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Why does everyone want better rewards for hard mode?


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About the OP : with ennemy lvl+50 I just want XP / credits / endo / %relics rewards to be consistent with actual T3/T4 (except for relic type, as we need Lith, Meso, Neo and Axi to get prime frames/weapons), and perhaps a +25% bonus for +100 (i.e. the bonus you get after 4 waves in endless fissures)

i.e. I want to have the choice in the missions I play when I just want to chill and just get some standard stuff, and not end-up playing the same missions over and over again avoiding T1 and T2 except to cheese nightwave "challenges"

 

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I was just curious about the subject of this topic but it seems that this is just a meeting between a lot of greedy robots lacking normal human emotions, debating about loots they don’t need over a game mode that’s not for them and asking existential questions as: “what is love and how can someone possibly have fun doing what they love”.

What are you all doing on my Forum ? Can’t you all just use tinder, get a relationship and learn what passion is and what love means instead of trying to ruin the upcoming Hard mode shortcut for the people that asked for it before all of you ?

Damn, what is wrong with these youngsters these days..

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I thought the game people complaining about the game being too easy and advocating more difficult mods simply want more of a challenege not an additional reward, at least that's what I have seen in the multiple WF is too easy threads.

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We indeed just asked for more challenge without additional rewards and thats what is planned right now.

People are spoiled and rewarded well enough everywhere and frames are already overpowered as they are now. Adding more will just give to eternally unsatisfied players more things to complain about, wich is their favorite pass time (even more important than playing the actual game) or making unprepared players feel like they are forced to play Ultra Mode as they hit a big wall before coming back here asking to nerf something because it's inaccessible for them. And while they dont even know what they want themselves, we do, so it's easy to make a choice.

Plus, if greedy players find it not worth it like the Hard Mode that we already have, we will have matchmaking and squads regrouping only players that really love Warframe wich means more chill and pleasant missions and less game experience ruined.  

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Sven_Lazar:

I was just curious about the subject of this topic but it seems that this is just a meeting between a lot of greedy robots lacking normal human emotions, debating about loots they don’t need over a game mode that’s not for them and asking existential questions as: “what is love and how can someone possibly have fun doing what they love”.

What are you all doing on my Forum ? Can’t you all just use tinder, get a relationship and learn what passion is and what love means instead of trying to ruin the upcoming Hard mode shortcut for the people that asked for it before all of you ?

Damn, what is wrong with these youngsters these days..

It's not your forum. If you're this entitled and arrogant in game as well, I can see why none of your games are chill and pleasant.

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1 hour ago, Sven_Lazar said:

We indeed just asked for more challenge without additional rewards and thats what is planned right now.

People are spoiled and rewarded well enough

Why are you even complaining about getting more resources and rewards, if something is harder you expect to be rewarded better for doing the hard challenge that's how everything ever works.

If you're in it for the difficulty then do it for that and other people that want more rewards do it for the loot, you're offended that people want to do hard mode for rewards? just play your game don't bother with other people's goals

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On 2020-06-11 at 2:33 PM, kwlingo said:

Player were asking for more challenging not better rewards. Or was challenge a reason to tie to rewards?

In theory no one will play a mode with any kind of challenge if there is no extremely great reward at the end of it?

Hard mode is just the same as camping in a mission for a few extra waves or minutes. It's the same exact mission. No one expected better rewards camping in a mission, or did they?

edit: If so, I believe the mode should be called something else, possibly Reward Mode? Next Deluxe Reward Mode in a few months?

Why did DE want Hard Mode in the First place?

Here is the video for why we are getting Hard Mode.

https://youtu.be/rzrAL0NsU8M

 

What people really want is a mode with bigger numbers that they know they can make totally irrelevant with broken builds so they can justify better rewards (which often in their minds means better guns and mods, not more nano spores.) 

If they REALLY wanted hard mode, DE would have to nearly remove every form of energy generation except blue orb drops and make LoS a requirement for abilities to work.  These two changes alone would ramp up the difficulty of the game for a lot of people.

Edited by Lost_Cartographer
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1 minute ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

If they REALLY wanted hard mode, DE would have to nearly remove every form of energy generation except blue orb drops and make LoS a requirement for abilities to work.  These two changes alone would ramp up the difficulty of the game for a lot of people.

