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Why does everyone want better rewards for hard mode?


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On 2020-06-11 at 4:51 PM, Lutesque said:

Can DE make a game that actually tests player skill Without it excluding players simly because they havent got the MR to use Rubico Prime yet ?

I assume that was rethorical.

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Reading through this thread is depressing. Why are so many, afraid of putting in effort while playing a game?

I couldn't care less about the rewards. I'll solo the entire star chart to unlock hard, and again to unlock ultra hard, and even a third time to unlock Insanity level hard if added. No reward required. The increased level is a time saver getting to fun game play, it's the only reward I need.

DE wanting to add rewards for doing so doesn't bother me as it makes sense. I am just shocked by all the people complaining about difficulty, before it even gets here. 

If you are dying to level 50-70 enemies, your build is trash, and, or you are afk.

 

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1 hour ago, Nichivo said:

Reading through this thread is depressing. Why are so many, afraid of putting in effort while playing a game?

I couldn't care less about the rewards. I'll solo the entire star chart to unlock hard, and again to unlock ultra hard, and even a third time to unlock Insanity level hard if added. No reward required. The increased level is a time saver getting to fun game play, it's the only reward I need.

DE wanting to add rewards for doing so doesn't bother me as it makes sense. I am just shocked by all the people complaining about difficulty, before it even gets here. 

If you are dying to level 50-70 enemies, your build is trash, and, or you are afk.

 

This is the exact reason I like doing lichs, instant spike in enemy level,  sure a drop rate increase by doubling the base rate would be appreciated, I just like murderising the Grineer and Corpus

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Tyreal2012 said:

This is the exact reason I like doing lichs, instant spike in enemy level,  sure a drop rate increase by doubling the base rate would be appreciated, I just like murderising the Grineer and Corpus

My current Lich is probable holding more resources than some of the complainers. I am actually dreading the nightwave kill the lich cause it means I will have to get a new one to leave at rank 5 indefinitely.

Edited by Nichivo
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49 minutes ago, (XB1)Tyreal2012 said:

This is the exact reason I like doing lichs, instant spike in enemy level,  sure a drop rate increase by doubling the base rate would be appreciated, I just like murderising the Grineer and Corpus

That's why some ppl (including myself) enjoy Lich conent. Level spike, damage spike, I have to use my weapons and powers efficently and effectively to actually not die (even if I die once it's still nothing but challange is there not to die for me XD).

We get murmurs, requiem relics, sometimes small amount of Kuva for 5-10 mins of High LvL content. Further along the line we get all the things our Lich acquired, stole or his weapons/ephemera. Sure, I would love to get more resources the higher the enemy level, this would be fantastic!

Imagine, we run lvl 100 mission, we get double affinity, double resources chance and drops, double mod drop chance, more elite enemies that spawn (hyenas, bursas, juggs, noxes, manics). End rewards we get radiant relics, cosmetics, bulks of credits, endo, ducats, kuva etc. If O could double, triple my gains for the increased difficulty of the mission and decreased time of  single mission I would be delighted! That's the epithome of challange-risk-reward connection. Higher challange or risk (u can fail) but the reward is worth it ( i.e double resources obtained, radiant relic and 5 red toroids that I don;t have to farm in Orb Vallis). Ofc, I can just do ESO, Orb Vallis or buy myself resource drop booster but what would be the point of my time invested into the game, builds, my skills etc.

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Oh, WF community strikes again. Nobody actually wanted the hard mode, "challenge", any of that garbage. Everybody just wanted further powercreep, to complain how everything is too easy once they burned the content.

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15 hours ago, Countess_Hapmuhr said:

Yes, that's the annoying part. I took a month long break from the game because there was literally nothing to do in it. Now I'm back and I find that the new enemies are just stupid hard at level 50-70 and can take down even my insane Atlas. So yeah, the fact that DE shuffles around stuff and invents new gear checks is getting REAL old now. I don't mind it if there's new and fun gear, but when my old gear becomes obsolete because "hurr durr we decided to make the enemy tolerant to your meta" is just annoying.

Meanwhile, I've been playing other fun games like the Borderlands series and Deep Rock Galactic where progress just means you shoot more stuff. 

My man,How are lvl 50-70 hard and also if your atlas can die easly to lvl 50-70 just get a better build since i am pretty sure almost everyone on this forums can shread lvl 70 without issue and how is lvl 70 a "gear check" since almost every weapons can take a lvl 70 with a cheapo semi beginner build.

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19 hours ago, ILOHARTA said:

@kwlingo "Why does everyone want better rewards for hard mode?"

 

because that's the entire goal of this game... aka "bro' do you even dopamine?"

Congratulations!!! You summed it up in the fewest words. You win this topic.

We look forward to seeing your entry in tomorrows edition of Simple Questions With Obvious Answers

 

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On 2020-06-12 at 2:33 AM, kwlingo said:

Player were asking for more challenging not better rewards. Or was challenge a reason to tie to rewards?

