reward at the end of it?

Hard mode is just the same as camping in a mission for a few extra waves or minutes. It's the same exact mission. No one expected better rewards camping in a mission, or did they?

edit: If so, I believe the mode should be called something else, possibly Reward Mode? Next Deluxe Reward Mode in a few months?

Why did DE want Hard Mode in the First place?

Uh...I think people were asking for both harder content and better rewards. Why would anyone want harder content with no rewards for doing it? It just sounds...dumb.

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17 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Imagine fighting lvl 100+ enemies and get the same amount of XP and/or loot from lvl 30 enemies.

Imagine getting Kuva Bramma, the strongest weapon in the game, as early as MR5 cuz "we dont want rewards tied to difficulty or progression"

Imagine actually wanting an endgame.

Imagine not getting burned out on content in 2 days because tougher content with good rewards incentivies people to get better and play more.

DE has been spoonfeeding their community for way too long to the point that endgame turned more of a "frowned upon" thing compared to years before when almost everyone was screaming for it.

Increasing enemy levels means nothing since it only increases their health and damage so eventually you have to make sure they can't even attack you because if they do, you die. Without an actual combat system, there can never be any "challenge" because either they die with one shot or you do. So we end up in the cheesing and exploiting crap again.

The only thing increasing enemies levels does is let people see bigger numbers, which might make idiot children feel good or something. So tell me, why do you want bigger numbers?

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39 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Uh...I think people were asking for both harder content and better rewards. Why would anyone want harder content with no rewards for doing it? It just sounds...dumb.

While I don't mind increased rewards, I don't need hard mode to give anything super exclusive beyond a cosmetic or two. 

I simply want more challenging gameplay overlayed on my regular day to day Warframe grind. 

The increase in resources and affinity would mean nothing to me honestly. I have more than enough resources and can level up gear fast enough as is. 

I don't want hard mode to have a bunch of power creep items behind it, because I don't want this mode to be for everyone to play. 

Players that can't understand this should just avoid hardmode because it's probably NOT going to be "rewarding" enough for you. The rewards is the increased challenge itself. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

Increasing enemy levels means nothing since it only increases their health and damage so eventually you have to make sure they can't even attack you because if they do, you die. Without an actual combat system, there can never be any "challenge" because either they die with one shot or you do. So we end up in the cheesing and exploiting crap again.

The only thing increasing enemies levels does is let people see bigger numbers, which might make idiot children feel good or something. So tell me, why do you want bigger numbers?

Some people will cheese, others will just use their favorite frame. Not everyone finds it fun to cheese content. I don't always use my most powerful setup. 

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Because there's a small vocal group that thinks X amount of time in Mot is somehow the ideal goal for players.

Most players, in fact, couldn't give a S#&$ about that, and only see it as the exact same rewards they'd get from 20 mins.

There's a divide between players who want things that are new and exciting, and players who want the enemy level to be 4 digits, and so adding "hard mode" probably isn't worth the work if it doesn't have decent rewards, or it's only going to pay off with a very small amount of the community actually caring to participate in it 'for the challenge,' while others immediately dismiss it for its lack of reason to play it.

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Without increased rewards there will be no point in adding hardmode. This is a looter game, it all comes down to time, risk and efficiency. If the the content that poses a higher risk and takes longer to clear doesnt reward more loot it wont be as efficient as lower level content, so in the end it wont be used since reward/min will be lower there.

Even if hard and ultra hard mode wont be specifically challenging content because it is just levels, it will still be content that takes more time to clear, so rewards should be balanced based on that. Same as there is a point where you wont bother going longer in endless if you are there for the loot, since the reward/min is lower than if you restart.

We dont need exclusive rewards in a particular way, just better efficiency grinding what we need. Some cosmetics for clearing the charts etc. would be cool. But when it comes to the loot an arbiration of +50 or +100 could have the loot tables adjusted so the rare mods are more common and the sculptures and endo take a backseat while the amount is increased, same for vitus essence. Then the mode itself should just have a passive booster added to it based on which hard mode you run, the same type of booster that's unlocked over time in fissures.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

While I don't mind increased rewards, I don't need hard mode to give anything super exclusive beyond a cosmetic or two. 

I simply want more challenging gameplay overlayed on my regular day to day Warframe grind. 

The increase in resources and affinity would mean nothing to me honestly. I have more than enough resources and can level up gear fast enough as is. 

I don't want hard mode to have a bunch of power creep items behind it, because I don't want this mode to be for everyone to play. 

Players that can't understand this should just avoid hardmode because it's probably NOT going to be "rewarding" enough for you. The rewards is the increased challenge itself. 

I kinda get it? Not entirely because the stuff I play, Wow and such, you get better stuff just for doing the harder content. Now I know its not the same thing, but I figured that would be the reason to do the hard content. For warframe and its hard mode without better rewards, why should we really play it all then other than just because? I must not be seeing it, which for that sorry.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

better rewards

Now, what do you see as better rewards? Because warframe isn't a game with rarity system to make you grind for that legendary 5 star gears with full gem and enhancement to have a chance to kill the boss and get another gear for vertical progression and I'm happy with that because that means I can wreck level 100 with my 4 forma braton because it's not obsolete for level 100

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

why should we really play it all then other than just because?

Because it's optional, for those that need to stroke their epeen on others for many reasons and not making elitism like eidolon where people only accept those with 100+ tridolon capture in the team

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4 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Now, what do you see as better rewards? Because warframe isn't a game with rarity system to make you grind for that legendary 5 star gears with full gem and enhancement to have a chance to kill the boss and get another gear for vertical progression and I'm happy with that because that means I can wreck level 100 with my 4 forma braton because it's not obsolete for level 100

Because it's optional, for those that need to stroke their epeen on others for many reasons and not making elitism like eidolon where people only accept those with 100+ tridolon capture in the team

Okay good point, maybe wow wasn't the best comparison I admit that. I just don't really see a reason then to play Hardmode. I guess its cool we can put our op gear to the test finally, but beyond that, for me personally as I can't speak for eveyone else, theres no reason to play this mode then, plain and simple. Not getting anything for it is lame imo, but yes, I agree that this would be a mode for those who want to stroke their Epeen, nothing more.

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19 hours ago, 844448 said:

It's actually possible with some knowledge and skill and I can say it because I've done it solo on level 5 lich mission before armor change

It's one of my favorite rifles and I agree with you, a bit of knowing how it works and modding correctly and it bangs.

I take my Braton Prime to everything. Got a decent riven, nothing crazy, and it shreds up to a point and then I use it for CO status procs. Most weapons can be made "viable" without having to chase the meta.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)ErydisTheLucario said:

Uh...I think people were asking for both harder content and better rewards. Why would anyone want harder content with no rewards for doing it? It just sounds...dumb.

Well if this is the case, then DE never had to even consider this Hard mode concept. What sounds dumb are players asking for rewards when they were clearly asking for a challenge and not Simulacrum testing. But now you can test weapons outside of Simulacrum mean give me more better loots for it? lol This is a JOKE!

get it give me GIF by Mya

Wasn't the concept of content for reward what broke Eidolon hunts with Scarlett Spear?

If I wanted a reward, it would be some more beach balls.

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