It is kind of telling how far we've fallen when having to aim is considered a jump in difficulty.

I swear most Mario games are more demanding of skill than most of current Warframe these days.

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4 hours ago, Sven_Lazar said:

I was just curious about the subject of this topic but it seems that this is just a meeting between a lot of greedy robots lacking normal human emotions, debating about loots they don’t need over a game mode that’s not for them and asking existential questions as: “what is love and how can someone possibly have fun doing what they love”.

What are you all doing on my Forum ? Can’t you all just use tinder, get a relationship and learn what passion is and what love means instead of trying to ruin the upcoming Hard mode shortcut for the people that asked for it before all of you ?

Damn, what is wrong with these youngsters these days..

OK BOOMER

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It's logical to reward high risk more in hard mode.

You can already have challenge without extra rewards if you cripple yourself with unmodded frames, weapons and dragon keys.

Edited by sitfesz
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8 hours ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

I thought the game people complaining about the game being too easy and advocating more difficult mods simply want more of a challenege not an additional reward, at least that's what I have seen in the multiple WF is too easy threads.

Yes the moment they start adding God like mods, it break the point of Hard Mode. We have enough things that make us unkillable already.

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7 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Yes the moment they start adding God like mods, it break the point of Hard Mode. We have enough things that make us unkillable already.

That isnt the type of mods people want. When people talk about adding mods to hard mode they mean mutators/prefixes/affixes/sufixes for the missions/mobs, not actual mod rewards for our loadout. What most people want from hard mode are the same type of rewards as normal mode, but in larger quantities due to the obviously higher difficulty. The only exclusive reward people want seem to be of vanity type, to show that they've completed X mission in hard/ultra mode.

So mod rewards in hard mode would only be introduced when a base mode has the mod introduced as a new reward, hard mode would just make it quicker to get if you can handle the higher level mobs while grinding for it.

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I feel like people that just want more resources and less grind for less work are getting ready to complain that they aren't rewarded enough for hard mode. I see it already. 

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9 hours ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

I thought the game people complaining about the game being too easy and advocating more difficult mods simply want more of a challenege not an additional reward, at least that's what I have seen in the multiple WF is too easy threads.

That one in a million guy just wants challenge, the rest? more stuff, challenge just makes them feel good about themselves, you know "i did it and you won't ever get this stuff git gud scrub"

What DE should do is make the reward be a weapon/warframe that lets you oneshot the entire map and then you get the mission complete screen. After a while they come to whine for more "challenge" and then DE can make a weapon/warframe as a reward to erase the entire universe, The end, you won. Then they can all quit because the game is over. This illustrates the reason it's stupid. After all, if it isn't better, what is the point, right?

You don't NEED any rewards if it's fun, because it's fun. So, how many of you actually find warframe fun?

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Yggranya:

That one in a million guy just wants challenge, the rest? more stuff, challenge just makes them feel good about themselves, you know "i did it and you won't ever get this stuff git gud scrub"

What DE should do is make the reward be a weapon/warframe that lets you oneshot the entire map and then you get the mission complete screen. After a while they come to whine for more "challenge" and then DE can make a weapon/warframe as a reward to erase the entire universe, The end, you won. Then they can all quit because the game is over. This illustrates the reason it's stupid. After all, if it isn't better, what is the point, right?

You don't NEED any rewards if it's fun, because it's fun. So, how many of you actually find warframe fun?

Look up what a strawman argument is. No one here is asking for more power creep. No one here is asking for the reward to be more powerful weapons. No one is even asking for the reward to be any weapon. No one is even asking for anything exclusive. If you don't have a response to what people are actually saying, maybe you should walk away and think about why that is instead of posting responses to asinine made-up pseudo-arguments.

Edited by Krankbert
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On 2020-06-14 at 3:00 PM, sitfesz said:

It's logical to reward high risk more in hard mode.

FYI, Hard Mode always existed, the upcoming Hard and Ultra mode as Pablo said, are just "shortcut" to access it faster for players that dont have time anymore or dont want to waste time with low level ennemies before accessing it. And unlike the others, we continued while never complaining about rewards being the same. So what is logical is that rewards stay the same, we only asked the shortcut and the matchmaking.

Quote

You can already have challenge without extra rewards if you cripple yourself with unmodded frames, weapons and dragon keys.