In theory no one will play a mode with any kind of challenge if there is no extremely great reward at the end of it?

Hard mode is just the same as camping in a mission for a few extra waves or minutes. It's the same exact mission. No one expected better rewards camping in a mission, or did they?

edit: If so, I believe the mode should be called something else, possibly Reward Mode? Next Deluxe Reward Mode in a few months?

Why did DE want Hard Mode in the First place?

Here is the video for why we are getting Hard Mode.

https://youtu.be/rzrAL0NsU8M

 

You can link more videos, if you find more references stating that players want more challenge but not reward, then you can keep talking, 

If not, SHADDAP

But as for myself, double anythings are not needed, just need a higher level and higher difficulties which it means more enemies spawn, higher stress situations, so ya. 

Edited by Aoennor
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20 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Right. It's like Americans asking for a stimulus check because they don't want to work odd jobs. Lol  Give me good rewards or I won't play it. DE doesn't care if they play any content aka Fighter Frames. Either you do or you don't. I saw a video a guy player Fighter frame for 12hours live stream. Lol but atleast he had fun.

So he had fun and that is only secondary to getting rewards to you? Huh. No wonder no one will ever be satisfied.

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Real players of the game not just warframe, but games in general want there to be rewards, generally something to allow them to have better progression and thus hit higher heights, or new stuff to mess with. There have been a few but vocal players that keep asking for challenges, those players are well known to be fickle and not easily pleased. Dragon Keys were put in long ago to appeal to those players, a self imposed weakening of the player; these are not used by that part of the community though, but instead by the ones seeking rewards running the pretty darn grindy Corrupted Vaults for their mods. Pushing back content updates DE recently put work into the Arbitrations, Onslaught/Elite Onslaught; but this was considered boring since arbitration allows a small amount of team work due to popular demand versus the original launch penalizing teams; and Onslaught/Elite Onslaught has a developer pushed meta which those players latch onto like someone drowning. I think in the last thread we had like this, the response by someone claiming to not want rewards was "why do that when I got the rewards already"? Nothing wrong with wanting rewards for doing something annoying, that is more than just human nature but healthy life in general - even those without brains as you and I judge such - but perhaps its better to realize that beforehand.

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20 hours ago, Follordark said:

Soo you don't want better rewards with higher difficulty on the pretext that it is like getting a second job, gotcha

but YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAY WARFRAME LIKE A SECOND JOB, YOU CAN BE FINE BY PLAYING 1-1,5 HOURS A DAY 5 HOURS A WEEK.I am sure that you can find 5 hour of free time in your week right? or you wont be wasting time and posting here. Also, the entire purpose of better rewards for killing harder enemies is TO MAKE YOUR LIFE AS A CASUAL EASIER by making you FARM LESS for the SAME THING. 

example as follows lets say you get 2000 plastids by farming 30 min on Uranus with lvl 25 mobs,BUt in hardmode  with increased drop chance and with lvl 75 mobs that does not make much difference in terms of kill -speed if you use good guns you can get 2000 plastids in 15 min. what sounds better to you? I am really curious to know.

That isnt at all what I'm saying. Maybe you should get it all in context.

What I'm saying is we need rewards since us normal players arent trying to cash in on the game as a pseudo-job like the content creators that only really care about views. The rest of us actually play the game because we enjoy playing it. We dont need a real life dangling carrot, we need in-game carrots i.e rewards that match the content.

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Harders stuff must have better reward or nobody in right mind will play it. I would add kuva, credit and endo rewards for it because those are resources that are universally useful no matter what. Maybe Orokin cells too. Maybe riven slivers too.

Adding stuff like more resources is pointless because i could make moons out of my stocks of raw materials i have and i never found myself lacking things like plastids or scrap when i started out anyway, its not like you have much stuff to spend it on anyway right ?. Some starting weapons maybe but they aint expensive, like Karak costs 400 alloy, 900 polymer and 100 polymer bundles. Thats less than a pocket change and starting players wont be the one doing hard mode anyway..

 

 

 

 

 

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Because most players are still tied to the mission rewards as their main source of income (for anything really)

Alerts used to have things such as credit rewards or single rare resources as the reward for completing the mission, with the rush mentality it meant they spended sometimes 2 to 3 minutes running and get a single resource for that "effort", which is why many players complained about it.

Higher difficulty is an excuse to rush content and get better rewards because that's all they care, the cherry on top is their goal, not the actual mission, they just want a bigger cherry.

There is an issue, the farmers, the ones that will squeeze most out of the missions. Past lvl 30, enemies will come in huge waves, this means areas that were locked behind very unique sorties, arbitrations will become available to everyone.

Viver (high level corpus ship interception against corpus) is currently only available as low and mid level variants, but will soon break and be turned into loot caves with hard mode.
I also remember DE nerfing an earth jungle interception, for 2 reasons, the farm and the difficulty it had, newer players either got way more resources DE expected or they would face a fail, given the vast ammounts of enemies in that area far exceeded what they were used to, the interception is now easier.