That's what we've been doing since more than 6 years without you knowing it. Again, upcoming Hard mode isnt a new game mode to satisfy your greediness.  

Like I said before, We already have enough unkillable frames and invincibility, cheesy mods in the game to survive or make farming easier too. Time to stop asking more and learn how to build if you can't survive high level content. 

On 2020-06-14 at 7:24 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

I feel like people that just want more resources and less grind for less work are getting ready to complain that they aren't rewarded enough for hard mode. I see it already. 

Isn't this topic already the proof of it ? 😁

On 2020-06-14 at 8:07 PM, (PS4)Yggranya said:

That one in a million guy just wants challenge, the rest? more stuff, challenge just makes them feel good about themselves, you know "i did it and you won't ever get this stuff git gud scrub"

Yeah, like these filthy and arrogant Founders 😄 They should get banned of the game, they just prevent the other players to have fun ! 😛 

Quote

 

What DE should do is make the reward be a weapon/warframe that lets you oneshot the entire map and then you get the mission complete screen. After a while they come to whine for more "challenge" and then DE can make a weapon/warframe as a reward to erase the entire universe, The end, you won. Then they can all quit because the game is over. This illustrates the reason it's stupid. After all, if it isn't better, what is the point, right?

 

Isnt there already a weapon like that ? Something by the name of... Bramma something I think ? :3

Apparently, the problem here seems that players have a hard time imagining that a lot of people actually have fun sweating and making efforts trying to pass big walls. The type of people that dont wait for a youtuber to make a video to know if something is good and that dont copy-paste all their build from warframe builder to then show off how good and fast they kill ennemies with a build that they did nothing to earn it. Some players actually use the knowledge they earned playing the game over the years.

Not trying to offend here (And I know how easy people are to be offended nowadays), it's ok to look for shortcuts in an entertainment game like Warframe where people had to play years to get knowledge they have, you dont have to work hard if you dont want to, just saying that people have to stop being arrogant with knowledge they have secretely taken somewhere else to avoid making efforts or get to a point faster than they should have, acting like they earned eveything they have and complain later about a difficulty that already exist but that they decided to ignoreand didnt complained about until now.

On 2020-06-14 at 8:11 PM, Krankbert said:

Look up what a strawman argument is. No one here is asking for more power creep. No one here is asking for the reward to be more powerful weapons. No one is even asking for the reward to be any weapon. No one is even asking for anything exclusive. If you don't have a response to what people are actually saying, maybe you should walk away and think about why that is instead of posting responses to asinine made-up pseudo-arguments.

You actually may want to read the topic again. I even saw someone wishing for Excalibur prime 😛 and even if it looks like a joke, no one can deny they would be finally happy if that's the case. Even if the majority in this topic avoided specifying what they want as a reward, none of them will refuse it and even use it first if DE make the mistake to add others "shortcut to high level" new weapons. If you deny this, it will be either hypocrisy or being naive. 

Upcoming Hard Modes wont be new content, it's just the actual star system but with faster access to high level ennemies. So again, no reason for new rewards nor cosmetics. We already have an near infinite source for upcoming, new cosmetics and it's called Nighwaves. Now people, let the other part of the community have their own thing.  

And please, dont be toxic, you can debate but saying to someone that have a different view on the matter to go away is not tolerated, a forum is to debate and talk, thank you.

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On 2020-06-14 at 10:11 PM, Krankbert said:

Look up what a strawman argument is. No one here is asking for more power creep. No one here is asking for the reward to be more powerful weapons. No one is even asking for the reward to be any weapon. No one is even asking for anything exclusive. If you don't have a response to what people are actually saying, maybe you should walk away and think about why that is instead of posting responses to asinine made-up pseudo-arguments.

Of course no one is going to say it straight but, well... It is what it is. Everyone says they want "rewards" but no one ever specifys what they are, do you honestly think DE can give anything else but more weapons? If it's not OP, no one cares, if it is, then everyone wants it. If it's some random cosmetics, someone somewhere might do it, until they get it but it's still dead on arrival.

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il y a 4 minutes, (PS4)Yggranya a dit :

If it's not OP, no one cares, if it is, then everyone wants it. If it's some random cosmetics, someone somewhere might do it, until they get it but it's still dead on arrival.