With hard mode, farmers will return to that are for sure, same for mars desert areas and jupiter gas stations.

The enemy lvl is obviously high so that it's still hard to farm effectively, so atleast that DE wasn't completely clueless, but there are players that will push the missions to a point DE will have to do something, remember, some players don't care about the final reward, it often sucks, it's the mission that gives the most.

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19 hours ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

I'm beyond shocked to see that people don't know that higher difficulty=higher rewards

Have you ever played video games before?

I guess some people don't want to put effort into the game and thus are jealous of seeing other people that do put effort in, to get more or better rewards. Otherwise i for the life of me, can't wrap my head around the "Just sweat harder and get not rewarded for it!" logic.

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Looks like OP was trying to express some opinion but had trouble with that. Regardless of whatever that was, common sense dictates better rewards for more effort. If you don't believe, check how many people stay in endless missions past 1-2 C rotations.

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2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Congratulations!!! You summed it up in the fewest words. You win this topic.

We look forward to seeing your entry in tomorrows edition of Simple Questions With Obvious Answers

 

tankyou.jpg

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On 2020-06-11 at 11:33 AM, kwlingo said:

Player were asking for more challenging not better rewards. Or was challenge a reason to tie to rewards?

In theory no one will play a mode with any kind of challenge if there is no extremely great reward at the end of it?

Hard mode is just the same as camping in a mission for a few extra waves or minutes. It's the same exact mission. No one expected better rewards camping in a mission, or did they?

The two don't actually align unless the player chooses to conflate difficulty increases attached to progression with difficulty increase merely for the sake of increased difficulty.

That said, Most of us knew this was going to become the next request after Hard Mode regardless.

Think of it this way... It doesn't matter if Hard Mode has better rewards or not; The community is divided on the subject of difficulty already so adding it (rewards or not) isn't bad.

All adding an incentive for Hard Mode is going to do is:

  • Highlight game balance issues.
  • Get cheesed via a new Meta.
  • Get ignored by many once people got what they wanted from it. 
  • Trivialize the regular game even further with the new items and Meta.

...All of which was going to happen eventually regardless through power creep and game progression anyway.

 

For my part, I want to know what DE is working on that Ms. Ford/DE gets center tile for the PS5 unveil Dev splash... I have a hard time imagining that Developers not working on new titles,IP's, major expansions would get featured in that splash and wonder what this could potentially mean. 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Follordark said:

My man,How are lvl 50-70 hard and also if your atlas can die easly to lvl 50-70 just get a better build since i am pretty sure almost everyone on this forums can shread lvl 70 without issue and how is lvl 70 a "gear check" since almost every weapons can take a lvl 70 with a cheapo semi beginner build.

True at the current way the game is, enemies don't even have any difficultly till above level 250. Even then they are still easy AI and if camping in allowed even content at level 10k is easy. All it requires are tricks and tips.

For some odd reason when players go to Max level they don't even expect any rewards... 🤷‍♂️

Edited by kwlingo
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7 hours ago, kwlingo said:

True at the current way the game is, enemies don't even have any difficultly till above level 250. Even then they are still easy AI and if camping in allowed even content at level 10k is easy. All it requires are tricks and tips.

For some odd reason when players go to Max level they don't even expect any rewards... 🤷‍♂️

Fair enough, I wouldn't mind to know what you figure is a stable respectable build for standard warframes and weapons at lvl 250. Tricks and behavior DE sometimes decides is exploits after the fact could be avoided if you don't mind - for these examples anyway.

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What is taking so long for this hard mode update? Just give us rank points who cares send it out. If you let us do an extra relic open per difficulty rank that would be great.

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4 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

What is taking so long for this hard mode update? Just give us rank points who cares send it out. If you let us do an extra relic open per difficulty rank that would be great.

Dude, they just released new content and hard mode was only floated as an idea recently. Unless they have given a date, it won't be for awhile.

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15 hours ago, Aoennor said:

You can link more videos, if you find more references stating that players want more challenge but not reward, then you can keep talking, 

If not, SHADDAP

But as for myself, double anythings are not needed, just need a higher level and higher difficulties which it means more enemies spawn, higher stress situations, so ya. 

https://youtu.be/-gPw5YTxxy8

https://youtu.be/reqP3D0RRPM

https://youtu.be/FC5IbiDiOgc

16:10 Sorry I couldn't watch the entire 2 hour talk. but there are many video online stating that adding better mods defeats the purpose of challenge. No one will be happy with beach balls as a reward like me. 🙂

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2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Dude, they just released new content and hard mode was only floated as an idea recently. Unless they have given a date, it won't be for awhile.

I know I know, but I’ve been wanting this forever and they said they could do it in like a week. 😞 

 

at lest at 1st....

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