And if there is Codex to scan, I'm going there ! ... Hello ? Anyone here ? *swooooooosh*

Edited by dwqrf
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

Of course no one is going to say it straight but, well... It is what it is. Everyone says they want "rewards" but no one ever specifys what they are, do you honestly think DE can give anything else but more weapons? If it's not OP, no one cares, if it is, then everyone wants it. If it's some random cosmetics, someone somewhere might do it, until they get it but it's still dead on arrival.

Most just want a more efficient way of obtaining valueble resources while facing a slightly higher challenge aswell. Like how bounties work in D3. T1 gives far less than T13 (or whatever the max torment is now) which means running the higher difficulty is more efficient when you can handle it.

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Tbh, i don't understand this whole HardMode-thing anyway.

Just introduce a mission-type with a condition like "all mods disabled & inner kiddo not available & no e-pads...".

Like this special mission on Europa, called "Icefields of Riddah" (defense).

Voila -> HardMode :)

 

Edited by Gebuesch
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31 minutes ago, Gebuesch said:

Tbh, i don't understand this whole HardMode-thing anyway.

Just introduce a mission-type with a condition like "all mods disabled & inner kiddo not available & no e-pads...".

Like this special mission on Europa, called "Icefields of Riddah" (defense).

Voila -> HardMode 🙂

Gimping people is not the solution. What people are looking for is content where their obtained gear and builds can be useful and tested. Downgrading is the laziest of the lazy solutions and will pin people into a select few frames, just like the Grendel missions did. They were fun for the purpose they served, but doing them over and over again not so much since there is zero theorycrafting or builds tied to it.

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On 2020-06-17 at 4:57 PM, Gebuesch said:

Tbh, i don't understand this whole HardMode-thing anyway.

No one ever asked you to understand to be honest. No offense, just saying that you clearly are not part of the ones that asked for it and upcoming Hard Mode didnt came out of nowhere, we asked for it years (wayyyyy) ago. Please next time, just read the whole topic or even the up page to prevent repeating the same questions over and over again and restart the debate when it was already explained. You would have understand everything if you did since I explained everything in one post...

Not reading before just means that some of you dont really care about this but just wanted to feel like a genius that got the solution to a "problem" that's not one to get a grand applause (must admit it was a nice try tho ;D ). Guys, if you dont care about this whole Hardmode-thingy (ewww gross), just keep playing like you do now, I dont see any reason why someone would want to prevent this upgrade to come out since it wont change a thing for you but a lot to other concerned people. :clem:

On 2020-06-17 at 4:57 PM, Gebuesch said:

Just introduce a mission-type with a condition like "all mods disabled & inner kiddo not available & no e-pads...".

Like this special mission on Europa, called "Icefields of Riddah" (defense).

So basically you just posted to suggest something while knowing that we already have it and that we can already do it when we want ? 🤙 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sven_Lazar said:

Guys, if you dont care about this whole Hardmode-thingy (ewww gross), just keep playing like you do now, I dont see any reason why someone would want to prevent this upgrade to come out since it wont change a thing for you but a lot to other concerned people.

Things that change the game like this have a very real possibility to change other aspects of the game, even if only at the 'meta' level, and therefore impact the whole playerbase. Looking at any changes to the game with this kind of myopic view is not the right thing to do, IMO.

If there are, in fact, 'subjectively, numerically better, new' mods or other things that get added as rewards, then it really impacts the playerbase as a whole as well.

Right now, it just 'sounds like' a +50/100 level bump and little to nothing more, but until it's implemented we just won't know.

Even the use case of 'everyone wanting to run the new hard modes' impacts the community, so what, exactly, the modes are going to offer matters to the whole playerbase, not just those wanting more challenge.

Since there is no clear line between the numbers of people that just want challenge and those that also want better rewards for that supposed challenge, this is a completely circular argument that, IMO, has very little meaning until the mode actually gets implemented, because until then it's all just hand-wringing hyperbole about 'what might be'.

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Risk more, win more. 

Risk less, win less. 

 

Reward big when talent and perseverance is required

Reward moderate when talent is moderate. 

Reward low when talent is optional 

 

Shall we change this universal logic? Shall we even dare to question it in the first place? 

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Did they even say what type of rewards will be on?, cuz unless it's something like Umbra Forma or way more XP (XP Farm), then it will be useless

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
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